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View Full Version : Extended/Full Range vs Tweeter



whitedragon551
12-19-2011, 05:39 PM
Let me preface this with I dont want to do any customization to my pillars or door panels other than your standard CCF and deadener treatments. I will be getting rid of this car soon and it will become my wife's daily driver. Due to this fact I want to keep the interior as stock as possible so I can swap everything over to my car once the near year rolls around.

This brings me to my predicament. I have 6 channels on my Audio System Twister F6. I have active capabilities with my Alpine CDA-9887. Also have TrueRTA along with the Imprint for measurement purposes. The tweeters I have are Morel made Xtant 28mm tweeters and Eclipse SC6500 mids.

As of right now Im only using channels 5/6 on my sub at 2 ohms bridged on my TC based Audiomobile Evo.

I want to run a 2 way active front stage. Its all I have channels for and I dont have room to expand for amp placement.

Option 1: Tweeter and Midbass
Option 2: Extended/Full Range and Midbass

When it comes to extended/full range vs tweeters would I be ok going active with a solid full range such as the Aura 3" bambo and my midbass? Or is it better to run a tweeter and midbass? What are the pros and cons of each scenario?

wenn_du_weinst
12-19-2011, 05:43 PM
depends, most fullrange drivers don't have the crisp twinkle sound tweeters will have. That's why you usually see Ht full range horns with super tweeters sitting on top. If you don't like bright highs you will be fine with full range, if you like bright highs you will want to use tweeters. You will be fine freq range with either if you use the right drivers but the tweeter usually sounds brighter while the fr is more smooth sounding.

wenn_du_weinst
12-19-2011, 05:46 PM
oh and the best thing about running fullranges is being able to cross them lower raising your sound stage and making sure your not letting your mids distort the higher notes.

whitedragon551
12-19-2011, 06:53 PM
Dont like harsh tweeters. Just want things to blend well. What types of extended/full range speakers should I look at and what locations should I consider? I was thinking the 3" Aura bambo speakers or some Tang Bands. They have a nice selection of 2-3" drivers on PE. I think 4" drivers will be a little to big.

I was considering the following:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-828

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-805

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-844

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-380

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-815

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-910

wenn_du_weinst
12-19-2011, 06:59 PM
where are they mounted?

whitedragon551
12-19-2011, 07:00 PM
where are they mounted?

I want to keep things as stock as possible so most likely just above the mid in the door.

wenn_du_weinst
12-19-2011, 07:08 PM
Dayton Audio RS75-4 3" Reference Full-Range Driver 4 Ohm 295-380 (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-380)
Markaudio Alpair-6M Gold 3.5" Fullrange Gen 2: Madisound Speaker Store (http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-3-fullrange/markaudio-alpair-6m-gold-3.5-fullrange-gen-2/)
either one of those are what I'd use.

Micksh
12-19-2011, 07:28 PM
I am interested in experimenting with extended-range drivers also. From so many of the (seemingly hundreds...lol) of posts I've read, people seem to love the Tang Band W3-1364SA bamboo cone drivers, along with some Fostex drivers too. (and of course the higher-end ones from Hybrid Audio and Audible Physics, which unfortunately are a little out of my price range)

From everything I read, wenn_du_weinst is correct that the main thing is whether you like that "sizzle" at the top end or not....I tend to like that myself, as I have some Vifa ring radiators that I LOVE. I just may have to try the Tang Bands though...

thehardknoxlife
12-19-2011, 08:22 PM
I'd opt for the Dayton RS100. It's actually closer to a 3" driver and it plays very low for it's size. I think mine are crossed at 250hz on up, it is a teensy bit rugged on the top side but some nifty eq skill will clear that right up. Just don't be too aggressive with them crossed so low. Love 'em. Hard to beat for the price. After being tweeter less for so long I'll never go back. The sound stage is much less localized. If you prefer a brighter top end, look into the Fountek FR88. Although it's a almost twice as much as the Dayton last time I checked. It's not as good as the Dayton on the low side but worlds better everywhere else, like most full range drivers it will need to be eq'd on the top side. One of the better full range drivers I've used. A really cheap fix would be the Hi-Vi B3S, for under $15 a woofer they sound great.

P.S. You still owe me $100 from the bet you lost on TUF results.

Why So Cereal?
12-19-2011, 08:48 PM
I Run the tangband w4 1320sj in my 3 way front. If theyre off axis in your doors, you're gonna need tweeters. Even with alot of eq up top i still wasnt able to get good highs without tweeters
On axis, they do pretty well. But beaming kills the highs off axis. Since you're not doing custom pillars, stick with tweeters. They do very well as extended midrange though.

Why So Cereal?
12-19-2011, 09:01 PM
Plus your sound becomes more directional since the passenger side driver is more on axis so any highs you can hear from them will be coming from your right and directly from that speaker. This is all from personal experience. Nothing I read online.

keep_hope_alive
12-20-2011, 12:59 AM
I have been experimenting with full range drivers in my Accord the past few months. 9887 with xtant amps and even an Alpine DRE-A200 active crossovers.

I tried them in 3 locations. Dash facing up reflecting off glass, a-pillar off axis. A-pillar on axis. I tried a selection of drivers from Parts Express and Madisound. 2-3" in size.

Off axis doesn't give enough high frequency information. The sound is smooth and pleasant but the drivers need to be on axis. Height is crucial. I was curious if having them off axis would help with IID but you lose too much detail.

I used a variety of crossover points down to 200Hz. I tried 2-way with door or kick woofers, and 3-way with door woofers and kick midrange. My focus was sound stage and frequency response.

I think off axis with speakers that maintain high frequency response at 60deg could be worth trying. Door locations would probably be too low.

whitedragon551
12-20-2011, 05:49 PM
I Run the tangband w4 1320sj in my 3 way front. If theyre off axis in your doors, you're gonna need tweeters. Even with alot of eq up top i still wasnt able to get good highs without tweeters
On axis, they do pretty well. But beaming kills the highs off axis. Since you're not doing custom pillars, stick with tweeters. They do very well as extended midrange though.

My EQ and Time alignment is far superior to what you have with your Pioneer.


I have been experimenting with full range drivers in my Accord the past few months. 9887 with xtant amps and even an Alpine DRE-A200 active crossovers.

I tried them in 3 locations. Dash facing up reflecting off glass, a-pillar off axis. A-pillar on axis. I tried a selection of drivers from Parts Express and Madisound. 2-3" in size.

Off axis doesn't give enough high frequency information. The sound is smooth and pleasant but the drivers need to be on axis. Height is crucial. I was curious if having them off axis would help with IID but you lose too much detail.

I used a variety of crossover points down to 200Hz. I tried 2-way with door or kick woofers, and 3-way with door woofers and kick midrange. My focus was sound stage and frequency response.

I think off axis with speakers that maintain high frequency response at 60deg could be worth trying. Door locations would probably be too low.

They will be off axis for sure. Which drivers did you have the best success with from the 2-3" drivers you used?

Why So Cereal?
12-20-2011, 09:31 PM
My EQ and Time alignment is far superior to what you have with your Pioneer.



at the high frequencies in question, t/a wont help. I doubt your "superior" EQ will either, off-axis, youre simply not going to pick up the high frequencies like you would with actual tweeters. I'm all for trying new things, but just like you were always there to tell me the stupid factors of my ideas, I'm here for you too :)

the only way it's gonna work is having those drivers on axis, other wise, beaming will knock all of your highs right out. your EQ and T/A cant put something there thats not there to begin with.

whitedragon551
12-20-2011, 09:37 PM
at the high frequencies in question, t/a wont help. I doubt your "superior" EQ will either, off-axis, youre simply not going to pick up the high frequencies like you would with actual tweeters. I'm all for trying new things, but just like you were always there to tell me the stupid factors of my ideas, I'm here for you too :)

the only way it's gonna work is having those drivers on axis, other wise, beaming will knock all of your highs right out. your EQ and T/A cant put something there thats not there to begin with.

Never was going to use EQ to put something there that wasnt. There is a reason you cut instead of boost.

Why So Cereal?
12-20-2011, 09:59 PM
That will mean cutting the passenger side highs by so much, you may as well have no highs. Not to mention severely screwing up any kind of soundstage for a passenger seat rider.

Jroo
12-21-2011, 12:47 PM
What I did was go to a bunch of high end home audio stores in my area and listen to full range book shelf speakers and pods. They give you a great idea of what the best case scenario would be because the are pointed directly at the listener. Many sound good, but just miss something on the very top end. When you would A/B with a traditional mid and tweeter you could hear the top end missing. It was almost like they had a dullness or ran out of steam. I would image this would get worse in a car, which is why I went to the store to hear fullrangers. To be honest, your most high end computer speakers are generally a fullrange of some type. Even the best ones just sorta miss something to me. The biggest advantage to a full range is there is no cut in the middle of vocal range and you have point source. Basically one driver can run from 500hz to 10k without a mids, tweeters, and xover points cutting into or messing up that range. You'll see many run a "supertweeter" or something that picks up from 8k to 10k up. I think the sound only become worse or more dull on the top end the further off axis your driver is. After listening I woudnt want the sound at all without a tweeter up high. For me, when a cymbal crashes i want to hear it crash not just kinda say I think I heard a cymbal. Ive been holding on to an Infinity ribbon tweeter that likes 10k up. I think a fullrange is the only real way to finally use my Infinity set because most true mids I see cant run up that high.

VWBobby
12-24-2011, 09:40 AM
Some of the best HT designs use a woofer that can go from about 20hz to 5000hz and then a tweeter to blend from ~5000hz on up. They don't use a crossover so there are no losses and the speaker's natural roll off are the crossover points. :) Oh, and I'm pretty sure phasing isn't an issue with this type of design.

okiedokie
12-26-2011, 02:12 AM
hey whitedragon551

Have you ever thought about the founteks?.
I put a pair in my boyfriends trunk off axis low in his doors.
Yes they have a nice top end off axis.

Those Tang band fullrange need to be on axis.'
Im using mark audio 4inch widerange speakers which they do have a really nice top end on axis or off axis.
if you can fit mark audio mids in,then you can cross them down low.
any where from & up, they have a big x-max.

If you need more top end, then you can add a small tweeter & cap.

whitedragon551
12-26-2011, 06:02 AM
I am. I may be grabbing a set of H-Audio/Audible Physics AP3's. Same thing as the Fountek FR88ex except the cone material is a little more rigid.

Why So Cereal?
12-26-2011, 02:14 PM
Tweeter and cap idea x2

keep_hope_alive
12-27-2011, 02:28 AM
I agree you'll want a tweeter in addition to the off axis full range, it was hard to pick a favorite driver in my tests because the airspace wasn't finalized for any of the drivers, nor really ideal. My concern was high frequency reproduction and adequate output level. Both were let downs in the positions I wanted. All of the drivers tested were less than $35 each. With a larger budget I know I can feta better driver to use and maybe gain better HF response.

I run 2" full range in the wife's Camry, in stock locations - dash corners. The positions offer the best high frequency response of the off axis positions I tried, but the soundstage isn't well focused for my liking, the rest of the locations are Eclipse point source drivers without the tweeters ran. She is happy with it and some basic T/A through the 9833.

whitedragon551
12-27-2011, 02:32 PM
Ive read alot of people get great results with tweeterless setups compared to tweeter setups.

What Im thinking is modifying this idea here:

Cheap, adjustable, easily replaceable tweeter pods - DIYMA.com - Scientific Car Audio - Truth in Sound Quality (http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/how-articles-provided-our-members/53732-cheap-adjustable-easily-replaceable-tweeter-pods.html)

And mount my full range up high in the corners of the dash board aimed at the center point between both front seats.

Why So Cereal?
12-27-2011, 02:37 PM
Now, that, sounds smexy. You wont have to be concerned with typical mid to tweet phase shift in the vocal range either.

keep_hope_alive
12-28-2011, 01:56 AM
that sphere idea fails when you don't have adequate airspace to play as low as you want. small full range is doable if you are on-axis and don't want a lot of volume.

airspace is crucial for midrange, as is the cavity. the last thing you want is a speaker in the middle of a sphere - backwave reflections should be directed away from the cone - not focused on it. :)

whitedragon551
12-28-2011, 08:28 AM
that sphere idea fails when you don't have adequate airspace to play as low as you want. small full range is doable if you are on-axis and don't want a lot of volume.

airspace is crucial for midrange, as is the cavity. the last thing you want is a speaker in the middle of a sphere - backwave reflections should be directed away from the cone - not focused on it. :)

Wouldnt polyfill help correct some of the backwave issues or lining the back cap with something rigid or even use deadener?

keep_hope_alive
12-28-2011, 01:01 PM
Wouldnt polyfill help correct some of the backwave issues or lining the back cap with something rigid or even use deadener?

nope. you need diffusion to break up back waves - and in order to be effective, teh diffusion needs to be 1/4 wavelength. think about what that means at 500Hz. :)

polyfill isn't as effective as fiberglass - i would choose the latter. even still, the effectiveness depends on the thickness which determines which frequencies are effected. most if it's effect is to convert sound energy to movement.

an egg shape has less benefit for diffusion but more benefit for backwave control.

when i build midrange eggs/spheres i'll use concentric wood rings so my inside shape is irregular. then i'll fill the outside for a smooth finish (foam/glass/clay/filler/etc.). but you'll still want to achieve a Q around .707 so you'll want to do some calcs to figure out airspace requirements.

you can vent the enclosure into the dash - but think also about what that means for tuning, response, and phase interference as that sound makes its way around the dash cavity.

lining the back of the cap with deadener will change the resonance frequency of the material used, but won't make a difference in airspace or backwave control.

whitedragon551
12-28-2011, 01:39 PM
So basically the only way to put together a good sounding tweeterless setup is to do custom pillars or find a driver that is great off axis and put them in kick panels.

trumpet
12-28-2011, 02:37 PM
What was mentioned in the thread more than once, and what seems to be misunderstood or ignored by you(whitedragon551) is beaming. Beaming makes the frequency response of a driver worse off axis past a certain frequency dependent on the diameter of the driver.
Please define/explain "beaming" - DIYMA.com - Scientific Car Audio - Truth in Sound Quality (http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-sq-forum-technical-advanced/27665-please-define-explain-beaming.html)

Great off axis response depends on playing a driver below the frequency at which it begins to beam, among other things. Using 13,740/s (speed of sound in inches at sea level) / driver diameter in inches, a 2" driver begins to beam at 6,870 Hz. A 3" driver begins to beam at 4,580 Hz. I'm still trying to wrap my head around a lot of audio concepts, but hopefully this is helpful.

whitedragon551
12-28-2011, 02:49 PM
What was mentioned in the thread more than once, and what seems to be misunderstood or ignored by you(whitedragon551) is beaming. Beaming makes the frequency response of a driver worse off axis past a certain frequency dependent on the diameter of the driver.
Please define/explain "beaming" - DIYMA.com - Scientific Car Audio - Truth in Sound Quality (http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-sq-forum-technical-advanced/27665-please-define-explain-beaming.html)

Great off axis response depends on playing a driver below the frequency at which it begins to beam, among other things. Using 13,740/s (speed of sound in inches at sea level) / driver diameter in inches, a 2" driver begins to beam at 6,870 Hz. A 3" driver begins to beam at 4,580 Hz. I'm still trying to wrap my head around a lot of audio concepts, but hopefully this is helpful.

Not misunderstood or ignored. Beaming can/will happen with anything larger than a 1/2" dome tweeter. How off axis a driver is affect this as well as material so its almost impossible to predict. It also only matters if your sitting outside the beam area. If your within the beam frequencies wont be lost to the ear. You only lose those frequencies outside the beam. Im sure in a tiny car like mine its difficult to miss the beam, but obviously not impossible.

Why So Cereal?
12-28-2011, 03:13 PM
Not misunderstood or ignored. Beaming can/will happen with anything larger than a 1/2" dome tweeter. How off axis a driver is affect this as well as material so its almost impossible to predict. It also only matters if your sitting outside the beam area. If your within the beam frequencies wont be lost to the ear. You only lose those frequencies outside the beam. Im sure in a tiny car like mine its difficult to miss the beam, but obviously not impossible.

Depends on how ya mount em. My car is tiny too and I'm in the passenger side beam but not the driver side at all. If u really wanna go tweeterless, you'll probably be best off with pillars or on axis kicks or as close as you can get them. The "metallic" drivers tend to be easier to get that top end 'sparkle' from too.

keep_hope_alive
12-28-2011, 10:43 PM
i have ran my 4" kick mids with only a 200Hz high pass, and they have output well above 10kHz. they are on-axis and they can sound very nice. the downside is the soundstage is constantly pulled low - and to raise it back up i need to increase the apillar tweeter output above where it blends well. certainly doable, just takes tweaking.

whitedragon551
12-29-2011, 07:09 AM
i have ran my 4" kick mids with only a 200Hz high pass, and they have output well above 10kHz. they are on-axis and they can sound very nice. the downside is the soundstage is constantly pulled low - and to raise it back up i need to increase the apillar tweeter output above where it blends well. certainly doable, just takes tweaking.

Thats great and all, but I want to try out a tweeterless setup.

pickup1
12-29-2011, 08:04 PM
these are a 2" driver!!!....

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t293/jdpickup1/for%20sale/2011-10-25222329.jpg
sorry for the hair...
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t293/jdpickup1/for%20sale/2011-10-25222504.jpg
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t293/jdpickup1/for%20sale/2011-10-25222437.jpg
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t293/jdpickup1/for%20sale/2011-10-25222420.jpg

whitedragon551
12-29-2011, 08:13 PM
Mail them to me.

pickup1
12-29-2011, 08:16 PM
already sold them,but have another set lined up to try,i like their 6.5 soul driver.i had the set x2/soul.didn't think i would ever have time to make a pod until i saw the link from diy,that might work for me to try.

whitedragon551
12-29-2011, 08:43 PM
already sold them,but have another set lined up to try,i like their 6.5 soul driver.i had the set x2/soul.didn't think i would ever have time to make a pod until i saw the link from diy,that might work for me to try.

Are those Mark Audio's?

I just bought a set of H-Audio/Audible Physics AP3's. Same thing as the Fountek FR88ex driver, but with a more updated cone material to work out the quirks of the FR88ex. Should be here tomorrow.

keep_hope_alive
12-30-2011, 12:09 AM
Thats great and all, but I want to try out a tweeterless setup.

i think you should try it with several drivers in several locations. it is a fun experiment. i like full range driver setups in general, they sound really nice at low-moderate volume levels.

whitedragon551
12-31-2011, 09:57 AM
Got my drivers yesterday. These things are tiny. They are the H-Audio/Audible Physics AP3's. They are very similar to the Trinity's and a step up from the famous Fountek FR88EX. Waiting on plots on DIYMA.

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p187/whitedragon5515/AP3/100_2288.jpg

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p187/whitedragon5515/AP3/100_2289.jpg

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p187/whitedragon5515/AP3/100_2290.jpg

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p187/whitedragon5515/AP3/100_2291.jpg

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p187/whitedragon5515/AP3/100_2292.jpg

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p187/whitedragon5515/AP3/100_2294.jpg

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p187/whitedragon5515/AP3/100_2295.jpg

Why So Cereal?
12-31-2011, 11:10 AM
Nice, they definitely are tiny, same way mine were.

Have u decided how you're gonna mount them yet?

whitedragon551
12-31-2011, 11:17 AM
Im going to try the pods with probably about .5 cubes of area. If that doesnt work Ill be doing a 3 way setup with the tweeters in the spheres instead.

Why So Cereal?
12-31-2011, 12:15 PM
Cool, make sure ya post up results on it. I might want to try something similar.


If not, I've got an extra set of new LPG 26NA tweeters u can get.... just throwing it out there :)

keep_hope_alive
12-31-2011, 02:13 PM
nice looking drivers. what did you pay for them?

whitedragon551
12-31-2011, 09:51 PM
nice looking drivers. what did you pay for them?

Cant tell you that in the off chance I want to sell them. Lets just say the price I paid would make you jealous for next day delivery for BNIB drivers.


Cool, make sure ya post up results on it. I might want to try something similar.

If not, I've got an extra set of new LPG 26NA tweeters u can get.... just throwing it out there :)

LPG makes some great tweeters. However I have a set of Eclipse tweeters that are very very close as well as a set of Morel made Xtant 28mm's that are waiting to go active.

keep_hope_alive
01-05-2012, 01:21 PM
some of the configurations i tried - dash facing up vs apillar. i did a lot of AB comparisions. the focus was soundstage and not so much tonality since airspace wasn't fully controlled. no pics of the on-axis mock-ups.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/Accord%202009/1101111540.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/Accord%202009/1101111613.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/Accord%202009/1101111613a.jpg

GammaRadiation
01-05-2012, 02:56 PM
What's the real power sensitivity like on these things? I've been looking through PE and a few other sites and they all seem to be in the 80-85 dB*w/m area with 20-30w RMS power handling. I dont like ear bleeding highs, but I'd like to be able to get in the 110-120dB area for windows down jamming and more is always nice when you want it...or want to use your vehicle as an oversized boom box.

keep_hope_alive
01-05-2012, 06:08 PM
if you want to achieve 110dBA + then you don't want these small, full range drivers as a tweeter substitute. the added challenge of getting them on-axis makes them even more work. and they really don't sound good when pushed - maybe if I was using underhung drivers that wouldn't be the case.

95dBA is easily acheivable and still a very good listening volume.

Morel has some higher power handling drivers - reflected in the cost. apparently, high power + small size = $$$

when i get a break from work (been working late nights) i want to combine the 2" full range in teh dash corner with tweeters in my apillars. I would run the dash down to 300Hz or so and increase my door midbass crossover point to meet it. i'll do this anyway since i am going to rebuild my kicks. when i build my kicks i will have a removable baffle sized for drivers as large as 7". the purpose for that is to give me someplace to put my midbass while I build fiberglass door pods.

i'll do RTA testing for each step and share with the group. :) I still have RTA testing to do on the variations I pictured above.

GammaRadiation
01-10-2012, 01:52 PM
Cool. I really want to try out a 4 way system with ribbon tweeters, mids, midbass, subs but I just dont have the money right now.

keep_hope_alive
01-10-2012, 11:28 PM
i would like to try ribbon tweeters someday. i have tried ring radiator and recently bought another pair to put in spheres.

keep_hope_alive
01-10-2012, 11:35 PM
found pics of the tang band on-axis mockup. the final version will need to be much smaller than this and fiberglassed - i lost too much visibility. i'd glass the entire airspace and not leave the back open.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/Accord%202009/1011112222.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/Accord%202009/1011112244.jpg

and some of the drivers i'll be playing with (two tweeters are for a refurb project)
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/Accord%202009/1004112230.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/Accord%202009/0830111058.jpg

Why So Cereal?
01-10-2012, 11:37 PM
found pics of the tang band on-axis mockup.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/Accord%202009/1011112222.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/Accord%202009/1011112244.jpg

and some of the drivers i'll be playing with
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/Accord%202009/1004112230.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/phat_funky_beats/Accord%202009/0830111058.jpg

so you had the mids on axis to the driver across the cabin? passenger side speaker to driver seat and vice versa?
how were the results? I'm looking to do pillars in my car and I have the 4" tang band bamboos and am looking for some ideas to try for aiming.

keep_hope_alive
01-11-2012, 11:30 PM
I haven't built a fully sealed mockup yet, so my tests were only partially useful. It is a promising concept. But I want the inside edge to be well rounded and much shorter. Also, glass is a terrible inside wall. :)

Why So Cereal?
02-07-2012, 06:31 PM
whitedragon551 whatever happened with this? any progress?

whitedragon551
02-07-2012, 10:17 PM
whitedragon551 whatever happened with this? any progress?

Not yet. Its like 10* out here and I dont have a heated garage.

whitedragon551
02-07-2012, 10:17 PM
whitedragon551 whatever happened with this? any progress?

Not yet. Its like 10* out here and I dont have a heated garage. Plus its crunch time. The rest of this semester and next to complete my Bachelors degree.

keep_hope_alive
02-09-2012, 08:15 PM
Shop Dyna-Glo Delux 30K-60K BTU Liquid Propane Forced Air Heater at Lowes.com (http://www.lowes.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10151&catalogId=10051&cId=SEARCH&productId=3458936&cm_mmc=SCE_gps-_-gps-_-gps-_-Dyna-Glo%20Delux%2030K-60K%20BTU%20Liquid%20Propane%20Forced%20Air%20Heat er&CAWELAID=1023775094)

Dyna-Glo Deluxe 30-60k BTU forced air propane heater
Makes the garage a workable space. I love it!