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View Full Version : Options for more midbass



sussD01
04-19-2010, 01:55 PM
Alright, let me start by saying that before I registered and posted here that I've been trolling the boards and across the net for a couple weeks to try and avoid a flaming on this board. I've got very limited car audio knowledge, but have been reading threads nonstop to try and educate myself. That being said, feel free to tear this apart--I'm just looking for some help and guidance knowing full well that I'm both a board and car audio noob.

That being said...

I've got an 03 Toyota Camry. A couple years back I put an Eclipse 3200 HU and an ancient Kicker 15 solo baric powered by a Rockford 500 watt amp into it. After a while I decided I needed to get rid of the stock speakers, as the SQ ****** and sound was getting drowned out by my sub.

After some research and talking to a couple local shops, I was sold on a Memphis setup. They put in four m-class 6x9s powered by a 4x50 watt m-class amp. I was extremely happy with the system for a while as the SQ is awesome, but I've noticed that the lack of midbass is really starting to bother me.

I went back to the shop that sold and installed my Memphis speakers and amp and started to talk with one of the installers and a couple sales dudes about some options.

1)I looked at the new memphis 8" midbass, but it would be an awkward (and intrusive) fit into my doors while moving the 6x9s to the kickpanels--the panel would probably reach out and rub against your knee.

2)Then he told me I could get rid of the 6x9s in the front, put in the mclass 8" components in their place, and throw in a 4x125 to power the whole set.

3)The idea he liked most was to get rid of the front 6x9s, get a 6.5" component for the kickpanels and a 6.5" midbass for the doors (still on the memphis line). Then he told me I could either throw in the 4x125 or bridge the 4x50 and run the rear 6x9s off the HU (not my fave option).

Anyways, I'm wondering if option #3, potentially the best option of the 3, is even worth all the trouble. Would I even really be able to tell that much of a difference?

My other question is if there are some other solutions to my midbass problem. Would I be better served with a different brand or setup altogether? I know the shop carries JL, but beyond that I'm not too sure.

My budget is something around 1-2k, hopefully closer to 1k, and I'd like to stay away from having to build expensive fiberglass enclosures (I'm looking for functionality over style).

Thanks in advance for the help and advice.

Jeremy M
04-19-2010, 02:01 PM
if you want to keep it simple...perhaps lookin into the following things:
1.) properly treating your doors with deadener (before u buy new amps and 6x9's)
2.) try the Image Dynamic XS69 set..which i hear has great midbass...basically equal toa 8" midbass
3.) go with option 3 that the shop has told u to do


If this were me, i'd do option 1 first, cause u really need to do that in order to get the correct sound from your speakers. I believe there's a tutorial somewhere on here.

Bumpin' Goalie
04-19-2010, 02:14 PM
1k-2k is not necessary IMHO.

I believe properly sealing/deadening your doors can do great things for many setups.

Also, Option 3 does sound pretty good, as more power may bring the lower frequencies to life, and I am a fan of round speakers.

Option 2 is also not bad. Though, I haven't heard the Memphis 8" comps to vouch for them. My main concern would be if they can fit properly without surgery to the door.

Don't limit yourself to Memphis, or JL, and ask around on here for hands on opinions of components that give solid mid bass.

Lastly, Have you experimented with your amp and H/U's tuning and crossovers?

audioholic
04-19-2010, 02:22 PM
With four 6x9's you should have more than enough midbass.

Bumpin' Goalie
04-19-2010, 02:30 PM
With four 6x9's you should have more than enough midbass.

I think x-overs may be working against him?

l7runner
04-19-2010, 02:41 PM
With four 6x9's you should have more than enough midbass.

Yeah that is plenty of speaker from what I can imagine. Def. go over your HU/amp settings and check out your crossovers. The shop should have already checked this out for you, unless they just want more money.

sussD01
04-19-2010, 06:59 PM
Thanks for the quick responses guys. As a beginner to car audio I appreciate the patience and advice.

1) Will deadening the door make a noticeable difference in sound and acoustics? If so, is that something I can do on my own without F-ing things up too much?

2) I haven't yet played with the HU amp settings or crossovers. I asked the guys who installed it to tune it for me and haven't really touched it since. Is there a way to do this with my limited knowledge, or is there some sort of guide or formula to follow in changing settings on each of these? I've looked at the advanced audio menu of my receiver and it was pretty baffling to me, other than that I havent touched a thing. Any sort of guidance in tuning up the midbass would be awesome!

I'm really open to any ideas. Thanks so much for the input and I'm looking forward to seeing what I can do/tweak on my own!

l7runner
04-19-2010, 08:34 PM
Look on your amp that powers your 6x9s. There should be a knob that controls the crossover frequency. It will most likely say HP (high pass), see what frequency that is set to.

Also look on your HU to see if you have any crossovers set...and if you do what frequency

Geezerpoop
04-19-2010, 09:58 PM
I would listen to sets of comps (stick with memphis if you like the sound of them) until I found what provided the midbass I was looking for, then sell both sets of coaxials on here and bridge the 4-channel amp to run the comps up front. Also deaden doors. I was in the same boat as you 3-4 years ago...sold my two sets of coaxials, bought the comps, couldn't have been happier. With a budget of 1k you can get a great set of comps, deadener, and pay to get it installed (assuming you will go that route since you declared yourself a noob) with money left over.

Horsemanwill
04-19-2010, 10:25 PM
what 6x9s are you runnin now are they coax's?

papermaker
04-19-2010, 10:48 PM
ive owned the memphis m class there pretty nice speakers, but there no where near highend with killer midbass.

second if you have 4 6x9s in the rear deck the sub is likely to be pressurizing the 6x9s and that along could cause cancellation and kill output..

i never recommend kick panels because it destroys output and sound stage.. your so much better off getting a highend midbass and building a small sealed enclosure in the door as high as possible..90% of the sound is from the placement and alignment vs the drivers your choose..

IE i could get a good set of comps with 100x4 active to kill that setup in midbass have excellent soundstange and sound way better..
id advise you to go elsewhere if your really want solid low end extension and midbass..if you can at all possible try to seal th rearwave of the 6x9s to see if that helps but honestly its going to sound terrible coming from the rear..

what id advise is get rid of the 6x9s amp and the fronts get a 250x2 amp and a great set of 3ways and get some custom built door panels..

papermaker
04-19-2010, 10:58 PM
Thanks for the quick responses guys. As a beginner to car audio I appreciate the patience and advice.

1) Will deadening the door make a noticeable difference in sound and acoustics? If so, is that something I can do on my own without F-ing things up too much?sounddeadning doesn't provide added output but it does stop nasty resonances cause by the doors and other panels.. all you do is get about 2ft^2 per door(i like CLD times from SDS 4 per door is PLENTY) apply it to the parts that are most likely to flex/vibrate and cause nasty noise.. if you want the beak down on the subject search CarAudioForum.com - The WWW Car Audio Forum (http://www.caraudioforum.com)



2) I haven't yet played with the HU amp settings or crossovers. I asked the guys who installed it to tune it for me and haven't really touched it since. Is there a way to do this with my limited knowledge, or is there some sort of guide or formula to follow in changing settings on each of these? I've looked at the advanced audio menu of my receiver and it was pretty baffling to me, other than that I havent touched a thing. Any sort of guidance in tuning up the midbass would be awesome!maybe someone here can give you a hand locally where are you located?



I'm really open to any ideas. Thanks so much for the input and I'm looking forward to seeing what I can do/tweak on my own!like i said i hate to tell you but i think you went in the wrong direction for a excellent sounding loud as hell system.. decent 3 ways will blow your head off installed correctly...

sussD01
04-20-2010, 01:00 PM
So I went out to my car today and took a couple shots of my settings to give you guys an idea of where it's at.

I also turned my sub all the way down and just listened to the speakers on their own trying to isolate the midbass through the PEQ setting, and for the first time realized how **** thin the speakers sounded. Without my sub pounding to support the 6x9s the speakers really did sound weak. When the subs up and the music is loud you can't really tell, but once that bass was gone and the speakers were on their own, I can't believe how unimpressed that I was...



what 6x9s are you runnin now are they coax's?

Sorry I didn't clarify before--I'm running coaxials (two in the front and two in the back).


I would listen to sets of comps (stick with memphis if you like the sound of them) until I found what provided the midbass I was looking for, then sell both sets of coaxials on here and bridge the 4-channel amp to run the comps up front. Also deaden doors. I was in the same boat as you 3-4 years ago...sold my two sets of coaxials, bought the comps, couldn't have been happier. With a budget of 1k you can get a great set of comps, deadener, and pay to get it installed (assuming you will go that route since you declared yourself a noob) with money left over.

It DOES sounds like I just went the wrong way with this system and should've just gone the comp route to begin with... You're saying get 4 comps, bridge the amp I've got up front and get another for the rear?

Hopefully the pictures will give some insight. All the suggestions are really making me reconsider my current setup altogether. I'm not looking to compete, but I definitely want to find a way to get some volume and fullness out of the system--it sounds like what I've got right now isn't going to cut it. What kind of 3-way systems/amp combos would I be looking at if I went that route?

THANKS AGAIN for all the help. It's good to talk to guys that aren't giving suggestions just to bank off my business.

l7runner
04-20-2010, 01:16 PM
Turn your crossover filter for front and rear to the left (counterclockwise) towards the 50hz setting. Try a 9-10 o'clock position. It seems as if the crossovers are set around 170hz which is wayyy to high for midbass to play through. You should notice a difference

The HU picture is of your EQ settings, see if you can find the menu for the HU's crossovers (assuming it has internal crossovers)

Wattser93
04-20-2010, 02:20 PM
Turn your crossover filter for front and rear to the left (counterclockwise) towards the 50hz setting. Try a 9-10 o'clock position. It seems as if the crossovers are set around 170hz which is wayyy to high for midbass to play through. You should notice a difference

The HU picture is of your EQ settings, see if you can find the menu for the HU's crossovers (assuming it has internal crossovers)

+1, it seems as though your HPF is set WAY too high. Who set the HPF? The shop?

sussD01
04-20-2010, 03:18 PM
I changed those front and rear settings on the amp to between 9-10 o'clock and can hear a considerable difference for sure. Definitely a great start on getting things sounding better.

The shop set all the settings on the HU and amp, I haven't touched it til today. Should they have known better?

Here are two photos of the crossover setting on the HU. The 'x' photo is what it is set at, and the photo where it looks like a skewed 't' is the only other setting.

l7runner
04-20-2010, 04:48 PM
I changed those front and rear settings on the amp to between 9-10 o'clock and can hear a considerable difference for sure. Definitely a great start on getting things sounding better.

The shop set all the settings on the HU and amp, I haven't touched it til today. Should they have known better?

Here are two photos of the crossover setting on the HU. The 'x' photo is what it is set at, and the photo where it looks like a skewed 't' is the only other setting.

The should have def. known better. If they didn't adjust the amp after you brought it back to them claiming a lack of midbass you should be looking for a new shop.

Do you know how many sets of outputs your HU has? Typically if a HU has 2 RCA outputs one is designated for mids/highs and the other is for subs. The HU's crossover divides the music frequencies between these outputs. I could not see a crossover frequency in the pics you posted, but could see the diagram. It would be important to know if the crossover is turned on, and to which frequency it is set. If you can adjust it to around 70Hz you should be good. if the HU's crossovers are being used, typically there is no point of using the amp's crossovers as well.

So if you get the HU to crossover the music you can then turn your mid/high amp to full.

Horsemanwill
04-20-2010, 05:26 PM
why is the mid on the deck set at 700hz? drop that to about 80 or 100

l7runner
04-20-2010, 05:31 PM
why is the mid on the deck set at 700hz? drop that to about 80 or 100

I believe that is the Midrange EQ frequency

Horsemanwill
04-20-2010, 05:35 PM
i just looked at the manual for your unit and that ***** the mid is fixed at 700hz so your gonna have to depend on the amps xover in order to get a better response.

sussD01
04-20-2010, 07:09 PM
Thanks for checking the specs out on the HU, horseman. So pretty much beyond what I did on the amp today it seems like any other changes would have to come with a change of equipment (and in that case it seems the consensus is for a set of comps or 3-ways...)?

And considering the lack of attention by that shop, should I be looking for a new one? There are some shady shops around here and I'd thought that I finally found a solid one...

Horsemanwill
04-20-2010, 07:11 PM
get you a good set of components if your factory up ront are 6x9 i'd recommend teh ID XS69

Jeremy M
04-20-2010, 07:38 PM
this ^

and deadener your front doors and either bridge ur current amp or get an amp that will do 250+rms x 2

l7runner
04-20-2010, 08:49 PM
Thanks for checking the specs out on the HU, horseman. So pretty much beyond what I did on the amp today it seems like any other changes would have to come with a change of equipment (and in that case it seems the consensus is for a set of comps or 3-ways...)?

And considering the lack of attention by that shop, should I be looking for a new one? There are some shady shops around here and I'd thought that I finally found a solid one...

Have you turned off the HU's internal crossovers yet? If the are highpassing at like 150hz from your HU then your mids will not be getting those signals regardless of your amp settings. Try that first before buying any equipment.

sussD01
04-20-2010, 08:51 PM
Have you turned off the HU's internal crossovers yet? If the are highpassing at like 150hz from your HU then your mids will not be getting those signals regardless of your amp settings. Try that first before buying any equipment.

I haven't done that yet. Would that be in the advanced sound settings on the HU or would I find it elsewhere?

l7runner
04-20-2010, 09:07 PM
That picture you posted from earlier was an illustration of the HU's crossover frequencies. So I would assume in that menu there would be options to turn it off/adjust.

Look in the manual if possible. If the crossover frequency is set too high the amp won't be receiving the correct range of signals to play. Thus no midbass

sussD01
04-21-2010, 10:09 AM
I've got some things to take care of today but I'll definitely check that out tonight and post and update--thanks man.