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Danometal
12-02-2011, 12:56 PM
Hello.

It's time to plan a nice front stage. I just ordered this:

Audio Savings | Boston Acoustics GTA-704 500W RMS 4 Channel Car Amplifier GTA704 + 8 AWG Amp Kit (http://www.audiosavings.com/products/4-Channel-Car-Amplifier/Boston-Acoustics-GTA-704-500W-RMS-4-Channel-Car-Amplifier-GTA704--8-AWG-Amp-Kit/GTA-704---WK82.aspx)

I got that for $159 shipped, and it will match my GTA-1000m I'm running on a JBL P1224 sub in 2.5 cubes @ 25 hz. (So far I'm very content with how the sub stage turned out)

I'm currently running an Alpine CDA-117 on my factory Saturn 6.5 inch components, which actually get crazy loud and clear (sweet tweeters especially), but I want it to sound more powerful and just engulf me in sound like I'm right there. I love SQ, but I don't think I need an external processor. This HU does enough for my personal tastes. I have some crappy Walmart Xplod 5.25s in the rear doors that I'll probably just leave powered by the HU, and maybe fade them out unless I have rear passengers.

So:

1). I need to know what would work best for baffles, as the factory comps' mounting ring is like 3 - 4 inches deep, so whether I use plastic or MDF baffle rings or whatever, I'll need to stack them to make the proper depth for the new speakers. So, I'll need to know what kind of adhesive/fasters/etc. to use with whatever baffle material is ideal.

2). What materials to use for deadening? (although my Saturn has plastic doors, and they don't resonate, but the door panels might).

3). What materials to seal the doors?

4). And, what are some good components to run passive?

Thanks so much!

kramer_212
12-02-2011, 01:05 PM
well this is just my opinion, and from personally use.

since it sounds like you like to listen to musics loud? i would look at the fosgate power series t1 or t2 comps. the t2s will be a little harsh but at high volumes these shine(to compare i like them better than my old focals(at high volumes)). and can be had on ebay for less than half retail.
cheap and easy way is to use rattle trap sound deadner i have used this many times and as long as your surfaces are clean it will stick, and stay on.

---------- Post added at 11:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:04 AM ----------

also not sure if you have or not i would run a thicker power wire than that 8 gauge.

Danometal
12-02-2011, 01:19 PM
well this is just my opinion, and from personally use.

since it sounds like you like to listen to musics loud? i would look at the fosgate power series t1 or t2 comps. the t2s will be a little harsh but at high volumes these shine(to compare i like them better than my old focals(at high volumes)). and can be had on ebay for less than half retail.
cheap and easy way is to use rattle trap sound deadner i have used this many times and as long as your surfaces are clean it will stick, and stay on.

---------- Post added at 11:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:04 AM ----------

also not sure if you have or not i would run a thicker power wire than that 8 gauge.

Awesome, thanks. I'm a little scared of the "harsh" thing. I definitely want mellow but loud at the same time, but I don't always listen to the system loud. Oh, and I have 0 gauge ran to a distro block by my monoblock amp. It has 2 outputs, and I'm only currently using 1 of them. So, the 8 gauge run will only be like a foot long. I mainly got that deal to get the RCAs on the cheap.

trumpet
12-02-2011, 03:38 PM
I have been writing a series of articles on sound deadening, using my Saturn SL2 as the example vehicle. How To Improve Your Vehicle’s Bass – Sound Dampening Part 1 (http://www.513electronics.com/easy-way-electronics-info/how-to-improve-your-vehicles-bass-sound-dampening-part-1/)

I would really appreciate some feedback if you do check out my articles. If you have any criticism or suggestions for other articles that would be great.

To answer your question about baffle ring materials, you can use MDF rings which can be ordered off eBay. MDF isn't the best option as even if it's treated with rubberized undercoating it can still absorb moisture and fall apart. A good alternative, which i haven't tried yet, is to pick up a couple of plastic cutting boards and make baffle rings from those. You want to shop for the plastic ones that are at least 1/4" thick.

Why So Cereal?
12-03-2011, 08:59 AM
Boston Acoustics makes some nice passive comps. I have heard their entire lineup except the SPZ(?) and was impressed with all of them for their online prices.
Whats your budget for comps?

Danometal
12-03-2011, 12:20 PM
Boston Acoustics makes some nice passive comps. I have heard their entire lineup except the SPZ(?) and was impressed with all of them for their online prices.
Whats your budget for comps?

My budget needs to be less than $200 if possible, as I'll still need some deadening and baffle material. I looked last night in my basement and I have plenty of MDF and carpet for a new amp rack. Hopefully I can fit both amps, distro blocks, and the passives on a 36 inch long amp rack.

How is the midbass on BA's comps? I need lots of snappy midbass to match the strong low end of my sub box.

Edit:

How are these?

http://www.audiosavings.com/products/6.5-and-6.75-Car-Speakers/NEW-BOSTON-ACOUSTICS-SC60-6.5-COMPONENT-CAR-SPEAKERS/SC60.aspx

Why So Cereal?
12-03-2011, 12:39 PM
My budget needs to be less than $200 if possible, as I'll still need some deadening and baffle material. I looked last night in my basement and I have plenty of MDF and carpet for a new amp rack. Hopefully I can fit both amps, distro blocks, and the passives on a 36 inch long amp rack.

How is the midbass on BA's comps? I need lots of snappy midbass to match the strong low end of my sub box.

Edit:

How are these?

Audio Savings | NEW BOSTON ACOUSTICS SC60 6.5" COMPONENT CAR SPEAKERS (http://www.audiosavings.com/products/6.5-and-6.75-Car-Speakers/NEW-BOSTON-ACOUSTICS-SC60-6.5-COMPONENT-CAR-SPEAKERS/SC60.aspx)

That SC series is very good. BA comps are install picky though. Once u seal em up they have good midbass. Also look into the Morel Maximos and pioneer ts d1720c. I love tthe Pioneer midbass its VERY punchy! And they take tons of power. I run 125 tto each midbass alone.

Danometal
12-03-2011, 01:23 PM
That SC series is very good. BA comps are install picky though. Once u seal em up they have good midbass. Also look into the Morel Maximos and pioneer ts d1720c. I love tthe Pioneer midbass its VERY punchy! And they take tons of power. I run 125 tto each midbass alone.

One thing that bothers me with the BAs is that no flush mounts for the tweeters are supplied. What's up with that? But, I do like BA from my experience with this sub amp so far. What about these:

Massive Audio RK 6 (RK6) 6.5" 2-Way RK Series Component Speakers (http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_33292_Massive-Audio-RK-6.html)

From looking on Massive's site, they take up to 250 RMS each side, and I'll probably have around 200 or so each on tap from bridged mode (I don't want to max out a 4 channel amp and make the sound all harsh) However, I'm not sure my sub can keep up with that kind of extremity.

* Goes to look up Pioneers :)

dontbeaprix
12-03-2011, 02:10 PM
I love my morels and I'm giving them 125 rms per side.

Why So Cereal?
12-03-2011, 03:41 PM
One thing that bothers me with the BAs is that no flush mounts for the tweeters are supplied. What's up with that? But, I do like BA from my experience with this sub amp so far. What about these:

Massive Audio RK 6 (RK6) 6.5" 2-Way RK Series Component Speakers (http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_33292_Massive-Audio-RK-6.html)

From looking on Massive's site, they take up to 250 RMS each side, and I'll probably have around 200 or so each on tap from bridged mode (I don't want to max out a 4 channel amp and make the sound all harsh) However, I'm not sure my sub can keep up with that kind of extremity.

* Goes to look up Pioneers :)

i hear tons about the Massives but I've never tried any or ever really wanted to, to be honest. i know a guy who ran those Pioneers active on an alpine pdx4.150 sooo that shows you just how much power they'll take

BnGRacing
12-03-2011, 04:20 PM
1). I need to know what would work best for baffles, as the factory comps' mounting ring is like 3 - 4 inches deep, so whether I use plastic or MDF baffle rings or whatever, I'll need to stack them to make the proper depth for the new speakers. So, I'll need to know what kind of adhesive/fasters/etc. to use with whatever baffle material is ideal.

If you use MDF to build up your mounting ring, hit it with some primer. MDF doesn't take well to getting wet. As far as fasteners go, sheet metal/drywall screws will be more than fine. A little strip caulk on the back of the ring to make sure it sits flush with the door wouldn't hurt either. Other materials you can use would be cheap plastic cutting boards...but it seems you need to build something out a little more that.


2). What materials to use for deadening? (although my Saturn has plastic doors, and they don't resonate, but the door panels might).

Don't get too caught up in deadening. It's easy to spend over a $100 on your doors alone while not really helping the root of the problem. Deadening does not make your speakers sound better, it's purpose is to lower road noise when your driving. If most of the road noise you experience comes from the firewall or floor, you've just wasted a lot of $ on deadening that won't do much. While it's nice to seal off the door, making a large baffle for the speakers, you can do the same thing with that Peel n Seal stuff. Overall, you'd be better off spending more $ on better speakers than better/more deadening.



3). What materials to seal the doors?

See above.




4). And, what are some good components to run passive?



You'll hear a lot of people spout off brands & models - don't pay much attention. There is no specification out there that one can look at and say "oh, these must sound awesome!" and be right 100% of the time. You really need to use your own ears. Watts? Those Massive speakers you posted are 'rated' almost as high as some very good 12" subwoofers. But when push comes to shove, I can guarantee that those mids will go up in smoke first. Don't pay attention to watts, it's a meaningless spec. Same goes for frequency response. Go to a high-end audio store and listen to some speaker towers that cost a couple grand each. They'll all be rated with a relatively flat freq response (60-20k +/- 3db), yet they'll all sound somewhat different...sometimes vastly so...but you'd never know by looking them up online.

Things I've always looked for when buying components for myself are how the passives crossovers are made, quality of components used in the crossover, and a big fat tweeter that's usually difficult to install. Why? In my experience the materials used to make the speaker cones doesn't really make much of a difference. Exotic materials & fancy motors do not mean it will sound good. The passive crossovers though, that's where the magic happens.

Generally, passive crossovers that are able to be bi-wired/amp'd tend to be of higher quality. There's exceptions of course, but generally those with that capability have a little more thought put into them. There are phase shifts at the passive crossover points and the efficiencies of the tweeter vs. mid will be different at varying frequencies. So there's a bit more to a crossover than just a cap & coil. The best, and perhaps only, way to tell is by listening. With a good crossover even plastic tweeters can sound gorgeous and is another reason why speaker material really doesn't mean that much.

Use your ears instead of what you read on a vendor's website and you'll be fine.

Danometal
12-03-2011, 11:50 PM
If you use MDF to build up your mounting ring, hit it with some primer. MDF doesn't take well to getting wet. As far as fasteners go, sheet metal/drywall screws will be more than fine. A little strip caulk on the back of the ring to make sure it sits flush with the door wouldn't hurt either. Other materials you can use would be cheap plastic cutting boards...but it seems you need to build something out a little more that.


Don't get too caught up in deadening. It's easy to spend over a $100 on your doors alone while not really helping the root of the problem. Deadening does not make your speakers sound better, it's purpose is to lower road noise when your driving. If most of the road noise you experience comes from the firewall or floor, you've just wasted a lot of $ on deadening that won't do much. While it's nice to seal off the door, making a large baffle for the speakers, you can do the same thing with that Peel n Seal stuff. Overall, you'd be better off spending more $ on better speakers than better/more deadening.



See above.



You'll hear a lot of people spout off brands & models - don't pay much attention. There is no specification out there that one can look at and say "oh, these must sound awesome!" and be right 100% of the time. You really need to use your own ears. Watts? Those Massive speakers you posted are 'rated' almost as high as some very good 12" subwoofers. But when push comes to shove, I can guarantee that those mids will go up in smoke first. Don't pay attention to watts, it's a meaningless spec. Same goes for frequency response. Go to a high-end audio store and listen to some speaker towers that cost a couple grand each. They'll all be rated with a relatively flat freq response (60-20k +/- 3db), yet they'll all sound somewhat different...sometimes vastly so...but you'd never know by looking them up online.

Things I've always looked for when buying components for myself are how the passives crossovers are made, quality of components used in the crossover, and a big fat tweeter that's usually difficult to install. Why? In my experience the materials used to make the speaker cones doesn't really make much of a difference. Exotic materials & fancy motors do not mean it will sound good. The passive crossovers though, that's where the magic happens.

Generally, passive crossovers that are able to be bi-wired/amp'd tend to be of higher quality. There's exceptions of course, but generally those with that capability have a little more thought put into them. There are phase shifts at the passive crossover points and the efficiencies of the tweeter vs. mid will be different at varying frequencies. So there's a bit more to a crossover than just a cap & coil. The best, and perhaps only, way to tell is by listening. With a good crossover even plastic tweeters can sound gorgeous and is another reason why speaker material really doesn't mean that much.

Use your ears instead of what you read on a vendor's website and you'll be fine.

Intriguing info. One reason I'm concerned with watts is that, in my wife's setup, I have a Kicker 200.2 (75 watts RMS/channel) pushing Polk DB comps, which are rated for 100+ RMS. It gets a little raspy at high volume, so I'm thinking the lack of overhead power on tap is making the difference. However, I'm running a LOC off her factory HU until tax time, so maybe a nice clean 4V signal will help that, plus I might buy her a nice 4 channel and bridge it. And, I plan to get enough material to seal her doors and mine, and maybe some deadener to do the 25% coverage approach. I suppose deadener can cover small holes where solid material isn't practical.

I definitely don't know the ins and outs of passive Xovers. Do you have any suggestions for a comp set with a proven passive Xover design? Lots of midbass is important too. Thanks bro.

Brandon Grubbs
12-04-2011, 01:55 AM
Hey man, come stop by and i will let you hear my front stage. hybrid audio imagine.

trumpet
12-04-2011, 02:34 AM
If you use MDF to build up your mounting ring, hit it with some primer. MDF doesn't take well to getting wet.

Primer, or spray paint as well, does not block moisture. Ever seen a body panel rust out when someone tried to do their own body work? Use a few coats of rubberized undercoating spray on MDF speaker rings.



Don't get too caught up in deadening. It's easy to spend over a $100 on your doors alone while not really helping the root of the problem. Deadening does not make your speakers sound better, it's purpose is to lower road noise when your driving. If most of the road noise you experience comes from the firewall or floor, you've just wasted a lot of $ on deadening that won't do much. While it's nice to seal off the door, making a large baffle for the speakers, you can do the same thing with that Peel n Seal stuff. Overall, you'd be better off spending more $ on better speakers than better/more deadening.

You're entirely wrong on this subject, so please stop giving bad advice. Peel'n'Seal is for roofs, not vehicles. Compare it to real sound deadener tiles and notice the two main differences: 1) it's asphalt based, not butyl based 2) it has no metal bonded to it. The metal isn't there just to look shiny.

As for sound deadening not improving the sound of your door's speakers, all you need to do is perform a search and you'll find countless evidence to the contrary.
Sound Deadener Showdown - Your Source for Sound Deadening Products and Information (http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com)


Regarding your advice about power ratings on speakers, the thing to remember is music is dynamic and your speakers are only momentarily going to receive your amp's maximum power output. This is why people can run 200 watts per channel on 50 watt RMS speakers and not instantly blow them up. Obviously this requires correct tuning and careful gain matching and also not listening to compressed music at high volume.

whitedragon551
12-04-2011, 02:36 AM
Deadener will help. Its purpose is not to stop road noise. Thats what Mass Loaded Vinyl is for.

BnGRacing
12-04-2011, 03:12 AM
You're entirely wrong on this subject, so please stop giving bad advice. Peel'n'Seal is for roofs, not vehicles. Compare it to real sound deadener tiles and notice the two main differences: 1) it's asphalt based, not butyl based 2) it has no metal bonded to it. The metal isn't there just to look shiny.

As for sound deadening not improving the sound of your door's speakers, all you need to do is perform a search and you'll find countless evidence to the contrary.
Sound Deadener Showdown - Your Source for Sound Deadening Products and Information (http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com)


Here's some advice; there's a 75% mark-up on sound dampening material (by Dynamic Control at least). Remember that next time you tell yourself that sound deadener Brand X is worth the trouble. In addition, go listen to the difference yourself. Deaden your door with the really expensive stuff and then use the cheap stuff from a home improvement store. You'll probably need a microphone & test equipment to 'hear' the difference.

I don't need to read the hype and marketing from a sound deadening website. The simple fact is a HU can go from one car to another as will an amp, component speakers, subwoofers, etc. You cannot take sound deadening with you and unless you have money to burn I wouldn't waste $100 or so to only do the doors when $15 from a Home Depot product will be 'good enough' to seal openings.

If you want to buy expensive sound deadening, that's fine. The OP seems to be on a budget and spending money on 'the good stuff' will not be money well spent.

Sound deadening has its purpose, that I will not argue, but I wouldn't include that in the OP's budget, especially if that money can be allocated to better speakers/amps.

whitedragon551
12-04-2011, 08:43 AM
Here's some advice; there's a 75% mark-up on sound dampening material (by Dynamic Control at least). Remember that next time you tell yourself that sound deadener Brand X is worth the trouble. In addition, go listen to the difference yourself. Deaden your door with the really expensive stuff and then use the cheap stuff from a home improvement store. You'll probably need a microphone & test equipment to 'hear' the difference.

I don't need to read the hype and marketing from a sound deadening website. The simple fact is a HU can go from one car to another as will an amp, component speakers, subwoofers, etc. You cannot take sound deadening with you and unless you have money to burn I wouldn't waste $100 or so to only do the doors when $15 from a Home Depot product will be 'good enough' to seal openings.

If you want to buy expensive sound deadening, that's fine. The OP seems to be on a budget and spending money on 'the good stuff' will not be money well spent.

Sound deadening has its purpose, that I will not argue, but I wouldn't include that in the OP's budget, especially if that money can be allocated to better speakers/amps.

THe science behind it alone makes the asphalt based junk just that. The intention of deadener is to allow the butyl layer to contract and expand turning sound waves into heat through the alluminum layer. An asphalt based adhesive doesnt do that. The ONLY way an asphalt based deadener works is because it adds mass which is the second reason for using deadener.

Danometal
12-04-2011, 11:15 AM
Hey man, come stop by and i will let you hear my front stage. hybrid audio imagine.

For sure man! I'm off work next week, so I won't be in town, but the week after I'll cruise up there on lunch. I've read about the HAT Imagines. Where do you get those from?

BTW, what kind of sub stage you running these days?

Danometal
12-04-2011, 11:28 AM
Here's some advice; there's a 75% mark-up on sound dampening material (by Dynamic Control at least). Remember that next time you tell yourself that sound deadener Brand X is worth the trouble. In addition, go listen to the difference yourself. Deaden your door with the really expensive stuff and then use the cheap stuff from a home improvement store. You'll probably need a microphone & test equipment to 'hear' the difference.

I don't need to read the hype and marketing from a sound deadening website. The simple fact is a HU can go from one car to another as will an amp, component speakers, subwoofers, etc. You cannot take sound deadening with you and unless you have money to burn I wouldn't waste $100 or so to only do the doors when $15 from a Home Depot product will be 'good enough' to seal openings.

If you want to buy expensive sound deadening, that's fine. The OP seems to be on a budget and spending money on 'the good stuff' will not be money well spent.

Sound deadening has its purpose, that I will not argue, but I wouldn't include that in the OP's budget, especially if that money can be allocated to better speakers/amps.

I've thought about this. This is the exact reason I haven't spent $400 on a HO alternator for my car with 153K miles. I plan to leave all the HU to speakers wiring intact even with running new wires, and I plan to leave the factory tweeters intact, but disconnected, and mount the new tweeters probably like this:

Cheap, adjustable, easily replaceable tweeter pods - DIYMA.com - Scientific Car Audio - Truth in Sound Quality (http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/how-articles-provided-our-members/53732-cheap-adjustable-easily-replaceable-tweeter-pods.html)

--- just in case I get rid of the car at some point (probably not though, saves $$ having no car payment). Nontheless, I don't wanna dump too much money in the car itself. Like you said, the equipment can be moved over to any other car (as long as it fits).

Brandon Grubbs
12-04-2011, 10:47 PM
For sure man! I'm off work next week, so I won't be in town, but the week after I'll cruise up there on lunch. I've read about the HAT Imagines. Where do you get those from?

BTW, what kind of sub stage you running these days?

DD 2channel for the hybrid's and audiopipe 1800 on two 12in audiopipes subs. It sounds good but will be pulling it out soon for a better sub stage. Im going more sq. You still rocking that same box that was tuned low??

Danometal
12-05-2011, 01:46 AM
DD 2channel for the hybrid's and audiopipe 1800 on two 12in audiopipes subs. It sounds good but will be pulling it out soon for a better sub stage. Im going more sq. You still rocking that same box that was tuned low??

Yea, the one in my sig ^

I yanked the other box you looked at, where the sub was mounted off in the corner in a low profile box, magnet up, port loaded into the fenderwell. It hammered real hard and low, but lacked any high end. New box is much much more balanced sounding. Half of it is port though. The port takes a 90 degree turn like normal, and then a 180 degree turn at the other side, all with 45s and rounded off edges except the outer port opening edges. The 45s were a nightmare with just a skill saw out in my gravel driveway. I envy the tablesaw in your shop. I'm not building another box anytime soon unless there's $$ in it. I will stick with ported, tuned low, with 45s and rounded corners from here out in my builds, but never again with that dang skill saw.

I'm looking forward to a new amp rack build when I get some comps and such.

Danometal
12-05-2011, 01:56 AM
OK, I found an authorized HAT dealer on the webz:

Imagine I61-2 6.5" Component / Coaxial Speaker Set - 12v Electronics (http://store.12velectronics.com/imagine-i61-2-6-5-component-coaxial-speaker-set/)

Smexy.

Edit: Wait a minute!! Where's the Xovers?? I need those.

zako
12-05-2011, 04:01 AM
OK, I found an authorized HAT dealer on the webz:

Imagine I61-2 6.5" Component / Coaxial Speaker Set - 12v Electronics (http://store.12velectronics.com/imagine-i61-2-6-5-component-coaxial-speaker-set/)

Smexy.

Edit: Wait a minute!! Where's the Xovers?? I need those.


These speakers are designed so that the woofer does not need a low pass crossover. According to HAT owner, the woofer plays up to 5000KHz, then starts rolling off. The tweeter uses a capacitor as a high pass filter. The capacitor is on the back of woofer. The tweeter plugs into a connector on the back of woofer.

I have these speakers and they really shine when running active. Running them active is very simple. Your head unit's "front" channels run full range and connect to the amplifier pre-amp. The amplifier outs connect to Imagine tweeters directly with a 2.2uF capacitor inserted inline on the positive wire. I didn't want to detach the factory cap from the woofer, so I bought a couple dayton capacitors from PE for $4. The head unit's "rear" channels connect to amplifier and then to the imagines woofer without any crossovers between them. Why would you want to do this? This gives you an ability to tune speakers beyond what's allowed by even the best of passive component sets. You can time align woofers with each other and tweeters with each other (separately from woofers), resulting in very solid imaging and sound staging if you do it right. Another benefit is that you can match the level of tweeters with the woofers a lot better than what's typically allowed by passive crossover boxes.This is what I am running right now, and both imaging and tonality is very good. There are several tutorials on DIYMA about how to tune an active front stage, but even without those, after spending a few minutes to enter some rough parameters, I still like the sound a lot. Very clear midrange. Bass is kind of dry and tight, and there is a good amount of it. The disadvantage of this approach is that you lose two amplifier channels, so if 4 speaker channels is all you have, then you can't run rear speakers AT ALL.. Of course, you can run these speakers in passive crossover mode, but you lose all that ability to tune.

HAT web site has some papers on these topics:
http://www.hybrid-audio.com/ARCHIVE_OLD_SITE/White%20Paper%20-%202%20Way%20Quasi-Active%20Crossover%20System.pdf
http://www.hybrid-audio.com/ARCHIVE_OLD_SITE/White%20Paper%20-Imagine-Series%20Crossovers.pdf


In fact, this is why I like HAT speakers. I can run them "quasi-active" without owning any equipment with active crossovers. There could be speaker that in passive mode may sound better than these also running passive for the same money. But these speakers are so easy to bi-amp, and you don't get this with every speaker.

zako
12-05-2011, 04:20 AM
In my opinion, if you plan to sound proof more than your front doors, raammat.com products are the best value per square foot. I ordered one box of raammat's bxt2 sound dampening material (36sq ft) and 12 sq ft of ensolite ccf (Just about $120 shipped). This was enough to cover two of my Taurus doors, the trunk, many other areas. I still have some left overs. I kind of got lazy and bored after spending hours on deading my car, and the box still was not running out of material.. They also have a pretty good tutorial online. One good rule to remember is not to waste the bxt2 material. You should cover the middle 50% of the area of flat metal spots only. Bent metal does not resonate. 50% coverage works as well as 100% coverage (some say 25% is enough). The only area of my car that's 100% covered by btx2 is the middle section of the door, because the goal was to seal it, creating the best possible approximation to an infinite baffle for the door speakers, with a layer of Ensolite on top. I think of treating the floor of my car when I get bored enough.. but dftly not the roof.

zako
12-05-2011, 04:32 AM
1). I need to know what would work best for baffles, as the factory comps' mounting ring is like 3 - 4 inches deep, so whether I use plastic or MDF baffle rings or whatever, I'll need to stack them to make the proper depth for the new speakers. So, I'll need to know what kind of adhesive/fasters/etc. to use with whatever baffle material is ideal.


3-4 inches would be awesome. Most car speakers need less than 3 inches of mounting. If you have 3 inches, you're in fine shape. If you had 4 inches, that would open up possibilities for some relatively exotic midbass drivers.

zako
12-05-2011, 04:45 AM
Sorry to add another post, but did you really need to buy that amplifier wiring kit? Don't you run some kind of wiring to your trunk already? If you already run 4awg power wire to your trunk, then it must be good for 120-130amps of current, and 120-130 amps of current should be good enough for up to 1355watts of class D RMS power. An oversize 4awg wire, like the one I got in my SteetWires kit from soniceletronix, should be good enough for 150amps of current and well over 1500watts of class D power. Unless you're setting up a massive SPL vehicle, 1 awg is just overkill.. but 8awg seems undersized and also redundant. If you have 4awg power wire running to your trunk, all you need is a power distribution block and a ground distribution block, plus the cables to reach the other amplifier.

BTW, I was pulling these numbers from here:

WIRE (http://www.bcae1.com/wire.htm)

Danometal
12-05-2011, 12:41 PM
Excellent info Zako!!

Yes, I do have 0 AWG ran to the trunk, and I have a direct ground from the trunk to the front in 0 AWG. I was going to go serious SQL with a big alternator and everything, but I ended up heading down the mild SQ road. However, the wire is there, so I'll just leave it. 2 runs of 0 gauge really suucked to run in my car.

BTW, I was planning to bridge my new 4 channel for more power. If I don't, 70 watts RMS is the max I can get out of each channel. I was hoping to bridge it to 250 watts x 2, and turn the gain down to only see a perfectly clean 100 - 150 watts or so. If I do that, I may need to cut some highs with the Alpine's built in PEQ.

Also, will deadener alone seal big holes in the door, or would more rigid material be necessary? I just don't know if flexing soft mater in the door "enclosure" would affect anything.

Much thanks man.

zako
12-05-2011, 01:35 PM
You don't have to bridge channels. Most 6.5 speakers do not really have mechanical excursion to allow them to handle more than 60-80watts if a reasonable high pass crossover frequency used. The ratings of 100watts RMS or higher are most likely thermal rating, but mechanical excursion/xmax power handling are more limiting. Some speaker manufacturers provide T/S parameters for their woofers (HAT, Infinity, and some others). I have played around with HAT Imagine woofer in WinISD (had to use 2sq ft to approximate IB, but it wasn't really sensitive to box size). 70-80 watts were more than enough to reach and exceed its one way xmax of 6mm with 80Hz crossover. Alpines I had are rated for 110watts but in reality handled even worse in real life power handling.

Danometal
12-05-2011, 04:12 PM
I wonder how these sound. The price is definitely right:

RE Audio RE6.5C 6-1/2", RE Series 2-Way Component Car Speakers (http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_27340_RE-Audio-RE6.5C.html)

trumpet
12-05-2011, 05:44 PM
Also, will deadener alone seal big holes in the door, or would more rigid material be necessary? I just don't know if flexing soft mater in the door "enclosure" would affect anything.

The sound deadener you should be using has metal bonded to the butyl adhesive, and what I've seen is deadener applied to the back side of the hole, and then more deadener applied from the front side. This depends on how easily you can get your hand inside the door, or if you can take the outer door skin off.

The way I did it was to use sheet metal, rope caulk to seal it to the door, and CLD material on the sheet metal. 18-20 gauge metal is galvanized metal is good. You'll want to be able to cut it by hand. I documented it (http://www.513electronics.com/?p=1100) with a write-up.

Danometal
12-05-2011, 06:04 PM
The sound deadener you should be using has metal bonded to the butyl adhesive, and what I've seen is deadener applied to the back side of the hole, and then more deadener applied from the front side. This depends on how easily you can get your hand inside the door, or if you can take the outer door skin off.

The way I did it was to use sheet metal, rope caulk to seal it to the door, and CLD material on the sheet metal. 18-20 gauge metal is galvanized metal is good. You'll want to be able to cut it by hand. I documented it (http://www.513electronics.com/?p=1100) with a write-up.

* "material" I really need to watch my typos.

Hey!! I have some rope caulk!! I suppose sheet metal won't be so thick so as to affect the replacement of the door panel..

Danometal
12-07-2011, 04:12 PM
Update:

I was on Sonicelectronix's backorder email list, and they emailed me today that these are now available:

Massive Audio CK6V 6.5" 2-Way Stage V Component Car Speaker System (http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_40274_Massive-Audio-CK6V.html)

So, I ordered them!! The guy on the phone said they got in 7 sets today, and I bought number 6. That's how fast they go. There's only one set left.

When I get them installed, I'll be sure to post a review...

zako
12-07-2011, 10:20 PM
Based on reviews out there, these should sound very good.