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View Full Version : 100x2: Whats the loudest CHEAP comps or coaxles I can get?



1ndatrunk
08-11-2009, 07:06 PM
I know loud and cheap usually don't go in the same sentence, but I need some ideas. I have a RF 800a4 amp(100x4 @4ohms), and I need a loud set or two of either some 5.25s or 6.5 comps or coaxles that will take that power daily. Not really the best sounding, just decent and loud.

SSS 18734
08-11-2009, 07:11 PM
If all you want is loud, go with pro audio components ;)

KyleBechtold
08-11-2009, 07:13 PM
LOUD, SOUND GOOD, CHEAP.. you can pick only two..

if you want loud and cheap only then like he said.. some seleniums or eminence would be your solution

1ndatrunk
08-11-2009, 07:29 PM
LOUD, SOUND GOOD, CHEAP.. you can pick only two..

if you want loud and cheap only then like he said.. some seleniums or eminence would be your solution

Will they take the power, and who sells them?

KyleBechtold
08-11-2009, 07:31 PM
Will they take the power, and who sells them?

partsexpress sells em.. there are some 4 and 8 ohm models.. they are rated for 100 i believe.. they get ******* loud!!

1ndatrunk
08-11-2009, 07:38 PM
partsexpress sells em.. there are some 4 and 8 ohm models.. they are rated for 100 i believe.. they get ******* loud!!

What tweets and crossover would you recommend with them?

amartin_72
08-11-2009, 08:52 PM
I Love parts express.

jdmferio13
08-11-2009, 09:15 PM
are these what you are talking about
250 rms :eek:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=292-2584

mvw2
08-11-2009, 11:19 PM
You may want to have some comprehension of what you're buying before you start to randomly look at hardware.

First off, what are the goals of the system? What are the limitations? What type of sound characteristics you do you need and want from the system?

You will need to buy hardware capable of these things or you will be disappointed and fail in your vision of this system.

The downside is that you really have no idea what you're looking for and how to go about doing it. There is specific engineering in sound. There is specific engineering in speaker design and what speakers can do. There is cost in R&D as well as specific technologies of various designs. Piecing together a system is an engineering project in itself as all the pieces have to be carefully chosen and must fit and work together well. Without knowledge and planning it is very easy to fail or at the very least end up way off the mark of your original intentions.

TNTR70
08-11-2009, 11:29 PM
You may want to have some comprehension of what you're buying before you start to randomly look at hardware.

First off, what are the goals of the system? What are the limitations? What type of sound characteristics you do you need and want from the system?

You will need to buy hardware capable of these things or you will be disappointed and fail in your vision of this system.

The downside is that you really have no idea what you're looking for and how to go about doing it. There is specific engineering in sound. There is specific engineering in speaker design and what speakers can do. There is cost in R&D as well as specific technologies of various designs. Piecing together a system is an engineering project in itself as all the pieces have to be carefully chosen and must fit and work together well. Without knowledge and planning it is very easy to fail or at the very least end up way off the mark of your original intentions.


:wow: i want my two minutes of my life back, you said nothing in all that. you got a suggestion of some speakers?

RowJoe
08-12-2009, 12:59 AM
:wow: i want my two minutes of my life back, you said nothing in all that. you got a suggestion of some speakers?

It took you two minutes to read that?

mvw2
08-12-2009, 02:36 AM
I can't suggest hardware if the original poster doesn't really know what he wants.

Loud is generic.

You only have two limits: thermal and mechanical.

Thermal is how good the speaker can be as a heat sink and what it can take before melting.

Mechanical is how much air it can physically move before breaking itself.

Along with thermal comes efficiency. A 90dB efficient speaker off 50w will be the same loud as a 93dB efficient speaker off 25w. Effectively you want a highly efficient speaker and good thermal power handling to boot. However, it's not as simple as that. Efficiency is a byproduct of the mechanical design of the speaker, and there are trade-offs to that design. For example, you could buy a 96dB sensitive 6.5" speaker. However, it could NEVER been a normal midwoofer for car use in any traditional sense. In order to even be 96dB sensitive, it needs to be designed in a specific way, a way that gives up both low frequency sensitivity and output. The 6.5" woofer would be absolutely useless below 150Hz-200Hz. It would lack the frequency response below that and would lack the excursion to even do anything lower even if you forced it (EQing).

If the original poster wants anything traditionally functional for a car setup, he would need to pretty much settle on 90dB sensitivity as the upper limit and in some cases lower. This means all other gains would have to be done via power handling. You then need to make a 6.5" woofer handle 300w rms which isn't easy to do. It's not cheap. Think Morel as an option but you're paying $150 per woofer.

As well, sensitivity and thermal power handling ONLY discusses high frequency use. Any low frequency use is mainly limited by the physical amount of air the speaker can move, i.e. cone area and excursion. To make a 6.5" woofer get loud at 80Hz, you need a LOT of mechanical throw, think subwoofer range here. There are VERY few drivers out there capable of anything more then 5-6mm. A few do offer towards 10mm one way and just a couple up in the 11mm-12mm range. However we are again talking very specific hardware and typically not cheap hardware. Some of these products also are no longer made and many of these products never existed in a premade component or coaxial setup for car use.

Frankly, there really is almost nothing cheap out there that will get loud and sound good. Most everything cheap out there will only sound good at low to medium levels and will begin to distort at higher levels and sound like junk at high levels. I couldn't tell you one budget product that is worth buying for such a design goal. I can suggest expensive options that can do the job, but that's it. To get loud, cleanly (will always be pricey) there will either be specific trade-offs or will need to specifically be design (custom 3-way for example or a 2-way incorporating a large woofer and small widerange) to do the job right.

In the end I suggest nothing because there is nothing to suggest. All I can say is the original poster doesn't yet have the understanding of the subject and most likely doesn't really know what he wants or can even get away with, independent of getting down to specific brands and models of hardware.

There's another 2 minutes of wasted time maybe.

SSS 18734
08-12-2009, 02:45 AM
I can't suggest hardware if the original poster doesn't really know what he wants.

Loud is generic.

You only have two limits: thermal and mechanical.

Thermal is how good the speaker can be as a heat sink and what it can take before melting.

Mechanical is how much air it can physically move before breaking itself.

Along with thermal comes efficiency. A 90dB efficient speaker off 50w will be the same loud as a 93dB efficient speaker off 25w. Effectively you want a highly efficient speaker and good thermal power handling to boot. However, it's not as simple as that. Efficiency is a byproduct of the mechanical design of the speaker, and there are trade-offs to that design. For example, you could buy a 96dB sensitive 6.5" speaker. However, it could NEVER been a normal midwoofer for car use in any traditional sense. In order to even be 96dB sensitive, it needs to be designed in a specific way, a way that gives up both low frequency sensitivity and output. The 6.5" woofer would be absolutely useless below 150Hz-200Hz. It would lack the frequency response below that and would lack the excursion to even do anything lower even if you forced it (EQing).

If the original poster wants anything traditionally functional for a car setup, he would need to pretty much settle on 90dB sensitivity as the upper limit and in some cases lower. This means all other gains would have to be done via power handling. You then need to make a 6.5" woofer handle 300w rms which isn't easy to do. It's not cheap. Think Morel as an option but you're paying $150 per woofer.

As well, sensitivity and thermal power handling ONLY discusses high frequency use. Any low frequency use is mainly limited by the physical amount of air the speaker can move, i.e. cone area and excursion. To make a 6.5" woofer get loud at 80Hz, you need a LOT of mechanical throw, think subwoofer range here. There are VERY few drivers out there capable of anything more then 5-6mm. A few do offer towards 10mm one way and just a couple up in the 11mm-12mm range. However we are again talking very specific hardware and typically not cheap hardware. Some of these products also are no longer made and many of these products never existed in a premade component or coaxial setup for car use.

Frankly, there really is almost nothing cheap out there that will get loud and sound good. Most everything cheap out there will only sound good at low to medium levels and will begin to distort at higher levels and sound like junk at high levels. I couldn't tell you one budget product that is worth buying for such a design goal. I can suggest expensive options that can do the job, but that's it. To get loud, cleanly (will always be pricey) there will either be specific trade-offs or will need to specifically be design (custom 3-way for example or a 2-way incorporating a large woofer and small widerange) to do the job right.

In the end I suggest nothing because there is nothing to suggest. All I can say is the original poster doesn't yet have the understanding of the subject and most likely doesn't really know what he wants or can even get away with, independent of getting down to specific brands and models of hardware.

There's another 2 minutes of wasted time maybe.

It's obvious the OP hasn't really thought about this issue deeply. If he's like most people, he doesn't really have a good ear for sound quality, nor does he really want to get technical. He wants a loud-*** front stage. If all he wants is loud, he's not going to miss the lack of response between 80 and 150hz, nor will he notice the massive peaks and dips throughout the frequency spectrum. That's seems to be the norm in Florida, and those people love their in-car PA systems :)

mvw2
08-12-2009, 02:52 AM
I guess... :rolleyes:

I'm so glad I started out in the hobby with a much more grounded head on my shoulders. I was clueless of course, but I actually understood good sound a bit more then other folks. I didn't start out with piercing highs and BOOM BOOM sub setups. My first focus was midrange and natural vocals as well as broad range performance, kind of an odd place for a young kid just starting out in the hobby who really didn't know anything. At least it kept me out of all the stupid stuff and didn't waste my money.

Oh well, to each their own. I can only hope people eventually begin to learn the hobby more in depth and begin to see the err of their ways. Ignorance may be bliss, but there is a LOT of science in this hobby you really shouldn't be ignoring...unless you just don't care about music...which is a bit of an oxymoron being in this hobby. :p

waccord99
08-12-2009, 02:54 AM
check my threads i have sum 6.5s for u

1ndatrunk
08-12-2009, 12:38 PM
It's obvious the OP hasn't really thought about this issue deeply. If he's like most people, he doesn't really have a good ear for sound quality, nor does he really want to get technical. He wants a loud-*** front stage. If all he wants is loud, he's not going to miss the lack of response between 80 and 150hz, nor will he notice the massive peaks and dips throughout the frequency spectrum. That's seems to be the norm in Florida, and those people love their in-car PA systems :)


I guess... :rolleyes:

I'm so glad I started out in the hobby with a much more grounded head on my shoulders. I was clueless of course, but I actually understood good sound a bit more then other folks. I didn't start out with piercing highs and BOOM BOOM sub setups. My first focus was midrange and natural vocals as well as broad range performance, kind of an odd place for a young kid just starting out in the hobby who really didn't know anything. At least it kept me out of all the stupid stuff and didn't waste my money.

Oh well, to each their own. I can only hope people eventually begin to learn the hobby more in depth and begin to see the err of their ways. Ignorance may be bliss, but there is a LOT of science in this hobby you really shouldn't be ignoring...unless you just don't care about music...which is a bit of an oxymoron being in this hobby. :p

I'm not discrediting anything you guys are saying, I actually appreciate the help and shared knowledge. If this were a SQ situation then I could better understand where you were coming from, but it is not. I'm putting 6K to my substage, and eventually another 1600 to my mids/highs. Once you get so loud, how "natural" can you actually sound?

Granted I don't want it to sound like a "Florida-East coast ryders" type of system, but I do want decent vocals and midbass as loud as possible on the power that I mentioned. I gave my power requirements in the beginning to give you an idea as to what I had on tap.

I've had PG RSDs, MB Quarts, and ID OEMs, and none of which would keep up with my substage like I wanted. I'm looking for something that will keep up with a single Nightshade 18 on 3K. I have some rear fill, but my front stage is lacking. Should I go multiple sets in the front, or go with one loud *** set of something? Thats all I'm asking.

Thanks for your above posts though, they were enlightening

1ndatrunk
08-12-2009, 12:45 PM
CHEAP is also a relative term. I'm not saying "cheap" like a set of Sony or Pioneer REVs, but I'm not willing to shell out 5-600 on one set of Focals either.
100w per side, reliable, decent accuracy, and loud for under or around 250 per set is what I'm asking. I could go to Walmart and get 3-4 sets of roadmasters and call it a day, but thats not what I want to do. I want to still be able to LISTEN to what I'm playing, rather than hear it.

............and yeah, I'm MAD SON!!

SicAudio
08-12-2009, 01:01 PM
multiple sets is your best bet to get loud and keep up with 6kw of subs. there is no 1 set of speakers regardless of cost ( not even $4000 worth of kit 6 utopias) that can do that. never gona happen man, you definately need multiple speakers.

1ndatrunk
08-12-2009, 09:36 PM
multiple sets is your best bet to get loud and keep up with 6kw of subs. there is no 1 set of speakers regardless of cost ( not even $4000 worth of kit 6 utopias) that can do that. never gona happen man, you definately need multiple speakers.

I'm not on 6k yet, only 3k, but I get your point. That being said, what would you recommend? I'll double up once the rest of my system comes together when money permits, but what and how many of them would you think would be needed to keep up with my current situation?

dbeez
08-12-2009, 09:40 PM
how about a set of mids and 2 sets of tweets that would suffice..pm me for prices on what i can do to help you keep up...