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View Full Version : hurry up and bring FLAC to car stereo everyone needs to help out



raverx3m
02-14-2010, 03:08 AM
its year 2010 and mp3 is getting out of style.
for people that want good quality sound MP3 just doesnt cut it
flac as tested by many people is in fact one of the true lossless formats,besides apple lossless
the problem with apple lossless is that its only supported by single media player(ipod), its copy protected
and it is in some cases conected to the headunit thru analog connection

using USB means its decoded by the headunit digital signal

the problem is car audi manufacturers are for some reason ignore this codec completely whether on purpose or not
there isnt a single headunit that supports flac( kenwood music keg and some other addons are exceptions)

as far as i know almost every portable device suppors flac
even my blackberry phone supports flac!!!!!!!!!!!!!
pioneer home receivers, network media players ETC...
theres lots of support for flac

not to mention the people that use it to back up their entire CD collections in FLAC
all of my CDs are backed up in flac but its very GAY and disappointing that i cant take any of them to my car and enjoy quality sound without bringing a stack of CDs.

i ve talked to local reps, i ve created a topic on pioneer mel forum and few other places and so far i got no results.

its like im talking to a wall. pioneer did not give any clear responces why there isnt a flac support still

theres one improvement this and last year tho alot of headunits are supporting WAV playback.
but WAV is uncompressed format that takes up TONNS of space and doesnt support ID tags and any other info



--------------------
i am asking people that use flac to be a lil more active and make your presence known and contact manufacturers and request for flac support, because that might be the only way to get those **** corporations to take action.
i was really hoping that new 2010 models would support it but it seems like the new models are just BS with more flashy stuff and no real innovations.

PLEASE PLEASE make some noise and help me and yourself to bring the quality sound to yor car!!!!!!


the best way to do it is by email directly to the corporations and by talking to your local representatives,

JimJ
02-14-2010, 09:15 AM
Car PC. Problem solved.

raverx3m
02-14-2010, 01:27 PM
well yea but its a lil more expensive total price

Eugenics
02-14-2010, 03:32 PM
well yea but its a lil more expensive total price

Good point.

Get a P99rs, then convert those flac files to apple lossless, load your ipod up, connect it to said pioneer deck. now the ipod works as a transport and the super duper dacs will convert the files.

Sir-Lancelot
02-14-2010, 04:01 PM
Good point.

Get a P99rs, then convert those flac files to apple lossless, load your ipod up, connect it to said pioneer deck. now the ipod works as a transport and the super duper dacs will convert the files.

Problem with that is an I pod will not have the SQ of a good head unit.

JimJ
02-14-2010, 04:07 PM
It can, if you do what Wadia does and put the DAC outside the unit :)

Eugenics
02-14-2010, 04:27 PM
Problem with that is an I pod will not have the SQ of a good head unit.

Read again. The pioneer does the number crunching.

gunmetal30
02-14-2010, 05:10 PM
I totally agree that we should be able to play FLAC or WMA lossless in the car. I've been researching this for the past week and I've came to the same conclusion. It seems the car audio manufacturers just don't see the need to add it since most people are content with mp3 quality.

In fact. I think they should do away with the mp3 format all together and just switch to the lossless ones. Who figured that people would want to go from listening to CD's to something that sounds like a cassette anyway. Its an old format and its outdated. With USB drives being large enough to store most of your collection on now you don't need the music compressed that much anymore.

I'm in the market for a new head unit right now. And I'll just be going with one that supports WAV files since its the best option right now. Kinda ***** I'll be using so much space to play my music how I want it to sound but its better than toting around a bunch of CD's I guess.

Eugenics
02-14-2010, 05:17 PM
I totally agree that we should be able to play FLAC or WMA lossless in the car. I've been researching this for the past week and I've came to the same conclusion. It seems the car audio manufacturers just don't see the need to add it since most people are content with mp3 quality.

In fact. I think they should do away with the mp3 format all together and just switch to the lossless ones. Who figured that people would want to go from listening to CD's to something that sounds like a cassette anyway. Its an old format and its outdated. With USB drives being large enough to store most of your collection on now you don't need the music compressed that much anymore.

I'm in the market for a new head unit right now. And I'll just be going with one that supports WAV files since its the best option right now. Kinda ***** I'll be using so much space to play my music how I want it to sound but its better than toting around a bunch of CD's I guess.

First off, MP3s don't necessarily have terrible sq. Certainly nowhere near as bad as a cassette. For most listening, they work just fine.

Second, how many people do you figure use FLAC or other lossless codecs? A tiny tiny sliver, and no wonder.. Lossless files are nearly as large as their wav counterparts, so would i rather have my 160gb ipod filled with 320 albums, or thousands?

OE' and aftermarket manufacturers haven't adopted lossless because it doesn't make sense at this point in time. So if you want to use a niche codec, you're going to likely have to use niche hardware.

gunmetal30
02-14-2010, 05:55 PM
Ok I exaggerated a little on the sound quality of mp3. They don't sound that bad. But I bet if people had the option to use FLAC on as many devices as you can use mp3 it would be used more.

Also, I think people just stick with mp3 cause its the only option. When you download songs online most are an MP3 or AAC file.

I kinda think the ipod spoiled people into being able to carry around their whole music collection with them. I myself have no use of carrying around all my music with me. I don't need 300 albums in my pocket when I'll only listen to a fraction of them in a week anyway. If I want to switch it up I'll just take off a few and add others. I guess its a trade off of functionality vs. quality.

I do think we should have the option to play FLAC files anywhere or be able to download them in FLAC when we purchase music online. That's why I still buy CD's. Maybe when usb drives are large enough to carry more music than anyone owns they will add the support but I hope it comes sooner than that.

raverx3m
02-14-2010, 07:08 PM
eugenics you are wrong on that issue and a lil outdated

check the supported formats of portable media players and home audio even cellphones support FLAC

and im so temted to call you an I-tool but i dont because i dont hate ipod its a great media player BUT>>

>>ipod is not the only mp3 player out there
and apple format is not the only format out there

i dont use apple products or ipod and not planning to convert all my 300gb of music into ITUNES compatible media so i can only listen to it on apple products

do you see my point?
apple restricts you to ONLY apple products and not much else

can you take the music on your ipod and EASILY copy it to your external hard drive to use in your other car?
well i can with MP3 and flac
i can put it on as many media players i want without going thru the program called i tunes.

another point is storage space is getting cheaper and larger
so who is gonna complain about 400-500 mb per album when you have 2-4 terabytes of space on your PC?

you dont even need that much music in the car its not like you listen to all of it. i bet 20% of your ipod is filled with music you never listened to since you put it on there.

--------------------------
good point Get a P99rs
lol man really?
car pc cost around 800$ its expensive
solution: get a p99rs which costs 1300$ not a great way to save money on car stereo

Eugenics
02-14-2010, 08:10 PM
eugenics you are wrong on that issue and a lil outdated

check the supported formats of portable media players and home audio even cellphones support FLAC

and im so temted to call you an I-tool but i dont because i dont hate ipod its a great media player BUT>>

>>ipod is not the only mp3 player out there
and apple format is not the only format out there

i dont use apple products or ipod and not planning to convert all my 300gb of music into ITUNES compatible media so i can only listen to it on apple products

do you see my point?
apple restricts you to ONLY apple products and not much else

can you take the music on your ipod and EASILY copy it to your external hard drive to use in your other car?
well i can with MP3 and flac
i can put it on as many media players i want without going thru the program called i tunes.

another point is storage space is getting cheaper and larger
so who is gonna complain about 400-500 mb per album when you have 2-4 terabytes of space on your PC?

you dont even need that much music in the car its not like you listen to all of it. i bet 20% of your ipod is filled with music you never listened to since you put it on there.

--------------------------
good point Get a P99rs
lol man really?
car pc cost around 800$ its expensive
solution: get a p99rs which costs 1300$ not a great way to save money on car stereo

Idiot. First of all, i don't have an ipod, dont use a mac, nothing of that sort. I was simply pointing out that its the only other option for lossless.

And how do people get a majority of their music? They download it. So do you think a majority of people are going to go out and download 500mb albums? Most people don't have connections that can download at a few megabytes per second. Very few people want to deal with that compromise.

Most people also don't have 2-4tb. We dont all live on the bleeding edge. Most of us have had our computers for a few years. I have well over a TB of music, most of which i downloaded almost 6 years ago. Far from typical.

I don't need all my albums in my car? Who are you to tell me what i need, or what i'll use. You dont NEED lossless music in your car. So what?

No, i'm not outdated or wrong. You just live in a different world.

Eugenics
02-14-2010, 08:10 PM
And i will look forward to having a mac mini as a car pc ;)

raverx3m
02-15-2010, 07:11 PM
I-tool in denial...
please dont post in this thread anymore if you dont have anything usefull.

Eugenics
02-15-2010, 08:20 PM
I-tool in denial...
please dont post in this thread anymore if you dont have anything usefull.

lul. try not to be so emotional.

hatedonmostly
02-15-2010, 08:30 PM
lol @ lossless in a car.

hatedonmostly
02-15-2010, 08:32 PM
I-tool in denial...
please dont post in this thread anymore if you dont have anything usefull.

You're the one in denial. You're the one who thinks car audio producers are going to produce HUs with a playback ability that 5% of people will even give a **** about...let alone use.

thehardknoxlife
02-15-2010, 08:51 PM
lol @ lossless in a car.

My thoughts exactly.


Although I guess there are people who want that uber SQ at 60mph.

There's a simple answer for this question. There is no market for it.

supermaxx123
02-15-2010, 08:52 PM
320kps is pretty high quality to me. maybe im wrong but it sounds fine to me. hopefully you get a FLAC compatible HU soon.

hatedonmostly
02-15-2010, 08:54 PM
320kps is pretty high quality to me. maybe im wrong but it sounds fine to me. hopefully you get a FLAC compatible HU soon.

It's **** good enough, it's all I use.

Eugenics
02-15-2010, 09:07 PM
I would be amazed if the tool could tell the difference between a well ripped Mp3 and a Flac track if he A/B'd them in an objective test.

hatedonmostly
02-15-2010, 09:20 PM
I would be amazed if the tool could tell the difference between a well ripped Mp3 and a Flac track if he A/B'd them in an objective test.

Look at it this way.
5% of people use FLAC.
90% of people who use FLAC use it because of the principle that if it's FLAC, it must be better. They really don't have a clue and won't notice any difference.

supermaxx123
02-15-2010, 09:29 PM
I would be amazed if the tool could tell the difference between a well ripped Mp3 and a Flac track if he A/B'd them in an objective test.

me too.

raverx3m
02-15-2010, 09:44 PM
yea dude still stuck in highschool lol

and LOL at all the people using CDs in their car.
also lol at people that prefer cds over compressed audio
lol again at people that do hear the difference between compressed audio and cd quality sound.
lol at your car system if you cant hear the difference between CD and compressed audio.


and its not about just sound quality
its a popular format for backing up your cd collection without losing quality
and it would be nice if i cound play my cds in the car with CD QUALITY without having to convert them to WAV first and then to MP3 every time i want to put it to car radio

thats not the point.

let me ask you this question.

how many of you have your music collection encoded in AAC
and even better how about WAV format . but its supported by most newer radios

this turning into a fkn high school popularity contest.

if you dont care about lack of flac support then please find another place to troll and post stupid comments.

Eugenics
02-15-2010, 09:54 PM
someone is butthurt

if 500mb albums aren't a big deal, why not just have the full 700mb album?

raverx3m
02-15-2010, 10:20 PM
if you actually read then you will see that wav doesnt support tags
then you would not ask the stupid question that you just asked...
im not butthurt i just dont like annoying people
do you want an award for winning an online argument or something?
because i dont see how you contribute any usefull info to this thread.

ipod still uses sound processing before it sends the signal to car stereo
it decodes the compressed format into PCM and sends it to the radio(according to pioneer)

usb support is limited to about 5000 files and 300-500 folders
which means if you have most music encoded in 320kbps mp3 you would need about 32gb thumbdrive to reach the limit
and if you have flac you can buy a 64gb thumb drive and fit same amount of music as you would on 32gb mp3 but with full quality
so your argment about space is as usefull as 3 legged dog

ipod can support larger drives because headunit doesnt index and store the file list in its own memory same way it does for usb media.

Eugenics
02-15-2010, 10:23 PM
Why don't you get off the iPods balls? There are other mp3 players out there, brah. I get so sick of i-tools.

JimJ
02-15-2010, 10:53 PM
lawl

JimJ
02-15-2010, 10:55 PM
I always find the combination of trolling and non-trolling posts agreeing with the trolls to be the best part :)

raverx3m
02-15-2010, 11:06 PM
wow brah did you read the flamer's guide or how to win an online argument?
it seems like you are very good at not making any sense with your statements brah.
see theres an old saying: dont argue with a fool, becuase he will bring you down to his level and beat you with experience...
your last post made even less sense then the one before it.

Why don't you get off the iPods balls? why dont you get off my balls and find something else to do. maybe go back to highschool seems like you miss it alot.


There are other mp3 players out there, brah. I get so sick of i-tools yea thats what i said at least you admit something, must be very tough to be sick of yourself.
you stupid! please go troll someone else's topic. eugenics

supermaxx123
02-15-2010, 11:23 PM
so your looking for something that supports FLAC on a CD? if your going through all that trouble i think the easiest way would be to use your real cd's and not copy anything.

headless
02-15-2010, 11:38 PM
Riocar empeg ftw. I've got 500gb of flac/mp3 mixed tracks available in my car and have for years. Pity the empeg was so far ahead of it's time.

ahole-ic
02-16-2010, 12:04 AM
What I don't understand is, why people are on the side of the manufacturers here when they DON'T innovate. If nobody is in the market for sq, why have processors on the market? Why have all the equalization options in head units?
When they put usb and SD card support in head units there was no market for that either. Everyone was using cds. You could load a dvd full of mp3s and play it on your iva-d900. Why use a memory stick? Nobody does that..... but it took off. It's easier than burning. people like it.
People would like flac support too. It would have a bigger following than what you guys know. Once people realized that when they were demoing their stereo that full quality would make all that extra money they just spent sound like it was worth it... they would use flac. How many of us drive around with our entire music collection in there with us? Not very many. That's the advantage of usb. We can take only what we want to hear right then.... so the arguments on space are not exactly relevant. Even if it were, storage space is increasing like mad with flash chips dropping in price.
Head units have been basically unchanged now for what? 3-5 years? There haven't been any large innovations because we keep buying the crap that they keep putting out. I don't know what people just want a head unit that plays cds, has only a couple rca outputs and crappy equalization options... but don't be mad at the rest of us if we don't want to buy the same old thing. Don't talk crap because we don't want to build a car pc just to be able to play a format that is widely used and becoming a standard.
I also saw the argument that audio manufacturers don't want to add a codec because most people download their music and it's in mp3 format. Why would they want to ONLY support piracy? Most of us rip our own cds and leave them at home and take our ripped music in the car. The REAL problem is that most people on this site are not very smart but yet they think they are geniuses.

Eugenics
02-16-2010, 12:19 AM
Don't expect much to change. OEM integration is where its at.

And no, i don't much see a reason for after market manufacturers to go out of their way to implement a standard few people use on stereos where they couldn't tell the difference anyway.

And no, i think people will generally continue to prefer smaller file size over a minute difference.

Eugenics
02-16-2010, 12:19 AM
doesn't matter to me anyway. im going the car pc route.

ahole-ic
02-16-2010, 12:27 AM
And no, i think people will generally continue to prefer smaller file size over a minute difference.

Not that I agree with your premise, but that is the best point made so far.

raverx3m
02-16-2010, 01:18 AM
well the argument of pioneer was
1 its too expensive to design a programmable chip that would support firmware updates
read between the lines: it is about same price for us to do it but in a year or two we will not be able to release the old REPACKAGED unit with new flashy interface and minimal improvements(if any)
in short its not profitable for a company to release upgradeable units.
look at alpine they all show firmware update but i have never seen one EVER

2) pioneer claims that licenses are very expensive in order to support flac, or other codecs
i read: if we support all codecs at same time then next year there will be nothing new to introduce, we have to milk the cow and bring the "improvements" one by one so people are FORCED to buy new models



for example:
for blackberry owners
compare blackberry curve8900 and bold9700
identical phones with exception of 3G capability and trackpad
memory, cpu,screen size, camera resolution and practically everything else is same
minimal upgrades to keep the customer starving...


BUT: whose fault is that?
is it the fault of the company whose only goal is profit and they manufacture what sells best
or is it the fault of the consumer that is not well educated but demands more, faster,cheaper...

theres a good saying: fast,reliable,cheap (pick only 2) alot of people want all 3 which are impossible in this world.

but back to the flac.

there are alot of audiophiles in the world.
mostly in home audio.
and if you pay attention you will see that flac is being held up by the manufacturers from expanding
every flac supporting mp3 player that has great sound quality to back it p has been bought out and kept
and like rio decks there are also a very hard items to get just because they were ahead of time

but what alot of people dont notice is how quickly a good product disappears from the market. because if one model is great features and great value then nothing else sells
if a company wants to raise profits it releases an underrated model for a great price and then replaces it with something crappy next year and rides the wave.

if people would observe and see the big picture there would be no need to start this topic.

JimJ
02-16-2010, 08:31 AM
and if you pay attention you will see that flac is being held up by the manufacturers from expanding

All variants of the Squeezebox run FLAC, what else do you need?

I see no audiophiles complaining about the lack of FLAC support at home - they're either running SlimServer or direct from the DAC. And that's the only market that really matters for this anyway - I agree that you're not going to be able to tell a difference in a moving vehicle. At home, yes, depending on the resolution of the system.


Once people realized that when they were demoing their stereo that full quality would make all that extra money they just spent sound like it was worth it... they would use flac.

You're on a forum composed of mostly teenagers and people just beyond it whose definition of "demo" rarely includes anything above 100Hz. Look at what people emphasize in their signatures - that's all the proof you need. They don't care.


I don't know what people just want a head unit that plays cds, has only a couple rca outputs and crappy equalization options..

Me. Actually, I could do without any EQ, just a transport and DAC :) This is the concept behind something like a Denon Z1...and it doesn't exactly have a bad reputation with people whose ears are pretty good.

ahole-ic
02-16-2010, 12:02 PM
All variants of the Squeezebox run FLAC, what else do you need?

Me. Actually, I could do without any EQ, just a transport and DAC :) This is the concept behind something like a Denon Z1...and it doesn't exactly have a bad reputation with people whose ears are pretty good.

Well, in my application, midbass is sorely lacking etc. Without EQ, it makes it difficult to reproduce the sound as I know it should sound. I realize most people don't think about much above 100hz, but really it's really not asking that much to simply add a codec. It's not that much to ask to simply add some eq options.
I am just delving into SQ, so I'm clearly no expert. I run a Kenwood KVT-819dvd. I use 320kbps mp3's and original cds. I can tell a big difference from 192kbps and 320, but not a huge diff when going to cd from mp3-320 depending on volume. As I turn the volume up, I can hear the difference more clearly between the two.
I don't have the experience to know what SQ guys are going for. I like my listening level to the point that the music engulfs me. Where I don't hear anything BUT it, but not much louder than that. For these levels, my equipment is not at its limits. My ears pick up no perceivable distortion. At these levels, I cannot honestly pick out which is 320kbps mp3 and which is cd. If I go above this level much, I can hear harshness in my highs in the mp3s. With the CD, I do not get this until I reach my equipment's limits. So it's not that I don't understand everyone's points. This is for a small percentage of users and just a small percentage of their usage.... I disagree though, that we should not demand innovation in this form from the manufacturers. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a feature that is just a firmware modification. It's not like we're asking for a bunch of hardware to change. It's a FREE codec. They don't have to pay any royalties or licensing. They just need to implement it.

As for the filesize vs quality argument. I admit it's a good point, but you seem like you're experienced in the piracy market ;) I have some knowledge on the matter. What percentage of people download vcd's and cams when they have the choice to download the dvd quality? EVERYONE downloads the dvd quality. NOBODY wants a cam or vcd. Sure it can download in 20 minutes, but I can't stand to watch it. The dvd quality is usually not dvd quality. It looks and sounds like garbage but you get the point, but it leaves you feeling like you jerked it when you had the choice to get laid. That's why there are dvd iso's out there and bluray iso's now. They are not a small percentage anymore. It's available. People are becoming educated on the matter, and they want it and use it. The same would happen with flac if it were made more widely available.

raverx3m
02-16-2010, 01:03 PM
id have to disagree on lack of eq.
eq should be a standard feature.
because like you said the car is far from a perfect environment and you will not get a flat responce from a car for the most part because of the differences in the interior design of every car so you will have dips and ups that would need to be equalized or done the hard way by modifying the interior.
even leather seats make a big difference. as they absorb alot less sound.

but just because the car is a crappy environment doesnt mean you can just totally forget abotu good sound
it should be opposite

its kinda like saying honda is slow car so theres no use in putting a turbo on it or any other mods to make it perform better.


i said it many times and will say it again
once my front stage was done i lost all need for rear speakers and sub
the only music i need a sub for is hiphop.
everything else sounds amazing with just front components.


i have some really good quality recordings that dont sound right with compressed audio.

and i do belive that most people are capable of telling a difference between garbage and very expensive speakers and between compressed and cd quality.
it takes few days for your ears to adjust to different sound just like with headphones.

a good example would be sony DJ headphones and a pair of AudioTechnica headphones. similar headphones but a big difference in sound.



so probably now is a good time to start buggin the manufacturers so maybe by next year or middle of this year we might see FLAC support

JimJ
02-16-2010, 01:20 PM
I'm not disagreeing with the need for EQ (I realized I wasn't very clear in that post), I'm just saying there's a better place for it...like in an outboard processor or standalone unit :)

raverx3m
02-16-2010, 02:17 PM
i always thought that less processing means better sound overall
so having all the sound adjustments built in headunit would be better
sonce from headunit its a long way to the processor more chances to pick up distortion

because inside the headunit the processing is most likely is done in same circut as the preamp and then sent to RCA or internal amp
with external its processed at the unit goes thu preamp to the rca >external procesor>rca> amplifier>speakers
alot longer path and more possibilities to pick up noise.

i might be wrong tho.

JimJ
02-16-2010, 02:21 PM
So use a processor that uses fiber (Pioneer) or run balanced, problem solved :)

Eugenics
02-16-2010, 02:38 PM
Flac. I need more flac!

jmanpc
02-16-2010, 05:43 PM
The answer is simple. I dare you to hear a difference between a FLAC file and a 192kbps mp3 while you're doing 75 down the highway.

Unless your car is an anechoic chamber on wheels, chances are you won't be able to tell. I sure as hell can't tell the difference in a brand new CD and my Zune (toting music in 192kbps mp3) that's hooked in through an RCA input.

:fyi:

ahole-ic
02-16-2010, 06:01 PM
The answer is simple. I dare you to hear a difference between a FLAC file and a 192kbps mp3 while you're doing 75 down the highway.

Unless your car is an anechoic chamber on wheels, chances are you won't be able to tell. I sure as hell can't tell the difference in a brand new CD and my Zune (toting music in 192kbps mp3) that's hooked in through an RCA input.

:fyi:

I can pretty clearly. Of course I run boston acoustics and not phoenix gold... so that's probably why. ;) No seriously, if you say you can't hear the difference then that's your fault. It's all up high and yes you can hear the difference. When you turn it up loud the highs don't sound clear anymore with 192. With 320 it's hard to tell that it's not cd, unless I REALLY crank it to where your ears bleed. Then you need CD or Flac. Just because you have a crappy set of ears doesn't mean everyone does.

jmanpc
02-16-2010, 06:13 PM
Well, I'll admit the PG comps aren't top notch and I'm working on getting some new components. However, my last setup was a 4-way active with MB Quart mids and tweets, Tang Band midbasses and MB Quart subs. I know a good quality system. I still maintain that the difference between the two is nearly imperceptible in a real-world situation. You should do an experiment and see if you can hear the difference. I have done it and I sure as hell can't tell.

Eugenics
02-16-2010, 06:21 PM
I can pretty clearly. Of course I run boston acoustics and not phoenix gold... so that's probably why. ;) No seriously, if you say you can't hear the difference then that's your fault. It's all up high and yes you can hear the difference. When you turn it up loud the highs don't sound clear anymore with 192. With 320 it's hard to tell that it's not cd, unless I REALLY crank it to where your ears bleed. Then you need CD or Flac. Just because you have a crappy set of ears doesn't mean everyone does.

Could just as easily be the quality of the rip too.

ahole-ic
02-16-2010, 06:43 PM
Could just as easily be the quality of the rip too.

It's times like these when everyone is calm, having a good discussion and nobody is butt hurt that i wish we all lived in the same town. Then we could meet up and listen in each other's stereos.

brynm
02-16-2010, 06:44 PM
Or if it was downloaded it could have been someone transcoded it from a lower bit rate

Eugenics
02-16-2010, 06:55 PM
It's times like these when everyone is calm, having a good discussion and nobody is butt hurt that i wish we all lived in the same town. Then we could meet up and listen in each other's stereos.

Well, you can just find anyone elses 99 tahoe and listen to that. Vehicles have been my last priority, ha. Just now getting **** together to buy a new vehicle and drop too much money/time on a system.

headless
02-16-2010, 07:40 PM
192 vs. 320 is certainly audible with the right content on the right stereo. Remember, if you're listening to music without much content in the first place, 192k might be all you need to reproduce it correctly. Listening to music with a large amount of audio information across the entire frequency range, on the other hand, can easily show where 192k is not enough. It is very difficult to tell the difference between a 320k mp3 and a flac file, but at certain points in some tracks, it is apparent if you know what to listen for and have just listened to the mp3 back to back with the flac. I don't think someone would be able to tell the difference in normal conditions where you aren't swapping back/forth between the two, but if the sound is audible when you try to listen for it, i figure your subconscious will enjoy the difference anyway ;)

BTW, the empeg supports flac and you can easily install an optical output in the unit. Optical out from empeg playing flac's to optical input on eclipse cd7k... between the 20 band adjustable Q (with very tight grandularity on the Q constant adjustment) parametric EQ that's built into the empeg and the dual 5 band PEQ's on the cd7k, you're good to go on EQ. The cd7k can then do time alignment and crossovers. Only digital/analog conversion is then done on the cd7k's outputs. The empeg can house 2 laptop hard drives, so really, unless you are a really crazy *** hoarder of music and you actually have over 1TB of music, you're not going to run out.

Only down side is that the empeg doesn't do crossovers and it's only got front/rear outputs....so using it in a real setup requires some external processing either by running the outputs of the empeg through your HU or by using other external x-overs/time alignment.

Kyle!
02-16-2010, 08:09 PM
I am still for the most part a beginner in the audio scene, so take this for what its worth. I felt like I could hear a difference between the 320kbps mp3's on my Ipod and the actual CD. I knew nothing about lossless at all, but started looking for a way to have my whole collection in CD-quality format on a small device (Ipod). So without knowing there was anything better, I felt the desire to find something better because what I had was lacking quality. That for me is enough to think that Flac and lossless are worth the extra size and hassle

raverx3m
02-16-2010, 10:06 PM
hmm

raverx3m
02-16-2010, 10:12 PM
i dont think ipod encodes at 320kbps
isnt default setting 128 or 192 or something
well theres
music keg from kenwood
theres rio
theres ural concert
all support flac

and all are impossible to find almost

Eugenics
02-16-2010, 10:35 PM
i used 320k on my zune with no issues.

Eugenics
02-20-2010, 07:29 PM
Just to put an end to this...


Just download MP3s at 256k or better and you'll be fine. I demoed my car the other day for a guy who explained his home system to me. He has what must be a $250k system. This stuff was so expensive and esoteric that I'd never heard of any of it--a $50k turntable? Anyway, he loved the car, claimed it had the highest resolution he'd ever heard in a car and that the dynamics were as good or better than what he has at home. Then he insisted that he could hear the difference between ANY compressed format and CD on any system. After 15 minutes of him railing against digital equalization and fake-sounding processing, we listened.

I think I upset him when I told him that the tracks he had chosen were all iTunes downloads at 128k and that for those tracks, there was nothing going on above 15k, and that all the amplification in the car besides what drives the subwoofers are 20-watt ICs. When I broke out the PC and showed him how much EQ and processing he was listening to, he said, "This causes me to rethink my hobby."

Mission accomplished.

Oh, back to the original topic: I've never heard anything that claimed to restore the sound of low bit-rate MP3s that worked as well as boosting the high frequencies that are left by a dB or two. If it's the lack of high frequencies that has you down, try that. If you download at 256k, then even that isn't necessary.

DIYMA.com - View Single Post - MP3 "sound reconstruction" tech- discuss (http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/966768-post4.html)

His word is more than good enough for me.

raverx3m
02-20-2010, 10:40 PM
lol the guy got owned.
what music did you play btw. becaue if you play some hip hop or typical POP music i cant really tell the quality of recording.
or something i never heard before

because its hard to tell what it should sound like when you have nothign to compare it to.

so to the people that keep telling me you cant hear ****.
i never said i can tell 100% all i said that i can tell when i have something to compare it to.
if i listen to a very high quality recording on very high quality equipment then i know how it should sound.
but if you just randomly pull up to me and say hey bro cheak out my system and play some Nsync i probably wont say anythigng about your soundquality because i donno how it should sound.


but it matters when you have your favorite recordngs destroyed by cheap equipment you dont really enjoy it.
there were times when i had 4-5 different MP3 players and close to 20 pairs of headphones and in my free time i sat and listened to the difference between them.
and belive it or not there is a difference.
some headphones you wish you never touched
and there are some that once you put them on you get kinda slightly shocked by clarity and detail of sound. and those i buy lol
but not necessarily the most expensive ones.

i was comparing a pair of audio technica 200 dollar headphones and a pair of same line 500 dollar headphones and the 200 dollar pair sounded much better.
later i realized that was because the 500 dollar pair was designed for a high power headphone amp and needed alot more juice.

i have a demo cd that i made when i was in high school from my favorite tracks (bass, acoustic,etc) and have been using it since to play on every imaginable stereo i could get my hands on.
id hang out in car stereo shops id plug it in the cars i ride in and go to home theater and stuff.

and what i also did is compress the songs to different bitrates starting from 96 and all the way up to 320 for mp3
thats why i know that i can make out a difference even slightest but there is

but you will not hear it thru something like this
http://www.instructables.com/files/deriv/FA8/NVEF/FQR1HEJK/FA8NVEFFQR1HEJK.MEDIUM.jpg

Eugenics
02-21-2010, 12:02 AM
i have a set of shure e4c's and up until recently i had a pair of phonaks (got stolen). i listen to jazz, soul, etc. as well as hiphop, rock.

but as far as 'sq' listening i enjoy sia, zero 7, anthony hamilton, elsaine, etc. etc.

the shures are much less forgiving than the phonaks so a ****** rip is more noticeable. i have done little objective testing but i can tell you how many times i've been listening to a 320k rip and had to switch to the flac... never (i generally try and have both unless its hip hop)

the other issue, is that for me, you get to a point where its just good enough. most of the time i only listen critically for a few seconds at a time, the rest of the time i'm carried away in thought thinking of something else.

T3mpest
02-21-2010, 12:14 AM
All a mp3 does is cut off the top end of the music. If your getting 256k bitrates then your top end will barely be affected. Alot of ppl have poor hearing at 16k even on headphones. a 16k or higher tone in car with the engine running, yeah ****ing right.... In a car 128 and up is fine, you'll never hear it. If the lack apparent top end is noticeable above 80db's of road noise then you really must hate listening to your car at all. Ragged frequency response all over the place due to interior reflections, the entire thing woudl be practically unlistenable to someone with such good hearing, the modes present in car SWAMP what irregularites you get by using an MP3.

Eugenics
02-21-2010, 12:19 AM
All a mp3 does is cut off the top end of the music. If your getting 256k bitrates then your top end will barely be affected. Alot of ppl have poor hearing at 16k even on headphones. a 16k or higher tone in car with the engine running, yeah ****ing right.... In a car 128 and up is fine, you'll never hear it. If the lack apparent top end is noticeable above 80db's of road noise then you really must hate listening to your car at all. Ragged frequency response all over the place due to interior reflections, the entire thing woudl be practically unlistenable to someone with such good hearing, the modes present in car SWAMP what irregularites you get by using an MP3.

lol, assuming the headphones extend that high.

spudhalvorson
04-27-2010, 02:19 PM
I apologize for the lack of avatar in advance.

I am glad to see the FLAC car audio discussion rear its head again. I am a staunch supporter, but can see the positions of both sides.

On the issue of sound quality, I cannot vouch for exactly which frequencies are stet from recordings, but to my knowledge it is not only higher Hz frequencies. There appears to be an extirpation of dynamic range throughout any given lossy recording.

With many recordings the nature of the music itself can necessitate/obviate a need for better audio quality. I am a musician and I listen to progressive metal, classical, and symphony recordings where the dynamic range in the music is palpable even to untrained ears (and missed in lesser-quality recordings). However, if I'm listening to classic rock, hip-hop or something with a basic four-chord melody, then the need might not be there, it all depends.

Truly, the desire for a smoother home audio/car audio/entertainment environment comes in synergyzed simplicity. To this end, I believe FLAC can be a solution, although I am not tied to it. The alternative suggestions for transferring good-quality audio to the automobile (and not using FLAC) are accurate, but miss the larger point.

The important question is not having "good-enough" audio, the question is how to avoid converting audio files at all. In my mind, if one recording exists in your library, it should be available to you whenever you want it, without any further efforts. Apple has failed me in this regard. Optimally, recordings should be a completely uncompressed CD or WAV quality recording, with tags. These are the winning qualities of FLAC, but currently its cross-application is limited.

I understand programming language(s) and computer design, but only infuse those elements of hardware into my life that I feel will truly make it better. I use a generation 1 iPod shuffle, which works great for workouts; I’ve eschewed incorporating more sophisticated iPods including the iPhone. While I am quite impressed with devices such as the iPad, I read paper books more quickly than most, and can easily drop one in favor of another. While I could do modest Email management on an iPad (as I can on my mobile) I needn’t trouble myself with the Internet when I am out, and do quite well with the antediluvian ‘paper’ technology.

These things being considered, note I have a massive audio collection. I realized my audio tastes were ever-evolving, but did not want to house an enormous collection of CDs. Having roughly 500 CDs and 70 DVDs in a nice cabinet maxed out in space, I long ago I discovered the wonders of the library. I live in the Los Angeles Basin, and hold no less than 15 different libraries’ cards. I’ve been able to acquire many out-of-print recordings that would have cost more money than I could normally rationalize (none of which would have gone to the original artists). I now have these albums at my fingertips, but only at home, on my computer. I do not ‘back-up’ all my albums on FLAC, but I would love grab them on the fly. Besides, do any of us enjoy reconfiguring iTunes libraries or that extra process of selecting CDs for a trip?

Why should we not have a portable hard drive, accessible by an automotive head unit? It seems a logical progression to me. For now, a car PC seems the only real option, but does seem to be overkill. Additionally, it can run a higher theft risk, whereas head units… are only head units. We live in a society that is always looking for an opportunity to sell you the clothes you are already wearing. Do you live in a ‘shielded apartment’ with poor wiring and bad OTA reception? You’ll need to purchase cable to receive the regular television signals you pay for with tax dollars, and even more for the free HDTV you would receive with a decent signal. The average smart mobile phone incurs an extra $400 in extra application purchases in the first 60 days, so much for that rebate. Were FLAC to be mainstreamed (and it still might be), the ease of pilfering the consumer for inadequate audio files (Amazon, iTunes) might go the way of Bakelite. Say wha?!

headless
04-27-2010, 10:48 PM
Just saying...my empeg is still playing flacs with a 500gb hd in it and on-the-fly playlist building and searching...runs a linux kernel and has a web server. Can accomodate 2 laptop harddrives. Works just like a head unit, without a cd player. Only downside is it doesn't have a dedicated sub out or built-in crossovers. Easy to deal with by using it to push aux-in to a better HU.

gunz4me2
04-28-2010, 12:02 AM
I'm lazy... If I happen to come across content in FLAC, I'll just use dBPowerAmp to convert it to Apple Lossless or AAC then slap it on the iPod.

For the most part, I use Exact Audio Copy to rip my personal CDs to WAV then convert from there. If the content is something that I wish to retain in lossless, I will convert it to Apple Lossless. Sadly, even Apple Lossless is a compromise sometimes because I do have some 96 kHz 24 bit vinyl conversions that I have to down sample to be able to play on my ipod through the 9887.

On the other hand, that brings me to a question that has been repeated many times throughout the thread... Can anyone truly tell the difference between CD, Lossless, AAC, and MP3s that are encoded properly in a vehicle traveling down the road? The only reason I leave certain content in Lossless format is because my car isn't the sole source of listening.

While it would be nice to have FLAC support in the automobile, there are very few portable media devices that support it and virtually NO head units that control them. Sure, it would be nice to have something that reads FLAC from an external hard drive or a thumb drive; but most head units **** at navigating through folders upon folders filled with music files.

Going further, one MUST again realize that we are talking about CAR AUDIO here that is subject to 60 dB or greater noise floors along with all kinds of extraneous variables outside of one's control to interfere with the quality of sound while traveling down the highway. I don't know about anyone else here, but sitting in my car parked for hours and hours upon end listening to music is NOT something that I do.

KyleBechtold
04-28-2010, 12:10 AM
so you are asking for lossless.. hmm.. what setup do you have? without top of the line speakers and deadening you won't tell the difference.. are you going to sit in your driveway with the engine off rocking out? doubtful.. if so you need a nice ht setup to chill in the house with..

raverx3m
04-29-2010, 09:41 PM
what i have is not relevant...
i wouldnt be starting this topic if i had an AIWA boombox at home and a pair of sony explode speakers in the car.

i do have a nice set monitor audio floor standing speakers with yamaha amp.
and my FLAC collection is growing very quick as im REconverting all my cds to flack instead of MP3.
i use seagate Hometheater+ to store it and play it(optical out)

i have a full system in the car as well that i spent close to 2 years putting together untill i was satisfied with sound.
it it is sound dead to the point where i can turn up my fronts as far as they can handle without any rattles or distortion.
the speakers im using for woofers
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e380/raverx3m/forums/IMG_0641Small.jpg

and i do sit in the driveway rocking out because i live in appartment and car is the only place i can relax and turn up my favorite song.
and belive me i do turn it up to 95% of the head unit volume and have clean sound with every detail.

raverx3m
04-29-2010, 09:52 PM
the main idea behind this whole topis is to make it easier for people to use their FULL quality recordings.
think about it.
you own a cd you own an ipod, you own a car stereo and a home theater with a HD.

you can of course use a cd fro everything but then why do people buy MP3 players and ipods and all kinds of digital players CONVENIENCE!!!!!!

that turns into a big INCONVENIENCE when you want to enjoy same quality music in ur car, in your home theater, in your portable.

you either have to store all your music in each format or convert it every time you want to upload it to a different device.

convert to ALAC for ipod but you have to go thru gai-tunes to do anything.
convert to flac for cowon etc
convert to MP3 for car USB thimb drive
etc

yes of course you can use WAV. but its a big file that DOESNT support name tags.

moss
04-30-2010, 12:59 AM
I run a DEX-P99RS.

I download ONLY FLAC and convert them to apple lossless using XLD. No more scratched CD's and all of that crap.

"The DEX-P99RS features a high-end first: a direct digital bit pipe from the iPod/iPhone to the DSP and DAC. What does this mean? For the first time, you can use an iPod as source material, without sacrificing sound quality.

The key is using Apple Lossless (ALAC) to "rip" all of your music. The result is identical to the same output from an audio CD - but you can store your entire music library on the iPod, instead of just a single album!"

moss
04-30-2010, 01:00 AM
And yes, it sounds JUST as good as burning FLAC to cd's.

nateberrier
04-30-2010, 12:20 PM
after investing in an active HU I find that I dont like listening to anything out of my aux port, usb port or the radio. 320kbps is ok sometimes though. im spoiled and besides my ipod wouldnt hold shiiiiit if i used flac

JimJ
04-30-2010, 06:03 PM
if so you need a nice ht setup to chill in the house with..

What do you need a home theater for to listen to music? :confused:

raverx3m
04-30-2010, 08:03 PM
ipod still decodes the music to pcm format and then sends it to the unit.
as opposed to flac would be decoded by the headunit itsself.
i belive that ipod still uses sound processing "on the way out" to sweeten up the sound a lil bit...

im glad that ipod is working for you moss i have nothing against it hardware wise its a great player.
but i dont like the copyright BS and the fact that you have to go thru itunes for everything.
and the fact that it suppors only few formats that are used mostly by apple products.

Gyakusetsu
11-15-2010, 07:21 PM
The answer is simple. I dare you to hear a difference between a FLAC file and a 192kbps mp3 while you're doing 75 down the highway.

Unless your car is an anechoic chamber on wheels, chances are you won't be able to tell. I sure as hell can't tell the difference in a brand new CD and my Zune (toting music in 192kbps mp3) that's hooked in through an RCA input.

:fyi:

Problem is, most people aren't going 75MPH down the highway at any given time...

I usually just take back roads with minimal noise, and since I have a newer car, the noise that does come from traffic/my engine is VERY minimal... in fact, with the air and everything off, it's **** silent in my car going 30 down a normal street. Some of the best moments I can imagine are when I'm parked and listening to music.

And since when does anyone listen to music in a totally silent and controlled environment anyway unless they're making it? Sound quality is ALWAYS important. I'm not going to compromise the art I listen to just because "most people can't tell the difference" ...that's bullshit. The digital audio file should NOT be the only limiting factor here.

Not to mention, CD/FLAC quality was DESIGNED to fully cover the range of human hearing... so its not like something better is going to come around, because there can't physically be anything better (though higher samplerates/bit-depths exist, they're mostly only used by professionals or people with $50,000 headphones). Why wouldn't a manufacturer of audio products want to exploit this?



And I agree with the OP... Since when is having less than a TB of memory difficult? I have 2 and plan on getting one more when I get a spare $30 :rolleyes:


Alas, I am going to concede and just load up a usb-powered external HD to a Pioneer DEH3200UB deck and with .wav files. No tags, but I prefer to use the file hierarchy system anyway, so tags are pointless. I kept thinking that the flac problem was due to processors or DACs on head units being very limited, but since they support wav, they would easily be able to support flac with minimal effort.

I can imagine—one day—being able to play DVD-A quality 5.1 surround sound in a car. So.. many.. samples.. per.. second!

hatedonmostly
11-15-2010, 07:34 PM
flac is pointless /thread

enjoy wasting your hard drive space, noobs

Gyakusetsu
11-15-2010, 07:41 PM
enjoy wasting your hard drive space, noobs

Drive space is cheap and easy to add if you're of reasonable intelligence. Totally moot for a younger mind.

Obviously you don't care about that kind of quality, but I do... so stop calling me a noob when you're retarded ears can't even tell when something has been compressed or not while my OCD ears hear a metallic Mpeg block in a song and cringe.

James Bang
11-15-2010, 07:46 PM
HDD space is cheap now.

flac for toyota/lexus:
Video,Audio Information Solutions for Toyota and Lexus (iPod integration,XM and Sirius SAT radio integration,MP3 integration,Auxiliary input) (http://www.multimedialinq.com/vml.php)

hatedonmostly
11-15-2010, 07:49 PM
Drive space is cheap and easy to add if you're of reasonable intelligence. Totally moot for a younger mind.

Obviously you don't care about that kind of quality, but I do... so stop calling me a noob when you're retarded ears can't even tell when something has been compressed or not while my OCD ears hear a metallic Mpeg block in a song and cringe.

"'My are' retarded ears"? :rolleyes:


I'm not going to compromise the art I listen to just because "most people can't tell the difference" ...that's bullshit. The digital audio file should NOT be the only limiting factor here.

You can't tell the difference. So again, regardless of how expensive hard drive storage is, if the end result provides no benefit, then it is pointless. Period.

But hey, don't let me steer you wrong, buddy! It can be done, so waste your time and money putting .flac in the car just so I can say I told you so.

VWBobby
11-15-2010, 11:42 PM
Now the difference between 320 Kbps and CD-Audio might be minute, but 192-256Kbps, YES you can hear a huge difference!
If you can't hear a difference between CD quality, Mp3 (up to 256kbps) or FLAC.....then compressed audio is for you! Personally, I CAN hear a difference and I have partial hearing loss from years of working on engines and playing metal guitar.
I have albums recorded in FLAC format (Nine Inch Nails) that are even better than CD-Quality because they have information in them that can be reproduced on 5.1/7.1 surround.
I repeat, if you can't hear the difference, compressed audio is for you!

FLAC in the car would only be useful if you were sitting still trying to reproduce a home theater/concert type sound. Not useful while driving at high speeds.

hatedonmostly
11-16-2010, 01:16 AM
All of my .mp3s are V0 and 320. No degradation of sound whatsoever.

niuphan
11-20-2010, 12:20 PM
HDD space is cheap now.

flac for toyota/lexus:
Video,Audio Information Solutions for Toyota and Lexus (iPod integration,XM and Sirius SAT radio integration,MP3 integration,Auxiliary input)

That VAIS device looks incredible. EXACTLY what I need for my car(s). If I owned a Toyota, I would buy one immediately. Please make one for Honda's. I would buy two of them.

All of you people hating on FLAC should find another thread. I don't care if you can't tell the difference. I care about sound quality. And 95% of my 1 TB collection of music is in FLAC format. It is a complete waste of my time and resources to convert lossless files to mp3. It's a waste of hard drive space and to carry multiple file types of the same song. You have been conditioned by the mainstream that mp3 is king. How would you like it if no car stereos played lossy files like mp3?

People who can't tell the difference between flac and mp3 don't listen to much live audio. For live audience recordings, the difference is unquestionable.

gunz4me2
11-20-2010, 02:38 PM
If you think FLAC eats up hard drive space, you better hope that you don't get into multi-channel DVD-A (DVD Audio). Also, I prefer to have the highest possible level of quality because my vehicle isn't the only place I listen to music.

Also, I wonder if those saying there isn't a difference between the MP3 and the CD mostly listen to brick wall compressed "music" produced within the last 10 years? Once the dynamic range has been squeezed out of the music, there is almost no point in buying the CD because the mp3 is just another crappy iteration of a crappy production.

ezduzit
02-01-2011, 02:48 PM
I can feel the difference between 320 kbps MP3 and CD Audio or Flac. It is not as relaxed a sound. I am not trying to have the loudest car stereo in existance (the dark side). I just want one that approaches my home stereo listening experience in some ways.

In addition I want one format that I listen to everywhere. I am only going to use Flac in my home. Why should I translate everything to listen to it with a slightly different sound (that I am not found of) in my car? The above arguments are silly.

It would be nice to have Flac supported by my head unit where I could plug in my portable 1TB USB drive and have the majority of my collection available simply, easily and comparatively inexpensively.

This functionality is now available for your home with the Seagate Theater+. It was on sale from NewEgg for $50. It has both analog and digital out and supports a wide arrary of digital video and audio formats including Flac. It plays my music collection via the wireless network (it has Ethernet as well) in my home directly from my audio workstation. This is main stream for the home. Why not for the car?

It is difficult to understand why Flac is not available in the head unit of a car stereo.

Wav has good quality, but it takes at least twice as much space.

sobe3yourself.
02-08-2011, 08:05 PM
its really easy to turn any FLAC file to Apple lossless and put it on your ipod

Bassin Buick
02-08-2011, 08:09 PM
Car PC. Problem solved. Doing this soon. Have the netbook , need touchscreen and usb sound card and line driver.

sobe3yourself.
02-08-2011, 08:12 PM
apple mini ftw!

niuphan
02-19-2011, 10:46 PM
its really easy to turn any FLAC file to Apple lossless and put it on your ipod


This discussion is about FLAC support in car stereos. Full support and integration in car head unit receivers. I don't own an ipod, never will, and I don't want to convert my flac collection to Apple's proprietary format. I blame Apple for half of this problem.

sobe3yourself.
02-19-2011, 10:58 PM
This discussion is about FLAC support in car stereos. Full support and integration in car head unit receivers. I don't own an ipod, never will, and I don't want to convert my flac collection to Apple's proprietary format. I blame Apple for half of this problem.

apple helped me get the most out of my system.

they made it really easy to get flac to apple lossless and onto a cd or ipod to take anywhere i want. i have it on my phone, so any speakers i listen to sound like speakers that cost 10x what they did. i dont see a problem

niuphan
02-20-2011, 09:59 AM
apple helped me get the most out of my system.

they made it really easy to get flac to apple lossless and onto a cd or ipod to take anywhere i want. i have it on my phone, so any speakers i listen to sound like speakers that cost 10x what they did. i dont see a problem

Great, I'm glad that worked for you. Sadly, for me and many others, that will not cut it.

raverx3m
03-26-2011, 10:51 PM
ipod is not a true digital connection. its converted to analog thenback to digital for processing by headunit and back to analog for rca/speaker output.
sony 2011 units are first to have true digital connection to ipod.

pioneed attempted it but had issues with it for a while and switched back to analog

raverx3m
03-26-2011, 11:12 PM
and also let me compare some things for yaal ipod lovers

32gb itouch $260<<<>>>32gb thumbdrive $40

apple way:
converting your flac collection to itunes>>>roughly about a week for me if not more. tonns of cpu usage and useless PC for a week.
my whole collection beeing copy protected by apples format now and ONLY PLAYABLE ON APPLE PRODUCTS!!!!!!!!!!!
only acessible through I-TUNES
having a useless ipod in my glovebox that i dont use for anything else
configuring reconfiguring,reorganizing playlists


the FLAC way:
no time spent converting any music(mp3 or flac)
DRAG AND DROP FROM WINDOWS EXPLORER!!!!!!!!!!! can it be any easier?
thumbdrive compatible with ANY windows based PC (which is a majority unlike apple)
thumbdrive doesnt need software updates
thumbdrive also doesnt neet to be taken out of the car every time.
thumbdrive is compatible with alot of newer models of home entertainment systems( that actually support flac already)
no need for docking stations, copy protection BS, special cables, i-compatibility issues etc
cons:
cant bring your flashdrive to starbucks and attemt to look cool while playing with it for 2 hours like iPod/iTouch/iPad/iToolbag

d77543020
03-28-2011, 12:23 AM
and also let me compare some things for yaal ipod lovers

32gb itouch $260<<<>>>32gb thumbdrive $40

apple way:
converting your flac collection to itunes>>>roughly about a week for me if not more. tonns of cpu usage and useless PC for a week.
my whole collection beeing copy protected by apples format now and ONLY PLAYABLE ON APPLE PRODUCTS!!!!!!!!!!!
only acessible through I-TUNES
having a useless ipod in my glovebox that i dont use for anything else
configuring reconfiguring,reorganizing playlists


the FLAC way:
no time spent converting any music(mp3 or flac)
DRAG AND DROP FROM WINDOWS EXPLORER!!!!!!!!!!! can it be any easier?
thumbdrive compatible with ANY windows based PC (which is a majority unlike apple)
thumbdrive doesnt need software updates
thumbdrive also doesnt neet to be taken out of the car every time.
thumbdrive is compatible with alot of newer models of home entertainment systems( that actually support flac already)
no need for docking stations, copy protection BS, special cables, i-compatibility issues etc
cons:
cant bring your flashdrive to starbucks and attemt to look cool while playing with it for 2 hours like iPod/iTouch/iPad/iToolbag

where can you get a 32 gig thumb drive for 40?

i2ain2thunder
03-28-2011, 12:47 AM
Truths: Mac is superdousche on IPODS and ITUNES no you can't relocate your media and yes you have to use their **** they're very smart about that.
MP3 is stupid and outdated caraudio needs lossless it's behind the times.
90% of music listeners aren't audiophiles and prob don't even recognize a difference between lossless and mp3 quality. Manufactures just sell to the moronic public who are content with whatever they get AS LONG AS IT'S FLASHY AND SOUNDS COOL.

davidk
06-04-2011, 02:25 PM
This thread is one of the top hits in Google for "flac car stereo", so forgive me bumping it.

So I read the thread, very amusing i-flamewar going on there.

Let's get the FLAC part out of the way, for my part I have:
* a 1.2TB music collection of 70,000+ tracks all in FLAC
* a home SqueezeBox Transporter and an analog audiophile setup (costs more than the car)
* a portable Cowon J3 player paired with Grado SR235 headphones

Disk is cheap, I don't care for the space issue... but I do care for the quality issue (at home and on the move). I've spent a lot on a great setup for audio at home, and all I want from a car setup is:
* The convenience of using my existing music collection without me re-encoding it
* No unnecessary drops in audio quality due to the setup (though I concede the shape of a car cabin makes audiophile ideals simply mind-numbingly stupid, that's before you introduce road and engine noise)
* Seamless integration with the car stereo so as to not have to connect and disconnect stuff on every journey

That's it... it's a convenience play, but when you have a collection of 70,000+ tracks then convenience matters a lot.

To the questions of why a manufacturer would add it, let me say 2 things:
1) FLAC is fully open source and doesn't require a license to implement
2) People like myself will spend a disproportionate amount on convenience, to the point that I would step from a GBP 500 unit up to a GBP 1,000 unit without batting an eyelid and I would betray any brand loyalty and try new manufacturers just for this feature <-- pretty compelling, no?

Anyhow... that's all just addressing the prior posts, now onto what I found.

I found the Parrot Asteroid. At least, it's a PC wrapped up as a hands-free and audio system based on Android OS and because Android supports FLAC then in theory so does the Parrot Asteroid.

So there is something out there, but I don't necessarily need a full hands-free, Android system... I prefer simplicity and coming from a UNIX background I like the idea of "do one thing, and do it well"... so I could settle for the Parrot Asteroid quite happily, but I would still like to know if anyone else has a commercially available in-car system that plays FLAC and beyond that has few bells and whistles.

Any informed posts welcome - though I'm sure the flamewar will continue ;)

ciaonzo
06-08-2011, 12:25 AM
Probably the best first post ever.

Moofs
06-08-2011, 02:16 AM
I havent read all 7 pages but for ipod users. U can rockbox ur 5th gen ipods, mini's, nano's etc. and they will play flac. I considered it but my headphones arent good enough to really enjoy flac compared to 320kbps mp3's.

Germ305
06-08-2011, 02:59 AM
I didnt read this whole thread...but based on FLAC vs. mp3 i found an amazing song in the process...Enjoy


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQKsKnIj4Uo

hoosierxhoosier
06-11-2011, 03:16 AM
not to mention the people that use it to back up their entire CD collections in FLAC
all of my CDs are backed up in flac but its very GAY and disappointing that i cant take any of them to my car and enjoy quality sound without bringing a stack of CDs.

i ve talked to local reps, i ve created a topic on pioneer mel forum and few other places and so far i got no results.




grow up

MisterDeadeye
06-11-2011, 03:31 AM
I don't really think it's much of a hassle to re-encode my FLAC files to Apple Lossless. For the most part, it only takes a minute or two per album, and I've got a three year old laptop.

raverx3m
09-22-2011, 03:34 AM
some of newer units are switching to aux input for ipod instead of digital usb connection.because of some issues with ipod control and headunit software.
it is much of a hassle because i have to do it every time i want to add an album
1 i dont think theres a 500gb ipod to fit my music collection.(and wav doesnt support id tag or any album information) i have more than 2 cases full of cds that i spent weeks converting and im not about to do that again.
2 i have to buy an ipod and use it as a a storage device(paying 200 dollars for a thumbdrive? right)
3 if i do convert everything to i tunes lossless im stuck with it and cant use it on any other "normal" media player
4 i dont like apple products for one and only reason and that is: purposely limiting my options so they can make more profit.
you can argue but that will not make me support that company.because its my money that im paying for that prescious piece of ipood.
if i spend money i want to get what i want not what a company tells me i can have.

xmakeafistx
09-22-2011, 08:40 AM
Did everyone just ignore that first awesome post?

He pretty much said it all imo.

ace_800
09-26-2011, 12:11 PM
The new soundstream Ingenix HU's read flac.

TheUnderFighter
09-26-2011, 12:29 PM
The new soundstream Ingenix HU's read flac.

/thread

r0llinlacs
10-04-2011, 01:56 PM
It can't just be standard flac though.

It has to be 24bit 192khz FLAC. Nothing less. And 24bit DACs that work on every input source for your regular cds and mp3s.

And for God's sake, give us at least 5v pre-outs. Especially on the double dins.

AndroidBubba
10-09-2011, 06:15 AM
I'm in the same boat.

I have 3000 CDs that I am in the process of archiving to archival electronic format....ie. FLAC. I have expensive home audio gear so keeping a single copy of the music means it stays in FLAC format.

I want to play my music in the car, at good SQ preferrably.

ipod used to be the only option - but 64GB doesn't hold much, and it requires *24 Hours* to convert the collection to AAC and load it on the ipod.

I'm out shopping for a new car, and BMW recommends just loading the files onto an SD card to be used in their OEM head-units. Never thought about it....could work......with a big enough SD card. 128GB for $180 seems the current largest. Not sure how well the album art, and how quick the searches work.....but it's cheaper than my 64GB $380 ipod.

FLAC files are approx 50-60% compressed, so a full CD would be 300-350MB - so 360 albums for $180 dollars. For those with small collections, it could work and manufacturers would be wise to add the support. I'm willing to spend $hundreds if not $1000+ for FLAC support as long as it works. I'm definately a minority, but there is money to be made by supporting FLACers.

In the meantime, I'm just trying to get good ipod integration for large collections but the **** auto manufacturers keep making it difficult to go after-market due to tight integration of auto-controls & monitoring into their OEM head-units. Bastards! :)

Any alternatives? (i.e. how to upgrade stereo w/o giving up auto-controls & monitoring?)

Thanks,
David

99chevy7.4L
10-28-2011, 12:23 AM
Well let me add a little bit to the fire. I am a home audio and car audio SQ purist. That being said MP3 is none existant to me. Yes I can tell the diff between a crummy MP3 and a good quality recording. Those that don't think there is.....go buy a Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs Original Master Recording CD. Then compare the same songs in an MP3 format. There is a diff. If you can't here you must be hard of hearing. In my home audio setup I use tube gear. For my car stereo I built a tube amp...and use McIntosh power for most everything else. FLAC would be nice in the car. But WAV's work for me. Those that can't hear a diff prob don't have a very good SQ head unit. Those that DON"T WANT to are in need of someone to show them what SQ truly is.

thatguy
11-10-2011, 01:40 AM
someone should start a petition, that we can send to manufactures.

heymynameisfred
11-29-2011, 11:40 PM
It can't just be standard flac though.

It has to be 24bit 192khz FLAC. Nothing less. And 24bit DACs that work on every input source for your regular cds and mp3s...

sorry to bump, but i was REALLY compelled. A FRIGGIN MEN TO THAT!

ds0110
12-01-2011, 07:19 PM
So lossless flac is not possible on a normal HU through the usb port with a player that supports flac (8gb sansa fuze+ with 32gb microsd)...that is very disappointing.

To gain true lossless flac at this point, there seem to be 3 options:

1. empeg (rio car mark 1/2) "daisy chained" to another HU that has an optical input. Thats ~150 for a used one on ebay, another ~150 for the HU with the optical input, more for the laptop hdds and an install that may or may not go smoothly. (trying to fit 2 din on a 04 silverado)

2. soundstream ingenix at over $500

3) carputer at over $500

And thats vs playing 320kbps mp3s with the player or usb stick through a kenwood kdc-x395 at $100. FLAC is cool and all, but $400 extra so that my highs at extreme volume dont clip?? It just doesnt seem worth it. I understand why people want to do it though, it removes a bottleneck in the system so that you are working with the absolute best source possible before exposure to other variables. I wanted to do this for years..hopefully one day it there will be more demand.

Gregulate
12-01-2011, 07:27 PM
I didn't read the whole thread, but PowerAmp on android plays FLAC w/ no issues--even searches inside .cue files for individual mp3s.

heymynameisfred
12-02-2011, 11:54 AM
yeah, ipods for the most part place apple alac too, but if you dont want to commit to apple kinda SOL.

the other issue that i ran into is that DACs arent up to par, whether its on the HU or the portable device, which kinda destroys the purpose of using flac to begin with :\

VWBobby
12-02-2011, 06:13 PM
Not to be a troll, but I agree with the people saying there's no point in lossless at 60mph. Even if the car is just idling, you would negate any need to go above 320kbps Mp3 since the noise of the engine is going to be a few DB above your "noise floor". Also, anytime you go from Digital to Analog you are going to take a dump in SQ. Some people would be going D -> A -> D -> A. Only way to have truely loss-less is by using a USB connected iPod or other device that could play FLAC or go Optical input like mentioned. Carputer is also a very viable way to get FLAC for relatively cheap.

The market is far too slim.... Only home theater or very high SQ mobile installs could even take advantage of the clarity/bandwidth.

nicejane
11-13-2012, 02:51 AM
i know a simple way to easily playback flac files on car stereo whatever the car stereo supports flac or not

but i can not provide a url in this post

so just google search Step by Step Guide on How to Play FLAC in Car Stereo or Radio

you will find the detailed guide

wanton789
11-21-2012, 01:43 PM
I know a kid who straight up youtube rips all his tracks. Doesnt even know the difference. THAT is why manufacturers don't implement FLAC.. plus many other reasons already stated

abbudi
11-29-2012, 02:13 AM
My Samsung Galaxy Siii Plays back FLAC but i can't hold more than 10 Albums in there and i use the Aux input in the car and its been great but i also join this thread and wish there was something that can play and store much more FLAC albums.
i also know that recent Samsung Tablets can play FLAC.

West
11-29-2012, 02:17 AM
FLAC is a win and so is optical out ports, I am done with buying long *** rca's.

nu2spl
11-29-2012, 02:26 AM
FLAC is a win and so is optical out ports, I am done with buying long *** rca's.

right there,optical output is what we need from head unit to amp,cant begin to explain how much cleaner it is,also its much more sensitive.what i mean is optical is louder than rca's at the same volume/output level

West
11-29-2012, 02:29 AM
right there,optical output is what we need from head unit to amp,cant begin to explain how much cleaner it is,also its much more sensitive.what i mean is optical is louder than rca's at the same volume/output level

Well its definately cleaner... the problem is that amps would need a dac... and that takes some money.

nu2spl
11-29-2012, 02:49 AM
Well its definately cleaner... the problem is that amps would need a dac... and that takes some money.

true it does take money.but they are also working on amps with micro CPU's instead of mosfets.....remember the efficiency and power output of an amp depends largely on how fast the mosfets can switch back and forth.so just imagine how fast CPU's can switch

niuphan
12-29-2012, 05:38 PM
I'll give props to JVC for adding flac support to their navigation headunits... sadly they don't fit my 04 honda accord, but I'm hoping they expand their FLAC product base. Please add flac support to one of the single-DIN receivers!

JVC Mobile Entertainment \ KW-NT300 - KW-NT300 \ Features (http://mobile.jvc.com/product.jsp?modelId=MODL029031&pathId=126&page=2)