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View Full Version : Best Speakers for warm natural sound but do not sound like crap with mp3's



flightz71
07-09-2010, 04:50 PM
Hey guys,

I'm looking to do a set of 6.5" components for my 98 Supra.

Price does not matter, as long as it sounds like how I want it to.

I currently own some top notch speakers... Focal K2Power 165 KRX2 in my M3, but the highs are just wayyyy too harsh. I like how music sounds richer when you crank up the treble and bass on the HU (I have a W505) as well as turn on the "loudness" button. These speakers though play just wayyy too bright. If I leave the bass and treble flat... the music has no depth and sounds very bland. Moreover... the KRX2's just don't get low... if I run a full range (no crossover) signal to the speakers... they distort at higher volumes. The midbass is very punchy but I want to hear the deep hum's type of bass... the kind you hear when you turn the bass knob up on factory systems... not the pounding. Finally, these speakers are as detailed as everyone says but at the expensive of fatigue on my ears.

With this said... I want my new ones that:

Don't sound like crap with 192k mp3's.

Can play lowwww... I really like on factory systems like in the G37/e46 M3 you get even 50Hz coming from the doors and how the bump and you can feel the vibrations / hum from the bass instead of all the way back from the sub.

Ones where I don't need to change the EQ on every **** song. I want it similar to a factory system where just turning up the volume gets me more music instead of the tweeter threathen to deaf me and the bass response pounding so hard it's going to give me a headache. (obviously due to the fact that both the treble and bass are turned up... but again without them the music sounds flat and bland due to the mp3's)

I heard more expensive speakers pronouce the flaws in mp3's more so I'm guessing I need a more low end speaker to achieve what I'm looking for? Honestly... even the factory bose system in my brother's RSX sounds "better" (just no low end) than my $3500 system in my M3. I feel like many factory systems make me content (the M3 one was supar which is why I upgraded) when I went all out and did the best (W505, KRX2, JL 450/4, 500/1, 10W6v2) I just gave myself more problems that I started with.

I know i'm a bit vague and untechnical in my description but just looking for some input.

I was just looking as stuff like:

Polk Audio - db Series - Mobile / Marie Speakers (http://www.polkaudio.com/caraudio/db/index.php?s=db6501)

I figure a more budget style speaker might fit what I'm looking for.

misfit138
07-09-2010, 04:56 PM
Hey guys,

Can play lowwww... I really like on factory systems like in the G37/e46 M3 you get even 50Hz coming from the doors and how the bump and you can feel the vibrations / hum from the bass instead of all the way back from the sub.

You shouldn't be able to hear "where" your bass is coming from. :fyi:

hatedonmostly
07-09-2010, 05:10 PM
you turn your bass and treble all the way up? seriously?
you turn the loudness setting on? seriously?
tweeters are too harsh? have you tried turning the attenuation down?
midbass isn't' punchy? are your doors deadened?
sounds good with 192 kbps mp3s? seriously?
you want mids that play down to 50 hz? seriously?
you like to hear the bass coming from behind you? seriously?
troll? or just a epic fail thread?

bubbagumper6
07-09-2010, 05:11 PM
you turn your bass and treble all the way up? seriously?
you turn the loudness setting on? seriously?
tweeters are too harsh? have you tried turning the attenuation down?
midbass isn't' punchy? are your doors deadened?
sounds good with 192 kbps mp3s? seriously?
you want mids that play down to 50 hz? seriously?
you like to hear the bass coming from behind you? seriously?
troll? or just a epic fail thread?

seriously bro

hatedonmostly
07-09-2010, 05:11 PM
seriously bro

i mad

bubbagumper6
07-09-2010, 05:12 PM
i mad

way mad bro

hatedonmostly
07-09-2010, 05:14 PM
fierce mad

bubbagumper6
07-09-2010, 05:15 PM
fierce mad

http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/4695/shenanigansw.jpg

misfit138
07-09-2010, 05:19 PM
**** it. Now I'm mad too.

Bumpin' Goalie
07-09-2010, 05:20 PM
I'm just fine over here....










Wait...










Now I mad.

hatedonmostly
07-09-2010, 05:22 PM
we mad bros. :fyi:

DerekSmith07
07-09-2010, 05:23 PM
if you havent done any deadening
SSDP: Damplifier Pro - Automotive Sound Deadener CLD Vibration damping mat - See what all the fuss is about (http://secondskinaudio.com/vibration-mat/damplifier-pro.php)
speaker tweaker kit: Second Skin Sound Deadening - Speaker Tweaker Rear Wave Defraction Pads (http://secondskinaudio.com/sound-deadening-materials/speaker-tweaker-kit.php)
LLP: Luxury Liner - Acoustic Noise Barrier and Insulation Barrier (http://secondskinaudio.com/noise-barrier/Luxury-Liner-Pro.php)

Bumpin' Goalie
07-09-2010, 05:25 PM
we mad bros. :fyi:

Riot?

emilimo701
07-09-2010, 07:40 PM
it's not your speakers...

buy an AMP

you can perceive the loss form a 192kbps mp3 off your head unit? really?

misfit138
07-09-2010, 07:42 PM
I'm still furious. :fyi:

emilimo701
07-09-2010, 07:43 PM
but if you're dead set on different speakers... try out the rockford fosgate power components, they have a slight smile response curve, similar to what the "loud" button does on your head unit, and will take 100w RMS for the amp you're going to get

misfit138
07-09-2010, 07:47 PM
but if you're dead set on different speakers... try out the rockford fosgate power components, they have a slight smile response curve, similar to what the "loud" button does on your head unit, and will take 100w RMS for the amp you're going to get

You've got to be kidding. This dude is running a set of high end Focals and you're recommending RF Power Series? Dude, I run T152S'. They're alright if you can find them on the cheap, but they're no comparison to the speakers the OP is claiming to own...

emilimo701
07-09-2010, 08:03 PM
You've got to be kidding. This dude is running a set of high end Focals and you're recommending RF Power Series? Dude, I run T152S'. They're alright if you can find them on the cheap, but they're no comparison to the speakers the OP is claiming to own...

lol well he seems wanting to downgrade... i mean he was considering polk db comps. would probably get some cash back from the focals, money he could put towards an amp, or beer, or whatever

flightz71
07-09-2010, 08:04 PM
you turn your bass and treble all the way up? seriously?
you turn the loudness setting on? seriously?
tweeters are too harsh? have you tried turning the attenuation down?
midbass isn't' punchy? are your doors deadened?
sounds good with 192 kbps mp3s? seriously?
you want mids that play down to 50 hz? seriously?
you like to hear the bass coming from behind you? seriously?
troll? or just a epic fail thread?

lol now I feel kind of retarded... but

Yes... not all the way up... but +5 bass and +3 treble
Loudness - yes... w/o it I can't hear 1/2 the bass and treble notes with the volume down
Tweeters - -6dB, mounted in the factory harman kardon location next to door handle
midbass - doors dynamatted, wooden baffles made to create a solid mount, rear sealed from front
mp3s - they sound good in my 4runner with pos jbl factory speakers... so i can't see why not. Again I was told high end speakers make mp3s sound like ****
Playing low - Yes... the factory harman kardon's can play down to 50 and thump hard. I was perfectly content with the system but they cannot play loud without blowing/distorting. Speakers in my 4runner play low too... no sub in the system but I can hear everything I want to hear. Ok maybe it's not bass I want to hear? Something closer to around 125hz. Pretty much I want to hear the hum type of bass... but all I'm getting is the pound you get from a sub. With the crossovers switched to 70-80Hz... sounds even worse... all bass from from rear of car and not blending in the front (fronts sound weak as ****)
Finally... NO! I want to hear/feel bass from the front stage of the car... like in every other **** car I've been in... not the annoying boomy pound from the trunk.

It's not just me that is crazy... all my buddies attest to the fact that even though my system can play louder with no distortion, more crystal clear... I have lost loads of bass/midbass (again the HUM type of bass!... not that ghetto e40/nelly pounding kind) as well as some midrange (makes sense since i went from a factory 3-way to a 2-way with the midrange in the doors instead of up high now)

emilimo701
07-09-2010, 08:13 PM
install a subwoofer. if done properly, it really won't sound like it's coming from the back of your car. there is no magical set of components that go significantly lower than the rest

before i put in my sub, my alpine type R's put out decent midbass that would shake my mirrors. and according to the specs, type X's go even lower. maybe try those out. but if you're really picky about your bass, you'll need a dedicated subwoofer. there aren't many ways around it

emilimo701
07-09-2010, 08:13 PM
...

Bumpin' Goalie
07-09-2010, 08:29 PM
OP wants 80-120 it seems to me.

RE XXX comps. A LOT of linear movement fora 6.5 component. Sound good, get lower than many.

Also, many cars stock setups have the "bass" sounding as if it's from the rears. Sometimes it's intentional. Other times, it's not.

I personally only run fronts. No rears, no rear fill, nothing. Focals up front. SSA Dcons in the back. Blends like a dream crossed ~85hz, sounds great, no real directional problems.

KyleBechtold
07-09-2010, 08:29 PM
the reason you hear more bass from a stock set of speakers is they play full range versus just playing mids and highs. Aftermarket speakers are made to play with subs not against them by playing above their frequency to combine to make a full sound rather than cancellation

Bumpin' Goalie
07-09-2010, 08:31 PM
the reason you here more bass from a stock set of speakers is they play full range versus just playing mids and highs. Aftermarket speakers are made to play with subs not against them by playing above their frequency to combine to make a full sound rather than cancellation

^This. Also why they can distort easy. Trying to play 30hz while playing everything else. Not fun for the stock equipment.

Bumpin' Goalie
07-09-2010, 08:31 PM
Dbl Post. Site lag is killing me.

RAM_Designs
07-09-2010, 08:33 PM
How are your Focals being amplified? What amp specifically? If the tweeters are too harsh for you, there are attenuation buttons on the crossovers that can cut the tweeter level down -1 to -7db, at least my K2P's did 4-5 years ago.

Get a solid 200 watts running to each side, doors deadened, and you'll probably see a difference and not need to use the loudness and other boosting features that just add distortion at higher volumes.

Bumpin' Goalie
07-09-2010, 08:35 PM
How are your Focals being amplified? What amp specifically? If the tweeters are too harsh for you, there are attenuation buttons on the crossovers that can cut the tweeter level down -1 to -7db, at least my K2P's did 4-5 years ago.

Get a solid 200 watts running to each side, doors deadened, and you'll probably see a difference and not need to use the loudness and other boosting features that just add distortion at higher volumes.

OP mentioned earlier that doors are deadened, with wooden baffles being used. Tweeters are at -6db. Loudness is on. Etc.

Good advise nonetheless for all readers.

RAM_Designs
07-09-2010, 09:55 PM
OP mentioned earlier that doors are deadened, with wooden baffles being used. Tweeters are at -6db. Loudness is on. Etc.

Good advise nonetheless for all readers.

Haha, I must have missed all of that. If I were him I'd bridge that 450/4 and have plenty of headroom for each side.

OP: burn the Focal Tools disc over at diymobileaudio.com(just search for it, you'll find it), play the sample tones they give you, and simply use your EQ on your radio to only cut the frequencies that seem too loud to you. An easy way is to start off with the lowest one, and spend maybe a second on each one as you're going from track to track. That way you can easily tell where you have unwanted peaks in your response curve. Correct those peaks and you'll be able to turn your music louder without it seeming harsh, and because of that hopefully have a more pleasing experience at high volumes. I did this and it worked magic on helping me get rid of a couple nuisances.

emilimo701
07-09-2010, 10:01 PM
the reason you hear more bass from a stock set of speakers is they play full range versus just playing mids and highs. Aftermarket speakers are made to play with subs not against them by playing above their frequency to combine to make a full sound rather than cancellation

components canceling out subwoofer getting up to 10x (or more) the power? seriously?

RAM_Designs
07-09-2010, 10:38 PM
components canceling out subwoofer getting up to 10x (or more) the power? seriously?

I can tell by messing with crossover settings with my setup.

flightz71
07-09-2010, 11:20 PM
Haha, I must have missed all of that. If I were him I'd bridge that 450/4 and have plenty of headroom for each side.

OP: burn the Focal Tools disc over at diymobileaudio.com(just search for it, you'll find it), play the sample tones they give you, and simply use your EQ on your radio to only cut the frequencies that seem too loud to you. An easy way is to start off with the lowest one, and spend maybe a second on each one as you're going from track to track. That way you can easily tell where you have unwanted peaks in your response curve. Correct those peaks and you'll be able to turn your music louder without it seeming harsh, and because of that hopefully have a more pleasing experience at high volumes. I did this and it worked magic on helping me get rid of a couple nuisances.

Wow I started this thread just looking for some speakers... didn't know I would get some much feedback...lol.

Honestly do you guys love your TN52/TN53K tweeters? They just sound so **** bright at -6dB with any treble boost at all. At -3 or 0dB and no treble boost... same thing... bright but now music lacks life.

Anyhow... I'm driving 150W to each side. Only thing I can think of now is I soldered 14g wire onto a tiny gold molex pin connector to plug into the factory thin 16G h/k wiring... Can that be my problem? Also the speaker wire i used is the silver kind... I heard that might make music sound brighter?

Anyhow... I might just try bypassing all the h/k wiring and run straight copper 14G directly from crossovers to mids and tweeters... I'm sure the 150W i'm giving is more than enough now.

Also another thing that confuses me... even though I have a 150W amp... my gains are set low and only need to set the HU at like volume 10/30 and they're plenty loud already. If I turn off bass and treble boost as well as loudness i'm probably around volume 15-17/30. With this said... doesn't that mean I'm not utilizing anything close to 150W?

Thx again for your input

-Calvin

FlexnInLa
07-12-2010, 04:43 PM
it's not your speakers...

buy an AMP

you can perceive the loss form a 192kbps mp3 off your head unit? really?

There was a study on one of my 2 channel audio forums, serious audiophiles with 100k plus 2 channel systems couldn't accurately detect loss from a Variable Bit Rate MP3. Anything I rip, I rip VBR. 192k is as low as I'll go on an MP3 I didn't rip, I can't tell the difference between 192k MP3 and 24-96k FLAC unless I listen to them almost side by side.

moreisbetter
07-28-2010, 04:56 AM
I have a similar setup as yours. 2004 M3, Factory Deck, KR2, JL 300/4, 1000/1, 12W6v2

You want warm sound? At first I went from HK factory to CDT CL-E61CV. These have nice silk tweeters and are very warm. I've had nothing but bright speakers (Previous speakers: Infinity Kappa Perfects, MB Quarts Q218.61) in the past. You ask anyone about the Kappa Perfects and the Q218.61 and people will tell you they are bright bright bright. These all have something in common, they are all metal tweeters( except KR2 ). Go get yourself some silks.

You want loud? I had a ppi 125Wx4 and gave my Q218.61(86db) each 250W. The KR2(93db) plays louder with the JL 300/4, and thats only 75W. Look for the sensitivity ratings. The KRX2 are one of the loudest speakers you can find. So look for something with a 92db or higher.

You want 6.5s that plays low? I had a shop installed my KR2 because I was lazy and they turned on the low pass on my amp, which was previously set to full-range. When I first listened to the speakers, I was disappointed because I felt it lacks the low 60-80hz, and it was only the next day that I discovered it. Turn your filters to full range. If you still aren't happy, you won't get what you are looking for with any other aftermarket speakers unfortunately. Of course there's the more expensive option. Get some custom work and have someone make a fiberglass enclosure and put 8" woofers in the door.

You like the sound of the factory HK? If you like muddy bass, you might have a problem because you won't find a speaker that'll intentionally give you that muddy bass. I couldn't stand the factory HK. Hitting a stick on a rock sounds better.

The KR2 was very bright for me in the beginning because of the low pass. Now that I turned off the low pass, they sound even. I still miss the warm sound from the CDT though. In fact, for the first couple of days I wanted to put the CDT back. After playing quite a few songs, I noticed that I like some songs more with the KR2, and other songs more with the CDT. Right now the KR2 plays a little over half of the songs I listened to better than the CDT. Overall my sound system feels full and detailed now. Also, remember that just because a set of speaker is expensive, doesn't mean you'll like them more than the cheaper speakers. Don't be afraid to listen to cheaper speakers. I liked the CDT almost as much as the Focal, and the CDT is 1/5 of the price. I just wish the dealers here carry CDTs, I'm pretty sure I would've liked the higher end ones better. You win some, you loose some.

ramos
07-28-2010, 10:19 AM
ahhh someone with the same dislike for focal tweeters that I have. Focal tweets have always sounded overly bright and harsh to me. :)

FlexnInLa
07-28-2010, 02:31 PM
it's not your speakers...

buy an AMP

you can perceive the loss form a 192kbps mp3 off your head unit? really?

Considering the best "ears" in audio can't detect loss in a VBR MP3, in 2 channel systems that run over 100,000.00, which goes WAY below 192kbps at times, I highly doubt it. If anybody wants to know the right way to rip an MP3 just send me a PM.

emilimo701
07-28-2010, 02:46 PM
There was a study on one of my 2 channel audio forums, serious audiophiles with 100k plus 2 channel systems couldn't accurately detect loss from a Variable Bit Rate MP3. Anything I rip, I rip VBR. 192k is as low as I'll go on an MP3 I didn't rip, I can't tell the difference between 192k MP3 and 24-96k FLAC unless I listen to them almost side by side.

thank you. this was exactly my point

trabadoor22
07-30-2010, 08:31 PM
I would highly recommend turning the loudness off on your amp and turning the stereo to flat, bass 0, treble 0. I know you said you have had it at this setting before, but play with it a little more. Then play with the crossover settings on the amp along with the tweeter settings. If you have any eq ability either on your hu or amp try using those to help. Also I'm willing to bet that your hu is not that great for sq. I ditched Alpine a long time ago for Eclipse and haven't looked back. You may not want to do this, but a properly set up sub woofer can sound amazing and will help fill the low frequency void along with allowing you to put less stress on your speakers. If all else fails then get a different set. Everyone has different tastes when it comes to sound and each speaker sounds different. For instance I had a set of Dynaudio ms170's that I sold to go back to a set of Jl xr's. Just wasn't what I was looking for, but alot of people love them. Just realize that there is no magic speaker, the magic comes from all the set up and installation.

FlexnInLa
07-30-2010, 08:39 PM
I would highly recommend turning the loudness off on your amp and turning the stereo to flat, bass 0, treble 0. I know you said you have had it at this setting before, but play with it a little more. Then play with the crossover settings on the amp along with the tweeter settings. If you have any eq ability either on your hu or amp try using those to help. Also I'm willing to bet that your hu is not that great for sq. I ditched Alpine a long time ago for Eclipse and haven't looked back. You may not want to do this, but a properly set up sub woofer can sound amazing and will help fill the low frequency void along with allowing you to put less stress on your speakers. If all else fails then get a different set. Everyone has different tastes when it comes to sound and each speaker sounds different. For instance I had a set of Dynaudio ms170's that I sold to go back to a set of Jl xr's. Just wasn't what I was looking for, but alot of people love them. Just realize that there is no magic speaker, the magic comes from all the set up and installation.

Exactly, everyone has different tastes. I have lost a LOT of high end hearing from playing in bands since I was a kid, but still can't stand harsh treble, even though my hearing charts say I can't hear much of it lol. And there are magic speakers, they are the ones that sound best to YOU! AQ said it right when they said components are like guitar amps, everybody has their own taste. Few people like a perfectly flat response, even though that would be the "ideal." I like a "west coast" i.e. JBL, Pioneer HPM bump in my speakers... if anybody is in to vintage audio they will know what I'm talking about.