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View Full Version : 2x SSA Icon 12"s or 1x SSA Xcon 15" / Which would you choose?



rsgladwin85
09-08-2010, 10:01 PM
Out of curiousity, if you only had two choices and they were between those listed in the title both running in the SSA recommended Optimal Sealed box's, being pushed by an MB Quart DSC-2000.1d, which would you choose?

Xcon 15" Optimal Sealed box:
Sound Solutions Audio - 15" XCON Optimal Sealed Enclosure (http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/index.php/technical/xcon-box-designs/xcon-15-optimal-sealed.html)

Icon 12" Optimal Sealed box:
Sound Solutions Audio - 12" ICON Optimal Sealed Enclosure (http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/index.php/technical/icon-box-designs/icon-12-optimal-sealed.html)

Maglite
09-09-2010, 03:08 AM
2 are better than one.

Boomsday
09-09-2010, 03:26 AM
icons

Cruzer
09-09-2010, 03:40 AM
neither, but if i had to, icons.

two AE AV12X off 2000 watts gets just as loud as the 12" icons and are a total of $90 cheaper
AE AV15X off 1000watts gets just as loud as the 15"xcon and is $140 cheaper

denim
09-09-2010, 10:36 AM
What are your goals? The Icon's have more cone surface and would be less power compression, the single Xcon will take up less space.

denim
09-09-2010, 10:37 AM
neither, but if i had to, icons.

two AE AV12X off 2000 watts gets just as loud as the 12" icons and are a total of $90 cheaper
AE AV15X off 1000watts gets just as loud as the 15"xcon and is $140 cheaper

Just wondering, have you tested this? Not that we are worried about SPL as that is not our market or focus.

O.G. D-Wet
09-09-2010, 11:47 AM
2 icons... but im curious too, denim^^^

rsgladwin85
09-09-2010, 11:58 AM
What are your goals? The Icon's have more consurface and would be less power compression, the single Xcon will take up less space.

My goals are to have something that will most effectively utilize the power being supplied, in the space provided. I'd like to have something with a decent SPL, that will sound clean and smooth at the same time.

If I went with one Xcon, I would still have the space to add on a second later, but I'm not sure I want to go to all the trouble to upgrade my electrical to handle that much power.

denim
09-09-2010, 12:49 PM
My goals are to have something that will most effectively utilize the power being supplied, in the space provided. I'd like to have something with a decent SPL, that will sound clean and smooth at the same time.

If I went with one Xcon, I would still have the space to add on a second later, but I'm not sure I want to go to all the trouble to upgrade my electrical to handle that much power.

You would not be required to add more power. The Xcon's have a higher rms ratting, but that does not mean they need gobs of power. They are perfectly fine on 1000 watts, heck even less than that in a few people's installs.

rusty_armadillo
09-09-2010, 12:58 PM
I loved my single icon 12 off 800 rms and was really impressed at how loud it got too. I never had room for 2 but I'm sure youd be impressed with them off that amount of power.

Cruzer
09-09-2010, 03:28 PM
Just wondering, have you tested this? Not that we are worried about SPL as that is not our market or focus.

They are all well built products providing great sound quality, all taking the same power.

as far as the icon 12 vs the ae av 12, they are pretty similar, including xmax, so i would expect pretty similar results. winisd also agrees

the xcon 15 and ae av 15 is again pretty similar, but the xcon does indeed have a good little chunk of xmax over the ae av. still winisd says they get pretty similar.

anyways, the point of the post was that even if the ssa products are indeed a little louder, i dont see paying that extra money for not even 3dbs.

ive tested other similarly built subs, a 15 dc and 15 fi ssd, off the same power, they sound identical, nothing audibly different. perhaps im wrong, but i would assume since both the ssa products and ae av are great built products, they would yield similar results, and if the ssa product gets louder, well u pay for it.

rsgladwin85
09-09-2010, 05:04 PM
You would not be required to add more power. The Xcon's have a higher rms ratting, but that does not mean they need gobs of power. They are perfectly fine on 1000 watts, heck even less than that in a few people's installs.

Maybe not required. But you know how us guys are. I'd feel almost neglectful to have it able to handle that much extra power, and not supply it. lol.


perhaps im wrong, but i would assume since both the ssa products and ae av are great built products, they would yield similar results, and if the ssa product gets louder, well u pay for it.

A little extra money isn't my primary concern. And if it gives me a little potential for more then even better. Also I just plain like the SSA designs and looks overall. Thanks for the comparative analysis though, I appreciate all input.

denim
09-10-2010, 03:30 PM
They are all well built products providing great sound quality, all taking the same power.

as far as the icon 12 vs the ae av 12, they are pretty similar, including xmax, so i would expect pretty similar results. winisd also agrees

the xcon 15 and ae av 15 is again pretty similar, but the xcon does indeed have a good little chunk of xmax over the ae av. still winisd says they get pretty similar.

anyways, the point of the post was that even if the ssa products are indeed a little louder, i dont see paying that extra money for not even 3dbs.

ive tested other similarly built subs, a 15 dc and 15 fi ssd, off the same power, they sound identical, nothing audibly different. perhaps im wrong, but i would assume since both the ssa products and ae av are great built products, they would yield similar results, and if the ssa product gets louder, well u pay for it.

Thanks for the feedback. WinISD is fun for getting a general idea, but I never use it to make concrete decision oro judgetment calls, as it cannot simulate in-vehicle response/peroformance. So until physically tested in respective optimal arrangements per vehicle and enclosure, you can never know for sure.

I find it interesting that you say the AE AV model is similar (outside of xmax) to both the Icon and Xcon, whom are not that similar to each other.

Side note, the the DC and Fi may originally have had a similiar design but they are built on two different places with different parts and materials, so the process could be different and the end result would be that way also. The SSD and Icon may share a few parts, but not that many to perform or seem the same.

The funny thing is, higher output for more money is not the goal or focus of our designs. In addition, our prices are where they are due to high parts, materials and build costs, Mark and I have full time jobs outside of SSA. ;)

denim
09-10-2010, 03:31 PM
Maybe not required. But you know how us guys are. I'd feel almost neglectful to have it able to handle that much extra power, and not supply it. lol.
Based on this post, I think the pair of Icon 12's would be the better choice for you. :)

Cruzer
09-10-2010, 06:40 PM
Thanks for the feedback. WinISD is fun for getting a general idea, but I never use it to make concrete decision oro judgetment calls, as it cannot simulate in-vehicle response/peroformance. So until physically tested in respective optimal arrangements per vehicle and enclosure, you can never know for sure.

I find it interesting that you say the AE AV model is similar (outside of xmax) to both the Icon and Xcon, whom are not that similar to each other.

Side note, the the DC and Fi may originally have had a similiar design but they are built on two different places with different parts and materials, so the process could be different and the end result would be that way also. The SSD and Icon may share a few parts, but not that many to perform or seem the same.

The funny thing is, higher output for more money is not the goal or focus of our designs. In addition, our prices are where they are due to high parts, materials and build costs, Mark and I have full time jobs outside of SSA. ;)

i dont use winisd to pick my product either. Without any experience of the products, i use winisd to get a general idea. just like u said it can be used for.

i do have a question to ask. if winisd cannot determine which will perform better in certain vehicles, which i do agree with you. why do you figure your product is better? just because you claim its built better, or with better parts?

a lot of times better parts just equals longer lasting.

anyways, u say ur dc and fi use different parts and their builds are very different.

yet i tested a 15 from each and they sound almost identical. and if u throw them into winisd and compare them in the same size box, same power, they look pretty identical as well.

so this just proves that while ssa make great products, does not mean its going to sound better just because its more known, or costs more.

lastly when i said they look similar, i just meant that they take the same power, have similar xmax. i didnt go into great detail because i was in a hurry and i dont even understand half the other t/s specs anyways.

also please dont forget in my original post i said i may be wrong, because i very well may be. ive been in car audio for a whole 2 years now. most of that time i just bought rockford fosgate unknowingly, without any research, or care. not until the past few months have i care to experiment, learn, care.

Bumpin' Goalie
09-10-2010, 06:56 PM
I don't really see denim claiming the SSA line is superior. He is just stating facts and ideals that are accurate about the materials, and purposes of some recently common woofers.

As far as WinISD, I love it for vague comparisons, but nothing compares to hands on experience.

The SSA line up is a nice selection of woofers who have more apart than thermal ability.

Throughout my experiences, I've never been disappointed with SSA's customer service, and the woofers I've used.

Speaking of which, denim, I've been abusing some more Dcons for a while now. They just won't die...Stubborn little guys.

Cruzer
09-10-2010, 07:00 PM
I don't really see denim claiming the SSA line is superior. He is just stating facts and ideals that are accurate about the materials, and purposes of some recently common woofers.

As far as WinISD, I love it for vague comparisons, but nothing compares to hands on experience.

The SSA line up is a nice selection of woofers who have more apart than thermal ability.

Throughout my experiences, I've never been disappointed with SSA's customer service, and the woofers I've used.

Speaking of which, denim, I've been abusing some more Dcons for a while now. They just won't die...Stubborn little guys.

i never said the ae av was superior, i just stated my opinion that for the money it was the better deal. im not jumping denim, he is a cool guy from what ive read of his posts. just like he didnt jump me when i gave my opinion.

i have never used the dcon, but i personally would go with it over the IDQ for a good sq sub. its price is fair, they look well built, ssa in general is presented well. while i may be surprised of the performance of say the icon, maybe it is worth the extra money, but without experience i would have to guess against it. im probably wrong, but im entitled to my opinion =/

Bumpin' Goalie
09-10-2010, 07:04 PM
i never said the ae av was superior, i just stated my opinion that for the money it was the better deal. im not jumping denim, he is a cool guy from what ive read of his posts. just like he didnt jump me when i gave my opinion.

i have never used the dcon, but i personally would go with it over the IDQ for a good sq sub. its price is fair, they look well built, ssa in general is presented well. while i may be surprised of the performance of say the icon, maybe it is worth the extra money, but without experience i would have to guess against it. im probably wrong, but im entitled to my opinion =/

And I never said that you said that the AE AV was superior either :) Don't get defensive, pal. We're all friendly lol.

Everyone has their opinions lol. Won't argue that.

papermaker
09-10-2010, 07:11 PM
neither, but if i had to, icons.

two AE AV12X off 2000 watts gets just as loud as the 12" icons and are a total of $90 cheaper
AE AV15X off 1000watts gets just as loud as the 15"xcon and is $140 cheaper

i've used the AV15X fine woofer.. Efficient excellent sounding drivers but beware they like very smalll boxes and very low tunings ultimatly limiting output.. the xcon will handle almost double the power and can use larger boxes for higher efficiency.. ultmiatly the xcon is going ot get a good deal louder in the correct application..
im not sure where you got this information from but id suggest you use equpiment before you make any claims aginst another company..

Cruzer
09-10-2010, 07:47 PM
It was just an opinon bro, if u have a problem with people giving their opinons u prob shouldn't be on a forum which is for help and opinions.

papermaker
09-10-2010, 07:51 PM
oponions are like *** holes.. everyone has one.. but you recommened a woofer that might not be ideal for his application..
i just explained that you where wrong and advised you use equpiment before making someone spend money on something they might damage or not enjoy..

rsgladwin85
09-10-2010, 09:07 PM
Thanks for all the input guys. Although the other brand comparisons are appreciated, that's why I said if you "had to" choose between those two options. Because I'd already done some comparative analysis, and wanted to go with their product line. I think I'm gonna grab myself a couple of those Icons. I'm sure those will keep me happy at least for a year or so, in which time I could slowly work on doing more than just the "big 3", a bigger battery, ho alt., and a second battery in the back. If so, at that point maybe I'll upgrade to two of the Xcon 15"s or go up to 4 Icon 12"s. Who knows, what the future may hold..

Again thanks for all advice.

denim
09-10-2010, 11:10 PM
i dont use winisd to pick my product either. Without any experience of the products, i use winisd to get a general idea. just like u said it can be used for.

i do have a question to ask. if winisd cannot determine which will perform better in certain vehicles, which i do agree with you. why do you figure your product is better? just because you claim its built better, or with better parts?

a lot of times better parts just equals longer lasting.

anyways, u say ur dc and fi use different parts and their builds are very different.

yet i tested a 15 from each and they sound almost identical. and if u throw them into winisd and compare them in the same size box, same power, they look pretty identical as well.

so this just proves that while ssa make great products, does not mean its going to sound better just because its more known, or costs more.

lastly when i said they look similar, i just meant that they take the same power, have similar xmax. i didnt go into great detail because i was in a hurry and i dont even understand half the other t/s specs anyways.

also please dont forget in my original post i said i may be wrong, because i very well may be. ive been in car audio for a whole 2 years now. most of that time i just bought rockford fosgate unknowingly, without any research, or care. not until the past few months have i care to experiment, learn, care.

I never claimed our products are better. ;) In reality, there is no such thing as better, there is only "better for a particular install".

Also, by two different products (neither being ours BTW), sounding identical to your ear in the same box on the same power, it does not prove anything (only that there are too many constants in the equation). One driver may actually thrive in a larger enclosure, while one may prefer lower tuning, while one may prefer more port area, etc. etc. etc. Also, I never said just because our drivers are expensive to produce, it makes them better. ;)

As for the specs, check out BCAE1.com and I believe the12volt.com have nice and detailed explanations of the different T/S parameters.
{Edit: found a good one on SSA: http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/topic/141-ts-parameters-explained/ }

I am not trying to prove you wrong, just trying to talk through what you are getting at and maybe explain a little from our end. :)

denim
09-10-2010, 11:13 PM
I don't really see denim claiming the SSA line is superior. He is just stating facts and ideals that are accurate about the materials, and purposes of some recently common woofers.

As far as WinISD, I love it for vague comparisons, but nothing compares to hands on experience.

The SSA line up is a nice selection of woofers who have more apart than thermal ability.

Throughout my experiences, I've never been disappointed with SSA's customer service, and the woofers I've used.

Speaking of which, denim, I've been abusing some more Dcons for a while now. They just won't die...Stubborn little guys.

Thanks for the feed back, the response on the Dcon's have far surpassed what we were anticipating. :)