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dvldogyut
11-30-2009, 09:21 PM
1.9@28hz should give u a ubber flat responce and sound fantastic

I was told this, I have a 187 series 12" at 600 watts. How true is this? And why? This should give me a good sounding sub at a wide range of freqs if this is true, right?

deathpenalty18
11-30-2009, 09:27 PM
ya it should be fine tuned to 28 hz it would give u more lows than highs but if thats what ya want go for it!! who told u this anyway the flatt ubber ****??

basscort2009
11-30-2009, 09:28 PM
is this for HT? 28 is kinda low. i say 32 is lowest without going into the "chopped and screwed only" boxs

MTXman
11-30-2009, 09:29 PM
Yeah 28hz is kinda low if you're trying to cover the whole spectrum.. id say 34-36 is better at doing that. But 28hz would get nastyyyy on the lows.

statonburrell
11-30-2009, 09:33 PM
if you were going with a small sub like an 8" or something 28 would probably be fine but since you are going with a 12 i'd stay around 34-36

dvldogyut
11-30-2009, 09:36 PM
ya it should be fine tuned to 28 hz it would give u more lows than highs but if thats what ya want go for it!! who told u this anyway the flatt ubber ****??

Mobeious? I am looking for a mix of high and low bass I listen to alot of metal and rap, I love lows but want my metal to sound good too. Looking for good sound quality for all music and not looking to put up any numbers!

deathpenalty18
11-30-2009, 09:39 PM
Mobeious? I am looking for a mix of high and low bass I listen to alot of metal and rap, I love lows but want my metal to sound good too. Looking for good sound quality for all music and not looking to put up any numbers!

alright u want lows highs and all that metal **** . this is what i would do tune it to 35hz that would be dead perfect for ya!!

gtbike900
11-30-2009, 09:40 PM
im tuned to 26.5 htz

basscort2009
11-30-2009, 09:41 PM
ok

dvldogyut
11-30-2009, 09:41 PM
is this for HT? 28 is kinda low. i say 32 is lowest without going into the "chopped and screwed only" boxs

What about as far as a flat resopnce? That would be like a sealed box if this is true. And sound good on higher bass too, right?

basscort2009
11-30-2009, 09:43 PM
What about as far as a flat resopnce? That would be like a sealed box if this is true. And sound good on higher bass too, right?

28 would be flat til a certain point. after that it will fall off the charts. im gonna say X2 on the 35 htz tuning

dvldogyut
11-30-2009, 09:44 PM
alright u want lows highs and all that metal **** . this is what i would do tune it to 35hz that would be dead perfect for ya!!

That's what I thought! I got a box designed for that, and he said that wouldn't give me the sound I wanted.

basscort2009
11-30-2009, 09:45 PM
well i had a 30 htz tuned box and metal sounded pretty bad. all in all sealed is better for metal but if you want ported tune little higher

deathpenalty18
11-30-2009, 09:46 PM
That's what I thought! I got a box designed for that, and he said that wouldn't give me the sound I wanted.

who is this guy?? and dude trust me 35hz will be all the sounds u want just go with the box u already got made up to 35hz and that thing should sound amazing brotha!!

dvldogyut
11-30-2009, 09:46 PM
28 would be flat til a certain point. after that it will fall off the charts. im gonna say X2 on the 35 htz tuning

Ok thanks.

gtbike900
11-30-2009, 09:46 PM
i have 4 axis 15s so tuned low for scary low bass it play 30 htz and it sounds just as loud at 37 witch is my burp freq

gtbike900
11-30-2009, 09:48 PM
it does a 151 and change at 30

dvldogyut
11-30-2009, 09:49 PM
who is this guy?? and dude trust me 35hz will be all the sounds u want just go with the box u already got made up to 35hz and that thing should sound amazing brotha!!

Thanks Alot man!!!!

Ray21
11-30-2009, 09:49 PM
1.9@28hz should give u a ubber flat responce and sound fantastic


Not Uber flat but will give good SQ at the expense of some output.

I know its against the grain around here, but I like to tune anywhere from 28-32 and sometimes 35hz. Any higher and you get pretty huge peaks in freq. response... good for SPL, not so much for SQ.

gtbike900
11-30-2009, 09:51 PM
hey some one who also likes low tuning

soundstreamer
11-30-2009, 09:53 PM
it does a 151 and change at 30

Not a bad score for a newb... I do 151 and change at 50 hz lol. What you running?

You should post a line-up of your stereo system in your sig so people don't have to ask what equipment you're running...

dvldogyut
11-30-2009, 09:56 PM
Not Uber flat but will give good SQ at the expense of some output.

I know its against the grain around here, but I like to tune anywhere from 28-32 and sometimes 35hz. Any higher and you get pretty huge peaks in freq. response... good for SPL, not so much for SQ.

Do you listen to metal? With some good drum kicks?

dvldogyut
11-30-2009, 09:59 PM
hey some one who also likes low tuning

Also do you listen to metal?

gtbike900
11-30-2009, 10:03 PM
4 15 inch audiopulse axis 15s in yukon xl on one sundown 3500d at .3 subs in 9.5 cubes after dis with 2 6 inch aeros tuned to 26.5 7 batterys and 2 200 amp alts and fully deaden used to burp 39 now 37 since deadning and not a newb worked at 4 shops im waiting on my 2 sundown saz4500s and 4 18 inch nightshades and quad alt bracket and im going with 4 270 amp alts 16 v with 8 batterys to start

soundstreamer
11-30-2009, 10:05 PM
I was just kidding with the 'newb' thing... That score doesn't represent any newb I've ever met.

gtbike900
11-30-2009, 10:06 PM
ya a little it sound good on everything the 50 htz stuff has a little lower output than the lows but all sounds good i lisin to alot of rap

gtbike900
11-30-2009, 10:08 PM
im looking to get 155s plus at 37

azimuth
11-30-2009, 10:08 PM
i won't tune very far below the FS of the sub, but anything above is doable. a JL W6 would sound great at 28hz, but a kicker cvr 10 probably wouldn't. it's sub dependant, to a point.

azimuth
11-30-2009, 10:09 PM
ya a little it sound good on everything the 50 htz stuff has a little lower output than the lows but all sounds good i lisin to alot of rap

get better door speakers, and change the crossover points.

gtbike900
11-30-2009, 10:11 PM
my subs fs is 22 lol

gtbike900
11-30-2009, 10:14 PM
and im tuned to 26.5 why should i change my crossover freq i have tens for midbass ran full i have stupid midbass subs off mids viberate all 3 mirrors

azimuth
11-30-2009, 10:14 PM
my subs fs is 22 lol

you could tune at 20 if you wanted.

Ray21
11-30-2009, 10:15 PM
Do you listen to metal? With some good drum kicks?

Not really. Some Stone Sour...

gtbike900
11-30-2009, 10:16 PM
and even at 50 hrts it punchy enof to make you cringe i just set it up for lows that hurt your ears

azimuth
11-30-2009, 10:17 PM
and im tuned to 26.5 why should i change my crossover freq i have tens for midbass ran full i have stupid midbass subs off mids viberate all 3 mirrors

you said that your lows hit louder than your higher bass, leading me to believe that there is a gap between subs and midbass somewhere. your door speakers might be able to cover that some.

azimuth
11-30-2009, 10:19 PM
and even at 50 hrts it punchy enof to make you cringe i just set it up for lows that hurt your ears

ahh. i enjoy the lows that can't be heard also.:p:

gtbike900
11-30-2009, 10:20 PM
i could tune to 20 htz but my 6 inch aeros would be 35.7 inches long

Upgrayedd
11-30-2009, 10:21 PM
In my limited experience higher tuning kicks *** on metal. I had a ported 8 tuned ~35-37hz. It was awesome on all but the lowest of rap. I had a single 12 tuned to 28hz, I didn't have the midbass to back it up. The setup was lacking from approx 50-80hz. Im concerned about the same issue with my IB but this time I will have eq ad better midbass drivers.

gtbike900
11-30-2009, 10:22 PM
i like feeling my bass and watching my dash do the wave and seeing my sunroof flex about and inch or so peek to peek

azimuth
11-30-2009, 10:24 PM
i could tune to 20 htz but my 6 inch aeros would be 35.7 inches long

tuning that low in a car is pointless anyway. i stay 28 and above.

gtbike900
11-30-2009, 10:27 PM
tuning that low in a car is pointless anyway. i stay 28 and above.

it was a joke it tuned to low now but i like how it sounds and dont care it does a 152.8 at 37 hrz and can do that for hours on one saz 3500

hornedfrog1985
11-30-2009, 10:32 PM
30hz

ciaonzo
11-30-2009, 10:38 PM
It's pretty obvious from the responses who listens for the musical aspects and who listens for output. It's also obvious who knows how to tune an enclosure based upon more than just regurgitated info. :)

Specs of the driver must be known, the transfer function of the vehicle must be known, and your musical tastes must be known. You can't just say to someone that 28Hz is too low and that it will result in a lack of midbass or otherwise unacceptable levels of performance. Far too many variables.

OP, if you like metal and hip hop, there's a pretty good chance you would enjoy a sealed setup. It would probably offer the balance of performance that you're looking for. If that sounds like something that would work for you, try to find a relatively efficient driver with low moving mass and low inductance with a Qts that would be suitable for sealed enclosures, about .5 and higher. The low mass and low inductance will lend itself to those fast, tight drum sounds and will reveal rich harmonic structures in the bass lines. If one driver sealed isn't enough output, maybe go with a pair.

Vented enclosures are resonant by nature and resonance stores energy, which corresponds with a high group delay. Group delay is responsible for robbing you of fast transients. Tuning low does help quite a bit to improve overall transient performance and there are many vented alignments with outstanding group delay and excellent transient response but none come close the transient response offered by a sealed enclosure.

gtbike900
11-30-2009, 10:41 PM
what he said

dvldogyut
11-30-2009, 10:56 PM
It's pretty obvious from the responses who listens for the musical aspects and who listens for output. It's also obvious who knows how to tune an enclosure based upon more than just regurgitated info. :)

Specs of the driver must be known, the transfer function of the vehicle must be known, and your musical tastes must be known. You can't just say to someone that 28Hz is too low and that it will result in a lack of midbass or otherwise unacceptable levels of performance. Far too many variables.

OP, if you like metal and hip hop, there's a pretty good chance you would enjoy a sealed setup. It would probably offer the balance of performance that you're looking for. If that sounds like something that would work for you, try to find a relatively efficient driver with low moving mass and low inductance with a Qts that would be suitable for sealed enclosures, about .5 and higher. The low mass and low inductance will lend itself to those fast, tight drum sounds and will reveal rich harmonic structures in the bass lines. If one driver sealed isn't enough output, maybe go with a pair.

Vented enclosures are resonant by nature and resonance stores energy, which corresponds with a high group delay. Group delay is responsible for robbing you of fast transients. Tuning low does help quite a bit to improve overall transient performance and there are many vented alignments with outstanding group delay and excellent transient response but none come close the transient response offered by a sealed enclosure.

This is by far the best answer I have heard, but my big worry is that sealed won't get as low as I like, or am I wrong? And I have 4 of these incriminator audio 187 series 12's by the way.

dvldogyut
11-30-2009, 11:01 PM
It's pretty obvious from the responses who listens for the musical aspects and who listens for output. It's also obvious who knows how to tune an enclosure based upon more than just regurgitated info. :)

Specs of the driver must be known, the transfer function of the vehicle must be known, and your musical tastes must be known. You can't just say to someone that 28Hz is too low and that it will result in a lack of midbass or otherwise unacceptable levels of performance. Far too many variables.

OP, if you like metal and hip hop, there's a pretty good chance you would enjoy a sealed setup. It would probably offer the balance of performance that you're looking for. If that sounds like something that would work for you, try to find a relatively efficient driver with low moving mass and low inductance with a Qts that would be suitable for sealed enclosures, about .5 and higher. The low mass and low inductance will lend itself to those fast, tight drum sounds and will reveal rich harmonic structures in the bass lines. If one driver sealed isn't enough output, maybe go with a pair.

Vented enclosures are resonant by nature and resonance stores energy, which corresponds with a high group delay. Group delay is responsible for robbing you of fast transients. Tuning low does help quite a bit to improve overall transient performance and there are many vented alignments with outstanding group delay and excellent transient response but none come close the transient response offered by a sealed enclosure.

Or could I do something like some good midbass drivers? Or componets? Would they help much with the higher bass?

gtbike900
11-30-2009, 11:07 PM
yes they can my midbass mid high highs setup sounds great with no subs and has great punch to it

hornedfrog1985
11-30-2009, 11:12 PM
Sealed can get just as low, and probably lower than ported enclosures. The thing is you won't have that peak in DB at the tuning area (because there is none), and it will have less output. Maybe look into 4th order bandpass. Me personally, I would never tune higher than like 33 hz, but I listen to a wide variety of music.

dvldogyut
11-30-2009, 11:19 PM
Sealed can get just as low, and probably lower than ported enclosures. The thing is you won't have that peak in DB at the tuning area (because there is none), and it will have less output. Maybe look into 4th order bandpass. Me personally, I would never tune higher than like 33 hz, but I listen to a wide variety of music.

Really? Lower? And what would a 4th order do for me? Will it give me lows and highs?

ciaonzo
11-30-2009, 11:24 PM
This is by far the best answer I have heard, but my big worry is that sealed won't get as low as I like, or am I wrong? And I have 4 of these incriminator audio 187 series 12's by the way.

Yeah, if you take a driver and put it in a sealed and vented enclosure of the same volume (just for simplicity's sake), the sealed will reach much lower in frequency but the vented will have much more output down to the tuning frequency. So while the sealed is much less efficient, it will keep playing to a lower frequency as long as the driver has the excursion and power handling to back it up. The vented is much more efficient because you're using the main resonance in the pass band but once you play a frequency below tuning you get a direct cancellation between the energy coming off the front and rear of the cone. This is the reason for the steep roll-off.

It's not a hard and fast rule but sealed will almost always go lower than vented in most practical applications. There are exceptions, like everything else.

dvldogyut
11-30-2009, 11:36 PM
Yeah, if you take a driver and put it in a sealed and vented enclosure of the same volume (just for simplicity's sake), the sealed will reach much lower in frequency but the vented will have much more output down to the tuning frequency. So while the sealed is much less efficient, it will keep playing to a lower frequency as long as the driver has the excursion and power handling to back it up. The vented is much more efficient because you're using the main resonance in the pass band but once you play a frequency below tuning you get a direct cancellation between the energy coming off the front and rear of the cone. This is the reason for the steep roll-off.

It's not a hard and fast rule but sealed will almost always go lower than vented in most practical applications. There are exceptions, like everything else.

Cool, I may just go sealed then!

dman4486
11-30-2009, 11:50 PM
Cool, I may just go sealed then!

I tried sealed and then changed to ported. My enclosure is oversized and tuned to 24hz. and my lows are much better in the ported enclosure.

I think it all just depends on the driver you choose and what sound you like. I have flat response (not taking into account vehicle gains) and love it. People that ***** about low tuning not being able to pick up the mids are nuts and don't know what mid-range speakers are for...

ciaonzo
11-30-2009, 11:57 PM
I tried sealed and then changed to ported. My enclosure is oversized and tuned to 24hz. and my lows are much better in the ported enclosure.

I think it all just depends on the driver you choose and what sound you like. I have flat response (not taking into account vehicle gains) and love it. People that ***** about low tuning not being able to pick up the mids are nuts and don't know what mid-range speakers are for...

Lost of truth in this post. :)

This is the type of exception I was alluding to. I also tune that way. Very low, often around 22Hz to 26Hz, depending on the driver and the application.

gtbike900
11-30-2009, 11:59 PM
i thought i was all alone tuning to 26.5

azimuth
12-01-2009, 12:01 AM
i'm tuning 8's at 30.........anticipating mixed results.

ciaonzo
12-01-2009, 12:05 AM
i'm tuning 8's at 30.........anticipating mixed results.

That's right, I'd nearly forgotten. Which ones did you end up with again, the Daytons?

azimuth
12-01-2009, 12:08 AM
That's right, I'd nearly forgotten. Which ones did you end up with again, the Daytons?

the tang band aluminums. they aren't here yet:(

justin smith
12-01-2009, 12:45 AM
i thought i was all alone tuning to 26.5

im tuned right around 26hz also:crazy:

mobeious
12-01-2009, 01:16 AM
i want good sound quality at a large range of freqs, i love slamming lows too, im not looking to put up any numbers.

thats exactly what u put in the PM and exactly what i gave you

PV Audio
12-01-2009, 10:30 AM
It's pretty obvious from the responses who listens for the musical aspects and who listens for output. It's also obvious who knows how to tune an enclosure based upon more than just regurgitated info. :)

Specs of the driver must be known, the transfer function of the vehicle must be known, and your musical tastes must be known. You can't just say to someone that 28Hz is too low and that it will result in a lack of midbass or otherwise unacceptable levels of performance. Far too many variables.

OP, if you like metal and hip hop, there's a pretty good chance you would enjoy a sealed setup. It would probably offer the balance of performance that you're looking for. If that sounds like something that would work for you, try to find a relatively efficient driver with low moving mass and low inductance with a Qts that would be suitable for sealed enclosures, about .5 and higher. The low mass and low inductance will lend itself to those fast, tight drum sounds and will reveal rich harmonic structures in the bass lines. If one driver sealed isn't enough output, maybe go with a pair.

Vented enclosures are resonant by nature and resonance stores energy, which corresponds with a high group delay. Group delay is responsible for robbing you of fast transients. Tuning low does help quite a bit to improve overall transient performance and there are many vented alignments with outstanding group delay and excellent transient response but none come close the transient response offered by a sealed enclosure.
:mad::mad: Response stealer! :)

PV Audio
12-01-2009, 10:33 AM
you could tune at 20 if you wanted.Um...

thehardknoxlife
12-01-2009, 10:42 AM
is this for HT? 28 is kinda low. i say 32 is lowest without going into the "chopped and screwed only" boxs
Yeah because 4hz is going to make a BIG difference.:rolleyes: You guys and your Hertz.

ciaonzo
12-01-2009, 10:45 AM
:mad::mad: Response stealer! :)

Haha, well we can't expect you to do all the work around here. ;)

PV Audio
12-01-2009, 11:09 AM
Yeah because 4hz is going to make a BIG difference.:rolleyes: You guys and your Hertz.Honestly. Take 10 off that 28 and then we start talking about HT tuning. 28hz is still very musical.

mobeious
12-01-2009, 12:12 PM
hmmm my RLP sitting in 10cubes at 14hz

S.B.C.
12-01-2009, 12:15 PM
my wall is tuned to 26hz

still musical

155.5 + outlaw w 6k

PV Audio
12-01-2009, 01:31 PM
my wall is tuned to 26hz

still musical

155.5 + outlaw w 6kAs though you know about being loud :p:

dvldogyut
12-01-2009, 10:33 PM
i want good sound quality at a large range of freqs, i love slamming lows too, im not looking to put up any numbers.

thats exactly what u put in the PM and exactly what i gave you

im not doubting you at all, im going to try it, i just wanted some other opinions

S.B.C.
12-01-2009, 10:35 PM
As though you know about being loud :p:

true- I build for my theories, not read and repeat :p:

PV Audio
12-01-2009, 11:31 PM
true- I build for my theories, not read and repeat :p::laugh: