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SicAudio
12-19-2009, 09:47 PM
got a guy on a forum ( roe ) that says a 3.75cf box with a 12.5" x 3" port needs to be 27" long for 35hz instead of 16.25" long for 35Hz

he is using 2.6cf and tuning to that wtf?

thoughts?
ideas?
anyone wanna do the math to prove it?
i say 16.25 not accounting for sub.

phemps
12-19-2009, 09:52 PM
gimme a minute ill do it on paper

SicAudio
12-19-2009, 10:01 PM
ttt

phemps
12-19-2009, 10:05 PM
it should be close to 16.25 or so. port tuning should be based on net volume. so was the 3.75 after sub and port and braciing displacements?

SicAudio
12-19-2009, 10:09 PM
for the most part yes just to get the point across. the actual volume is 3.6 after sub and double baffle

22 x 26.75 x 14 14x26.75 is double baffled.
heres the link.
http://forum.realmofexcursion.com/enclosures/66113-whats-box-tuned-new-post.html

phemps
12-19-2009, 10:12 PM
for the most part yes just to get the point across. the actual volume is 3.6 after sub and double baffle

22 x 26.75 x 14 14x26.75 is double baffled.
heres the link.
http://forum.realmofexcursion.com/enclosures/66113-whats-box-tuned-new-post.html

but the port displacement wasnt included?

SicAudio
12-19-2009, 10:15 PM
no he is accounting for only 2.6cf which is after some random port length he came up with and called it 35hz at 27" lol
even winiasd says at 27 it is 29.53hz bbp same all online port calcs say the same too. he thinks u tune from volume after the port instead of before the port. you cant tune after the port if you dont know what the port length is yet.

phemps
12-19-2009, 10:16 PM
no he is accounting for only 2.6cf which is after some random port length he came up with and called it 35hz at 27" lol
even winiasd says at 27 it is 29.53hz bbp same all online port calcs say the same too. he thinks u tune from volume after the port instead of before the port. you cant tune after the port if you dont know what the port length is yet.

ha nope. gotta get your port length from your net volume, then calculate its displacement then use that to give you your third box dimensions to account for the port displacement

gtbike900
12-19-2009, 10:18 PM
too much port area

phemps
12-19-2009, 10:19 PM
too much port area

no. if anything not enough

gtbike900
12-19-2009, 10:21 PM
37.5 for 2.7 cubes ya thats to much

phemps
12-19-2009, 10:22 PM
i was going by the what i thought was what the guy actually wanted... 3.75 cubes. even so 13 sq inch per cube isnt too much

phemps
12-19-2009, 10:22 PM
i was going by the what i thought was what the guy actually wanted... 3.75 cubes. even so 13 sq inch per cube isnt too much

gtbike900
12-19-2009, 10:25 PM
if it was 3.75 net it would need to be 16.95

gtbike900
12-19-2009, 10:25 PM
length

phemps
12-19-2009, 10:26 PM
if it was 3.75 net it would need to be 16.95

per cube?? or total port area? where are you coming up with these port area numbers?

wenn_du_weinst
12-19-2009, 10:27 PM
it's done to what steve from rd said
even though sic can't talk with out being disrespectful. I will tell you exactly what I did
I took the specs steve said to do ( I have never used any rd subs and never plan to )
then found out what the port length should be with a chamber of 2.6ft tuned to 35hz came out to 27" for me. then I built the box around the port to get to the 2.6' I needed the chamber to be

wenn_du_weinst
12-19-2009, 10:28 PM
oh and just to clarify
2.6 is not a random number it's the chamber where the sub is in not including the port
3.75 is total area including port

gtbike900
12-19-2009, 10:28 PM
imo i would run one 4 inch aero 5.56 inches long giving him 3.25 cubes appox after dis tuned at 35 but i like low port area

SicAudio
12-19-2009, 10:28 PM
ha nope. gotta get your port length from your net volume, then calculate its displacement then use that to give you your third box dimensions to account for the port displacement

exactly u use net volume to calculate for the length the 3rd final volume is vb that the sub actually has available.

every sub maker on the planet that i know of uses this formula ( robert smalls ) to do tuning.
hell even the online calculators use it and verify my tuning is correct. you can not account for an unknown volume ( port volume ) u have to have a port to know its volume to deduct from the gross to get the vb lolz.

gtbike900
12-19-2009, 10:30 PM
per cube?? or total port area? where are you coming up with these port area numbers?

16.95 was the length for the current design if it was really 3.75 cubes net

phemps
12-19-2009, 10:30 PM
length

yea thats what i said it would be close to before i never did the exact calculation. but the problem was he was going by the volume before his port displacement. he needs to 16. 96 or whatever you said with a net volume of 3.75. box needs to be reworked

SicAudio
12-19-2009, 10:32 PM
gt was saying 16.95 length not area

volume is not gross minus port it is gross minus bracing sub ect..
useable vb is minus everything

phemps
12-19-2009, 10:32 PM
exactly u use net volume to calculate for the length the 3rd final volume is vb that the sub actually has available.

every sub maker on the planet that i know of uses this formula ( robert smalls ) to do tuning.
hell even the online calculators use it and verify my tuning is correct. you can not account for an unknown volume ( port volume ) u have to have a port to know its volume to deduct from the gross to get the vb lolz.

trooofff. your need more boxx recalculate your box by taking the port and finding its displacement then add that to the sub displacement, and bracing displacement, and your net volume, and you have your gross. thats how you get your last box number i usually figure out my depth last

gtbike900
12-19-2009, 10:32 PM
i like little boxes with little port keeps box rise down and gives cone control and smaller port play lows better

phemps
12-19-2009, 10:34 PM
i like little boxes with little port keeps box rise down and gives cone control and smaller port play lows better

depends what your going for really...

gtbike900
12-19-2009, 10:35 PM
i have 2 6 inch aeros in my box that is 10.8 gross 9.5 net thats like 57 inch of port and it tuned to 27 my ports are 1 inch longer than stock lenght

gtbike900
12-19-2009, 10:36 PM
26.75 hrts tuning to be exact

gtbike900
12-19-2009, 10:37 PM
and i do 152.8 at 37 on 3600 clamped watts and like 151 and change at 30

SicAudio
12-19-2009, 10:41 PM
so vote then:) wenn is the guy that says i am wrong lol
no matter how u figure it or call gross vb or net minus sub or net or whatever a 3.75cf gross box is roughly 16-17" of port length at 12.5 x 3" to tune at 35hz. period lolz

RAM_Designs
12-19-2009, 10:52 PM
oh and just to clarify
2.6 is not a random number it's the chamber where the sub is in not including the port
3.75 is total area including port

2.6ft^3 with three 3" aeros = 15.75" each, plus an inch for the flares, so 16.75" each from flare to flare.


edit: nevermind I thought we were talking about three 3" aeros.

wenn_du_weinst
12-19-2009, 10:58 PM
trooofff. your need more boxx recalculate your box by taking the port and finding its displacement then add that to the sub displacement, and bracing displacement, and your net volume, and you have your gross. thats how you get your last box number i usually figure out my depth last

that is what I was saying only difference is box needs to be 2.6 not 3.75

SicAudio
12-19-2009, 10:58 PM
we dont care about all that we just want to know:
3.75 gross
after double baffle and sub it is 3.6 cf gross
port is 12.5 x 3
how long does it need to be for 35hz

thats it no aeros or other stuff.
please dont post anything but what port length u have based on that info only.

SicAudio
12-19-2009, 11:08 PM
ttt

RAM_Designs
12-19-2009, 11:14 PM
we dont care about all that we just want to know:
3.75 gross
after double baffle and sub it is 3.6 cf gross
port is 12.5 x 3
how long does it need to be for 35hz

thats it no aeros or other stuff.
please dont post anything but what port length u have based on that info only.

So 3.6ft^3 after sub displacement. 12.5"x3" port that's 27" long(like the other guy suggested) is ~.8ft^3 worth of displacement, which is a little short of the 1ft^3 he'd need to get down to the 2.6ft^3 figure he's working with. I'd personally just make the port 12.5"x3.5" and 32" long, then you'd have 2.6ft^3 tuned to 35hz(according to the carstereo.com calcs, which are right on with what winISD gives me) like what wdw was suggesting. 3.75ft^3 with a 12.5"x3" port will need to be 17" long, like you were suggesting, but apparently the 3.75ft^3 is before any displacement...correct?

Sounds like you're not accounting for port displacement. :fyi:

SicAudio
12-19-2009, 11:20 PM
carstereo .com cal says 16.36 with 3.6 volume. u cant account for the port displacement til u have a fving port to displace!

after port the box vb is 3.16

SicAudio
12-19-2009, 11:26 PM
anyone else? where is pv or fasfocus or cianzo or moebius **** it lol

RAM_Designs
12-19-2009, 11:42 PM
carstereo .com cal says 16.36 with 3.6 volume. u cant account for the port displacement til u have a fving port to displace!

after port the box vb is 3.16

You use net box volume to find port length, not gross volume. The way I do it is, let's say I have 6ft^3 to work with for a pair of 12's, and I already know my dimensions that I'm using. Basically I set aside a certain amount of volume for the port, which for something like this will be in the 1.5ft^3 range so that I can keep the net box volume that I'd need after all displacements. So now I know that I'm using 4.5ft^3 tuned to whatever I want, so I just tinker with port dimensions until I find a length that gives me the amount of displacement I need, in this case 1.5ft^3...and voila.

Also, in your argument, the program would have no idea how to account for the port that you may be building. There are too many other variables that will determine how much space your port is taking up(ie: thickness of wood, doubled up port walls, number of exposed sides inside the box, turns, etc.).

SicAudio
12-19-2009, 11:45 PM
so verify that or prove or disprove the finding i have.

better yet how long does the port need to be in a box that is 3.6cf if the port is 12.5 x 3" and tuning needs to be 35hz.

SicAudio
12-19-2009, 11:47 PM
Fb = 0.159*SQRT[(Av*(1.84*10^8)]/(Vb*1728*[Lv+(.823*SQRT(Av))])

LV is the length of the port

AV is your port area

VB is your boxes internal volume(every displacement accounted for)

Fb will be your tuning frequency once you work the formula through.

SicAudio
12-19-2009, 11:57 PM
The tuning frequency of the enclosure is found by knowing the internal volume of the enclosure, the cross sectional area of the port, and the length of the port. If you what you want frequency you want to tune your enclosure to then you only need to know two of these to figure out the third.

Usually the length is the one out of these three that is found out last. What frequency you are tuning should be found out either by manufacturer's recommendations or by designing an enclosure in a design program. Once you know what frequency you want to tune to you will need to know the cross sectional area of the port. This is determined by how much air velocity is going through the port as well as the space available. You want a air velocity through the port low enough that you do not have port noise. You can figure out what cross sectional area to use the same two ways as the tuning frequency.

RAM_Designs
12-20-2009, 12:03 AM
better yet how long does the port need to be in a box that is 3.6cf if the port is 12.5 x 3" and tuning needs to be 35hz.

I already answered that.

As for my evidence: http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:mriChcANXMIJ:www.clubknowledge.com/Car_Audio_FAQ/archives/4633.html+use+net+volume+to+determine+port+length&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

"We use Vb. Vb is the net box volume of airspace inside the box, after we subtract sub and port displacement values. "
"In all of these formulas to calculate port length, you're supposed to use the net internal volume."


It's also good to use common sense. If you think that you are supposed to use box volume before port displacement, then I can come up with a design that will yield negative box volume. How about a 1ft^3 box uned to 20hz with an 8" aeroport? It'll need to be 332" long, which as I'm sure you know will be more than 1ft^3 worth of displacement. A program cannot account for things like this, or what I mentioned before about variables that are involved with the port itself.

RAM_Designs
12-20-2009, 12:09 AM
Fb = 0.159*SQRT[(Av*(1.84*10^8)]/(Vb*1728*[Lv+(.823*SQRT(Av))])

LV is the length of the port

AV is your port area

VB is your boxes internal volume(every displacement accounted for)

Fb will be your tuning frequency once you work the formula through.

Bingo bango.

SicAudio
12-20-2009, 12:10 AM
and everyone on roe says u use after port displacement (VB ) to tune it but how the hell do u have net displacement without a port yet lolz

RAM_Designs
12-20-2009, 12:11 AM
and everyone on roe says u use after port displacement (VB ) to tune it but how the hell do u have net displacement without a port yet lolz

I already answered that. You must not be reading.

RAM_Designs
12-20-2009, 12:17 AM
and everyone on roe says u use after port displacement (VB ) to tune it but how the hell do u have net displacement without a port yet lolz

Also, you don't have to have a set gross volume either. I can be set on a 3.5ft^3 box tuned to 32hz and I'll just use whatever port dimensions I want, find the length, then find the volume...add that to the 3.5ft^3 that I'm set on having for my sub, and just build my box based the 3.5ft^3 + port displacement.

SicAudio
12-20-2009, 12:19 AM
I already answered that.

As for my evidence: http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:mriChcANXMIJ:www.clubknowledge.com/Car_Audio_FAQ/archives/4633.html+use+net+volume+to+determine+port+length&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

"We use Vb. Vb is the net box volume of airspace inside the box, after we subtract sub and port displacement values. "
"In all of these formulas to calculate port length, you're supposed to use the net internal volume."


It's also good to use common sense. If you think that you are supposed to use box volume before port displacement, then I can come up with a design that will yield negative box volume. How about a 1ft^3 box uned to 20hz with an 8" aeroport? It'll need to be 332" long, which as I'm sure you know will be more than 1ft^3 worth of displacement. A program cannot account for things like this, or what I mentioned before about variables that are involved with the port itself.

but it wouldnt be if you used a 2" port which is more realistic.
and also the people in that thread u posted said they use 12volts calculators doin git to find it the way 12volt says also agrees with me :)

SicAudio
12-20-2009, 12:22 AM
every possible software that everyone uses and every online calculator i can find all say the same thing net volume is after all ports and bracing ect it is the "useable airspace" and can not be used to tune the sub enclosure. it is an unknown. u dont have a net volume til after u have a port.

wenn_du_weinst
12-20-2009, 12:24 AM
dude sic you have argued with 30 people now your wrong get over it

RAM_Designs
12-20-2009, 12:28 AM
but it wouldnt be if you used a 2" port which is more realistic.
That doesn't matter. If I wanted to have a box like that, how would I do it? According to your logic, it's impossible.


and also the people in that thread u posted said they use 12volts calculators doin git to find it the way 12volt says also agrees with me :)
The 12V calc isn't the issue at hand here, you're missing the point. The point is that the volume used in the calcs is net volume, after ALL displacements(this includes port displacement).
You're using gross volume(or close to it since you subtracted sub displacement). Even in the link you posted on roe as your "proof" had TommyK saying exactly what I'm saying. In case you missed it, I'll quote it for you.

"The easy way that I calculate up a NET enclosure is like this.

1) Figure out what net volume you want
2) Figure out the port size and length needed to tune it to what you want
3) Figure out the port displacement
4) Add 1&3 together
5) Design a box that has that much gross airspace"

wenn_du_weinst
12-20-2009, 12:31 AM
well thanks everybody for clarifying it I would have been pissed if I had been designing boxes wrong for 10 years and would have had to talk to the guys who taught me

Johnny Law.Lulz
12-20-2009, 12:32 AM
lol at this. Brought the CACO dweller out cuz you pissed him off.

RAM_Designs
12-20-2009, 12:32 AM
every possible software that everyone uses and every online calculator i can find all say the same thing net volume is after all ports and bracing ect it is the "useable airspace" and can not be used to tune the sub enclosure. it is an unknown. u dont have a net volume til after u have a port.

Not true. I want my net volume to be 2ft^3. I plug in 2ft^3 and find out my port length. I add the port volume to my 2ft^3 in order to find out how big I need to make the box...that simple.

RAM_Designs
12-20-2009, 12:33 AM
Face it sic, you made this thread thinking you were pwning some noobs at roe, when in fact you were wrong. You're generally a **** anyways, so I'm not really surprised that you came in here trying to come off as this holy dispenser of box tuning knowledge. You're like that in a lot of your posts, when you act like you know more than everyone and talk down to them...kinda caught up to you here, huh?

SicAudio
12-20-2009, 12:34 AM
That doesn't matter. If I wanted to have a box like that, how would I do it? According to your logic, it's impossible.

external port :)

The 12V calc isn't the issue at hand here, you're missing the point. The point is that the volume used in the calcs is net volume, after ALL displacements(this includes port displacement). the calculator doesnt know the port yet so if it doesnt how is still right? based on ur way of doing it?
You're using gross volume(or close to it since you subtracted sub displacement). how do you know the port volume without having 1 to account for in the calculator?
the calculator is set up to walk u thru it step by step in order of calculations and figuring box volume comes before figuring the port. so explain that ?

Even in the link you posted on roe as your "proof" had TommyK saying exactly what I'm saying. In case you missed it, I'll quote it for you.

"The easy way that I calculate up a NET enclosure is like this.

1) Figure out what net volume you want
2) Figure out the port size and length needed to tune it to what you want
3) Figure out the port displacement
4) Add 1&3 together
5) Design a box that has that much gross airspace"

now do that in order!
if a sub needs 2 cf ok i know my net is now 2cf
figure out what port i need and the length ect
then figure what it displaces
then add that to the net
i got gross box ect.
how exactly do u tune to an unkmown volume? thats the point i am asking to be clarified in simple english
and **** u wenn i didnt say **** in ur thread ****** so dont do it in mine.

RAM_Designs
12-20-2009, 12:37 AM
now do that in order!
if a sub needs 2 cf ok i know my net is now 2cf
figure out what port i need and the length ect
then figure what it displaces
then add that to the net
i got gross box ect.
how exactly do u tune to an unkmown volume? thats the point i am asking to be clarified in simple english
and **** u wenn i didnt say **** in ur thread ****** so dont do it in mine.
You're really bad at reading comprehension, aren't you? You just said the sub needs 2ft^3 net, which is after ALL displacements. THAT IS WHAT YOU USE TO FIND YOUR PORT LENGTH, IT'S WHAT YOU PLUG INTO THE CALCS FOR CHRIST'S SAKE.

wenn_du_weinst
12-20-2009, 12:39 AM
lol at this. Brought the CACO dweller out cuz you pissed him off.

I'm on roe most the time now caco is getting to whiny for me

Johnny Law.Lulz
12-20-2009, 12:40 AM
HAHA. It got whiney for me when the admin/mod staff turned into hipocrits (sp?)

wenn_du_weinst
12-20-2009, 12:43 AM
I still don't know how you got banned and I only have one timed out infraction
don't remember why I think I told some one to kill them self

RAM_Designs
12-20-2009, 12:45 AM
Also Sic, you just went against your own port tuning expertise when you answered my little conundrum with "external port." Better yet, answer me this: what's the internal box volume of a 3ft^3 box tuned to 35hz with a 6" internal aeroport, and one with an external 6" aeroport? Don't even take sub and bracing into consideration in this case, just plain and simple port question. If net volume didn't include port displacement, then you'd have to be restricted to using either internal or external ports only, since going one way or the other would change box volume after port displacement(or not change it).

Johnny Law.Lulz
12-20-2009, 12:45 AM
I got a week ban for calling out Forceww's worthless contributions, the way nismo's acted and all and then i came here and made a thread so they banned me permanetly. I think itsfunny how the staff there bashes this site there but i cant do the same. But this site generates more sales for me then they did.

wenn_du_weinst
12-20-2009, 12:46 AM
I usually just lurk on here don't post to often

Johnny Law.Lulz
12-20-2009, 12:48 AM
I see your name all the time but you never post lol.

SicAudio
12-20-2009, 12:49 AM
You're really bad at reading comprehension, aren't you? You just said the sub needs 2ft^3 net, which is after ALL displacements. THAT IS WHAT YOU USE TO FIND YOUR PORT LENGTH, IT'S WHAT YOU PLUG INTO THE CALCS FOR CHRIST'S SAKE.

wow you didnt understand what i meant at all dude lol. nevermind i will do it my way it has always worked great.

RAM_Designs
12-20-2009, 12:56 AM
wow you didnt understand what i meant at all dude lol. nevermind i will do it my way it has always worked great.

No, your logic makes no sense at all. The step by step way that I quoted works fine. For some reason you think that gross volume is important when tuning...it isn't. If you do it your way you have been tuning a good 3-5hz higher than you intended to do. Like I said, how can a calculator figure in how you're building the port? It can't. Your way is wrong and flawed in many ways...I can sit here and tear holes in your argument for as long as you want me to. It's wrong, deal with it, and start doing it right...I certainly hope you don't build boxes and designs for other people. :eek:

RAM_Designs
12-20-2009, 01:11 AM
Here, I'll even do a step by step with real world numbers.

-I have a pair of 10" AA Assassins that I want to put in a 4ft^3 box tuned to 30hz.
-I have already determined that I'll be using a 14x48" face with whatever depth I need to get the volume I need.
-I'll use a side firing 8" aeroport to make this easier without having to deal with a slot port with turns in it.
-Plugging the 4ft^3 figure and 30hz tuning into the carstereo.com calc, I get a hair under 32" port length. This is equal to slightly under 1ft^3 port displacement, so let's say port/sub displacement is about 1.25ft^3.
-So now I know that my gross box volume needs to be roughly 5.25ft^3, so I plug my 48x14 figures into carstereo.com's box volume calculator, along with my desired gross volume(5.25ft^3) and wood thickness(.75"), and find out that I need the box to be 17-1/8" deep to have a 5.25ft^3 gross volume, which after port and sub displacement, will give me 4ft^3 tuned to 30hz.

RAM_Designs
12-20-2009, 01:13 AM
Anyways, I'm done arguing with a brick wall. It's been explained as simple as can be a few times now.

mrezstreet
12-20-2009, 01:24 AM
Ok if sub A needs to have 2.^ft and I want it at 32hz I do mostly slot so I have L and W already fixed fing needed lenth....map it on box if it bends and find lenth of the port wall x .75 for thikns and wall higth...add dis of sub bracing ect end up with 2.75^ now and I know know the deepth of box...its tuned to 32hz on 2^ cuz that's after disp! If you tune before port dis you will ALWAYS be off ( not a lot in some cases) but for spl that why we tune to mic not paper

mrezstreet
12-20-2009, 01:32 AM
If you are using pipe or areo's truth is that the dis of the ports most of the time won't change tuning enuff to hear it. But slot ports not so much. I have ports 12.5" tall by 25" long. .15-.25^ ft can be a few hz that kills ur subs.

SicAudio
12-20-2009, 01:33 AM
Here, I'll even do a step by step with real world numbers.

-I have a pair of 10" AA Assassins that I want to put in a 4ft^3 box tuned to 30hz.
-I have already determined that I'll be using a 14x48" face with whatever depth I need to get the volume I need.
-I'll use a side firing 8" aeroport to make this easier without having to deal with a slot port with turns in it.
-Plugging the 4ft^3 figure and 30hz tuning into the carstereo.com calc, I get a hair under 32" port length. This is equal to slightly under 1ft^3 port displacement, so let's say port/sub displacement is about 1.25ft^3.
-So now I know that my gross box volume needs to be roughly 5.25ft^3, so I plug my 48x14 figures into carstereo.com's box volume calculator, along with my desired gross volume(5.25ft^3) and wood thickness(.75"), and find out that I need the box to be 17-1/8" deep to have a 5.25ft^3 gross volume, which after port and sub displacement, will give me 4ft^3 tuned to 30hz.

no that i do understand which is all i was asking for thank you finally lolz
i just wanted a simple explanation how you do it that was all.

RAM_Designs
12-20-2009, 01:35 AM
no that i do understand which is all i was asking for thank you finally lolz
i just wanted a simple explanation how you do it that was all.

All I did was use real world numbers; it's still the same process that you said didn't make sense, for some reason.

1) Figure out what net volume you want
2) Figure out the port size and length needed to tune it to what you want
3) Figure out the port displacement
4) Add 1&3 together
5) Design a box that has that much gross airspace"

SicAudio
12-20-2009, 01:38 AM
i just wanted it laid out i couldnt wrap my head around making the box that way i have always figured what my max space i could use was then adjusted the tuning to that while trying to keep enough vb for the sub, make box smaller ect whatever it took.

RAM_Designs
12-20-2009, 01:39 AM
i just wanted it laid out i couldnt wrap my head around making the box that way i have always figured what my max space i could use was then adjusted the tuning to that while trying to keep enough vb for the sub, make box smaller ect whatever it took.

But you said that you don't take port displacement into account when finding the port length.

mrezstreet
12-20-2009, 01:47 AM
All I did was use real world numbers; it's still the same process that you said didn't make sense, for some reason.

1) Figure out what net volume you want
2) Figure out the port size and length needed to tune it to what you want
3) Figure out the port displacement
4) Add 1&3 together
5) Design a box that has that much gross airspace"

Sic...if you are going for max...then working off that...you can get close...but if you want it on the money^^^^ then *sing* this is how we do it....

SicAudio
12-20-2009, 02:29 AM
yeah i knbow i just wanted to know both ways is all. the whole thing got blown way out of proportion. 3.75 minus all displacement ( including port!! ) came to 3.16 12.5x3" x 16.25 is 37.5 hz thats what my math said and 3.16 is a ton better vb for a 12" rd alpha than a meesly 2.6 was gonna be so...................
i get flamed for that lolz

RAM_Designs
12-20-2009, 03:04 AM
yeah i knbow i just wanted to know both ways is all. the whole thing got blown way out of proportion. 3.75 minus all displacement ( including port!! ) came to 3.16 12.5x3" x 16.25 is 37.5 hz thats what my math said and 3.16 is a ton better vb for a 12" rd alpha than a meesly 2.6 was gonna be so...................
i get flamed for that lolz
But the point is that you are doing it wrong, yet still insist that it's "ok," and in fact "better" in this instance. Whether or not 3.16 tuned to 37.5hz would be better or not is irrelevant, I don't know why you even cared to mention it. The fact is that you're doing it wrong, and blowing it off like it doesn't matter and trying to play the victim just makes you look immature. Don't forget that you were the one who started the thread in an attempted to get others to come in and bash someone from roe for not knowing what they were talking about, when in reality you were the one who was wrong.


Also, as your port displacement gets bigger for a given gross volume, the design that you come up with gets more and more out of whack. Good luck with that...

SicAudio
12-20-2009, 02:44 PM
i went of a set gross volume of 3.75 minus all displacement leaving 3.16 which is 12.5x3x16.25 for 37.5 hz how is that wrong?
and i wasnt trying to bash anyone pretty funny i tell wenn i posted his ? here as well and all his friends come out of the wood work to flame me lol several people on the roe forum hashed it out with me and i understand how u do it i do it a bit dif and still come out to the same tune as they did so where is the issue? i go from max gross and deduct from that u go from minimum vb and add to that its the same thing just 2 dif approaches, maybe like schmitty told me it is a miscommunication of terminolgy is all.

RAM_Designs
12-20-2009, 03:07 PM
i went of a set gross volume of 3.75 minus all displacement leaving 3.16 which is 12.5x3x16.25 for 37.5 hz how is that wrong?
and i wasnt trying to bash anyone pretty funny i tell wenn i posted his ? here as well and all his friends come out of the wood work to flame me lol several people on the roe forum hashed it out with me and i understand how u do it i do it a bit dif and still come out to the same tune as they did so where is the issue? i go from max gross and deduct from that u go from minimum vb and add to that its the same thing just 2 dif approaches, maybe like schmitty told me it is a miscommunication of terminolgy is all.

Here is the OP from roe:

"need a favor
whats this tuned to
http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/8986/ported12v2.png
port is 27" long
total volume is 3.75
volume after port is 2.6"

He's telling you that the net volume is 2.6ft^3, and that the port is 27" long. I don't know why you're arguing the point of 3.16ft^3 tuned to 37.5hz. It's not the question he was asking. What he wanted to know what it was tuned to. You responded at roe with 28.XXhz, which is incorrect. Port length was already given to you(so I don't know why you're bringing up the 16.5" or whatever port length), but you plugged in 3.75ft^3 into the port calcs instead of 2.6ft^3. You are doing it wrong, plain and simple. You are not doing it the same way as me, just in a different order. You are not putting the net volume into the port calculators, which is why you came up with 28hz when you used 3.75ft^3 instead of 35hz when using 2.6ft^3 for the net volume. Stop defending your method, it is simply wrong and not all that accurate(as you can see in this case it is nearly 7hz off when using gross volume instead of net volume).

You can not start off with gross volume, plain and simple. Gross volume is NEVER used in the port length calculations. I don't know how else to put it.

wenn_du_weinst
12-20-2009, 04:28 PM
i went of a set gross volume of 3.75 minus all displacement leaving 3.16 which is 12.5x3x16.25 for 37.5 hz how is that wrong?
and i wasnt trying to bash anyone pretty funny i tell wenn i posted his ? here as well and all his friends come out of the wood work to flame me lol several people on the roe forum hashed it out with me and i understand how u do it i do it a bit dif and still come out to the same tune as they did so where is the issue? i go from max gross and deduct from that u go from minimum vb and add to that its the same thing just 2 dif approaches, maybe like schmitty told me it is a miscommunication of terminolgy is all.the only person I know in this entire thread was worst enemy and just from caco
and I thougth you told me to get over it? so maybe try it your self

RAM_Designs
12-20-2009, 04:37 PM
the only person I know in this entire thread was worst enemy and just from caco
and I thougth you told me to get over it? so maybe try it your self

He also does not have one single person backing him and his method up in either thread. No one uses gross volume in the calcs, and if they do, they're doing it wrong.

wenn_du_weinst
12-20-2009, 04:43 PM
and that was the entire argument
I designed that box for a guy on roe using Rd's specs,
yesterday sic tells me I had it tuned to 28hz so I looked it over 3 times still get around 35
then he said to use gross well I guess (gross minus sub displacement) and I said no you have to use the chamber that the sub is in. went back and forth for a while until I made a thread on caco,smd,and roe most said right around 33hz until he started pming people to "expain" things, then he made this thread

RAM_Designs
12-20-2009, 04:45 PM
and that was the entire argument
I designed that box for a guy on roe using Rd's specs,
yesterday sic tells me I had it tuned to 28hz so I looked it over 3 times still get around 35
then he said to use gross well I guess (gross minus sub displacement) and I said no you have to use the chamber that the sub is in. went back and forth for a while until I made a thread on caco,smd,and roe most said right around 33hz until he started pming people to "expain" things, then he made this thread

Well he's doing it wrong, plain and simple. I honestly think his ego is too big to admit he had been doing it wrong for who knows how long, and built who knows how many boxes to different tunings than intended.

SicAudio
12-20-2009, 04:56 PM
yeah i have. after I talked to shmitty we went over it and my tunings are off by around 1-3 hz higher but either way i appreciate the lesson.

from the votes i am not the only 1 eiother so its a good lesson either way.

wenn_du_weinst
12-20-2009, 05:06 PM
yeah but your poll ***** ***
and who says they actually read anything?

Johnny Law.Lulz
12-20-2009, 05:11 PM
He also does not have one single person backing him and his method up in either thread. No one uses gross volume in the calcs, and if they do, they're doing it wrong.

Are you talking about me ?

RAM_Designs
12-20-2009, 05:12 PM
Are you talking about me ?

???

I was just saying that Sic had no one defending his method in the two threads...nothing else.

Pioneer~Saturn
12-20-2009, 05:49 PM
Ok, this is a mess...what are the dimensions of the enclosure, the port dimensions, and the port length? I'll tell you what youve got..

With something so straight-forward I dont see how there's so much confusion..

Johnny Law.Lulz
12-20-2009, 05:57 PM
Pioneer knows his ****. I wish he was loud though.

Pioneer~Saturn
12-20-2009, 05:59 PM
Pioneer knows his ****. I wish he was loud though.

Thanks :D Tuning to 30hz doesnt translate to loud on the meter though :( lol...but shoving people's hair down their throats is better than meter scores imo :cool: low ftw

Johnny Law.Lulz
12-20-2009, 06:02 PM
Ill sit in your quiet car for 1 hour just to **** you off. = P

Pioneer~Saturn
12-20-2009, 06:03 PM
Meh, next year after more than double the power, lower tuning (plus being all sealed off at the b-pillar), and 24% more cone area you can have a listen :cool:

Johnny Law.Lulz
12-20-2009, 06:07 PM
Your coming to Va. And i do it.

Pioneer~Saturn
12-20-2009, 06:09 PM
...you wanted to do it, you come here. lol

Johnny Law.Lulz
12-20-2009, 06:10 PM
loudest ive sat in was 142 lol.

Pioneer~Saturn
12-20-2009, 06:12 PM
lol...wow

wenn_du_weinst
12-20-2009, 06:30 PM
saturn I did the design I'll throw everything up after I take a shower

Pioneer~Saturn
12-20-2009, 06:31 PM
Sure thing, smelly :) youve done a lot of designs n such though, I think we're going to get the same specs..

wenn_du_weinst
12-20-2009, 06:54 PM
me to our stuff usually comes out pretty close
I did this like a month ago though so not sure if I remember the specs very well but here it is
let me know if I left anything out
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/wenn_du_weinst/AutoSave_ported12v1.png
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/wenn_du_weinst/AutoSave_ported12v2.png
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/wenn_du_weinst/AutoSave_ported12v3.png
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/wenn_du_weinst/AutoSave_ported12v4.png

RAM_Designs
12-20-2009, 07:09 PM
Going off of those pics, I have 3.60741ft^3 before any displacement. So roughly 3.2ft^3 after sub and those little 45's in the corners. Port displacement is ~.8ft^3, so after all displacements you have ~2.4ft^3. 2.4ft^3 with a 12.5"x3" port that's 30" long = a shade under 35hz tuning.

wenn_du_weinst
12-20-2009, 07:17 PM
well I was close thought it was 2.6 though must have added wrong

Pioneer~Saturn
12-20-2009, 07:26 PM
There's 2.81697916667 cubes of space inside the main chamber for the sub (not including the sub)...am i missing something here?..very different numbers from other people. Whats the sub displacement?

wenn_du_weinst
12-20-2009, 07:28 PM
I think they said .15 it's a 12" alpha I think
and the 45's are 1" thick point to flat

Pioneer~Saturn
12-20-2009, 07:31 PM
Ok, now that I have those 45's squared away and the sub displacement...my specs came to:

-2.6442708334 cubes net
-32.3785741hz tuning
-37.5 sq inches of port

Blue Fury
12-20-2009, 07:53 PM
Why do you think its a matter of voting? If the wrong choice gets the most votes, then it must be right? This is stupid.

And to make a thread about it to get confirmation shows that you're not sure yourself. I would want my box designer to be exactly sure of what he's doing.

Pioneer~Saturn
12-20-2009, 07:53 PM
Why do you think its a matter of voting? If the wrong choice gets the most votes, then it must be right? This is stupid.

Such is life, which is the sad thing :crap:

RAM_Designs
12-20-2009, 07:54 PM
There's 2.81697916667 cubes of space inside the main chamber for the sub (not including the sub)...am i missing something here?..very different numbers from other people. Whats the sub displacement?

I got that after going back and using the actual internal dimensions listed, adding up a 21.5"x16"x12.5" area and a 13"x3.75"x12.5" area. It's much easier going from net volume and working forward than having a finished product and having to tinker with all this crap. :D

I'm sure my rounding a guesstimating displacements didn't help any either.