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View Full Version : Why aren't more of you guys using horns?



amartin_72
07-30-2009, 01:45 AM
I decided to try horns but I want to have the cheapest possible setup. I spent $420 for speakers and amps including stuff to install them.

Two Lightning Audio B4.250.2's 120x1 @ 8 each- $16 shipped and $30 shipped
Two Selenium D250-X $80 Shipped
Two Dayton Waveguides $8 Shipped

One RF 401s 200x2 $75
Four Made in china no name 6.5's. $32 Shipped

Pyramid 3 way crossover $30 shipped

Deadening/Fiberglass and supplies for pods / install $150

Total Cost $420


Question :confused:Is the Pyramid degrading my signal? I should check out its internals but I want to get a better crossover.

I Have the horn drivers high passed at 4k cause I need bigger wave guides they are tiny. I'm going with the 8" Dayton ones.

The 6.5"s will be in .3ft each sealed in my next vehicle. Might try ported but I like them sealed.
Also The 6.5" is from the Same Chinese build house in as goldwood. I haven't checked one to see if the coil and suspension is the same. The goldwoods are only 15 bucks anyway so they aren't miracle speakers, but they work.


It is deafening. It is Too loud and I never thought I would say that. Subs are never too loud, but these will make your ears bleed and you can still hear every note clear. I think they have a pretty flat response. Bigger waveguides will help a lot.

I think If you have the room and plan on spending 250 or more on components its worth a shot. I would use better woofers and maybe a different horn driver but the concept is fun to play with. 2" coil 150RMS tweeters. Partsexpress 6's 7's or 8's 150 a pair and your set.

Miskin
07-30-2009, 01:46 AM
Answer: not many people have the room.

mikem355
07-30-2009, 01:48 AM
indeed, i ahve a set of ID ultra drivers with full and mini bodies, they wont fit in my truck but there are plenty of vehicles they will fit. that and theres alot more to it tha njsut putting horns, it takes a fair amount of knowledge and processing to make them sound good. Mine are BNIB and for sale :)

amartin_72
07-30-2009, 01:51 AM
Yeah I guess. They end up about 7-8 inch depth

michaellane
07-30-2009, 01:51 AM
i need pics...i couldnt get...well couldnt make myself read your post...its sooo sloppy i dont know whats going on?

amartin_72
07-30-2009, 01:58 AM
I will get some pics

Jeremy M
07-30-2009, 02:10 AM
indeed, i ahve a set of ID ultra drivers with full and mini bodies, they wont fit in my truck but there are plenty of vehicles they will fit. that and theres alot more to it tha njsut putting horns, it takes a fair amount of knowledge and processing to make them sound good. Mine are BNIB and for sale :)

price?

TnT_Sounds
07-30-2009, 02:13 AM
I have 2 compression horns and Selenium tweets. My compression horn are just under my dash

galacticmonkey
07-30-2009, 02:16 AM
The Selenium D250s with the long throw horn on the end are nasty loud. Want to buy some for myself. :)

here to buy
07-30-2009, 02:18 AM
THE POWER OF PRO AUDIO **** STILL HAS TO GET OUT INTO THE MASSES OF THE CAR AUDIO WORLD.

If you got alot of bass, pro audio drivers are the way to go.
they fun too, and attract more hunnies

TnT_Sounds
07-30-2009, 02:21 AM
The Selenium D250s with the long throw horn on the end are nasty loud. Want to buy some for myself. :)

You wouldn't believe how loud they are ;)

Get ya some man

thegreatestpenn
07-30-2009, 02:21 AM
no room for horns in the civic unless I did alot of fabricating

SWFL
07-30-2009, 02:22 AM
I have 2 compression horns and Selenium tweets. My compression horn are just under my dash

what horns?

galacticmonkey
07-30-2009, 02:23 AM
You wouldn't believe how loud they are ;)

Get ya some man

Yeah a local guy has 36 12" B&Cs and 28 Selenium D250s. Its the most ridiculous thing Ive ever heard.

SWFL
07-30-2009, 02:23 AM
The Selenium D250s with the long throw horn on the end are nasty loud. Want to buy some for myself. :)
you talking about these

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SELENIUM-TWO-D250X-200W-MIDRANGE-COMP-DRIVER-W-HORNS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQ hashZitem4836aa8ab3QQitemZ310154791603QQptZCarQ5fS peakers

or the shorter horn?

galacticmonkey
07-30-2009, 02:26 AM
Those ones.

SWFL
07-30-2009, 02:28 AM
be kinda hard to fit on your car ha. the other cones will still get loud as hell

these

http://cgi.ebay.com/SELENIUM-TWO-D250X-200W-MIDRANGE-COMP-DRIVER-W-HORNS_W0QQitemZ270432770811QQcategoryZ14936QQcmdZV iewItemQQ_trksidZp3907.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSI%2 6its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BUA%252BFICS%26otn%3 D15%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D54

or even

http://cgi.ebay.com/SELENIUM-TWO-D250X-200W-MIDRANGE-COMP-DRIVER-W-HORNS_W0QQitemZ280376753291QQcategoryZ14936QQcmdZV iewItemQQ_trksidZp3907.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSICD D%252BSI%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA %252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D15%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D54

whats the diff in the horns far as sound just the disperssion or what?

TnT_Sounds
07-30-2009, 02:31 AM
Yeah a local guy has 36 12" B&Cs and 28 Selenium D250s. Its the most ridiculous thing Ive ever heard.

for sures bro.. to say the least I was far beyond impressed.. After getting these I wont ever run component sets again.

TnT_Sounds
07-30-2009, 02:32 AM
be kinda hard to fit on your car ha. the other cones will still get loud as hell

these

http://cgi.ebay.com/SELENIUM-TWO-D250X-200W-MIDRANGE-COMP-DRIVER-W-HORNS_W0QQitemZ270432770811QQcategoryZ14936QQcmdZV iewItemQQ_trksidZp3907.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSI%2 6its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BUA%252BFICS%26otn%3 D15%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D54

or even

http://cgi.ebay.com/SELENIUM-TWO-D250X-200W-MIDRANGE-COMP-DRIVER-W-HORNS_W0QQitemZ280376753291QQcategoryZ14936QQcmdZV iewItemQQ_trksidZp3907.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSICD D%252BSI%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA %252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D15%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D54

whats the diff in the horns far as sound just the disperssion or what?

difference is ear piercing loud or smooth loud. My guess anyways, I'm still a noob when it comes to these. I dont know as much as I would like. :crap:

ninjawhiteboy12
07-30-2009, 02:38 AM
what are the benefits to horns compared to a comp set? and dont you still need mids?

TnT_Sounds
07-30-2009, 02:42 AM
what are the benefits to horns compared to a comp set? and dont you still need mids?

When I'm running 14k watts to 6 woofers... Midbass is going to have to be rediculously huge to keep up. You dont need mids at that level is my personal opinion. My horns and tweets keep just fine. I can hear words clear as day outside my truck over the bass at full tilt even

SWFL
07-30-2009, 02:44 AM
how far down do your horns and tweets play?? arent most vocals voice range in that 500-2khz area??

TnT_Sounds
07-30-2009, 02:49 AM
I believe mine go down to 250hz. My crossover is set at that to if I'm not mistaken

SWFL
07-30-2009, 02:51 AM
the horns are playing what ranges and the tweets what ranges do they play

also what kind of power you giving each horn and tweet?

mlstrass
07-30-2009, 11:24 AM
Not everyone cares to be heard from 3 blocks away. And some guys actually listen to real music and want something that sounds good. But for just getting stupid loud I do agree that horns can do the trick.

I messed with some cheapo PE horns last year and they did get very loud off little power and I was able to make them sound pretty good with a lot of EQ work. But my current tweeter array is MUCH better sounding and has plenty of output INSIDE the car.

Miskin
07-30-2009, 11:34 AM
What does your tweet array consist of mlstrass?

JimJ
07-30-2009, 11:36 AM
You can't just put PA horns in a vehicle and expect a useful dispersion pattern. That's why the USD/ID horns are shaped the way they are...

I love horns, want to use them at home, but even in the van I'm not sure I'll get the proper staging with the way the dash is. And I'm not rebuilding the dash (yet).

bdawson72
07-30-2009, 11:59 AM
My truck and horns are a noooo gooo

bdawson72
07-30-2009, 12:00 PM
You can't just put PA horns in a vehicle and expect a useful dispersion pattern. That's why the USD/ID horns are shaped the way they are...

I love horns, want to use them at home, but even in the van I'm not sure I'll get the proper staging with the way the dash is. And I'm not rebuilding the dash (yet).

If I had horns I dont think that I'd give a ****.

ninjawhiteboy12
07-30-2009, 01:47 PM
is there a thread that explains the instalation and aplication for horns? or can someone explain it for me, will horns play midbass as well or better than a conventional midbass driver and in what case would you use horns and what case would you not use them? Thanks

tez4life
07-30-2009, 04:09 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKag2CSOvbw


Saw this randomly on youtube, I believe those are the horns in question with the Selenium tweeters. Seem very loud and clear, even though thats firing outside, lol.

I cant imagine where you would install those in a car however, :). TnT Sounds, do you have any pics of your install of them? Just curious.

ninjawhiteboy12
07-30-2009, 05:13 PM
are there many companies even making horns? the only ones i have come across are ID and Selenium and the reast are not for car audio, any ideas?

gotparts90
07-30-2009, 05:17 PM
indeed, i ahve a set of ID ultra drivers with full and mini bodies, they wont fit in my truck but there are plenty of vehicles they will fit. that and theres alot more to it tha njsut putting horns, it takes a fair amount of knowledge and processing to make them sound good. Mine are BNIB and for sale :)

how much for just the mini bodies? I have full body cd2's but the full body does not fit.

bass_lover1
07-30-2009, 05:32 PM
is there a thread that explains the instalation and aplication for horns? or can someone explain it for me, will horns play midbass as well or better than a conventional midbass driver and in what case would you use horns and what case would you not use them? Thanks

ID has some stuff posted on youtube.

No, horns are not meant for midbass. Basically they are really efficient tweeters, that play much lower than your conventional 1" dome tweeter. A well designed horn can play down to 1khz no issue, I don't know of many 1" dome tweeters that can play that low without imploding.

galacticmonkey
07-30-2009, 05:36 PM
The Selenium D250s with the long throw horns can play to around 300hz, with around 100rms. All this and some insane sensitivity.

bass_lover1
07-30-2009, 05:54 PM
The Selenium D250s with the long throw horns can play to around 300hz, with around 100rms. All this and some insane sensitivity.

I'd use those Seleniums if I only cared about ear bleeding loud, otherwise IMO they're pretty useless without some serious installation and tuning skills.

Horsemanwill
07-30-2009, 07:12 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBSgyrOrFK4

youtube for horns. also a pair of full body cd2pro, and ultra's can play down to 800 hz at 24db with no prob. only take 40 watts :D. the stuff you guys are comparing ID horns, crystal horns, and USD horns to doesn't even hold water to their stuff. I'm running a set of ultra fullbodies using a cd7100 for processing and it sounds awesome.

the guy with the civic who said no room there's room you might have to move a few things around but there's room seen it done lots of times.

galacticmonkey
07-30-2009, 07:22 PM
I'd use those Seleniums if I only cared about ear bleeding loud, otherwise IMO they're pretty useless without some serious installation and tuning skills.

When Im building a loud car, thats all I care about. :)

bass_lover1
07-30-2009, 08:42 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBSgyrOrFK4

youtube for horns. also a pair of full body cd2pro, and ultra's can play down to 800 hz at 24db with no prob. only take 40 watts :D. the stuff you guys are comparing ID horns, crystal horns, and USD horns to doesn't even hold water to their stuff. I'm running a set of ultra fullbodies using a cd7100 for processing and it sounds awesome.

the guy with the civic who said no room there's room you might have to move a few things around but there's room seen it done lots of times.

Please tell me how ID's compression drivers are so much better than something that B&C has to offer?

Horsemanwill
07-30-2009, 08:43 PM
it's not so much the drivers as it is the horn body. the body is what makes a world of difference.

bass_lover1
07-30-2009, 10:25 PM
it's not so much the drivers as it is the horn body. the body is what makes a world of difference.

Uhh, durrr?

ID seems to be probably the only company that makes horn bodies designed for cars. Though, it's not a fair comparison, because outside of their respective applications I don't expect optimal performance from either style.

Horsemanwill
07-30-2009, 10:27 PM
actually if i remember right someone built a ht using ID's drivers and bodies. but i could be wrong

bass_lover1
07-30-2009, 11:35 PM
I know it's doable, but what I'm saying is, if I were to build speakers for HT and wanted to use horns, my first thought wouldn't be ID horn bodies, I'd pick up a regular flare from PE for dirt cheap.

Same goes for car, though ID bodies aren't cheap, my first though would be ID bodies.

tez4life
07-30-2009, 11:41 PM
Horsewill makes a very good point, comparing ID horns to the ones I posted is a night and day difference. I would love a set of Ultras, but dont have the processing to tune them with my current HU :crap:, or the money for them either lol.

If I was seriously going the horn route, thats prob what I would do. Though, for a none critical install for a average basshead, I imagine the Selenium would work ok, if you can find room.

bass_lover1
07-30-2009, 11:49 PM
Horsewill makes a very good point, comparing ID horns to the ones I posted is a night and day difference. I would love a set of Ultras, but dont have the processing to tune them with my current HU :crap:, or the money for them either lol.

If I was seriously going the horn route, thats prob what I would do. Though, for a none critical install for a average basshead, I imagine the Selenium would work ok, if you can find room.

He was really talking about the bodies, not the drivers them selves. Chances are ID uses a modified B&C or Selenium driver for their horns. I don't know this for certain, but it wouldn't surprise me.

tez4life
07-30-2009, 11:51 PM
He was really talking about the bodies, not the drivers them selves. Chances are ID uses a modified B&C or Selenium driver for their horns. I don't know this for certain, but it wouldn't surprise me.

Thats true, thats one of the keys to the IDs anyway the dispersal pattern of the mini and full bodies.

ninjawhiteboy12
07-31-2009, 01:57 AM
can you buy the horn body and the driver separately? in that case which driver would perform the best?

T3mpest
07-31-2009, 02:44 AM
He was really talking about the bodies, not the drivers them selves. Chances are ID uses a modified B&C or Selenium driver for their horns. I don't know this for certain, but it wouldn't surprise me.

It's a modified B&C driver from what I've been told. Hopefully this is true as I got a set of B&C de500s as they should be the same as ID's ultra line, however I've never got a chance to A/B it.

ninjawhiteboy12
07-31-2009, 03:03 AM
in the horn driver itself, what do you look for? just wondering so i can research, thanks

bass_lover1
07-31-2009, 12:14 PM
in the horn driver itself, what do you look for? just wondering so i can research, thanks

Something that can play the frequency range you want it to...should be pretty simple, PE has like 50 to choose from.

JimJ
07-31-2009, 12:42 PM
FR, throat diameter...

ninjawhiteboy12
07-31-2009, 01:43 PM
i dont know much about horns or how they work but are there other things involved like the metal type, or anything else that would give me an insight on if it would perform over another for my needs?

bass_lover1
07-31-2009, 04:58 PM
I wouldn't really worry about the diaphragm material. If you want something that can fit on ID horn bodies, which are made specifically for a car, then you'll want a 1" exit. I don't recall if ID has different mounting styles for the minis or full bodied horns, but I know the minis are 2 bolt, the fulls might be 3 bolt. Either way, there are horn drivers that use both a 2 and 3 bolt pattern.

Then, just find one that will play the frequency you want. My Celestion drivers are like tweeters on steroids. They'll play up to 20khz, but they'll also play down to 1khz with a steep crossover, which is how I plan to use them.

ninjawhiteboy12
07-31-2009, 05:01 PM
ok thanks, are there any brands that would be good to look at? sorry im such a pain im very clueless when it comes to horns

JimJ
07-31-2009, 05:05 PM
I'd start with B&C.

Vintage Altec alnico drivers are some of the best I've heard, but they're too bulky (almost beer-can sized) for car use. The B&C ones are much shallower.

ninjawhiteboy12
07-31-2009, 05:12 PM
ok good to know thank you, I have been looking at B&C, Selenium, and ID so far

bass_lover1
07-31-2009, 05:12 PM
PE is selling Selenium horns with a 2/3 bolt pattern for around 40 bucks each. They're cheap enough to give you a taste of what horns are about, if you don't like them you aren't out that much. Some of the upper end B&C drivers are 1-140 each, bit pricey just to test them out.

ninjawhiteboy12
07-31-2009, 05:17 PM
ok thanks that is good to know, i have been looking at B&C, Selenium, and ID so far
i had a question though, on the selenium website they show supertweeters, compression drivers, horns, and phenolic categories, what exactly are they and what is the difference
http://www.iakn.com/prosound/prohome.html

psychoacoustics
07-31-2009, 05:17 PM
my crx

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee266/psychoacoustics/IMG_1921.jpg

JimJ
07-31-2009, 05:29 PM
On a related note, this is me demonstrating how not to install horn throats...

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/3698/cimg38081.jpg

I noticed eventually :D

ninjawhiteboy12
08-01-2009, 02:41 PM
this driver is looking very good http://www.iakn.com/prosound/D3500ti.html
also this one but it doesnt play as low http://www.usspeaker.com/bms%204540-1.htm

bass_lover1
08-01-2009, 02:48 PM
I'd really aim for something cheaper, personally. That Selenium is about 250-280 PER driver, then you need horn bodies, which aren't really that cheap either. That BMS looks nice, but I don't believe there are any horn bodies made for cars that accept threaded drivers.

ninjawhiteboy12
08-01-2009, 09:30 PM
well if i get something i want to get a high quality drive and not have to rebuy things in the future

Horsemanwill
08-01-2009, 09:31 PM
ninjawhiteboy12 you're ALWAYS asking questions about stuff you'll never buy honestly. i'm not sure why you even ask the things you ask.

MmatsDude
08-01-2009, 09:34 PM
THE POWER OF PRO AUDIO **** STILL HAS TO GET OUT INTO THE MASSES OF THE CAR AUDIO WORLD.

If you got alot of bass, pro audio drivers are the way to go.
they fun too, and attract more hunnies

:eek:

bigaudiofanati2
08-01-2009, 09:38 PM
I think I may go with horns but I am not sure yet. Still deciding on which way to do.

ninjawhiteboy12
08-01-2009, 11:47 PM
are there any horn bodies that will work well in a car situation besides the ID's, the reason i ask is because im looking into 2in drivers and the id's are 1in

JimJ
08-01-2009, 11:53 PM
Use the ID-style bodies.

ninjawhiteboy12
08-02-2009, 01:22 AM
wait the ID-style????? i wish ID made them in 2in, but all the other bodies i have seen no way resemble id bodies

Towncar
08-02-2009, 01:40 AM
I would love to try some horns out, especially for the very large system I have planned coming up, but I just cant see myself forking out 600 or so for some good quality ones.

T3mpest
08-02-2009, 04:54 AM
I would love to try some horns out, especially for the very large system I have planned coming up, but I just cant see myself forking out 600 or so for some good quality ones.

You don't have to really. Get some horn bodies from ID directly for like 100. Parts express has plenty of high quality 1" horns for good pricing. Selenium, B&C, and Radian would be the three companies I'd be looking at if you want something that can potentially sound good as well as getting loud. ID has been selling rebadged B&C drivers for years, might as well cut out the middleman.... (I do own xs69's tho lol)

Pioneer~Saturn
08-02-2009, 11:58 AM
THE POWER OF PRO AUDIO **** STILL HAS TO GET OUT INTO THE MASSES OF THE CAR AUDIO WORLD.

If you got alot of bass, pro audio drivers are the way to go.
they fun too, and attract more hunnies

As many as W7's? :confused:

James Bang
08-02-2009, 02:30 PM
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a11/mobster909/new%20items/IMG00238.jpg

Horsemanwill
08-02-2009, 06:51 PM
why won't u let the por dog in?

Towncar
08-02-2009, 08:12 PM
You don't have to really. Get some horn bodies from ID directly for like 100. Parts express has plenty of high quality 1" horns for good pricing. Selenium, B&C, and Radian would be the three companies I'd be looking at if you want something that can potentially sound good as well as getting loud. ID has been selling rebadged B&C drivers for years, might as well cut out the middleman.... (I do own xs69's tho lol)

So horns from parts express, and the casing from id? What about issues with bolt patterns lining up, and mounting hardware?

bass_lover1
08-02-2009, 09:12 PM
So horns from parts express, and the casing from id? What about issues with bolt patterns lining up, and mounting hardware?

ID horns use a 2 or 3 bolt pattern, some of the bolt on horns accept both patterns, if you were worried.

James Bang
08-02-2009, 09:33 PM
ID horns use a 2 or 3 bolt pattern, some of the bolt on horns accept both patterns, if you were worried.

or.. just mark and drill new holes.

Towncar
08-02-2009, 09:45 PM
ID horns use a 2 or 3 bolt pattern, some of the bolt on horns accept both patterns, if you were worried.

Hmm, i guess the only issue I would have is mounting them. To the drawing boards i guess..

Horsemanwill
08-02-2009, 10:07 PM
mounting the horns isn't really that hard.

Towncar
08-02-2009, 11:15 PM
mounting the horns isn't really that hard.

How did you go about mountig yours? I just can't picture it for whatever reason. The reason is probably because of the length of it.

Horsemanwill
08-02-2009, 11:28 PM
the length of the horn can be cut down. as show in this vid. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sef9cGPfru0&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eimagedynamicsusa%2Ecom%2Ff orum%2Findex%2Ephp%3Fshowtopic%3D3080&feature=player_embedded

if you showed some pics of the underdash of your car i could give you some ideas. and if i can't come up with anytthing i'm sure Eric or matt in the ID forum could. i have pics of my horns in the id gallery.

James Bang
08-02-2009, 11:33 PM
bolts/screws and plumbers tape... or L-brackets. get creative.

Towncar
08-03-2009, 12:28 AM
the length of the horn can be cut down. as show in this vid. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sef9cGPfru0&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eimagedynamicsusa%2Ecom%2Ff orum%2Findex%2Ephp%3Fshowtopic%3D3080&feature=player_embedded

if you showed some pics of the underdash of your car i could give you some ideas. and if i can't come up with anytthing i'm sure Eric or matt in the ID forum could. i have pics of my horns in the id gallery.

This video helped alot.. I didnt know that you could just put screws threw the plastic casing like that. Now that I know this, it makes things simple. The only issue I face now is the midbass/ midrange driver that will be used.

Towncar
08-03-2009, 01:17 AM
Looking at theh Selenium drivers, they dont seem to use bolts? Looks like they just screw in. When looking at the b&c drivers, they use the bolt pattern. Pricing looks better on the seleniums. For the most part the drivers are either cheap30-50 bux, or somewhat pricey 80- 100+. Im just not sure If im going to be happy with a 30-40 dollar horn.

ninjawhiteboy12
08-03-2009, 01:31 AM
yeah i know what you mean about the 30-40 dollar horns, does anyone make an ID-style horn bodie for a 2in driver?

RogerKline
08-03-2009, 01:45 AM
yeah i know what you mean about the 30-40 dollar horns, does anyone make an ID-style horn bodie for a 2in driver?


No. You can however modify the ID lenses to fit a 1.25" compression driver. Or go with some old Illusion lenses and get rid of that nasty bend in the ID lenses.

RAM_Designs
08-03-2009, 01:57 AM
Nice helpful vid for sure...especially since I have the same truck. :D

Now you guys have me wanting to do horns...

RAM_Designs
08-03-2009, 04:51 PM
Seems like I can't find any good 1" horns aren't threaded and can be crossed at 1.6khz without paying around $100 or so per horn. :( But I am able to use a 24db/oct crossover, so maybe I can get away with a horn that recommends a 12db/oct slope at 2khz and just cross it hard at 1.6khz?

bass_lover1
08-03-2009, 07:14 PM
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-271

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=290-442

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=290-526

All under your price.

Also, remember that the lower the driver is able to play, generally the more it will lack in the upper end.

EDIT: Be careful of the compression drivers with larger diameters, they probably wont fit on the mini body IDs without modifying the body it self.

krankster
08-03-2009, 07:18 PM
i use horns

krankster
08-03-2009, 07:20 PM
i use the best there is :)

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff58/noyztoyz/IMG_0309.jpg

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff58/noyztoyz/IMG_0311.jpg

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff58/noyztoyz/IMG_0529.jpg

but just for shows only, them things are too huge:)

MegaloJntariac
08-03-2009, 07:28 PM
horns are for people who are afraid of tweeters

ninjawhiteboy12
08-03-2009, 07:35 PM
**** those are some huge horns

krankster
08-03-2009, 07:37 PM
when the mids is playing max, theres a 10 foot radius, where you cant stand to listen to the music because the mids from above 1200 hertz emanating from the drivers will kill your ear.
only on max volume,
plays with exceptional quality.

JimJ
08-03-2009, 07:40 PM
I'd really like to own a pair of these someday:

http://www.oswaldsmillaudio.com/images/mill%20system/DSC_0826.jpg

:D

I've heard the 2-bay multicells, and they were the most dynamic things I've heard yet. Can only imagine what the bigger ones sound like :)

RAM_Designs
08-03-2009, 07:43 PM
Hey Mir, I saw that you had some ID minis at one point...how did you like them, and what model driver was being used?

RAM_Designs
08-03-2009, 07:45 PM
And bass_lover, I like those prices...but those response curves are ragged as hell. :crap:

bass_lover1
08-03-2009, 07:56 PM
And bass_lover, I like those prices...but those response curves are ragged as hell. :crap:

Your point? A big center console is going to **** with FR enough to where those graphs are nice, but not all that meaningful. They'll give you an idea of its bandwidth, but not really close to what it will do in car.

And you're crazy if you're considering horns without a quality dual band EQ.

MegaloJntariac
08-03-2009, 07:59 PM
Hey Mir, I saw that you had some ID minis at one point...how did you like them, and what model driver was being used?

sounded ****** compared to my setup now with the Tangband ceramics. I could never get the stage high enough, and had some tonal issues.

We should meet up sometime so you can hear my current setup. It completely sounds different from the last time you heard my car.

James Bang
08-03-2009, 08:03 PM
sounded ****** compared to my setup now with the Tangband ceramics. I could never get the stage high enough, and had some tonal issues.

We should meet up sometime so you can hear my current setup. It completely sounds different from the last time you heard my car.

Megalo was too noob to tune the horns. user error.

lambofgood91
08-03-2009, 08:13 PM
I'd really like to own a pair of these someday:

http://www.oswaldsmillaudio.com/images/mill%20system/DSC_0826.jpg

:D

I've heard the 2-bay multicells, and they were the most dynamic things I've heard yet. Can only imagine what the bigger ones sound like :)

:eek:

Those things are HUGEEEEEE

RAM_Designs
08-03-2009, 08:14 PM
I'd love to hear the new setup, and you're not too far away now either. I'm right at Plano Parkway and Parker, so you can't be more than maybe 10 minutes away. You change your setup so often that the last time I heard your car(which was maybe 3-4 months ago at Audio Depot) was probably 3-4 setups ago. :D

I'm just having a hell of a time deciding on what I'm going to do next as far as tweets/horns/2" fullrange array goes. What TB tweets are you using? I've been using the $19 1" fabric neos for almost 2 years now. I've just kinda gotten the itch to try something new/worthwhile, and I'm wanting high efficiency so I don't have to **** near kill the tweet to get it at the level I like to jam my Zeppelin and Pink Floyd at.


edit: Found those TB ceramics...looks like a pretty flat response straight out the box, and can crossover low as well(exactly what I need). What crossover point are you using for them, and how's the distortion when crossed around 2khz with a pretty steep slope? The tweets I'm using now just kill me with low-end distortion. I have to limit myself to a 24db slope at 3.15khz because the saxophone/guitar/Robert Plant's voice just drive me crazy if I drop them any lower.

ciaonzo
08-03-2009, 09:44 PM
I'd really like to own a pair of these someday:

http://www.oswaldsmillaudio.com/images/mill%20system/DSC_0826.jpg

:D

I've heard the 2-bay multicells, and they were the most dynamic things I've heard yet. Can only imagine what the bigger ones sound like :)

Altec?

Frijoles24
08-03-2009, 10:16 PM
im planning to make horns in my car for my focal kp2s but no time yet =(

Frijoles24
08-03-2009, 10:16 PM
actually horned enclosure.

MegaloJntariac
08-04-2009, 01:48 AM
Megalo was too noob to tune the horns. user error.

ID CD1 Pro

pssh not worth the hassle, keep them ears ringing.

JimJ
08-04-2009, 02:33 PM
Altec?

Those are listed as RCAs, but I know Altec did make 3-level multicells for the really huge VOTT models.

ninjawhiteboy12
08-05-2009, 11:52 PM
what do you guys think about this horn driver?
http://www.usspeaker.com/bms%204540-1.htm
i wish there was a way to fit it into the ID horn bodies

are there any other 1in horns that you guys think would get loud, sound good, and have good frequency extension?

does anyone else make a horn body that is sorta like the ID in a 2in?

Horsemanwill
08-06-2009, 12:02 AM
no

bass_lover1
08-06-2009, 02:06 AM
what do you guys think about this horn driver?
http://www.usspeaker.com/bms%204540-1.htm
i wish there was a way to fit it into the ID horn bodies

are there any other 1in horns that you guys think would get loud, sound good, and have good frequency extension?

does anyone else make a horn body that is sorta like the ID in a 2in?

I'm pretty sure you already asked this question, in this very thread. I'm also pretty sure the answer hasn't changed since then.

smoka
08-06-2009, 03:03 AM
Unity Horn FTMFW

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diy-mobile-audio/60146-creating-perfect-soundstage-3.html#post761588

Good luck finding the space though.

ninjawhiteboy12
08-08-2009, 02:52 AM
i emailed ID and the set of horn bodies is 180, the id horn bodies help both imaging and mounting correct so even if i got another horn body that would fit it still wouldnt work as well in a car situation as the id's right?

bass_lover1
08-08-2009, 03:44 PM
i emailed ID and the set of horn bodies is 180, the id horn bodies help both imaging and mounting correct so even if i got another horn body that would fit it still wouldnt work as well in a car situation as the id's right?


Of course ID is going to tell you that, in hopes that you'll believe it and buy them. The thing is though, the IDs are the easiest to purchase, the few other horn bodies that are out there, IIRC they aren't produced any more which means searching high and low for someone selling a set.

ninjawhiteboy12
08-08-2009, 04:56 PM
are the IIRC bodies made for car audio? couldnt i just get another horn body that would fit the driver and fit in my car or will it hurt imaging and what not?

bass_lover1
08-08-2009, 07:28 PM
are the IIRC bodies made for car audio? couldnt i just get another horn body that would fit the driver and fit in my car or will it hurt imaging and what not?

Typo, it should have been "IIRC, they"

You can do whatever you want. Try it out, if you aren't happy, then move on to something else.

Horsemanwill
08-08-2009, 08:06 PM
ID horn bodies are about the only ones still made. the other companies don't make them any more or they cost ALOT of money. mounting regular horn bodies in your car won't help with your staging or imaging. especially if mounted under the dash as ID horns are.

ninjawhiteboy12
08-08-2009, 08:27 PM
is there a way that you could fit a threaded driver into the ID bodies? i guess i could always make an adapter, i was thinking that this looked to be about the best 1in driver for frequensy response, sensitivity, and good sounding http://bmspro.com/4540ND.bms_4540nd_compression_driver.0.html
any other ideas?

ciaonzo
08-08-2009, 08:30 PM
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-322

Might work.

I've done similar things with my USD/SpeakerWorks horns.

bass_lover1
08-08-2009, 09:29 PM
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-322

Might work.

I've done similar things with my USD/SpeakerWorks horns.

It would need to be modified to accommodate the more standard 2bolt mounting pattern on ID horn bodies.

ninjawhiteboy12
08-08-2009, 10:12 PM
oh those usd horns look very promising, how do you like them?

ciaonzo
08-08-2009, 10:15 PM
It would need to be modified to accommodate the more standard 2bolt mounting pattern on ID horn bodies.

Easy peasy.

Horsemanwill
08-08-2009, 10:18 PM
i've never seen a price on the usd horn bodies but since your so budget minded i'm almost positive they aren't in the price range u want.

ciaonzo
08-08-2009, 10:31 PM
oh those usd horns look very promising, how do you like them?

They performed quite well, requiring the usual attention to deadening the horn bodies and lots of EQ time but once you get everything setup it's really something. I bought them in '95 and paid around $350 (I think) for the entry level kit because I knew I was going to put a different compression driver on them. I went with a 3" titanium diaphragm so that I could EQ the bottom end quite heavily to make up for the lack of loading past 800hz or so. I used them down to 400hz with about 35 watts. I think the main advantage with these when compared to ID is how the throat design handles the high frequencies. I had wonderful high frequency extension to 18khz with very little finessing of the EQ which is pretty good considering it was a 3" membrane. The way the compression chamber on the driver is designed has a large effect on that as well.

ciaonzo
08-08-2009, 10:44 PM
For the life of me, I can't remember what brand of driver I used. Here's a couple pics of the workup. Sadly these are the only pics that remain of this setup, no finished pics. I didn't have a digital camera back then. :crap:

http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww43/ciaonzo/Tens%20in%20the%20Doors/DSC03009.jpg
http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww43/ciaonzo/Tens%20in%20the%20Doors/DSC03004.jpg
http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww43/ciaonzo/Tens%20in%20the%20Doors/DSC03005.jpg
http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww43/ciaonzo/Tens%20in%20the%20Doors/DSC03007.jpg
http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww43/ciaonzo/Tens%20in%20the%20Doors/DSC03008.jpg
http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww43/ciaonzo/Tens%20in%20the%20Doors/DSC03002.jpg

ninjawhiteboy12
08-08-2009, 11:07 PM
what are you running in the modded door? 10's, what kind, looks like a nice set-up

ciaonzo
08-08-2009, 11:14 PM
what are you running in the modded door? 10's, what kind, looks like a nice set-up

That setup is long gone. It was a Vifa PL26WR09-04. Not quite the best match for efficiency but since I was running the horn so low in frequency, that was the limiting factor anyway. It was still the most powerful frontstage I've had to date. Very warm and dynamic.

Horsemanwill
08-08-2009, 11:19 PM
you had to point the usd bodies upwards like that?

ciaonzo
08-08-2009, 11:27 PM
you had to point the usd bodies upwards like that?

I didn't have to but it did help raise the stage a bit due to the fact that this was in a tiny little '92 Toyota 1/2 ton pickup. :)

Horsemanwill
08-08-2009, 11:35 PM
i wish for the life of me i could find the old article did by car audio & electronics magazine where they did side by side tests of all the "big" horn companies back then.

ciaonzo
08-08-2009, 11:45 PM
i wish for the life of me i could find the old article did by car audio & electronics magazine where they did side by side tests of all the "big" horn companies back then.

I have it somewhere. :)

Horsemanwill
08-08-2009, 11:58 PM
i did back in the days then it disappeared :(. you'd think they'd have it archived online but nooooo

ciaonzo
08-09-2009, 12:00 AM
i did back in the days then it disappeared :(. you'd think they'd have it archived online but nooooo
I was just looking for it online as well. Came up empty-handed.

treylittlefield
08-19-2009, 12:08 AM
so if i was to put horns in my s10 would this work??
http://www.imagedynamicsstore.com/idstore/image-dynamics-cs162mh-hlcd-component-system-p-128.html

and i wouldnt have to worry bout a crossover or anything b/c it comes wit it right?? :)

JimJ
08-19-2009, 12:10 AM
I'd still want to bi-amp them, personally.

Horsemanwill
08-19-2009, 12:10 AM
that's an old site and hasn't been updated. those "sets" have been discontinued for awhile now. but if they do happen to have old stock then it should work. also fyi those xovers were more for the mid then the horn.

treylittlefield
08-19-2009, 08:23 AM
that's an old site and hasn't been updated. those "sets" have been discontinued for awhile now. but if they do happen to have old stock then it should work. also fyi those xovers were more for the mid then the horn.

so what would you use to crossover the horns with?? is there any crossovers i could buy and them work??

Horsemanwill
08-19-2009, 06:06 PM
it depends on which horn you buy. i myself use the xover in my HU which is an Eclipse CD7100. if your wanting a passive xover i think there's a layout over at the ID forum that shows you wat you need.

treylittlefield
08-19-2009, 11:00 PM
it depends on which horn you buy. i myself use the xover in my HU which is an Eclipse CD7100. if your wanting a passive xover i think there's a layout over at the ID forum that shows you wat you need.

which one would be the best to use?? and could u show me where they say that cause i cant seem to find it. lol

Horsemanwill
08-19-2009, 11:19 PM
it depends on what your lookin for both of the horns they have now are excellent choices it may have been deleted as i said it was awhile ago. what does the rest of your system compose of?

treylittlefield
08-19-2009, 11:29 PM
it depends on what your lookin for both of the horns they have now are excellent choices it may have been deleted as i said it was awhile ago. what does the rest of your system compose of?

will soon be 2 btls's. i have infinity plate speakers and 3 way door speakers. they started messin up so im wantin somethin to keep up with the 2 btl's. :) and i think horns are the way to go and put some mids in the door and i'll be set

Brian_smith06
08-19-2009, 11:35 PM
if you ad horns you are going to want some sort of a processor so a new active capable headunit is your best bet there. then you will want to find the horns you want, and a nice set of mids. feed them some decent power and they should sound pretty good.

there is more to it than that but you should get the idea

to properly run horns you are going to be dropping a pretty good penny, hence why i never have been able to run them :(

treylittlefield
08-19-2009, 11:44 PM
if you ad horns you are going to want some sort of a processor so a new active capable headunit is your best bet there. then you will want to find the horns you want, and a nice set of mids. feed them some decent power and they should sound pretty good.

there is more to it than that but you should get the idea

to properly run horns you are going to be dropping a pretty good penny, hence why i never have been able to run them :(

well i was hopin i could find some used :) haha whats so special about a headunit that makes it to where u can run it active?? what would be a good set of horns and mids and a good SQ amp?? i figured i'd have to use the mini bodies beins my truck is so little. lol

Brian_smith06
08-19-2009, 11:51 PM
im guessing you have an s10? you said door speakers and plates so that sounds like an s10.

also it is important to be able to run active due to not all speakers being created equally and are not ment to play certain frequencies. with an active capable deck you can set your own xover points so each speaker plays the frequencies you want them to play

SWFL
08-19-2009, 11:56 PM
are those ID horns made to sound good and detailed or can they get loud as well??

atsaubrey
08-19-2009, 11:58 PM
yes and yes

Horsemanwill
08-20-2009, 12:03 AM
are you planning on installing this on your own? the hardest part on horns is mostly getting it as far out and back as possible. you might be able to find a set of horns for 250 up to 500 used. depends on which one. keep in mind the cd1e v1 and v2, the cd1pro, the cd2pro have all been discontinued and i'm not sure if repair parts are still available. if your just lookin to keep up with your subs i'd recommend the cd1v3 they are an excellent beginner horn. what hu do you have now?

Horsemanwill
08-20-2009, 12:05 AM
are those ID horns made to sound good and detailed or can they get loud as well??

both i told u this mang

Horsemanwill
08-20-2009, 12:19 AM
these are the min/recommended xover settings for the horns for the cd1e fullbody 1000hz@12db/oct cd1e mini 1200hz@12db/oct ultra full bodies 800hz@12db/oct and ultra mini 1000@12db/oct

treylittlefield
08-20-2009, 12:51 AM
are you planning on installing this on your own? the hardest part on horns is mostly getting it as far out and back as possible. you might be able to find a set of horns for 250 up to 500 used. depends on which one. keep in mind the cd1e v1 and v2, the cd1pro, the cd2pro have all been discontinued and i'm not sure if repair parts are still available. if your just lookin to keep up with your subs i'd recommend the cd1v3 they are an excellent beginner horn. what hu do you have now?

i currently have a kenwood head unit. i honesly dont remember the model number. so what would be a little better than the cd1v3?? if u were me what would u use as far as mids, amps, horns, and processors and deck. my headunit now has a option on it to set the front and rear HPF it goes from 40-220 i beileve...

Horsemanwill
08-20-2009, 12:52 AM
the setup i have now with a bitone processor :D

Image Dynamics
08-20-2009, 01:18 AM
Depending on your amplifier you will not need the active x-over from the head unit.

One simple solution I recommend to many horn noobies is:

Imange Dynamics Q450.4 (75w x 4 @ 4ohm) $579.00 (retail)
CD1EMH (ferrite motor mini body) $329.00 (retail)
CX62v.2 (Chameleon 2 ohm 6.5" mid) $200.00 (retail)

Heres why...

The Q450.4 has good power and a flexible active crossover built-in.
The CD1E driver is 8 ohm and will see approx. 35-40w each (at 8 ohm)
The CX62v.2 is a 2 ohm mid bass driver and will receive approx. 150w each
This will give you a nice power spread between the horns and the mid driver.
Keep in mind that the CD1EMH is 109db efficient so they don't need a ton of power to get really loud.
If you are looking for a GREAT component set you would spend around $500 any way and (personally) I think horns sound better than tweeters. Just my opinion so horn haters back off).

You might want to look into a good eq, as it helps to tweak the horns. Also playing with the phase relative to the mid will help strengthen the sound stage and help shift the stage left or right (depending on your needs).

If you have indepth questions call us at the office (866) 933-1414.

treylittlefield
08-20-2009, 08:03 AM
Depending on your amplifier you will not need the active x-over from the head unit.

One simple solution I recommend to many horn noobies is:

Imange Dynamics Q450.4 (75w x 4 @ 4ohm) $579.00 (retail)
CD1EMH (ferrite motor mini body) $329.00 (retail)
CX62v.2 (Chameleon 2 ohm 6.5" mid) $200.00 (retail)

Heres why...

The Q450.4 has good power and a flexible active crossover built-in.
The CD1E driver is 8 ohm and will see approx. 35-40w each (at 8 ohm)
The CX62v.2 is a 2 ohm mid bass driver and will receive approx. 150w each
This will give you a nice power spread between the horns and the mid driver.
Keep in mind that the CD1EMH is 109db efficient so they don't need a ton of power to get really loud.
If you are looking for a GREAT component set you would spend around $500 any way and (personally) I think horns sound better than tweeters. Just my opinion so horn haters back off).

You might want to look into a good eq, as it helps to tweak the horns. Also playing with the phase relative to the mid will help strengthen the sound stage and help shift the stage left or right (depending on your needs).

If you have indepth questions call us at the office (866) 933-1414.

would there be another amp i could use?? right now i have a 4 channel hifonics amp. how would i know if i could use it or not?? the amp says HPF FULL and LPF. and say i wanted a list of the mids and horns i could get what would be the best for the money and would keep up wit 4500 watts of subs?? and i wouldnt need any crossovers?? the amp would do the crossing over right?? or wouold i need to buy a processor?? and i have no clue what a good processor would be :(

Image Dynamics
08-20-2009, 01:00 PM
would there be another amp i could use?? right now i have a 4 channel hifonics amp. how would i know if i could use it or not?? the amp says HPF FULL and LPF. and say i wanted a list of the mids and horns i could get what would be the best for the money and would keep up wit 4500 watts of subs?? and i wouldnt need any crossovers?? the amp would do the crossing over right?? or wouold i need to buy a processor?? and i have no clue what a good processor would be :(

Yes, you can use your HiFonics amp. Use channel 1/2 for the horns and HPF @ 1200 Hz. Use channels 3/4 for the CX62v.2 and HPF them at 80Hz, let them roll off naturally on the top end. You are using the crossover in the amplifier to control the high pass filtering.

As for a list of horns and mids. I personally use our X69 (6x9" mid driver) primarily because I have the same sd as an 8". Many people here don't like 6x9's as they feel 6x9's "beam" too much. If you prefer 6.5" mid bass drivers, for obvious reasons I recommend our CX62v.2 because of the performance but realistically any good 2 ohm 6.5" speaker will do the job.

atsaubrey
08-20-2009, 01:10 PM
Sean and I use basically the same setup, Horns and the XS69 drivers. I will say his car gets down and dirty stupid loud and mine takes home SQ trophies. ;) Can't go wrong with this setup IMO

tez4life
08-20-2009, 01:12 PM
Thats what I would love to do in my car, a set of Ultra horns under the dash, and a set of XS69 in the kick panels. Would sound so nice :)

audiolife
08-20-2009, 03:17 PM
Depending on your amplifier you will not need the active x-over from the head unit.

One simple solution I recommend to many horn noobies is:

Imange Dynamics Q450.4 (75w x 4 @ 4ohm) $579.00 (retail)
CD1EMH (ferrite motor mini body) $329.00 (retail)
CX62v.2 (Chameleon 2 ohm 6.5" mid) $200.00 (retail)

Heres why...

The Q450.4 has good power and a flexible active crossover built-in.
The CD1E driver is 8 ohm and will see approx. 35-40w each (at 8 ohm)
The CX62v.2 is a 2 ohm mid bass driver and will receive approx. 150w each
This will give you a nice power spread between the horns and the mid driver.
Keep in mind that the CD1EMH is 109db efficient so they don't need a ton of power to get really loud.
If you are looking for a GREAT component set you would spend around $500 any way and (personally) I think horns sound better than tweeters. Just my opinion so horn haters back off).

You might want to look into a good eq, as it helps to tweak the horns. Also playing with the phase relative to the mid will help strengthen the sound stage and help shift the stage left or right (depending on your needs).

If you have indepth questions call us at the office (866) 933-1414.
Are those horns different than the older cd1e? There are too many places that show older pics that make me wonder if those are still the plastic motored older ones.

Horsemanwill
08-20-2009, 06:20 PM
yes the cd1ev3 is a completely different beast from the old cd1e horns

audiolife
08-20-2009, 06:29 PM
Have you messed with them? I had the older cd1e, older cd2 and cd3 ultras. where would you put those at performance wise?

treylittlefield
08-20-2009, 09:28 PM
Yes, you can use your HiFonics amp. Use channel 1/2 for the horns and HPF @ 1200 Hz. Use channels 3/4 for the CX62v.2 and HPF them at 80Hz, let them roll off naturally on the top end. You are using the crossover in the amplifier to control the high pass filtering.

As for a list of horns and mids. I personally use our X69 (6x9" mid driver) primarily because I have the same sd as an 8". Many people here don't like 6x9's as they feel 6x9's "beam" too much. If you prefer 6.5" mid bass drivers, for obvious reasons I recommend our CX62v.2 because of the performance but realistically any good 2 ohm 6.5" speaker will do the job.

i dont htink my amps HPF goes up that high... :( yeah i would stick to whatever would fit in my door..so what horns should i get?? and would i order these seperatly or do they come in a package like i've seen some of em?? and i'm sure i would need the mini bodies but havent seen them in the package deals..i guess i could just order everyhting seperatly...lol

ninjawhiteboy12
08-20-2009, 09:37 PM
knowing your budget would help people recommend drivers for you

Horsemanwill
08-20-2009, 10:11 PM
you get the horn motors and the bodies as a set.

ninjawhiteboy12
08-20-2009, 10:22 PM
or if you would like to get a different 1in driver with a 2 or 3 hole bolt patern you could just buy the horn bodies from ID direct for $180.
whatever you want to do

treylittlefield
08-20-2009, 10:54 PM
well i wanna get somethin thats plenty loud. i mean if i need to get the best ones then so be it. but if somethin in the middle does as good then yeah i'd get them. i know i'll prob need the mini bodies so somehtin that would fit them. i'm a noob when it comes to horns so i have no idea. lol

bass_lover1
08-20-2009, 11:23 PM
well i wanna get somethin thats plenty loud. i mean if i need to get the best ones then so be it. but if somethin in the middle does as good then yeah i'd get them. i know i'll prob need the mini bodies so somehtin that would fit them. i'm a noob when it comes to horns so i have no idea. lol

Have you checked the efficiency ratings on the compression drivers? They're all well over 100dB @ 1W/M. A measly 20 watts will make any of them scream.

I'm not trying to dispel you from using horns but I think you're gonna get in over your head pretty quickly with these. Horns take a lot of trial and error to get them sounding right. They don't require a lot of processing, but IMO I wouldn't even attempt horns without a nice 1/3 oct. dual band EQ.

ninjawhiteboy12
08-20-2009, 11:38 PM
yes they will get loud dont worry about that, one thing i have been wondering though is does the exit throught of the driver effect the performance? say two drivers have the same specs will the 2in ext and the 1.5 in exit perfom differently given that they are hooked up to the same horn with a different throat size

treylittlefield
08-20-2009, 11:39 PM
Have you checked the efficiency ratings on the compression drivers? They're all well over 100dB @ 1W/M. A measly 20 watts will make any of them scream.

I'm not trying to dispel you from using horns but I think you're gonna get in over your head pretty quickly with these. Horns take a lot of trial and error to get them sounding right. They don't require a lot of processing, but IMO I wouldn't even attempt horns without a nice 1/3 oct. dual band EQ.

thats fine bro ur jsut givin ur opinion :) well what would be a good eq and could you link me to it?? whats the trial and error part?? makin sure they are right and the phasing is right and what not??

treylittlefield
08-20-2009, 11:43 PM
here are the horns i was looking at..
http://www.imagedynamicsstore.com/idstore/image-dynamics-cd1pro-minihorn-ultra-compact-competition-p-59.html
would gettin a pair of ID mids be my best bet?? or would finding some different ones be best?? voice your opinion please :)

bass_lover1
08-20-2009, 11:49 PM
thats fine bro ur jsut givin ur opinion :) well what would be a good eq and could you link me to it?? whats the trial and error part?? makin sure they are right and the phasing is right and what not??

Off the top of my head an AudioControl DQS or DQT. Both would work, but the DQS offers 6 channels of EQ, the DQT only offers 2 channels, though you really only need the 2 channel to fiddle with the horns.

Horns are pretty picky about installation, as far as getting a good center image and good stage height. They need to be level in the vertical and horizontal axis, they also need to be even as far as distance to a single point. It isn't difficult, but I definitely wouldn't consider them a "set it and forget it" type driver. Definitely worth the work, but it can get a bit tricky.

Search on youtube for image dynamics, they have some good clips on horn basics.

atsaubrey
08-20-2009, 11:55 PM
It drives me mad, people will make fibergalss kicks, fibergalss A pillars and what not cause horns are too hard! WTF! 3 plumber straps and paying attention and you can eliminate all that work. A simple 2 way can and will sound as good as a three way set up. Here's the basics. Get the horns as deep under the dash as possible, get them as wide as possible, get them perfectly horizontal and vertical. THATS IT, how hard is it?

DEdwards
08-21-2009, 12:00 AM
It drives me mad, people will make fibergalss kicks, fibergalss A pillars and what not cause horns are too hard! WTF! 3 plumber straps and paying attention and you can eliminate all that work. A simple 2 way can and will sound as good as a three way set up. Here's the basics. Get the horns as deep under the dash as possible, get them as wide as possible, get them perfectly horizontal and vertical. THATS IT, how hard is it?


Aubrey,
I believe when people say they are hard I think they mean hard to tune.

atsaubrey
08-21-2009, 12:04 AM
Dave you can kiss my you know what! :D Hybrid Slybrid. :laugh:

T3mpest
08-21-2009, 12:07 AM
It drives me mad, people will make fibergalss kicks, fibergalss A pillars and what not cause horns are too hard! WTF! 3 plumber straps and paying attention and you can eliminate all that work. A simple 2 way can and will sound as good as a three way set up. Here's the basics. Get the horns as deep under the dash as possible, get them as wide as possible, get them perfectly horizontal and vertical. THATS IT, how hard is it?


x2. Its not like people get perfect imaging and stage height by just throwing a conventional speaker in a door and being done with it. No matter what placement is important.

DEdwards
08-21-2009, 12:08 AM
Dave you can kiss my you know what! :D Hybrid Slybrid. :laugh:


:furious: lol

treylittlefield
08-21-2009, 08:24 AM
Off the top of my head an AudioControl DQS or DQT. Both would work, but the DQS offers 6 channels of EQ, the DQT only offers 2 channels, though you really only need the 2 channel to fiddle with the horns.

Horns are pretty picky about installation, as far as getting a good center image and good stage height. They need to be level in the vertical and horizontal axis, they also need to be even as far as distance to a single point. It isn't difficult, but I definitely wouldn't consider them a "set it and forget it" type driver. Definitely worth the work, but it can get a bit tricky.

Search on youtube for image dynamics, they have some good clips on horn basics.

i've looked at some of those video's actually..lol and like one guy said i'm gonna make sure they are vertically and horizonally straight and get them the same depth under the dash and i shhould have a great starting point :) if i got an EQ would i set my amp and HU settings to thru where the EQ would be doing all the tuning?? and was the above choices that i made in my previous post sound like good choices??

atsaubrey
08-21-2009, 08:06 PM
here are the horns i was looking at..
http://www.imagedynamicsstore.com/idstore/image-dynamics-cd1pro-minihorn-ultra-compact-competition-p-59.html
would gettin a pair of ID mids be my best bet?? or would finding some different ones be best?? voice your opinion please :)

Nothing wrong with the ID mids, if you have the coin I would recommend the XS drivers. I always try to explain to people, do it right the first time. I do 100% understand that $$$$ can be an issue though. Always save up and get the best you can afford. If let's say you bought the Ultra horns and a set of XS mids you'd be set with nothing better on the market for many many years. I honestly believe the ID Ultras and XS mids offer some of the best sounding front stages available. Remember, your going to need an effcient mid to keep up with the horns and the XS drivers do just that. DO NOT be scared of the 5x7 or 6x9 drivers no matter what ANYONE tells you, I run the 6x9's in both my vehicles and love love love them.

tez4life
08-21-2009, 08:31 PM
Nothing wrong with the ID mids, if you have the coin I would recommend the XS drivers. I always try to explain to people, do it right the first time. I do 100% understand that $$$$ can be an issue though. Always save up and get the best you can afford. If let's say you bought the Ultra horns and a set of XS mids you'd be set with nothing better on the market for many many years. I honestly believe the ID Ultras and XS mids offer some of the best sounding front stages available. Remember, your going to need an effcient mid to keep up with the horns and the XS drivers do just that. DO NOT be scared of the 5x7 or 6x9 drivers no matter what ANYONE tells you, I run the 6x9's in both my vehicles and love love love them.



Let me ask you this Atsaubrey, if I went with the Ultra horns, would I be better with the XS69 in my kick panels or the XS57s in my doors in the stock locations? I though about just getting the XS57 comp set for the time being, and later add the Ultras and the processing to cross and tune them from the driver's seat?

Horsemanwill
08-21-2009, 09:16 PM
Let me ask you this Atsaubrey, if I went with the Ultra horns, would I be better with the XS69 in my kick panels or the XS57s in my doors in the stock locations? I though about just getting the XS57 comp set for the time being, and later add the Ultras and the processing to cross and tune them from the driver's seat?

i'd go for the x69 in the kicks because at least there you could aim them better then you could with the x57 in the doors.

Horsemanwill
08-21-2009, 09:18 PM
It drives me mad, people will make fibergalss kicks, fibergalss A pillars and what not cause horns are too hard! WTF! 3 plumber straps and paying attention and you can eliminate all that work. A simple 2 way can and will sound as good as a three way set up. Here's the basics. Get the horns as deep under the dash as possible, get them as wide as possible, get them perfectly horizontal and vertical. THATS IT, how hard is it?

x3 to get a "great sounding" system you have to spend time and $$$ on it. if you go over to the ID forum and read other's ppls comments on horns you'll see it's not really that hard. out of the box you get awesome imaging and staging. it may not be perfect but it's there.

Horsemanwill
08-21-2009, 09:20 PM
here are the horns i was looking at..
http://www.imagedynamicsstore.com/idstore/image-dynamics-cd1pro-minihorn-ultra-compact-competition-p-59.html
would gettin a pair of ID mids be my best bet?? or would finding some different ones be best?? voice your opinion please :)

trey like i said before that site is an old site. if your gonna get the horns get a set that is not discontinued. like the cd1ev3 or the ultra's. that site that your lookin at is woofersetc.com old id site. for now i'd just go to woofersetc.com and yes they may still list the cd1pro and the cd2comp but keep in mind that's old stock. and parts for repair may not be available since it's been discontinued.

treylittlefield
08-21-2009, 11:40 PM
trey like i said before that site is an old site. if your gonna get the horns get a set that is not discontinued. like the cd1ev3 or the ultra's. that site that your lookin at is woofersetc.com old id site. for now i'd just go to woofersetc.com and yes they may still list the cd1pro and the cd2comp but keep in mind that's old stock. and parts for repair may not be available since it's been discontinued.

ah i gotcha so for a updated website just go to woofersetc.com and jsut dotn pay attention to the cd1pro or the cd2comp right??

treylittlefield
08-21-2009, 11:42 PM
Nothing wrong with the ID mids, if you have the coin I would recommend the XS drivers. I always try to explain to people, do it right the first time. I do 100% understand that $$$$ can be an issue though. Always save up and get the best you can afford. If let's say you bought the Ultra horns and a set of XS mids you'd be set with nothing better on the market for many many years. I honestly believe the ID Ultras and XS mids offer some of the best sounding front stages available. Remember, your going to need an effcient mid to keep up with the horns and the XS drivers do just that. DO NOT be scared of the 5x7 or 6x9 drivers no matter what ANYONE tells you, I run the 6x9's in both my vehicles and love love love them.

well i was actually thinkin bout gettin the xs mids...i couldnt get anyhting but 6.5 or lower b/c thats what comes in the doors...or would it be better to try to build some kicks for 6x9's?? and just leave the dash and doors speakers with nothing in them??

ninjawhiteboy12
08-21-2009, 11:50 PM
you could do that or just mod your doors a little

Horsemanwill
08-21-2009, 11:51 PM
correct. i mean you can purchase them as they are great drivers but i myself would prefer a not discontinued product.

Horsemanwill
08-21-2009, 11:53 PM
the x65 mids are an excellent partner for the horns if that's all you have room for. kicks are always a better choice then factory door location as you can aim the speaker better from kicks.

Brian_smith06
08-21-2009, 11:54 PM
anything that can go wrong will go wrong. believe me im going through that right now :( (not horn related)

i agree with will though. def get something that is not discontinued

treylittlefield
08-22-2009, 01:01 AM
anything that can go wrong will go wrong. believe me im going through that right now :( (not horn related)

i agree with will though. def get something that is not discontinued

yeah i plan on getting some that aren't discontinued. lol thanks :)

treylittlefield
08-22-2009, 01:06 AM
http://www.woofersetc.com/p6818/Ultra-ProCompM--Image-Dynamics-Ultra-Competition-HLCD-MIni-Size-Horn.htm
so these would be good for horns?? why does it say two horn body sizes with unique flare design that achieves proper sound dispersion and frequency response?? does that mean it comes with two differnt bodies or what?

atsaubrey
08-22-2009, 01:14 AM
It says two different SIZES (full bodies and mini bodies) the flare design refers to the shape of the horn for car use.

treylittlefield
08-22-2009, 01:54 AM
It says two different SIZES (full bodies and mini bodies) the flare design refers to the shape of the horn for car use.

gotcha bro thanks :)

T3mpest
08-25-2009, 03:11 AM
Nothing wrong with the ID mids, if you have the coin I would recommend the XS drivers. I always try to explain to people, do it right the first time. I do 100% understand that $$$$ can be an issue though. Always save up and get the best you can afford. If let's say you bought the Ultra horns and a set of XS mids you'd be set with nothing better on the market for many many years. I honestly believe the ID Ultras and XS mids offer some of the best sounding front stages available. Remember, your going to need an effcient mid to keep up with the horns and the XS drivers do just that. DO NOT be scared of the 5x7 or 6x9 drivers no matter what ANYONE tells you, I run the 6x9's in both my vehicles and love love love them.

I'll second all of this. I've got a set of xs69s in my kick and they are absolutely killer midbasses. I knew the horns would be good but I couldn't really demo my mids without getting everything fabricated first. I was really scared I wasn't going to like the xs69's. Honestly they are absolutely killer. The drum tracks on some of my sq disks are absolutely silly! Timpani drums and snare hits at reference levels are scary lol. Very nice mids. Only real complaint is they are vey revealing, bad recordings and radio sound ehh most of the time. Not the drivers fault tho, just very nice speakers.

atsaubrey
08-25-2009, 02:03 PM
agreed, the XS69 has some of the best midbass I have ever heard. Like you said the attack from drum tracks is just friggin silly.

treylittlefield
08-25-2009, 09:07 PM
agreed, the XS69 has some of the best midbass I have ever heard. Like you said the attack from drum tracks is just friggin silly.

would it be possible to put them in the kicks though in a s10?? and sealed to what cu ft?? or would them bein free air be better??

T3mpest
08-25-2009, 11:06 PM
would it be possible to put them in the kicks though in a s10?? and sealed to what cu ft?? or would them bein free air be better??

They should be free-air. Vent into a panel on the vehicle.

Horsemanwill
08-25-2009, 11:10 PM
trey you should come over to the ID forum there matt and eric could give you any info you need and could even give u tips towards ur vehicle as i'm sure matt's probly played with the same type.

atsaubrey
08-26-2009, 12:23 AM
trey you should come over to the ID forum there matt and eric could give you any info you need and could even give u tips towards ur vehicle as i'm sure matt's probly played with the same type.

normally I would say ignore the kimchi eaters, but in this case I would agree with you coming over to the ID forum gods.

krouchchocolate
08-26-2009, 03:15 PM
Be careful with the XS69 tho. They are deep speakers. I had a hard time fitting them in my doors. =(

Horsemanwill
08-26-2009, 06:57 PM
the need 3.6" of depth on the x69

treylittlefield
08-26-2009, 11:35 PM
the need 3.6" of depth on the x69

i'm prob gonna stick wit the 6.5's and put them in the kicks....

Patrick Bateman
09-17-2009, 12:22 PM
what do you guys think about this horn driver?
http://www.usspeaker.com/bms%204540-1.htm
i wish there was a way to fit it into the ID horn bodies

are there any other 1in horns that you guys think would get loud, sound good, and have good frequency extension?

does anyone else make a horn body that is sorta like the ID in a 2in?

I tried half a dozen different compression drivers, and I've never found anything that can rival the BMS 4540ND in the car. I will be very very sad if I ever break one, because you can't get the ones I'm using in the US anymore. It is the ultimate car tweeter IMHO. (you can still get the 8ohm from US Speaker.)

I have some adapters arriving from Parts Express today. In the meantime, I made a couple.

One of them used an MCM waveguide which I chopped up to make an adapter. Here's a pic:

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_wUDOCViv9D0/SjU4XyXwv-I/AAAAAAAAAn0/wcTMNdhAKqE/s800/waveguide-614-7.jpg

It wasn't much work, took all of fifteen minutes. It's the same MCM waveguide that John Krutke users over at zaphaudio. I am too lazy to look up the part number. It's six dollars.

The other adapter simply uses a piece of 1.5" PVC pipe, with a hunk of modeling clay to secure the compression driver. You could use latex caulk too, but the modeling clay is easier to remove.

Whatever you do, don't use glue, too messy.

HTH

Patrick Bateman
09-17-2009, 12:26 PM
Unity Horn FTMFW

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diy-mobile-audio/60146-creating-perfect-soundstage-3.html#post761588

Good luck finding the space though.

They're not that big at all!

Here's the MCM waveguide used by John Krutke, installed in my car, with a baffle and a BMS 4540ND:

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_wUDOCViv9D0/SmIiCl-jr9I/AAAAAAAAA8A/jRqfcReNuFg/s800/misco-baffle-1.jpg

Here's the Unity waveguide made by yours truly, installed in my car, with a baffle and a BMS 4540ND:

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_wUDOCViv9D0/Sqp-wLvwuoI/AAAAAAAABHY/nNVn1N-tThk/s800/sep11-6.jpg

Painting it made a world of difference.

Patrick Bateman
09-17-2009, 12:40 PM
if you ad horns you are going to want some sort of a processor so a new active capable headunit is your best bet there. then you will want to find the horns you want, and a nice set of mids. feed them some decent power and they should sound pretty good.

there is more to it than that but you should get the idea

to properly run horns you are going to be dropping a pretty good penny, hence why i never have been able to run them :(

The designs that I've published are on the lunatic fringe, but if you want something that's modest and inexpensive, it's definitely possible. The reason that the USD and Image Dynamics horns require EQ is that the horn is a funky shape. If you use a simple waveguide, you won't need EQ.

Here's is the response of a BMS 4540ND on an elliptical OS waveguide, on the dash of a car, with no EQ.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_wUDOCViv9D0/Sqp-wGZ9TjI/AAAAAAAABHc/CKoQF32-Cq4/s800/sep11-7.jpg

The crossover that I am using for these, right now, is two resistors and a capacitor. That's it!

Because the response rises slowly and predictably, a single capacitor is all you need.

You could do it with an electronic crossover too, with shallow slopes.

This isn't possible with the USD and the Image Dynamics horns, because of the weird shape. In my car, they have a dip and a peak which needs EQ. Again, that wouldn't be there if they didn't use such strange dimensions. There's nothing they can do to fix that, short of EQ. In the pic below, the upper trace is a measurement of a commercial waveguide, in the same car.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_wUDOCViv9D0/Sqfg44XO4RI/AAAAAAAABGI/bPQCXGhlTUA/s800/usd-waveguide-polars-with-foam-n-roundover.jpg

Anyways, long story short, you could put together a nice set of waveguides for under $100 per side with an OS waveguide. Very very simple.

Patrick Bateman
09-17-2009, 12:51 PM
It drives me mad, people will make fibergalss kicks, fibergalss A pillars and what not cause horns are too hard! WTF! 3 plumber straps and paying attention and you can eliminate all that work. A simple 2 way can and will sound as good as a three way set up. Here's the basics. Get the horns as deep under the dash as possible, get them as wide as possible, get them perfectly horizontal and vertical. THATS IT, how hard is it?

If there was a decent amount of interest, I would be willing to throw together a waveguide that people could use instead of tweeters. Basically a waveguide which wouldn't require an equalizer, wouldn't require any fiberglass work, and would work with a conventional midrange.

Basically I would trade efficiency for bandwidth, and create something with an efficiency of around 100db and very very small. Smaller than the ones in my car.

My waveguides have an efficiency of about 105DB.

If you used the 18Sound HD125 you could get the cost under $300 a set. And that driver is a big step up from the nasty piezo drivers that were in cheap sets back in the day. Also, it doesn't use a titanium diaphragm. (to my ears, aluminum, beryllium and mylar sound sweeter than titanium.)

http://www.loudspeakersplus.com/images/HD120.jpg

Here's the specs:

http://www.loudspeakersplus.com/html/18sound_hd-hf.html

I think Faital sells this one too.

The only "gotcha" is that you'd have to cut the baffle to fit your car. My waveguides use the windshield and the dash to extend the curve, so if they don't fit in the corner, they don't work.

But you do that with a hand saw and some sandpaper. Piece-o-cake.

Image Dynamics
09-17-2009, 01:12 PM
i'm prob gonna stick wit the 6.5's and put them in the kicks....

Trey,

Use the X69, the difference in the midbass is incredible. I put a set in the kicks of a Scion Xa and I have a manual tranny (ie: clutch pedal) and hardly lost any foot room. I also have a set of CDULTRAMH's under the dash. The sound stage and imaging is incredible. I am using the Audio Control DQS for eq'ing.

Here are some links to pics of the build.

http://www.imagedynamicsusa.com/forum/index.php?app=gallery&module=images&section=viewimage&img=2248

http://www.imagedynamicsusa.com/forum/index.php?app=gallery&module=images&section=viewimage&img=2305

Here's a pic of the kicks finished:

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh193/groundzero_2008/100_1307.jpg

So 6x9 not so hard to SQUEEZE into a kickpanel.

ironchef b
09-17-2009, 02:10 PM
I'm pleasantly suprised that you're now a member here, patrick bateman. Why the move? I've read a few of your threads at diyma.com and i'm glad you're here to school us.

Patrick Bateman
09-20-2009, 09:44 PM
I'm pleasantly suprised that you're now a member here, patrick bateman. Why the move? I've read a few of your threads at diyma.com and i'm glad you're here to school us.

I'm on a crusade to get everyone to put waveguides in their cars ;)

ninjawhiteboy12
09-20-2009, 10:07 PM
interesting

firefighter1225
09-24-2009, 10:41 PM
I also was looking at doing a 3way front stage with horns and this is what I have lying around, let me know what you think. I've been reading a lot about horns and was going to try this as a winter project. Looking for some advice from horn users, I have all this equipment so I'm not looking to buy anything else besides an EQ.

1. USD Audio horn bodies w/ Selenium D220Ti drivers, 1200hz/12db fed with 31w per side.
2. 4-4" Polk Audio Mobile Monitors, 250-1200hz/24db/12db fed with 125 watts per side.
3. 2-8" Polk Audio DB's, 65/70-250/24db/24db fed with 175w per side.
4. For the subs I have 2-12" Type R's from 20-65/70/24db with 700 per side.

RAM_Designs
09-24-2009, 10:49 PM
One of the main points in using horns is the ability to run a 2-way with a beefier midbass, utilizing the lower crossover point of the horn to make it easy for an 8" woofer to entend high enough to mate with the horn without worrying that much about beaming. It seems like doing a 3-way with a horn is just defeating the purpose when you could use a 3-4" mid/fullrange to cover the 250-whatever range, keeping the vocals on one set of speakers. But to each his own, do whatever interests you and see if you like it.

Horsemanwill
09-24-2009, 11:24 PM
most ppl that add soemthing to a horn install add a super tweeter to try and cover the 20k range.