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daboyfrumdabx
10-28-2010, 05:51 PM
Hey guys, I installed a viper 5901 yesterday. To the best of my knowledge everything is installed correctly and my issue is just something in the settings but I just can't get it work.

Everything relating to the alarm portion is working 100%. The remote starter will start the car but the car will shut off immediately and no error code is given(the remote just says "remote start off"). At first it would run for about 15 seconds then shut down. I messed around with the tach settings(virtual tach, voltage, off, and tachometer) and now the car shuts off immediately. I tried not connecting the tachometer wire and using both the virtual tach and voltage settings, no go. I then connected the tach wire and tried the tachometer setting and no go. Any one have any idea what it could be or any advice to help me troubleshoot the issue? Thanks in advance.

DMP
10-28-2010, 07:09 PM
If you hook up the tach, the system must be set for tach....not voltage or virtual tach. Did you program the tach at all? (tach learning)

daboyfrumdabx
10-28-2010, 09:08 PM
I've tried setting the system for tach and hooking up the wire. My instructions say to program tach I have to start the car with the key and press and hold the control button within 5 seconds of starting, then wait till the LED lights up, at which point it's programmed. Still doesn't work. I'm lost at this point

DMP
10-28-2010, 09:22 PM
Ok what exactly doesnt work? When you try to program the tach? If so, either you arent doing it right or you have the wrong tach wire. You should verify it with a meter. Set the meter to AC and tach wire should read between 1v and 6v and will increase with the RPM's.

x1le
10-28-2010, 09:32 PM
Check your remote start shutdown diagnostics. After the vehicle shuts down, the parking lights will flash and you'll hear the relay click a certain number of times. That # of times corresponds to why it's shutting down, check the manual.

Also, in order to make sure it has to do with the starter itself and not the bypass module (if it has one) is put the key in the ignition and then start it. If it stays running, you know it's a module issue, if not, it's the starter.

One last thing to check is your ground! if it's shutting down 5-10 seconds after remote started, the brain could be pulling ground through something such as the parking light circuit, and as soon as it loses ground shuts the unit off.

daboyfrumdabx
10-28-2010, 09:41 PM
Ok what exactly doesnt work? When you try to program the tach? If so, either you arent doing it right or you have the wrong tach wire. You should verify it with a meter. Set the meter to AC and tach wire should read between 1v and 6v and will increase with the RPM's.
Nope, the LED lights up just as the manual says, programming is working. Already verified the tach wire :(

Check your remote start shutdown diagnostics. After the vehicle shuts down, the parking lights will flash and you'll hear the relay click a certain number of times. That # of times corresponds to why it's shutting down, check the manual.

Also, in order to make sure it has to do with the starter itself and not the bypass module (if it has one) is put the key in the ignition and then start it. If it stays running, you know it's a module issue, if not, it's the starter.

One last thing to check is your ground! if it's shutting down 5-10 seconds after remote started, the brain could be pulling ground through something such as the parking light circuit, and as soon as it loses ground shuts the unit off.

The remote just says "remote start off", not "remote start error" and therefore doesn't blink the parking lights or click the relay. I was looking for that initially because the unit came default in manual mode and that was the first issue I ran into but was able to handle that do the number of clicks.

I'm going to go check that key trick now. Too dark to mess with the ground now but if this key thing doesn't determine the issue, that will be first on the list for tomorrow.

daboyfrumdabx
10-28-2010, 10:32 PM
New symptoms....obviously. Went out try out that key trick. If the key is in the ignition when I try to start it, it won't start and tells me on the remote that the key is in the ignition. Otherwise, if I just try to start with the remote, it won't start at all now. Headlights and dash lights and all turn on but it doesn't even crank. Would you guys still bank on an immobilizer issue?

x1le
10-28-2010, 10:38 PM
What year/make/model of vehicle?

daboyfrumdabx
10-28-2010, 11:15 PM
Also wanted to add that the remote now says "remote start error" and the lights do do not flash. My manual interprets no flashing to mean that the alarm is triggered?

'04 Pontiac Grand Am. Security light in the dash(for Passlock) has been on solid for months now. My research told me that if it's on solid it means that the system disabled itself due to an error. If it's blinking it means the passlock has been activated and hence the car will not start. But it's solid so it should start. Key starts it fine. My last Grand Am('01) had the same light on, but the remote start worked fine in it.

DMP
10-29-2010, 01:33 AM
Also wanted to add that the remote now says "remote start error" and the lights do do not flash. My manual interprets no flashing to mean that the alarm is triggered?

'04 Pontiac Grand Am. Security light in the dash(for Passlock) has been on solid for months now. My research told me that if it's on solid it means that the system disabled itself due to an error. If it's blinking it means the passlock has been activated and hence the car will not start. But it's solid so it should start. Key starts it fine. My last Grand Am('01) had the same light on, but the remote start worked fine in it.

The door triggers on your car need to be diode isolated. Did you do that? If not, you will have false triggers.

Also, what kind of bypass did you use?

jrouter76
10-29-2010, 01:47 AM
here something to do disconnect all power from remote for about 3 mins, check your ground wire take it alose and reconnect then reconnect the power to the remote start/alarm and then go through the programming again for the tach setting...speaking from a similar situation that happen to me...lmk if this helped solved your problem Forgot make sure your neutral safety switch wire is grounded properly.

daboyfrumdabx
10-29-2010, 01:02 PM
Alright so I made some progress this morning, it was something I did consider yesterday but since it didn't pose an issue with my last car, I didn't think it was the cause. Car started with the remote. So I took a DMM to the brake wire and measured the voltage, it was sitting around 2V while the car idled and the voltage slowly climbs until it reaches a level high enough to simulate the pedal being pressed and shuts off. I disconnected the brake wire from the Viper unit and ran it to ground where it obviously won't experience any voltage and the car starts and runs for the desired amount of time with no issues.

I have LED tail lights on my car and had them on my last Grand Am as well. My experience with both is that I can not use the cruise control function when the lights are on. So I'm guessing the tail lights are backfeeding some voltage and making the car think the brake in pressed therefore not allowing cruise control to engage. Or if cruise is on and then I turn the lights on, cruise shuts off within a few seconds. That issue was the same for both cars. However, the tail lights never posed an issue for the remote start on the last car. Both units are DEI units so I would've thought they'd react the same since the car were essentially the same.

So the new question, you guys have any idea how I can fix this tail light issue if it is indeed backfeeding into the system? I'd like to be able to hook up the brake wire again because obviously it's a safety feature.

Thank you all for trying to help me diagnose the issue and thank you in advance for anyone that can help me from here.

DMP
10-29-2010, 10:33 PM
Installing a diode or diodes prevent backfeed. You can do the same thing with a relay too. How do you wire it up with your tail light issue?.....I dont know.

daboyfrumdabx
10-30-2010, 12:49 AM
2nd person to tell me to try to diode isolate so I think it's worth a shot. Hopefully I'll have time to try it tomorrow.

Louisiana_CRX
10-30-2010, 01:07 AM
sounds like its a bypass problem

DMP
10-30-2010, 02:04 AM
BTW, the right brake wire should be 0 volts at rest and 12 volts when you press the brake pedal.

daboyfrumdabx
10-30-2010, 02:59 AM
sounds like its a bypass problem
Nah, definitely related to the LED tails. If I unplug the tails, I have no issues. If I leave the brake wire disconnected I have no issues. Some diodes should cure it.


BTW, the right brake wire should be 0 volts at rest and 12 volts when you press the brake pedal.

I have the right wire. It reads 0V at rest and 12V when pressed if I unplug the LED tail lights. With them plugged it immediately reads near 2V once I start the car and climbs until the car shuts off. Like I said, I have it doing what I want it to now that I grounded that wire. I'm pretty confident that once I diode isolate that wire, I'll be in good shape. I'll update tomorrow...or today rather...how it goes if I get the chance to mess with it.

One diode should do it. I think I just need a diode between the Viper connection and the car...not between the Viper and the brake switch itself. This way if the brake really is pressed, the Viper can still get the 12V to shut off and no voltage backfeeding from the tail lights can reach that wire. We'll see what happens.

x1le
10-30-2010, 06:52 PM
The diodes really won't do much I don't think. That problem sounds strange though. If the voltage on your switch is slowly rising, is it also engaging your brake lights on it's own?

But the easiest way to fix this issue, without messing with the taillights in any way, is if you also have a wire that goes to ground when the brake pedal is pressed. Then just change the polarity of the brake wire with a relay. 85 - (-)brake wire, 86 & 30 - 12v, 87 - (+)brake shutoff from brain

daboyfrumdabx
10-30-2010, 06:59 PM
Just finished up the diode idea and it's working so far. The tail lights turn on automatically when the the car is started with the remote and it's the same LEDs for regular tail lights and brake lights, just different brightness. If the diode fix fails at any point, I'll give the relay a shot. Thanks everyone. Hopefully this is the end of my problems.

I might draw up a picture in paint later to make sense of what I did.

daboyfrumdabx
10-30-2010, 07:17 PM
Here's what I did.
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Put a diode(black) on the car's brake wire(blue), after the RS wire(brown). The diode is set up to allow current to flow in the direction of the arrow, to the rest of the car only. So any current trying to back feed can't reach the wire to the RS. The RS will still get the signal when the brake is actually pressed to shut down. I just had it run the full 12 minutes that it's set up for and it made it with no issues.

DMP
10-31-2010, 01:15 AM
Good to hear you figured it out. I dont think you will have a problem with a diode going bad.

daboyfrumdabx
10-31-2010, 01:44 AM
Good to hear you figured it out. I dont think you will have a problem with a diode going bad.

Thanks again for the help.