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Face of Fear
12-02-2009, 12:21 AM
I wanna know if its possible to build a ported box for 2 memphis pr 12's that will fit in the back of a grand prix that can push my db's from 141.1 to somewhere around 150+. I tried this box designing program called WinISD beta and it said if I built one double sized at 55hz I'd hit anywhere from 152-154db ranging from 50-60hz, but still somehow I don't trust that program when I seen it say that. Something just seemed a little fishy. I'm pushing 700 watts through the subs. I've seen 144's hit with the subs, but im looking to see if its possible to hit 150+ with them. If anyone can help me that would be much appreciated. Thanks.

michaellane
12-02-2009, 12:25 AM
won't happen. sorry bro

k_schutte
12-02-2009, 12:32 AM
Bettendorf.... no wonder :rolleyes:

pieper88
12-02-2009, 12:34 AM
your giving iowa a bad name. come on

Face of Fear
12-02-2009, 12:34 AM
Well any ideas how i can hit at least over 144? cuz i've been stuck at 141.1 for about 4 months now and its bugging the **** outta me.

pieper88
12-02-2009, 12:38 AM
Need to know more about you setup. pics might help a lot and where are you getting meterd at by the way. Kind of want to know where some are in iowa

Face of Fear
12-02-2009, 12:40 AM
well how bout somewhere between 144-150 so im not stuck at 141.1 anymore? cuz im kinda annoyed with being at the same place no matter what i try.

Face of Fear
12-02-2009, 12:45 AM
I'm pushing 2 memphis pr's, ported enclosure(tryin to build a new one) tuned at 50hz. Crunch 2000.1 groundpounder. Eclipse cd2000 and a 12v linedriver. system is running off mflex 4guage wire.


I'm testing outta mobile wiring out in davenport, iowa.

k_schutte
12-02-2009, 12:50 AM
was that on a term lab meter?

bass-aholic
12-02-2009, 12:52 AM
new subs/box/amp? But then again if you have to ask something like this your not going to get anywhere near 150. do some research. look at some real systems on here that hit 150's and you will see what it takes.

Face of Fear
12-02-2009, 12:53 AM
**** no. they are getting a term lab before this coming summer. They got some old school tester. That could be why alot of people were hitting 150+.

PV Audio
12-02-2009, 12:54 AM
That is probably one of the worst sounding substages ever to grace my eyes. Memphis power refs off a crunch amplifier, tuned to 50hz. All you're doing there is farting. Get rid of those subs, get a good, solid 1500-2000W amp and throw that power on one GREAT 12 in a GREAT custom designed enclosure, and you'll almost certainly be hitting higher.

Face of Fear
12-02-2009, 12:54 AM
ive watched 2 m1 10 on 1000 watts hit 153.4 and they arent to much better than the pr's so hitting near 150 shouldn't be a problem at all with the right setup.

michaellane
12-02-2009, 12:56 AM
use bigger power wire, add a second battery, buy better subs, find out where ur car itself peaks instead of just building a 50hz box that won't help u get any louder, make sure ur actually getting metered on a REAL term lab meter, get a better amp, seal off your trunk...or use some kind of silencer....all of these will help you out.

also do not jus build a new box at 50hz lulz

PV Audio
12-02-2009, 12:57 AM
**** no. they are getting a term lab before this coming summer. They got some old school tester. That could be why alot of people were hitting 150+.
Then that likely means that you aren't hitting anywhere near a true 141.

k_schutte
12-02-2009, 12:57 AM
ive watched 2 m1 10 on 1000 watts hit 153.4 and they arent to much better than the pr's so hitting near 150 shouldn't be a problem at all with the right setup.

NO, you haven't don't try to lie to this forum, it won't work...

also if it was a mic meter you are probably more like 136dB on a REAL meter (Term Lab) I metered a 147.8 on the mic meter and only managed a 143.8~ on a TL with a single 15" and 2Kw~ in my cadillac

Face of Fear
12-02-2009, 12:57 AM
That is probably one of the worst sounding substages ever to grace my eyes. Memphis power refs off a crunch amplifier, tuned to 50hz. All you're doing there is farting. Get rid of those subs, get a good, solid 1500-2000W amp and throw that power on one GREAT 12 in a GREAT custom designed enclosure, and you'll almost certainly be hitting higher.

So what your saying is sell my entire system and waste money on something that ill have to spend prolly a grand or 2 on a system that still wont be good enough? Honestly if i wanted to spend the money id go with the mojo and the 4k or the 2500 watt memphis amp. I'm keeping the pr's cuz i wanna see what i can do with them. I've heard **** about them from alot of people and i wanna prove them wrong. Ive already done it with some kids that say pr's cant hit over 140. now i wanna do it with ppl that say they cant do over 145. People around where i live talk alot of **** about memphis and i wanna prove them all wrong.

basscort2009
12-02-2009, 12:59 AM
So what your saying is sell my entire system and waste money on something that ill have to spend prolly a grand or 2 on a system that still wont be good enough? Honestly if i wanted to spend the money id go with the mojo and the 4k or the 2500 watt memphis amp. I'm keeping the pr's cuz i wanna see what i can do with them. I've heard **** about them from alot of people and i wanna prove them wrong. Ive already done it with some kids that say pr's cant hit over 140. now i wanna do it with ppl that say they cant do over 145. People around where i live talk alot of **** about memphis and i wanna prove them all wrong.

yes

k_schutte
12-02-2009, 01:00 AM
So what your saying is sell my entire system and waste money on something that ill have to spend prolly a grand or 2 on a system that still wont be good enough? Honestly if i wanted to spend the money id go with the mojo and the 4k or the 2500 watt memphis amp. I'm keeping the pr's cuz i wanna see what i can do with them. I've heard **** about them from alot of people and i wanna prove them wrong. Ive already done it with some kids that say pr's cant hit over 140. now i wanna do it with ppl that say they cant do over 145. People around where i live talk alot of **** about memphis and i wanna prove them all wrong.

1. you haven't hit a 140 yet...
2. my sub/amp combo was like $400 and I could brake a 145+ with it
3. your a douche, remember you aren't talking to som dumb *** high school kids, a lot of people on here REALLY know their **** so don't try to B.S.
4. your whole setup *****... you coudl hit a true 140 I am sure but not without help



So what your saying is sell my entire system and spend my money wisely instead of buying "a name" from the local stereo shop because everyone says its the ****

pieper88
12-02-2009, 01:02 AM
I don't think your gonna see a REAL 150 on 4 gauge wire

michaellane
12-02-2009, 01:03 AM
ive watched 2 m1 10 on 1000 watts hit 153.4 and they arent to much better than the pr's so hitting near 150 shouldn't be a problem at all with the right setup.

your setup will not ever hit 150+ in any kind of box. it is not possible. also if tons of people are hitting 150+ off this old crappy meter then that means the meter is WAY OFF so if you are only hitting a 141 off this way off meter then ur prolly like a 133...and since 3db's is almost twice as loud to the ear u see how far ur setup has to go before ur anywhere near 150+.

to get to 150 go buy a HO ALT for ur car, all 0 gauge wire, do the big 3 buy a few extra batts, 2500watts, a 15" sub that's worth something, build a correct box andseal off the trunk. you will put up a decent score :)

PV Audio
12-02-2009, 01:03 AM
ive watched 2 m1 10 on 1000 watts hit 153.4 and they arent to much better than the pr's so hitting near 150 shouldn't be a problem at all with the right setup.
Being as respectful as possible, but you haven't seen nor heard a true 150+db setup. No two subs getting 500 watts each are hitting a 153.4 unless they're in some sort of tricked out horn enclosure which would be larger than the car itself. They just aren't. Three things determine your output, aside from the vehicle: speaker type, enclosure type, and input power.

I don't say cone area, because that isn't sufficient. A 10" RE MT will every day of the week score higher than a 15" Type E even though the cone area is vastly smaller. Why? Force. I'm not going to get into how speakers actually work because you probably aren't interested, but just take this away: to make lots of sound pressure, you need to move a lot of air, and that requires a large amount of motor force. That is why most SPL subwoofers have such high power handling. It isn't because you can brag that you can feed 2000W per coil, it's because when you're feeding that much power into said coil, the force being created with the magnet is going to be making some serious output.

Your PRs, as I said, aren't sufficient. If you want to get into the 150 range, you're going to need to both improve your speakers, improve your power source and improve your enclosure. The three things are not independent in the slightest, and definitely all need work to get you where you want to be. :)

k_schutte
12-02-2009, 01:04 AM
I don't think your gonna see a REAL 150 on 4 gauge wire

I don't think your going to see a 150 PERIOD on 4awg wire....

If everyoen is talking **** about your subs, don't you think there might be something to it? I personaly have never ran Memphis except for a few of there 4Kw amps but I knwo the owner of the shop up the street from me had a pair of the higher end Memphis 12's on about 1200 watts each and I beat him at the last competition by about 1.2dB IIRC... that was with my 15" and 2Kw~... in the trunk of my cadillac with all the seperation crap still between the trunk/back seat and he had his rear seat folded down and all that good stuff.

pieper88
12-02-2009, 01:06 AM
I don't think your going to see a 150 PERIOD on 4awg wire....

good call

PV Audio
12-02-2009, 01:09 AM
So what your saying is sell my entire system and waste money on something that ill have to spend prolly a grand or 2 on a system that still wont be good enough? Honestly if i wanted to spend the money id go with the mojo and the 4k or the 2500 watt memphis amp. I'm keeping the pr's cuz i wanna see what i can do with them. I've heard **** about them from alot of people and i wanna prove them wrong. Ive already done it with some kids that say pr's cant hit over 140. now i wanna do it with ppl that say they cant do over 145. People around where i live talk alot of **** about memphis and i wanna prove them all wrong.Memphis makes solid products that can get you over 150. The power refs are not them. They just aren't good enough, and yes, you will be spending over 1k easily when all is said and done if you want to even touch a 145. You're going to need a decent couple hundred dollar speaker, an even more expensive amplifier, extensive sound deadening, a custom enclosure, PROPER wiring because 4awg is not sufficient (I am using a Stinger 4AWG amp kit on my 8" sub and 300/2 amp in my car) and most importantly, the knowledge and humility to know when you've made a bad purchase and that someone might know more than you do. If you want suggestions, then please do ask. Coming in here saying things that are clearly false isn't going to get you anywhere. :)

k_schutte
12-02-2009, 01:14 AM
Coming in here saying things that are clearly false isn't going to get you anywhere. :)

X2

michaellane
12-02-2009, 01:15 AM
[QUOTE=k_schutte;6776722]I don't think your going to see a 150 PERIOD on 4awg wire....
QUOTE]

I hit a 197 on a 8gauge amp kit...

jmanpc
12-02-2009, 01:15 AM
The best way for you to get louder is to throw away all your stuff and start over with beefier equipment. :fyi:

k_schutte
12-02-2009, 01:17 AM
I don't think your going to see a 150 PERIOD on 4awg wire....


I hit a 197 on a 8gauge amp kit...

:eek: musta been runnin JL or the infamous Funky Pup

pieper88
12-02-2009, 01:17 AM
[QUOTE=k_schutte;6776722]I don't think your going to see a 150 PERIOD on 4awg wire....
QUOTE]

I hit a 197 on a 8gauge amp kit...

Yeah I farted a 209 last week after eating at pf changs

dappa5
12-02-2009, 01:18 AM
dude i sell and love memphis but the best PR set up i've ever seen was doing 146.7 on a tl

k_schutte
12-02-2009, 01:19 AM
dude i sell and love memphis but the best PR set up i've ever seen was doing 146.7 on a tl

more info for the kid... how much power, how many of what size subs, box style, vehicle, etc...

michaellane
12-02-2009, 01:20 AM
lulz that orion almost went to this kid

pieper88
12-02-2009, 01:21 AM
you know thats actually who would have bought locally

dappa5
12-02-2009, 01:23 AM
2 Pr 15's on just 1100 each in a huge ported box tun ed to 32 hz in a hyundai elantra wagon with all electrical upgrades

michaellane
12-02-2009, 01:25 AM
nuqqa isn't replying...must be butt hurt

dappa5
12-02-2009, 01:26 AM
op? u madd brah?

k_schutte
12-02-2009, 01:28 AM
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 14 (10 members and 4 guests)
k_schutte , 99grandprixGT , BoxdGM , Face of Fear , j.clark.90 , jbizzle , michaellane , nelsonmandela27 , pieper88 , PV Audio

speak...

PV Audio
12-02-2009, 01:30 AM
Oh, and please do ask questions about how to use WinISD properly. The program cannot and is not designed to tell you how loud your stereo will be. By contrast, a similar application in another program called BassBox Pro states that a SoundSplinter RL-i 8" sub will peak at 120 on 500W, while an Ascendant Audio Mayhem 18 on 2000W will not go above 128. Clearly in reality, that Mayhem would be well into the 140s while the 8 will struggle to get even near 135. My point is that the theoretical results from the program are absolutely useless unless you can understand what you're looking at. If you want help in doing so, then please, do ask. :)

PV Audio
12-02-2009, 01:32 AM
Come on guys, you know you bought some ****** equipment when you started out and now realize that it was either garbage or at least nowhere near as good as you thought it was. Hell, I bought a Alpine Type S 10" when I first came on here at age 15, threw it in a sealed enclosure then bought some useless crossover from etronics and tried to run the whole thing full range off my home receiver. I hadn't the faintest idea as to what I was doing, nor do I have the faintest idea as to how I thought that I knew what I was doing then :laugh:

dappa5
12-02-2009, 01:33 AM
Oh, and please do ask questions about how to use WinISD properly. The program cannot and is not designed to tell you how loud your stereo will be. By contrast, a similar application in another program called BassBox Pro states that a SoundSplinter RL-i 8" sub will peak at 120 on 500W, while an Ascendant Audio Mayhem 18 on 2000W will not go above 128. Clearly in reality, that Mayhem would be well into the 140s while the 8 will struggle to get even near 135. My point is that the theoretical results from the program are absolutely useless unless you can understand what you're looking at. If you want help in doing so, then please, do ask. :)
wait you mean ppl use those for more than responce curves? hunh?

nelsonmandela27
12-02-2009, 01:35 AM
if u want to get loud then dont go to mobile wiring. buy my amp and sub and ill build you a box tuned to whatever you want. and since your from bettendorf you have probly seen or sat in my car before. send me a pm since you appear to have abandoned your thread

PV Audio
12-02-2009, 01:39 AM
wait you mean ppl use those for more than responce curves? hunh?:D Yep

PV Audio
12-02-2009, 01:40 AM
if u want to get loud then dont go to mobile wiring. buy my amp and sub and ill build you a box tuned to whatever you want. and since your from bettendorf you have probly seen or sat in my car before. send me a pm since you appear to have abandoned your threadThis is probably the most shameless advertisement I have ever seen in my life.

nelsonmandela27
12-02-2009, 01:48 AM
This is probably the most shameless advertisement I have ever seen in my life.

anything to get people to stop nut hugging mobile wiring

FurbiesAndBeans
12-02-2009, 01:51 AM
OP please talk

this is entertaining :popcorn:

pieper88
12-02-2009, 01:55 AM
anything to get people to stop nut hugging mobile wiring

been there once. I'll never go back won't even sit in the parking lot

nelsonmandela27
12-02-2009, 01:58 AM
been there once. I'll never go back won't even sit in the parking lot

and whats sad is that 90% of the people in the area that have subs have mobile wiring or memphis stickers.

dappa5
12-02-2009, 01:59 AM
wait now theres nothing wrong with Memphis

pieper88
12-02-2009, 02:02 AM
well in cedar rapids everybody rocks best buy systems. especially the pos fusion bass pack:suicide:

nelsonmandela27
12-02-2009, 02:06 AM
im not talking bad about memphis but when the general population of where you live thinks its the best audio equipment in the world because theyve never heard of audioque, fi, re, dd, dc, audiopulse, or anything considered to be high end by the rest of the world, it starts to **** me off.

dappa5
12-02-2009, 02:07 AM
yeah but memphis is fairly mainstream thats all
and it effin rocks lol

SicAudio
12-02-2009, 02:16 AM
they used to rock now they are decent but not near as good as they were. the mojo is no where near the sub the shp is.

nelsonmandela27
12-02-2009, 02:16 AM
but so do a lot of non mainstream brands. i mean this kid is trying to prove that memphis is good equipment but then he doesnt want to spend a grand to break 150. as far as im concerned hes not going to even come close to 150 with $1000 worth of memphis gear. but if he gave up on the whole brand ***** thing he could be a lot louder with a lot less money

dappa5
12-02-2009, 02:22 AM
aggreed but you can get loud w his gear with some tweeking
electrical/enclosure/overall install etc...
and the new c3" and cm3 are nasty
p.s. deff not 150+ but mid to high 40's np

nelsonmandela27
12-02-2009, 02:30 AM
this may be true but either way the op seems to have lost interest so im going to have to continue this thread with you another day

SicAudio
12-02-2009, 02:44 AM
he would be lucky to hit 135 with what he has he hgas enough amp power but a 1000 watt sub like a T3 re ect would be alot better choice to do it. those pr subs are not gonna get anywhere near a 140 even without doing a trick install in something like a 6th order.

dappa5
12-02-2009, 08:24 AM
proper feed and properly built they will do well over 140
hell i got a pr 10 doing 137 on 100 or so watts

spltuscon
12-02-2009, 09:00 AM
aggreed but you can get loud w his gear with some tweeking
electrical/enclosure/overall install etc...
and the new c3" and cm3 are nasty
p.s. deff not 150+ but mid to high 40's np

I've done a 150.6 legal on the TL with a pair of Memphis CM12 D2's in an SUV so they can do it....that was a drop in test too, not optimized for them.
O.P. you can get louder with what you've got for equipment. A cheap pair of 12's can break a 145 legal on the TL... IF your box is right for the car. A larger box will give you higher efficiency and usually higher output for a given amount of power, but WinISD cannot accurately predict SPL levels inside a vehicle, trust me, I've tested it. I personally like using cheap subs to compete because it shows that the box is more important (to a point) than the subs, and its fun to crush people that spent 3 times what you did :laugh:
There is some good advice offered among the flaming here...you should upgrade your wiring to 1/0 and do the big 3. It will help somewhat, in a similar way to how a box helps your subs: it allows your equipment to work to full potential.
You'll get better advice if you can describe in detail or show us you current box.
If 150 is actually your goal then you'll need to upgrade your amp, subs and optimize your box.

k_schutte
12-02-2009, 03:58 PM
Offered him my Juggernaut 15" or my Mach5/PSI 15" as well as box help and he replied with:


I aint got that kinda money right now dude. sorry. If i did change subs, id go with prolly FI or a sundown nightshade. It's just the fact that ppl talk **** bout the pr's n for $77 a piece i wanna prove they arent that bad.

PV Audio
12-02-2009, 05:08 PM
The OP clearly doesn't understand that 77 dollars isn't a lot of money in car audio. Hell, the four woofers that I use in my home audio towers cost 70 dollars a piece.

nelsonmandela27
12-03-2009, 01:57 AM
so it turns out ive seen and heard in person the op's system and with his current setup he is around 140db. the mic he metered on is within about 1-2db of a termlab. so to gain 10 he is going to need a one-note-wonder box or spend more money.

PV Audio
12-03-2009, 10:27 AM
so it turns out ive seen and heard in person the op's system and with his current setup he is around 140db. the mic he metered on is within about 1-2db of a termlab. so to gain 10 he is going to need a one-note-wonder box or spend more money.I can't tell you how much I doubt both of these for a few reasons:

1. If you're truly over 140, then either you know a thing or two about system selection and enclosure design, OR, you've just spent ungodly amounts of money. He has neither.

2. If you want to get to 150, then you have to get to 140 first, and if you're near 150, you wouldn't be making this thread.

3. Two very cheap 12" speakers in a cheap enclosure will not get you to 140dB on 500W each. It just won't. Even then, I highly doubt they're getting 500W a piece anyway. You cannot get a true 1000W @ 1ohm for under 170 dollars, and especially not when it's a Crunch amplifier. Plus, any amplifier that lists its max power rating is clearly electrically overrated since max power ratings are only for people who don't know anything about amplifiers and just want to sound cool.

k_schutte
12-03-2009, 12:08 PM
You cannot get a true 1000W @ 1ohm for under 170 dollars.

I got my Fusion 2500 for $125 :D
I got a stupid crazy deal obviously!


this guy is probably the OP just using a different name to get people off his *** LOL... OP has abandoned this thread, I think we should do the same. He obvisouly isn't serious about car audio, his system pretty much told me that from the start and then his non willingness to listen and ardueing with people who know what they are talkin about etc... dhouche nozzle for sure and probably some 16 year old kid...

FurbiesAndBeans
12-03-2009, 12:16 PM
ip check OP and nelsonmandela27?

nelsonmandela27
12-03-2009, 01:41 PM
I can't tell you how much I doubt both of these for a few reasons:

1. If you're truly over 140, then either you know a thing or two about system selection and enclosure design, OR, you've just spent ungodly amounts of money. He has neither.

2. If you want to get to 150, then you have to get to 140 first, and if you're near 150, you wouldn't be making this thread.

3. Two very cheap 12" speakers in a cheap enclosure will not get you to 140dB on 500W each. It just won't. Even then, I highly doubt they're getting 500W a piece anyway. You cannot get a true 1000W @ 1ohm for under 170 dollars, and especially not when it's a Crunch amplifier. Plus, any amplifier that lists its max power rating is clearly electrically overrated since max power ratings are only for people who don't know anything about amplifiers and just want to sound cool.
wen i saw him get metered he did like 138-9ish(correct me if im wrong here jake) and as far the the meter is concerned i watched another guy i know put up a 144 flat with 2 btl 18s in a wall then post a 146.X on a termlab an hour later. so im assuming the meter isnt more than 2-3 dbs off at most. however wen i saw jake(op) get metered he had 4 of those 12's in his trunk and that was a few months ago so i couldnt tell you wat hes got going on now
(edit) please do an ip check so im not confused with anybody who likes mobile wiring

mendon mafia
12-03-2009, 02:59 PM
fyi at 141 the roof of my car flexes about a half inch each way depending on frequency and my doors move in and out of the frame when closed.

Watch my vids on youtube my system will probably only pull a 141 on a tl, on music.

scored a 144.9 on an audiocontrol spl190 which is about 3-4 db from a tl iirc.

mazdakid
12-03-2009, 03:51 PM
fyi at 141 the roof of my car flexes about a half inch each way depending on frequency and my doors move in and out of the frame when closed.

Watch my vids on youtube my system will probably only pull a 141 on a tl, on music.

scored a 144.9 on an audiocontrol spl190 which is about 3-4 db from a tl iirc.

flex wont tell you anything

k_schutte
12-03-2009, 04:02 PM
fyi at 141 the roof of my car flexes about a half inch each way depending on frequency and my doors move in and out of the frame when closed.

Watch my vids on youtube my system will probably only pull a 141 on a tl, on music.

scored a 144.9 on an audiocontrol spl190 which is about 3-4 db from a tl iirc.


flex wont tell you anything


TRUE! My cadillac doesn't flex a bit!! I did a 143.8 in this video on music. However before I did all of my sound deadening I was only doing a 140.X and had some CRAZY flexing!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnBoc2yUqw0

PV Audio
12-03-2009, 04:45 PM
wen i saw him get metered he did like 138-9ish(correct me if im wrong here jake) and as far the the meter is concerned i watched another guy i know put up a 144 flat with 2 btl 18s in a wall then post a 146.X on a termlab an hour later. so im assuming the meter isnt more than 2-3 dbs off at most. however wen i saw jake(op) get metered he had 4 of those 12's in his trunk and that was a few months ago so i couldnt tell you wat hes got going on now
(edit) please do an ip check so im not confused with anybody who likes mobile wiringThis is without a doubt the most pathetic score I have ever seen in my life. 2 18" BTLs walled off should be over 150. There is no reason for them not to be.

k_schutte
12-03-2009, 04:51 PM
This is without a doubt the most pathetic score I have ever seen in my life. 2 18" BTLs walled off should be over 150. There is no reason for them not to be.

dude at my last comp did a 148.6 with a SINGLE 18" BTL in a sealed (or REALLY small ported) box on like 4kw or so in an empty Astro...

BeAlLsTaR13
12-03-2009, 05:00 PM
This thread made me lol..no way op is hitting 141.1.. Not close to 140 even.. My guess is 130-133 at MOST.. There's no way with those subs at that power with that little wire tuned THAT high.. If he's hitting a 140 legal then my farts must be 300+.. there's no way.. And he has no idea what he's Talking about

op needs to invest in better gear.. And not talk ever again till he can get term lab results cuz that meter is way off.. Less they put it in the port or someshit

PV Audio
12-03-2009, 05:05 PM
This thread made me lol..no way op is hitting 141.1.. Not close to 140 even.. My guess is 130-133 at MOST.. There's no way with those subs at that power with that little wire tuned THAT high.. If he's hitting a 140 legal then my farts must be 300+.. there's no way.. And he has no idea what he's Talking about

op needs to invest in better gear.. And not talk ever again till he can get term lab results cuz that meter is way off.. Less they put it in the port or someshitIf 2 12" Prs on 500W is only 3-4 dB different than 2 18" BTLs in a wall, then the meter is just straight up useless.

PV Audio
12-03-2009, 05:05 PM
dude at my last comp did a 148.6 with a SINGLE 18" BTL in a sealed (or REALLY small ported) box on like 4kw or so in an empty Astro...Exactly. 144 is a ****ing pathetic score.

BeAlLsTaR13
12-03-2009, 05:06 PM
If 2 12" Prs on 500W is only 3-4 dB different than 2 18" BTLs in a wall, then the meter is just straight up useless.

Or that his subs are omgwtfgod-like

mendon mafia
12-03-2009, 05:16 PM
TRUE! My cadillac doesn't flex a bit!! I did a 143.8 in this video on music. However before I did all of my sound deadening I was only doing a 140.X and had some CRAZY flexing!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnBoc2yUqw0

not saying that flex means it does well on the meter but my roof is about 3 feet longer than your 2dr caddy its gonna flex even with mat.

and btw that song isint the best flex song in the world, u need a lower note.

Flex dosnt prove numbers but it proves air movement and air movement (Vd) makes for a more impressive system imo.

k_schutte
12-03-2009, 05:41 PM
not saying that flex means it does well on the meter but my roof is about 3 feet longer than your 2dr caddy its gonna flex even with mat.

and btw that song isint the best flex song in the world, u need a lower note.

Flex dosnt prove numbers but it proves air movement and air movement (Vd) makes for a more impressive system imo.

your roof isn't much longer than mine... my car is like 10" or so longer than your 300 (assuming it is the newer version and not the glorified sebring version) ... you roof MIGHT be a little longer but IF it is probably only by inches. As for the song, I was at a competition and that song plays my cars peak frequency so of course I would play that one while being metered. While flexing is neat to watch it is a loss on the meter, the cadillac has 3 layers of deadening throughout and that alone gained me like 3dB~.

plugitin
12-03-2009, 05:45 PM
not saying that flex means it does well on the meter but my roof is about 3 feet longer than your 2dr caddy its gonna flex even with mat.

and btw that song isint the best flex song in the world, u need a lower note.

Flex dosnt prove numbers but it proves air movement and air movement (Vd) makes for a more impressive system imo.

Really? There are WAY to many variables to say something like that.

k_schutte
12-03-2009, 05:46 PM
Really? There are WAY to many variables to say something like that.

yeah, doesn't really sound like he has a clue what he is talking about but...

PV Audio
12-03-2009, 06:05 PM
not saying that flex means it does well on the meter but my roof is about 3 feet longer than your 2dr caddy its gonna flex even with mat.

and btw that song isint the best flex song in the world, u need a lower note.

Flex dosnt prove numbers but it proves air movement and air movement (Vd) makes for a more impressive system imo.What exactly do you think SPL is? :)

tinmanchris217
12-03-2009, 06:23 PM
I personally like using cheap subs to compete because it shows that the box is more important (to a point) than the subs, and its fun to crush people that spent 3 times what you did :laugh:

There is some good advice offered among the flaming here...you should upgrade your wiring to 1/0 and do the big 3.

If 150 is actually your goal then you'll need to upgrade your amp, subs and optimize your box.

Similarly, I run cheap subs ($100 each) and a cheap amp ($150). It's all about doing your research, planning ahead, and buying smartly.

Hitting 150 isn't possible, accept that...but 145 should be a goal to shoot for. Honestly, I would be happy in the 140-143 dB, TL legal, range.


Bear with me, and I'll do what I can to help a learning SPL nut.


In a Grand Prix (with all trunk cars), you have a few options, and I'd bet you can get up near 143-145, with that equipment and spending some time tuning. Here are some box choices:

- Standard trunk will lose a couple dB's instantly. If you're trying to squeeze every bit out of your setup, don't use this.

- Rear-deck/middle-seat blow-through is good for staying in stock classes for competition. It also keeps things secure from thieves. This would be my choice. Either cut a hole, or use the existing speaker holes.

- Sealed trunk is as loud as you'll get, since you're basically walling the trunk off. It takes some time, but allows you to keep your back seats and compete in either stock or unlimited classes.

- Wall is impractical for most people, but it does get crazy loud and takes alot of time.

1) Choose your style, and setup the basic structure.

2) Build a test box, with ~3 cf sealed box.

3) Using a meter, run 2 tests. One using a sine sweep with the car sealed up, and one with the windows, trunk, and doors open.

4) Find your cabin gain peak. This is the where the biggest difference between the 2 tests happens.

5) Build a ported box, with 4 cf IV, and a large port (200 sq in) tuned to ~3 Hz less than this frequency. Try to keep port and speaker facing forward. Double-baffle the front, and use lots of wood glue and screws. Apply a layer of duct tape or fiberglass to the inside seams.

6) Ensure your wiring is proper and gains are set properly (to a light clip). 1/0 wire is needed for your amp, along with a clean ground, and a quality battery.

This should be enough to get your setup to 138+, TL legal. Everything from there on is small tricks and tuning that comes from lots of testing.

mendon mafia
12-03-2009, 08:00 PM
your roof isn't much longer than mine... my car is like 10" or so longer than your 300 (assuming it is the newer version and not the glorified sebring version) ... you roof MIGHT be a little longer but IF it is probably only by inches. As for the song, I was at a competition and that song plays my cars peak frequency so of course I would play that one while being metered. While flexing is neat to watch it is a loss on the meter, the cadillac has 3 layers of deadening throughout and that alone gained me like 3dB~.

i guess its the glorified seabring version cuz its a 2000 even tho my car is huge compared to a seabring of the same year. roof its about 5ft long from glass to glass its like a dodge intrepid if i had to call it glorified anything.

and its just ive never seen a loud system not flex the car on low notes, so its a safe assumption that if your car isint flexing at all on 30hz then ur system probably isint loud. obviously if ur car has 30 layers of mat and is reinforced this is a different story and you know your system is loud hence why you need all the damping to keep your car form destroying itself.

Are you claiming that your car has zero flex at 30hz or less cuz i seriously doubt it even with 3 layers of mat. I would love to see any system that is capable of 140's @ 30ish hz to play that loud with no flex at all. that will impress me more than scoring a 140 @ 30 hz with a 8.

if you throw an 18 properly powered into a car its gonna flex the car at least a little bit if not break **** unless its armored or a tank.

k_schutte
12-03-2009, 08:09 PM
i guess its the glorified seabring version cuz its a 2000 even tho my car is huge compared to a seabring of the same year. roof its about 5ft long from glass to glass its like a dodge intrepid if i had to call it glorified anything.

and its just ive never seen a loud system not flex the car on low notes, so its a safe assumption that if your car isint flexing at all on 30hz then ur system probably isint loud. obviously if ur car has 30 layers of mat and is reinforced this is a different story and you know your system is loud hence why you need all the damping to keep your car form destroying itself.

Are you claiming that your car has zero flex at 30hz or less cuz i seriously doubt it even with 3 layers of mat. I would love to see any system that is capable of 140's @ 30ish hz to play that loud with no flex at all. that will impress me more than scoring a 140 @ 30 hz with a 8.

if you throw an 18 properly powered into a car its gonna flex the car at least a little bit if not break **** unless its armored or a tank.

my car don't flex AT ALL on a 30hz tone... because that box is tuned to 40hz so it can't hit those lows for ****... :D

It flexed like hell with the RE XXX 15" in there with a box tuned to 33hz playing anything in the low-mid 30hz range. However I have yet to run a lower tuned system since I did my sound deadening. Basicaly I was just going for numbers on the TL so I was running a tuning of about 40hz.

PV Audio
12-03-2009, 08:15 PM
i guess its the glorified seabring version cuz its a 2000 even tho my car is huge compared to a seabring of the same year. roof its about 5ft long from glass to glass its like a dodge intrepid if i had to call it glorified anything.

and its just ive never seen a loud system not flex the car on low notes, so its a safe assumption that if your car isint flexing at all on 30hz then ur system probably isint loud. obviously if ur car has 30 layers of mat and is reinforced this is a different story and you know your system is loud hence why you need all the damping to keep your car form destroying itself.

Are you claiming that your car has zero flex at 30hz or less cuz i seriously doubt it even with 3 layers of mat. I would love to see any system that is capable of 140's @ 30ish hz to play that loud with no flex at all. that will impress me more than scoring a 140 @ 30 hz with a 8.

if you throw an 18 properly powered into a car its gonna flex the car at least a little bit if not break **** unless its armored or a tank.
Without sounding harsh, excess flexing really only impresses people who don't actually care about the audio quality. All that flexing is doing is the car absorbing the sound energy. The more flexing that's happening, the more output you're losing. At least in home audio, it is one of the least desired things for a room to have, since if the room's walls are vibrating significantly, they will be out of phase with the speaker and will cause terrible coloration of the sound. You've heard the term standing waves? Well, the standing wave is a wave that just sits in place and oscillates. That causes any note at that frequency to continue to resonate within the enclosure, which causes peaks and valleys in your output response. In an undamped enclosure, that causes the walls to vibrate significantly at that frequency which also colors the sound significantly. That's why you use damping materials on the inside whether it's physical wood bracing, fiberglass, Dacron, wool, whatever. They turn the sound energy of the standing waves into heat which causes them to dissipate quickly. The physical bracing just prevents the walls from flexing altogether from the energy produced by the driver. All of these things whether it's sheer panel vibration due to excess energy, standing waves or poor room construction are completely undesirable. Take a look at this:

http://members.ii.net/~reality/lsk/floating-spikes.jpg

I trust you've seen those spikes on speakers and subwoofers before. What are they for? They're for exactly what I'm talking about. They isolate the speaker cabinet from the floor so that any vibrations caused by the cabinet are not transferred to the floor which would also vibrate and cause interference. Using spikes can clean up your bass response because you don't have 10 dozen vibrating surfaces instead of just the 6 on the enclosure and the speaker. More vibration adds coloration, and you don't want that. When it's actually flexing, the issue is compounded significantly. People add deadening to doors for this reason: by adding mass to the door, you're lowering the resonant frequency of the door panel, thus making it less susceptible to vibration from audio frequencies.

k_schutte
12-03-2009, 08:22 PM
Without sounding harsh, excess flexing really only impresses people who don't actually care about the audio quality. All that flexing is doing is the car absorbing the sound energy. The more flexing that's happening, the more output you're losing. At least in home audio, it is one of the least desired things for a room to have, since if the room's walls are vibrating significantly, they will be out of phase with the speaker and will cause terrible coloration of the sound. You've heard the term standing waves? Well, the standing wave is a wave that just sits in place and oscillates. That causes any note at that frequency to continue to resonate within the enclosure, which causes peaks and valleys in your output response. In an undamped enclosure, that causes the walls to vibrate significantly at that frequency which also colors the sound significantly. That's why you use damping materials on the inside whether it's physical wood bracing, fiberglass, Dacron, wool, whatever. They turn the sound energy of the standing waves into heat which causes them to dissipate quickly. The physical bracing just prevents the walls from flexing altogether from the energy produced by the driver. All of these things whether it's sheer panel vibration due to excess energy, standing waves or poor room construction are completely undesirable. Take a look at this:

http://members.ii.net/~reality/lsk/floating-spikes.jpg

I trust you've seen those spikes on speakers and subwoofers before. What are they for? They're for exactly what I'm talking about. They isolate the speaker cabinet from the floor so that any vibrations caused by the cabinet are not transferred to the floor which would also vibrate and cause interference. Using spikes can clean up your bass response because you don't have 10 dozen vibrating surfaces instead of just the 6 on the enclosure and the speaker. More vibration adds coloration, and you don't want that. When it's actually flexing, the issue is compounded significantly. People add deadening to doors for this reason: by adding mass to the door, you're lowering the resonant frequency of the door panel, thus making it less susceptible to vibration from audio frequencies.

:wow: That's what I was gonna say :cool:

mendon mafia
12-03-2009, 09:26 PM
i never said flex sounds good. it actually can completely wash out a 150+ db system for example my buddys Subaru with 2 shocker sig 15's. the roof flexes so much and loudly, its terrible to listen to music. all you hear is the roof waving and bending and smacking support beams and what have you.

Lakota
12-03-2009, 09:37 PM
This thread is full of FAIL.

tinmanchris217
12-05-2009, 02:25 PM
OP gave up on this setup... in return, I give up on helping noobs (on this site).

I'm starting to realize why most of the gurus don't waste their time, until a thread proves its worth posting in.

@ the peeing contest, start a flex thread, rather than dumping here. Flex is bad, but inevitable in underdamped normal cars.

Face of Fear
07-18-2010, 02:37 AM
wen i saw him get metered he did like 138-9ish(correct me if im wrong here jake) and as far the the meter is concerned i watched another guy i know put up a 144 flat with 2 btl 18s in a wall then post a 146.X on a termlab an hour later. so im assuming the meter isnt more than 2-3 dbs off at most. however wen i saw jake(op) get metered he had 4 of those 12's in his trunk and that was a few months ago so i couldnt tell you wat hes got going on now
(edit) please do an ip check so im not confused with anybody who likes mobile wiring


It was a 139.8 and then again with different wire and a jbl 1201.1 at 141.1.

nissanrider06
07-18-2010, 04:13 AM
Its funny how everyone hates on best buy subs, Not everyone cares about killing there ear drums in a week and spending a grand... or spending hours a day on the internet learning how to have a professional system some people just want a little bump and rather focus on other thinfs