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hispls
06-21-2010, 01:55 PM
OK, I have an amp coming that'll have me competitive in the Rookie class for probably the rest of the season.

I notice the rules are maximum 3 cube box volume. Now the question being if someone were to run a single 18, which IMO isn't unreasonable for a first timer how would anyone do that in a 3 foot box?

Also assuming I just do up a 15, (which still wouldn't work well in 3 cube), will this calculation take into account displacement of port, bracing, and driver? How can such a measurement be taken accurately?

And why unlimited size slot port and a limit on round ports?

hispls
06-21-2010, 02:35 PM
Furthermore, what does an octo-port count as?

hispls
06-22-2010, 12:45 PM
Nobody? I'm really looking to get something built this week...

TeamElite-Mike
06-22-2010, 01:55 PM
You'll have better luck asking on the teamnortheast forums then here

hispls
06-22-2010, 04:01 PM
You'll have better luck asking on the teamnortheast forums then here

I signed up the other day and still awaiting email confirmation link.

SPL Blazer
06-22-2010, 09:39 PM
I'll email Brandon and see whats up with your confirmation email, mine never came so I had him bypass it for me.

SPL140.2
06-22-2010, 09:46 PM
make the box 3 cubes than invert your sub

SPL Blazer
06-22-2010, 09:49 PM
I notice the rules are maximum 3 cube box volume. Now the question being if someone were to run a single 18, which IMO isn't unreasonable for a first timer how would anyone do that in a 3 foot box?

Also assuming I just do up a 15, (which still wouldn't work well in 3 cube), will this calculation take into account displacement of port, bracing, and driver? How can such a measurement be taken accurately?

And why unlimited size slot port and a limit on round ports?

A 3 cube limit is what is in the rules, if you can find an 18" that will work in that limited of a space then go for it, but I don't think you'll find it. You'd have better luck with a single 15" in 3 cubes, if your running the right sub it'll work. My 15" DC XL's are being put into 3 cubes each.

As far as measurements, it will be taken by measuring the enclosure and calculating the port displacement, sub displacements are all roughly the same. If your enclosure comes out to be 3.1 cubes I don't think there would be an issue, at least not at any single point events. If you want to try for Finals then you'd want to make sure it's at 3.0 cu ft, but you'll also want to buy your membership now since you are required to be a member within 14 days of an event to keep your points.

I believe the round ports are limited in size because you'll get louder using them over slot ports. Just my opinion. It's rare to see anyone really loud using a slot port in an enclosure.

hispls
06-23-2010, 11:31 AM
A 3 cube limit is what is in the rules, if you can find an 18" that will work in that limited of a space then go for it, but I don't think you'll find it. You'd have better luck with a single 15" in 3 cubes, if your running the right sub it'll work. My 15" DC XL's are being put into 3 cubes each.

As far as measurements, it will be taken by measuring the enclosure and calculating the port displacement, sub displacements are all roughly the same. If your enclosure comes out to be 3.1 cubes I don't think there would be an issue, at least not at any single point events. If you want to try for Finals then you'd want to make sure it's at 3.0 cu ft, but you'll also want to buy your membership now since you are required to be a member within 14 days of an event to keep your points.

I believe the round ports are limited in size because you'll get louder using them over slot ports. Just my opinion. It's rare to see anyone really loud using a slot port in an enclosure.

Don't care about points.

I find it hard to believe you can't beat a single 4" port with say 80 sqin of slot port.

I will do either 1 or 2 15's at this point, but it seems that their size categories don't really make any sense with those restrictions on box and port size.

hispls
06-23-2010, 11:32 AM
make the box 3 cubes than invert your sub

With the 24" from the back wall and 25" height limit it's not likely to happen.

spltuscon
06-23-2010, 11:53 AM
Single 15 in 3ft3 with large slot port should work best. A lot of 15's will work well in under 3ft3 as long as it's not on a low power application.
Pair of 12's in same size box would probably do slightly better though, but if you're wanting to work with what you've got, then just try a single 15.

spltuscon
06-23-2010, 11:53 AM
Single 15 in 3ft3 with large slot port should work best. A lot of 15's will work well in under 3ft3 as long as it's not on a low power application.
Pair of 12's in same size box would probably do slightly better though, but if you're wanting to work with what you've got, then just try a single 15.

hispls
06-23-2010, 12:01 PM
Single 15 in 3ft3 with large slot port should work best. A lot of 15's will work well in under 3ft3 as long as it's not on a low power application.
Pair of 12's in same size box would probably do slightly better though, but if you're wanting to work with what you've got, then just try a single 15.

This IS a low power application since it's limited to 2KW. Haven't decided whether I'll do single 15 or a pair. If Jacob would get back to me on recone parts I'd use 3 15's

Speaking of which, do you know anybody who might be in the market for the box you made for me? The box you made is really not my style. Nice looking solidly built all-arounder, but I'm looking to go all out one way or another, either tune to 55hz where I peak or tune to 30ish for lowz. I put up a 149.1 last weekend and I think that's about the limit without risking smoking amps, and even if I ran the amps to dangerous impedence I doubt I'd see 150.....not in the jeep anyway. This needs a LONGER car that peaks closer to 45 and it would be a monster.

hispls
06-23-2010, 12:01 PM
Single 15 in 3ft3 with large slot port should work best. A lot of 15's will work well in under 3ft3 as long as it's not on a low power application.
Pair of 12's in same size box would probably do slightly better though, but if you're wanting to work with what you've got, then just try a single 15.

This IS a low power application since it's limited to 2KW. Haven't decided whether I'll do single 15 or a pair. If Jacob would get back to me on recone parts I'd use 3 15's

Speaking of which, do you know anybody who might be in the market for the box you made for me? The box you made is really not my style. Nice looking solidly built all-arounder, but I'm looking to go all out one way or another, either tune to 55hz where I peak or tune to 30ish for lowz. I put up a 149.1 last weekend and I think that's about the limit without risking smoking amps, and even if I ran the amps to dangerous impedence I doubt I'd see 150.....not in the jeep anyway. This needs a LONGER car that peaks closer to 45 and it would be a monster.

spltuscon
06-23-2010, 01:00 PM
I just re-read the rules and realized that it's 3ft per sub not total, so in that case I would run a pair of fifteens. If you're doing rookie class you should try with that box first because I think you would put up very respectable numbers with it. The record for Rookie 3 is a 142.4. On one of your 2k amps I think you could beat that. The tuning is also perfect for loud music numbers as opposed to burping since that's what you originally wanted anyway. If you go to 55hz for tuning you won't find much music to do a good number with.

For what it's worth, the same design (only not as strong of a build) is doing over a 150 legal with a 4k amp in another competitors truck. Granted it's not the same exact vehicle, but very close acoustically.

As far as someone else in the market for the box, I don't know of anyone at the moment. If it were 2" less deep I would love to run it in my truck.

SPL Blazer
06-23-2010, 01:04 PM
With the 24" from the back wall and 25" height limit it's not likely to happen.

There is no 24" rule, but there is a 25" rule and that only applies to extended cab pick ups, not SUV's. So the only limit you have in TNESPL is 25" in height. I would think you'd have about 30" between the rear door and the back of the rear seat.

SPL Blazer
06-23-2010, 01:09 PM
Nice looking solidly built all-arounder, but I'm looking to go all out one way or another, either tune to 55hz where I peak or tune to 30ish for lowz. I put up a 149.1 last weekend and I think that's about the limit without risking smoking amps, and even if I ran the amps to dangerous impedence I doubt I'd see 150.....not in the jeep anyway. This needs a LONGER car that peaks closer to 45 and it would be a monster.


if your using the box for both daily music and burping then you don't want to tune high, keep it closer to 36-40 Hz and you'll be happy with it. Tuning it to 30ish will really hit the lows but will sound like crap on the 45-60 Hz range. I had mine tuned to 33 Hz and hated it, so I changed the tuning to 40 Hz and it slams on everything.

SPL Blazer
06-23-2010, 01:09 PM
Nice looking solidly built all-arounder, but I'm looking to go all out one way or another, either tune to 55hz where I peak or tune to 30ish for lowz. I put up a 149.1 last weekend and I think that's about the limit without risking smoking amps, and even if I ran the amps to dangerous impedence I doubt I'd see 150.....not in the jeep anyway. This needs a LONGER car that peaks closer to 45 and it would be a monster.


if your using the box for both daily music and burping then you don't want to tune high, keep it closer to 36-40 Hz and you'll be happy with it. Tuning it to 30ish will really hit the lows but will sound like crap on the 45-60 Hz range. I had mine tuned to 33 Hz and hated it, so I changed the tuning to 40 Hz and it slams on everything.

Mr. Slate
06-23-2010, 06:13 PM
A 3 cube limit is what is in the rules, if you can find an 18" that will work in that limited of a space then go for it, but I don't think you'll find it. You'd have better luck with a single 15" in 3 cubes, if your running the right sub it'll work. My 15" DC XL's are being put into 3 cubes each.



Again, this know it all is giving the wrong info and he's never owned an18.
HISPL, there are a few 18s that will work fine in a 3^3 SEALED enclosure. You can even do a Solo X 18 in a 3^3 sealed box. I've seen and heard a few.

basebalz13
06-23-2010, 06:31 PM
Wow, and I thought MECA had some weird rules..

SPL Blazer
06-23-2010, 10:37 PM
Again, this know it all is giving the wrong info and he's never owned an 18.


Thanks Nate, I forgot you know everything about nothing. I have an 18" RE XXX sitting in my garage right now, Hispls may remember seeing it at the 1st show we did together in West Roxbury. If there's an 18" that will work for music and tones in 3 cubes or less on 2,000 watts I'd like to know which one you say it is. I don't claim to know everything, but I know a lot.

hispls
06-24-2010, 10:44 AM
There is no 24" rule, but there is a 25" rule and that only applies to extended cab pick ups, not SUV's. So the only limit you have in TNESPL is 25" in height. I would think you'd have about 30" between the rear door and the back of the rear seat.

Just noticed that last night when I was double checking (I sort of assumed it was to keep people from throwing a box in the back seat)

Have more like 26 front to back tops since I have amps mounted there and the curve of the trunk latch is bumped in a bit.

hispls
06-24-2010, 11:51 PM
Again, this know it all is giving the wrong info and he's never owned an18.
HISPL, there are a few 18s that will work fine in a 3^3 SEALED enclosure. You can even do a Solo X 18 in a 3^3 sealed box. I've seen and heard a few.

He did have an 18 when I saw him in Roxbury, and I've personally used an 18" BTL and an 18" SOLOX in 4 cubes and thought they weren't doing too well. In fact, just dropping the 15" shocker in the same box was a noticable gain in output.

I would still like to build up an 18, but I think if I go single sub it'll be a 15 at this point (mainly since I have 2 allready, another one I can build up with a couple impedence options) Unless Jacob gets back to me with prices for 18" parts before I have a few hours to do up the 15.

hispls
06-25-2010, 12:00 AM
if your using the box for both daily music and burping then you don't want to tune high, keep it closer to 36-40 Hz and you'll be happy with it. Tuning it to 30ish will really hit the lows but will sound like crap on the 45-60 Hz range. I had mine tuned to 33 Hz and hated it, so I changed the tuning to 40 Hz and it slams on everything.

The box I made tuned to 33 is really nice and actually tuned a bit high from what I've been doing. My last box was tuned to 27 and I loved it, but the subs I have now aren't really built for big excursion. I've built a LOT of boxes and really I want either really low or really loud. And I mean extreme either way, no in between. Ideally I'll come up with a box with easily modified tuning that I can do both, otherwise I'll probably keep 2 separate ones built up and try to find a couple strong guys to help me move them in and out around shows.

If I'd never felt 20hz I'd probably be happy with 40hz tuning.... Next year I'll be looking to get into an LMS 18 and tune it with PRs to about 15hz and I'll be at shows burping with pipe organ music for the lulz.

Anyway, I wasted a day with some HU issues and putting in the new amp so I'll be just rolling with the Dave box for this weekend.

SPL Blazer
06-25-2010, 10:45 AM
The easiest way to change tuning would be using Aero ports, those are really simple to change the tuning. The only time I ran into issues with those was depending on the tuning you want sometimes the port has to be too long and the internal flares hit the sub, or have to be right where the sub is. I had an enclosure a few years ago that used two 4" aero ports for burps, then 3 3" aeros for music. I would have been happy just keep the pair fours for both, but they'd have hit the motors. I had a removable baffle for each set of ports. I'm doing the same thing with my new box too.

You can go the route of having a pair of enclosures, I had one for my competition only 10" Fi's and another for actually playing music, downside is having to swap them out after each show. I'll end up doing that with my new 15's enclosure, as long as I have someone around to help pull it out. My back isn't as good as it used to be.

SPL Blazer
06-25-2010, 10:50 AM
I remember a couple years ago I saw a competitor with an enclosure that had a really cool slot port that was changeable. It had one port that slid inside the other one like a sleeve and allowed the competitor to have tuning for burps or for daily. Maybe Dave can come up with something like this too.

hispls
06-25-2010, 03:05 PM
I remember a couple years ago I saw a competitor with an enclosure that had a really cool slot port that was changeable. It had one port that slid inside the other one like a sleeve and allowed the competitor to have tuning for burps or for daily. Maybe Dave can come up with something like this too.

That's something along the lines of what I was thinking. Actually I got some 8" sono tube to make some round ports out of. I was thinking a huge slot port tuned to 55 with a piece that bolts over it with 1 or 2 8" rounds tuned to @ 30 (35 max). It's something I can do myself, just not as pretty as Dave's stuff unless I invest a few hundred in router bits and pipe clamps. ATM I have more time than money so I'll definitely be doing my own boxes. At the time I had dave do up the one I'm using I had more money than time...and he did me a good trade.

For now Dave box should be competitive in rookie I think. I just need to pull one battery and I'm good to go. (fortunately I had a big ox of a friend here yesterday to help me lift the box). I swear if anybody tried to steal that box with the subs in I'd find them in the driveway in the morning with a hernia and some slipped disks.

http://www.caraudio.com/gallery/7/4/1/8/2/dsc06559.jpg

Burped a 148.5 today @45 hz. I can't immagine what I could do if I actually tuned to resonance of the jeep. Also looks like running the sundown 3K's at high impedence is utter ****..... at least for competing since the pair of 3Kd's only nets me .6db over the DC 2000.1. The difference is I think the DC wouldn't last too long at this level and the sundowns would go for hours. Also the difference between 2 ohm and 1/2 ohm I guess.

I have a couple songs that peak around 53hz. Still haven't ruled out competing in rookie 1 with a single 15 tuned to 53hz.

See you guys in Epping tomorrow.

For those that don't know, Epping is notorious for inbreeding. There's a couple families that are really full of swing-hips, hare-lips, and club-feet. I know the Heartfords is one, can't remember the others...haven't lived in the area in a while. I dated a chick from there once who's mother had a swing hip....chick was hot as hell though.

Mr. Slate
06-26-2010, 06:57 AM
If there's an 18" that will work for music and tones in 3 cubes or less on 2,000 watts I'd like to know which one you say it is. I don't claim to know everything, but I know a lot.

Here ya go "Mr. Know it all":

Sealed Enclosure Applications

The SOLOX is designed for Vented enclosure/ High SPL applications and that is where maximum output and
power handling will be achieved. If you are willing to give up maximum SPL and power handling for more low bass
output, then you can utilize our sealed enclosure recommendations.These sealed enclosure recommendations will
give the smoothest response with the most energy at really low frequencies, around 20 to 30 Hz.
The recommended Tuner sealed box will deliver massive amounts of high impact bass and can be driven with
punishing levels of amplifier power.
One of the benefits of the SoloX series high performance suspension system is that they can operate in larger
sealed enclosures for ultra low bass performance (SUV applications) while still maintaining excellent control and
power handling.
SOLOX series woofers also perform well in any sealed enclosure between the Tuner and SUV sizes. These systems
will exhibit some benefits of both (high impact and low extension) generally sounding more like the box to which
they are most closely sized.
These enclosure volume recommendations are for the airspace inside the enclosure and include the displace-
ment of the woofer. Do not make the airspace any greater than recommended.

S18X
Recommended Enclosures

Model
Tuner minimum: 3 cu.ft., F3= 31.6Hz,
Pmax= 6000W

You can take your foot out your mouth now "Mr. Know it all".

SICK GV
06-26-2010, 07:39 AM
Ok first Steve said music "AND" tones in a 3 cube or less box. Read the first 2 sentences of your reply you dummy.... 'The SOLOX is designed for Vented enclosure/ High SPL applications and that is where maximum output and power handling will be achieved. If you are willing to give up maximum SPL and power handling for more low bass output then you can utilize our sealed enclosure recommendations. BTW Kicker blows dude. Solo X is Solo Gay.

" If you know so much build something if not keep sucking ***** for food stamps"

hispls
06-26-2010, 09:33 AM
I've used a couple SOLOX 18's and their "reccomended" max spl box is 10cubes net IIRC, and I believe their "minimum" ported box was around 6 cube. That all being said I wouldn't be shocked if those figures were on the very small side. If Kicker said in their advertizing "this is the cone area of a pair of 15" rounds, you will have substandard performance in any box smaller than 7 cube" you think they'd sell a lot of solo X's? That all being said I did enjoy playing with them, they were pretty loud.

Obviously you can throw huge cone area in a very small sealed box and get reasonable low extension and output in a car. Wish I'd kept one to actually try that for the lulz.

Have you ever tried to put an 18" solo X into a 3 cube box?

Oh, also a SQUARE 18" sub would put me above 180 in^2 anyway so it's not terribly relevent for my needs AND I did NOT intend to buy an 18" sub for this, but I was considering building one from a motor I had allready.. Thanks for turning my thread into a pissing contest though.

Mr. Slate
06-28-2010, 03:12 AM
Yes, you are right for a ported enclosure but it can also play in a sealed enclosure as well in as little as 3^3. I posted that from the Solo tech manual.

Mr. Slate
06-28-2010, 03:14 AM
Ok first Steve said music "AND" tones in a 3 cube or less box. Read the first 2 sentences of your reply you dummy.... 'The SOLOX is designed for Vented enclosure/ High SPL applications and that is where maximum output and power handling will be achieved. If you are willing to give up maximum SPL and power handling for more low bass output then you can utilize our sealed enclosure recommendations. BTW Kicker blows dude. Solo X is Solo Gay.

" If you know so much build something if not keep sucking ***** for food stamps"

I got your arrest record you petty *** punk. Would you like to see it?

TeamElite-Mike
06-28-2010, 04:49 AM
I would!

Also, why would someone want to run a solo x sealed for spl???

hispls
06-28-2010, 05:35 PM
Yes, you are right for a ported enclosure but it can also play in a sealed enclosure as well in as little as 3^3. I posted that from the Solo tech manual.

Have you ever tried this? Got some numbers to quote?

Please GTFO if you have nothing to offer but bashing other members. You start out shitting on a guy who is really nice and helpful for not knowing about an 18" and you have yet to site any 18" woofer you have personally run in a 3 cube box with any data. From what I've seen most of the manufacturers (especially kicker) "reccomend" a MUCH smaller box than you'd really want for their woofers so they can sell more woofers to uneducated people who wouldn't know the difference.

I get the feeling if a couple people you didn't get along with didn't post in this thread you wouldn't have dropped by just to help me out.

That all being said I used the Dave box this weekend in Rookie 3 and put up 146 and change which AFAIK is way above any previous score in this class for this org so really all I need to do now is get the "official TNESPL CD" to see if I can do the same or similar at a 3X event. If not I plan to build a box that will do that off of somthing on that CD.

SICK GV
06-28-2010, 06:56 PM
We have discs and I think you can get them off the TNESPL website. If you cant get your hands on one I can burn you one just so you can test and tune.

SPL Blazer
06-28-2010, 07:03 PM
I picked up a few extra discs at the 3X this weekend, if you want one I'll have them with me at the shows, it's $15. Or you can buy one off the TNE site for $25.

spltuscon
06-28-2010, 11:09 PM
Nice score!! That is really good for that class, way above what was hit at the 3x event and that was a huge show.

There are actually some pretty good tracks on the disk that should work well for you from what I heard. I was able to bass race around a 148 in testing with one of the tracks and my frequency is close to yours.

TeamElite-Mike
06-28-2010, 11:14 PM
I get the feeling if a couple people you didn't get along with didn't post in this thread you wouldn't have dropped by just to help me out.

That all being said I used the Dave box this weekend in Rookie 3 and put up 146 and change which AFAIK is way above any previous score in this class for this org so really all I need to do now is get the "official TNESPL CD" to see if I can do the same or similar at a 3X event. If not I plan to build a box that will do that off of somthing on that CD.

Haha, Mr. Slate doesn't get along with a lot of people! That's a good score, what amp, batteries, and subs are you running?

BassBrawlinBill
06-28-2010, 11:51 PM
yeah it was by far the loudest rookie/amature system I have ever heard! He crushed the current record by far! I know he had 2 15s in a Dave box, it was nasty for so little power...

WTFG hispls! I'll be looking for a repeat performance at the 3X the 18th for ownage of the record! woot woot!

hispls
06-29-2010, 01:50 AM
Haha, Mr. Slate doesn't get along with a lot of people! That's a good score, what amp, batteries, and subs are you running?

DC Sound lab 2000.1, part-store batteries (excide up front I got at pep boys, and duralast from Auto zone in the back). Shocker USA Sigs (with sundown softparts) NOT an octo box, just very solidly built slot ported to 45hz. I intend to buy a different battery for the next show, something smaller and more powerful. The battery was pretty borderline for size, but really nothing amazing, just the standard 80$ deep cycle at your local auto zone. Voltage only 13.6 with engine on.

IMO the tracks I picked were pretty key and I did a lot of testing to see what songs metered best and what sections of the songs had the least breaks. Still I'm feeling really good about doing a very competitive number with this setup or building another box tuned to whatever music I need to put up the number with. I'm almost tempted to pony up for a membership so I can gather points up to attend finals.