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SmokeyDog
07-28-2010, 07:33 PM
the rules say that you cant be in rookie class with a 6'' or bigger port, so i was told. well a kicker box you used to be able to buy a circuit city comes with a 6'' port, so does this mean that having a kicker pre fab box and 2 cvr with 1500.1 kicker amp this would put me into wc2 even know its my first show ever?

RAM_Designs
07-28-2010, 07:35 PM
TNESPL is officially ghey for this.

defj
07-28-2010, 08:04 PM
yes.do i agree with it?no.when the rule was made,aeros were not as popular in everyday setups.they were more common in the spl rides.since then,obviously,more and more people use them.i for one will be asking for a rule change in this for the upcoming season when we have our judges meeting,but still limiting them to a 6"

RAM_Designs
07-28-2010, 08:27 PM
I don't see the point in limiting aeroport size. Is there a limit on slot port size as well?

ACT Audio
07-28-2010, 10:07 PM
i don't see the point in limiting aeroport size. Is there a limit on slot port size as well?

yes

SICK GV
07-28-2010, 10:37 PM
6 is fine but 4 is retarded. It shouldnt even go up for debate. It should just be changed tonight when everyone is sleeping and we can all pretend that this ridiculous rule was never in place.

SmokeyDog
07-29-2010, 12:03 AM
6 is fine but 4 is retarded. It shouldnt even go up for debate. It should just be changed tonight when everyone is sleeping and we can all pretend that this ridiculous rule was never in place.

by the time they change it all the rookies this is affecting will be in the wc classes.

defj
07-29-2010, 04:29 AM
there is no limit on slot port size.the rule will not be changed 3/4 into the season.as far as affecting people,there have been only 2 people that i know of.i guess the reasoning is the thought that aeros are louder, and the rookie class was originally made for your everyday street beater,which you dont usually see using aeros.just keep in mind,tnespl is still a young org. which means it will have some rules that need to be situated along the way.
btw smokey,do you actually have that setup,or was it just an example?

SmokeyDog
07-29-2010, 07:02 AM
there is no limit on slot port size.the rule will not be changed 3/4 into the season.as far as affecting people,there have been only 2 people that i know of.i guess the reasoning is the thought that aeros are louder, and the rookie class was originally made for your everyday street beater,which you dont usually see using aeros.just keep in mind,tnespl is still a young org. which means it will have some rules that need to be situated along the way.
btw smokey,do you actually have that setup,or was it just an example?

set up was an example.. but my girl friend who as only been to 5 comps every and this is her first year she has even had bass in her car. she as a 6inch port and is not a aero. just a flared port and only made that way for decoration. i dont have the pic uploaded to photobucket so i cant add to this post but theres a pick of it on the tread custom sub boxes in new england. her amp is only 900 rated rms. she picked the gear and the box design her self with no help from me. i just gave her a hand hooking it all up. shes only running one sub a little yellow top batt. there is also another rookie but he has a 8'' octo port to who is haveing this problem also these 2 people have little to no idea about spl just happen to know a great box builder. yes i understand its a custom box, but not to try and gain DBz or dominate a class. it was just to look "pretty". i am trying just like everybody else to grow the sport bigger in the north east. and also get local box builders business. But the kicker prefab box i believe is a 6 inch round port with a flare it might even be 8 i had that box before and the port was huge. i dont think its far you can have a custom built box with a huge slot port and you cant get a custom box with a 6'' round port

CRXBMPN
07-29-2010, 10:01 AM
why not just make an extremely huge kerfed port? those are rounded like aero's (one one side at least) and you can circumvent the rules and have a gajillion sq in of port area, in a rounded manner...

smokey get your box fixed I wanted to see another 50 out of you at sanford but Bill said you blew it out recently and havent gained back :-/ , I am working on new amps, four of them to be exact... but that is for another thread! maybe six of those 10's in no wall?

spltuscon
07-29-2010, 10:03 AM
This is the box Derek (Smokey) is referring too. 6" PVC pipe with a "daisy flare"on the end. It's for a single 12 with 900w and the tuning is 33hz so it's definitely not a burp box.



http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs046.snc4/34685_420116127179_285118207179_4513174_4967102_n. jpg



I understand the intent of the rule but it's unfortunate that a true rookie with less than the maximum allowed equipment for the class has to run in a class where people are doing well over a 150.

defj
07-29-2010, 11:11 AM
i totally understand guys,and i will be arguing this point for next year,however i am just a judge and do not have the final say to make changes.i would like to see a 6" aero be allowed,although i think the 8" octo is a bit much for the rookie class

SmokeyDog
07-29-2010, 11:27 AM
there is no limit on slot port size.the rule will not be changed 3/4 into the season.as far as affecting people,there have been only 2 people that i know of.i guess the reasoning is the thought that aeros are louder, and the rookie class was originally made for your everyday street beater,which you dont usually see using aeros.just keep in mind,tnespl is still a young org. which means it will have some rules that need to be situated along the way.
btw smokey,do you actually have that setup,or was it just an example?

this is a everyday street beater lol

SPL Blazer
07-29-2010, 12:59 PM
I don't see the point in limiting aeroport size. Is there a limit on slot port size as well?

No, there's no limit to the size of a slot port.

SICK GV
07-29-2010, 01:16 PM
Im glad the rule is being changed but it shouldnt be there to begin with. When finals come and you see a rookie with a 10 inch wide slot port we dont wanna hear any fuss about it. If there is a bad rule in place and the majority of competitors say its poppycock then it shouldnt be an issue to just eliminate it off the rules. Its control, alt, delete or something like that. If this stays in effect till next season I say we help the rookies build the most ridiculous slot ports that put the WC class to shame lol

SPL Blazer
07-29-2010, 01:36 PM
Well like Jeremy said, it's not going to be changed this far into the season. Next season there's a chance of it, but it'll be decided in the off-season. I can understand the reason for it, it's more likely to keep someone from building a burp box and entering the rookie class. Not many rookies would build an interchangeable slot port enclosure, but they could build one for a rounded port.

defj
07-29-2010, 03:54 PM
this is a everyday street beater lol

key word in my statement smokey was usually.and i never said the rule was being changed.i said i am against it and will one of the guys pushing for the change.ultimately its only up to 1 guy

bland
07-29-2010, 10:16 PM
When this rule was made we were measuring the rookies on peak spl, and not 30 second average. Since I was a rookie at the time I just scanned my music and found 3 seconds in a song with my frequency and would just shut it down after playing that note.

Now that they are on a 30 second average the port size doesn't matter as much anymore. With a 6" port they're going to have learn about loading or thing will be burning up really quick.

Maybe make the rule with a 6 inch internal only. There's not many prefab boxes with external ports.

defj
07-29-2010, 10:45 PM
good point dave,i wasnt even thinking of that point

SmokeyDog
07-30-2010, 09:44 AM
key word in my statement smokey was usually.and i never said the rule was being changed.i said i am against it and will one of the guys pushing for the change.ultimately its only up to 1 guy
i understand that usually. was just saying that this box was not ment to be a burp box it was built as a music box for everyday use. plus it cant be switched out,and i am not asking for it to be changed just trying to help bring it to someone attention. i see this as a deterrent for new comers fresh in the sport. where they half to run in wc class

SICK GV
07-30-2010, 12:03 PM
Since our shop is known for building spl, most of our customers that come in get custom boxes. Some get internal ports..others get external. Prefab boxes are for cheap ****** lol

defj
07-30-2010, 11:11 PM
Since our shop is known for building spl, most of our customers that come in get custom boxes. Some get internal ports..others get external. Prefab boxes are for cheap ****** lol

agreed.i make good money building boxes,lol

RAM_Designs
07-30-2010, 11:18 PM
Well like Jeremy said, it's not going to be changed this far into the season. Next season there's a chance of it, but it'll be decided in the off-season. I can understand the reason for it, it's more likely to keep someone from building a burp box and entering the rookie class. Not many rookies would build an interchangeable slot port enclosure, but they could build one for a rounded port.

I always just built completely different burp boxes with a slot port, and I knew of a lot of first timers(after a couple shows) that started building strictly burp boxes. IMO if you aren't making a burp box, you aren't trying hard enough to win...even in rookie class :D

SICK GV
07-30-2010, 11:55 PM
Couldn't agree with you more

thorshammer1
07-31-2010, 07:25 PM
My rookie yr i competed against rex's 5k-14k setups and got my *** handed to me by 10db or more lol I understand the disgruntlement but rules are rules and are not meant to be circumvented.

Things can and do change in the off season. :)

hispls
08-01-2010, 12:12 PM
The Kicker prefab box has a 7" port on it for the record (measured one last weekend).

I mentioned this in another thread that it seemed silly as did limiting box size. Someone with say 3 10" subs in a 9 cube box with 180" of port area (slot port) or 3 4" round ports would compete with a single 15" sub in 3 cube with a single 4" round port.

The other thing I'd say take a look at is that many actual rookies are using amps that are grossly over-rated and are dumped into WC classes (where most of the real competitors are using amps rated to do 6500W+ * like the AB 500.1*).

Personally I've seen more people excluded from Rookie classes that ought to be there than people that shouldn't be there being kept out by the current limitations. Perhaps the rookie class should be more vague guidelines with judges on site having more leeway to make exceptions to keep with the intent of the class.

SPL Blazer
08-01-2010, 09:07 PM
Personally I've seen more people excluded from Rookie classes that ought to be there than people that shouldn't be there being kept out by the current limitations. Perhaps the rookie class should be more vague guidelines with judges on site having more leeway to make exceptions to keep with the intent of the class.

It's not a bad idea, but it also creates more headaches for the judges and for competitors. One competitor comes up with an amp rated for 2K that does 2K, and another comes up with an amp rated for 2K but really does 2500, you get the guy with the real 2K amp crying because he "knows" the other guys amp really does more, but has no proof on hand to back up his claims. With no proof of the actual output of either amp it's left up to the judge to say who's amp really belongs, so what if the judge has no idea which amp is over rated or under rated? I'm more that happy to judge a show for people, but I'm not going to spend my nights researching the many amps out there to see what each ones rated at and actually puts out. It's pretty easy for a competitor to turn into a little b*tch when he knows he's going to lose to someone else, giving them the chance to complain about the other guys rated power and actual power is just going to make things worse.

A little leeway can be a good thing, but sometimes it's not. It's best to just stick with the rules as they're written and learn how to get louder within those rules.That way one competitor won't go to a couple TNE shows run by two different judgeswith the same system and be put into a different class each time they compete.

defj
08-01-2010, 09:58 PM
The Kicker prefab box has a 7" port on it for the record (measured one last weekend).

I mentioned this in another thread that it seemed silly as did limiting box size. Someone with say 3 10" subs in a 9 cube box with 180" of port area (slot port) or 3 4" round ports would compete with a single 15" sub in 3 cube with a single 4" round port.

The other thing I'd say take a look at is that many actual rookies are using amps that are grossly over-rated and are dumped into WC classes (where most of the real competitors are using amps rated to do 6500W+ * like the AB 500.1*).

Personally I've seen more people excluded from Rookie classes that ought to be there than people that shouldn't be there being kept out by the current limitations. Perhaps the rookie class should be more vague guidelines with judges on site having more leeway to make exceptions to keep with the intent of the class.

a person with 3 10s would not be in the same class as a person with 1 15,but i get your point.and a ab 500.1 should not be allowed in the WC classes,its clearly rated at 6500 rms on the website.also giving judges leeway just wouldnt work.too many different outlooks/opinions on things would make it complicated.rules are rules and they are put in place for a reason.in every organization,there will be rules that are unfair to someone,its just the way it is,unless you want 20+classes to make sure nobody is bit in the ***,certain sacrifices have to be made

SPL Blazer
08-01-2010, 10:12 PM
a person with 3 10s would not be in the same class as a person with 1 15,but i get your point.and a ab 500.1 should not be allowed in the WC classes,its clearly rated at 6500 rms on the website.also giving judges leeway just wouldnt work.too many different outlooks/opinions on things would make it complicated.rules are rules and they are put in place for a reason.in every organization,there will be rules that are unfair to someone,its just the way it is,unless you want 20+classes to make sure nobody is bit in the ***,certain sacrifices have to be made

I was under the impression that these amps were a 5K amp, I never checked their site to see they are rated at 6500 watts.

hispls
08-01-2010, 11:09 PM
I was under the impression that these amps were a 5K amp, I never checked their site to see they are rated at 6500 watts.

the number 6500 is on their website ;)

As for grossly over-rated amps I'm talking about guys with the Lanzar Vibe type amps, and yeah, the only way to really make it even is to clamp power during a run (which I hear some regional orgs do).

Anyway, the box size and port limitations are silly as-is .

defj
08-01-2010, 11:49 PM
just build to what is allowed,thats all you can do.i somewhat agree with u,im ok with 3cube per sub,but think something should be done about the aero rule.there is always a rule someone isnt going to like,and all u can do is get over it and build with the tools you are given

bland
08-01-2010, 11:56 PM
a person with 3 10s would not be in the same class as a person with 1 15,but i get your point.and a ab 500.1 should not be allowed in the WC classes,its clearly rated at 6500 rms on the website.also giving judges leeway just wouldnt work.too many different outlooks/opinions on things would make it complicated.rules are rules and they are put in place for a reason.in every organization,there will be rules that are unfair to someone,its just the way it is,unless you want 20+classes to make sure nobody is bit in the ***,certain sacrifices have to be made

If you have a chance contact Karl Stacey. I think this is the amp he's been wiating for all season, and he's under the impression it's a 5k amp.

Funny that AB put 6500 on there. They have always underrated their amps.

hispls
08-02-2010, 12:25 AM
just build to what is allowed,thats all you can do.i somewhat agree with u,im ok with 3cube per sub,but think something should be done about the aero rule.there is always a rule someone isnt going to like,and all u can do is get over it and build with the tools you are given

The point is the guy just showing up for his first show ever isn't building around anything, they just show up with whatever. People who build around the rules can certainly get great results within the limitations of the class, I've done so myself with good results.

My thought on the 3 cube per sub is the same as 4" port per driver....unless the point is to exclude woofers over 12" as this severely limits the usefulness of larger woofers.

hispls
08-02-2010, 12:26 AM
If you have a chance contact Karl Stacey. I think this is the amp he's been wiating for all season, and he's under the impression it's a 5k amp.

Funny that AB put 6500 on there. They have always underrated their amps.

Don't know who he is and really I wasn't going to make a big deal about it particularly since I'm not going to be spending any time in WC class. I suspect that amp is somewhat under-rated at 6500.

spltuscon
08-02-2010, 08:18 AM
AB really just has a bad website, they should add all the specs in there so that their amp don't get placed in higher classing then they belong. That amp will only do 6500w with 16 volts. Its good for a little over 5k at 14.4 (rated 4800 iirc) and more like 4200 at 12v. That's 1 ohm output which is as low as they rate it, like most good amps you can drop it down to about .25 and squeeze some extra out of it but without clamping everyone it would be way to hard to limit the class by "potential power"

RAM_Designs
08-02-2010, 08:55 AM
Box size rule too? I guess if you're running 15" or bigger subs you need to be running a lot of power too...

thorshammer1
08-02-2010, 11:09 AM
What I'm reading is the disgruntlement of one competitor vs the majority that except and abide by the rules.

Yes it is unfortunate when we have to class a small system into the wc classes. Thats just the way it is.

When questioning amps or if there is any doubt as to the validity of the amp per class there is a formula that we can use. Take the amps fused rating multply by 12.4v. I've read the specs on the ab 500.1(manual) and the 6500 is at 18v not 14.4 or less.

I just gotta ask.....hispl what do you gain by bashing on TNE and thier rules? Yes you got bumped and yes you won the wc3 class you were put in. Why continue the onslaught on the rookie rules?

thorshammer1
08-02-2010, 11:11 AM
Box size rule too? I guess if you're running 15" or bigger subs you need to be running a lot of power too...

Who are you and why are you questioning an organization that is not apart of your world?

thorshammer1
08-02-2010, 11:13 AM
The point is the guy just showing up for his first show ever isn't building around anything, they just show up with whatever. People who build around the rules can certainly get great results within the limitations of the class, I've done so myself with good results.

My thought on the 3 cube per sub is the same as 4" port per driver....unless the point is to exclude woofers over 12" as this severely limits the usefulness of larger woofers.

Pretty much any 15 on the market will do quite well in 3cu per sub after displacement.

SPL Blazer
08-02-2010, 02:12 PM
The 3 cube rule is good for 98% of rookie competitors, most don't run anything larger than a 15" sub and the 3 cubes work just fine. We do have a couple rookies around here that run an 18" sub, and those won't work in only 3 cubes. Unfortunately for them they have no choice but to go to the WC classes or a music class, which is what they do. I don't think the rule serves any useful purpose, but it is a rule regardless. It's not up to any of us to change it, just enforce it.

Mr. Slate
08-03-2010, 12:47 AM
One of my very first stock boxes (as a rookie) was 8 12s.

hispls
08-06-2010, 10:24 AM
What I'm reading is the disgruntlement of one competitor vs the majority that except and abide by the rules.

Yes it is unfortunate when we have to class a small system into the wc classes. Thats just the way it is.

When questioning amps or if there is any doubt as to the validity of the amp per class there is a formula that we can use. Take the amps fused rating multply by 12.4v. I've read the specs on the ab 500.1(manual) and the 6500 is at 18v not 14.4 or less.

I just gotta ask.....hispl what do you gain by bashing on TNE and thier rules? Yes you got bumped and yes you won the wc3 class you were put in. Why continue the onslaught on the rookie rules?

Notice I didn't start this thread, I'm just agreeing with OP and again raising questions I had before I ever even showed up to a comp this year. Don't take it as bashing, I've had a great time at all your shows so far and AFAIK everyone else is doing the same. To be honest I'd have probably never showed up to a show at all if it weren't for the rookie class though, so from my POV having it more inclusive of genuine first time competitors would benefit all.

I'm in for one or two more comps this year period one way or another (not sure if any of them are even TNESPL) Just too much other stuff to do before summer is over... and will be in WC pro probably next year if I find time to hit any shows so it doesn't matter to me either way, but if the rules are still new enough to be open for modification I'm just chiming in on the discussion. If none of the rules are subject to change or revision just say so and nobody will waste time discussing potential revisions.