PDA

View Full Version : Got some specs but don't know what to do



Xprime4
07-14-2009, 11:07 AM
subs will be a pair of 12" Tc sounds made tc-9. All the specs/infos i have on these are here: http://www.subguts.com/TC_TC_9.html

Key Features

140 Newtons2/watt Motor Force
800 Watts Continuous Power
3" Anodized Copper Voice Coil
Single Dish Aluminum Cone
1" NBR Surround
145 Ounce Magnet Structure
18mm XMax
8.0" Diameter Suspension System
Cast Aluminum Frame

12" TC-9

Qts 0.354
Qes 0.384
Qms 4.46
Fs 27hz
Res 5.96Ω
Ls 4.35mH
Lp 8.26mH
Rp 10.88Ω
Dia 250mm
Vas 35.3l
mms 331g
cms 104um/N
bl 29.2T*m
Spl 84.7dB

Since Tc sounds is out, i tried contacting audiopulse technical service but i just learned that audipulse was out too.... That won't help me at all


I want to do a 30-32hz ported box but i have no idea on what volume to do it. I've seen suggestion between 1ft/cu per sub up to 2.5ft/cu sub. I have some trunk space and don't really care about it. So i just want the subs to perform the best sq wise/spl wise. I'm more 70sq/30spl.

I don't understand the modeling program and i don't know if they are reliable. Can I get the optimal box specs for these with the infos i have.

Otherwise, i can't contact Tl/audiopulse/whatever it will be next?

It will be powered by a bxi2006d at 1ohm, so 800-900 watt +/- per sub.

thanks

edit: i did a lot of research before buying these.. but no official info on box reccomandation

Xprime4
07-14-2009, 12:33 PM
5 easy bucks will be the reward ;)

Xprime4
07-14-2009, 06:51 PM
I was recommanded 2 to 2.25 ft/cu per sub. I would do 32hz tuning with around 12sq/ft of port area

how does that sound? too big?

mcsoul
07-14-2009, 07:02 PM
I was recommanded 2 to 2.25 ft/cu per sub. I would do 32hz tuning with around 12sq/ft of port area

how does that sound? too big?

144 square inches for 4.5 cubic feet does not sound right.

70-80 square inches would be reasonable, unless there is some tc-9 properties I'm unaware of.

Something like this from the free box sticky would work, it's a little light on the port area. It could be modified.

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/9161/44cubes32hz66sqin7et.png

Xprime4
07-14-2009, 07:13 PM
144 square inches for 4.5 cubic feet does not sound right.

70-80 square inches would be reasonable, unless there is some tc-9 properties I'm unaware of.

Something like this from the free box sticky would work, it's a little light on the port area. It could be modified.

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/9161/44cubes32hz66sqin7et.png

where does the 144 come from :eek: lol from my testing so far, i love the sound of smaller port area. that's why i want to stick to around 12sq/ft.

my biggest worries is really the airspace the sub need to perform the flattest

mcsoul
07-14-2009, 07:27 PM
Oh I see. That box I posted will work good then.

It does have a 4db peak at 34hz which starts at 50hz and goes flat at 30hz.
It looks pretty nice to me.

Unfortunately, group delay is off the charts at 30hz, but at that frequency it may
not make a big difference.

Xprime4
07-14-2009, 07:35 PM
Oh I see. That box I posted will work good then.

It does have a 4db peak at 34hz which starts at 50hz and goes flat at 30hz.
It looks pretty nice to me.

Unfortunately, group delay is off the charts at 30hz, but at that frequency it may
not make a big difference.

can you export the graph? i'm not quite sure i understand what you just gave me :laugh:

what i understand : 4db gain in the mid thirty that keep on till 50hz? the rest is flat? I saw group delay few times today, what does it mean?

mcsoul
07-14-2009, 07:46 PM
The graph is not bad, although it's not a typical sq graph.

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/5962/tc944at32hzlarge.png

group delay would sometimes be described as muddy bass. it is the difference
in milliseconds between the time the sound wave off the cone reaches your ear
vs the wave out of the port (as I understand it). The lower the frequency the less
it matters.

Xprime4
07-14-2009, 07:47 PM
The graph is not bad, although it's not a typical sq graph.

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/5962/tc944at32hzlarge.png

group delay would sometimes be described as muddy bass. it is the difference
in milliseconds between the time the sound wave off the cone reaches your ear
vs the wave out of the port (as I understand it). The lower the frequency the less
it matters.

what if i want a "typical sq graph" :cool:

Would building a little smaller box or more/less port area help alot? I want it the most sq oriented ... but i don't need it to be flat in the subsonics freq. Let says the flatest from 30-32hz

also give me your paypal, your help gotta be rewarded

mcsoul
07-14-2009, 07:54 PM
Port area will not help, box size and tuning will; but I'd go with recommended in this case.
That peak is pretty low in the freq range. I think these speakers are made to slam and sound
pretty good doing it, that it what the graph indicates to me.

Also, I'm no pro, so I don't charge.

Xprime4
07-14-2009, 07:58 PM
Port area will not help, box size and tuning will; but I'd go with recommended in this case.
That peak is pretty low in the freq range. I think these speakers are made to slam and sound
pretty good doing it, that it what the graph indicates to me.

There is no "recommanded" from tc or ap ... and since they're out... i probably won't have any feedback from those guys

Can you just try with a smaller enclosure size.. like 2ft/cu per sub. Just to see how the line would react

thanks for everything, your a pro and a gentleman ;)

mcsoul
07-14-2009, 08:03 PM
There is no "recommanded" from tc or ap ... and since they're out... i probably won't have any feedback from those guys

Can you just try with a smaller enclosure size.. like 2ft/cu per sub. Just to see how the line would react

thanks for everything, your a pro and a gentleman ;)

I could do that and I already have. The only problem is that I do not know TC sounds gotchas. I mean a flat box for 2 woofers is 1.6 cubes at 30hz, the port would displace more than the box lol. I could not in good conscience help build that box unless I was sure it was the right thing to do. The 4.4 at 30-32hz may not be sq, but at least I'm pretty darn sure it will impress :laugh:.

I think you need to find folks with tx-9 experience. Maybe dragnix would help.

Edit: 2 cubes per does not do much to flatten it compared to 2.2 cubes per sub.

And, your welcome, no problem.

mcsoul
07-14-2009, 09:37 PM
http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=251803&highlight=tc9

oops lol

For 2 subs, somewhere between 3@32hz and 4.6@23hz was recommended

I'm kinda liking 4 at 27, the middle one in light blue.
red is 3@32hz, green is 4.6@23hz; all on 2000w

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/1686/tc944at32hz2800w.png

Here's 4@27hz

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/466/4cubes27hz56sqinmd1.png

Xprime4
07-15-2009, 12:01 AM
http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=251803&highlight=tc9

oops lol

For 2 subs, somewhere between 3@32hz and 4.6@23hz was recommended

I'm kinda liking 4 at 27, the middle one in light blue.
red is 3@32hz, green is 4.6@23hz; all on 2000w

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/1686/tc944at32hz2800w.png

Here's 4@27hz

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/466/4cubes27hz56sqinmd1.png

I couldn't have asked for more

thanks a lot :D

It will be an hard decision. Blue line seems like a nice curve, but 27hz sounds pretty low. I hope it won't kill the output over 50hz too much

Xprime4
07-15-2009, 09:09 AM
I'll do 4ft at 28hz ( lol just a tad ove 27hz)

Still got one question for you Mister Mcsoul :)

I'll be using re l ported calculator for the volume and port dimension. I heard it's off 1-2hz in the tuning and maybe a little airspace wise. Any better enclosure calculator on the web?

I would have used the pre-made box, but i'll optimize my trunk space and when the time will come soon... i'll still have some space for the stroller ;)

mcsoul
07-15-2009, 10:46 AM
I'll do 4ft at 28hz ( lol just a tad ove 27hz)

Still got one question for you Mister Mcsoul :)

I'll be using re l ported calculator for the volume and port dimension. I heard it's off 1-2hz in the tuning and maybe a little airspace wise. Any better enclosure calculator on the web?

I would have used the pre-made box, but i'll optimize my trunk space and when the time will come soon... i'll still have some space for the stroller ;)

Congrats about the new addition coming (needing a stroller).

RE calc fails to account for port wood and woofer displacement.

This box is 4.0 cubes net at 27hz
Force RE calc to build this box with the dimensions on the picture. This is our control box. Make sure that port piece 2 is the right length.

Take note of what recalc says the net displacement and tuning is (it will be slightly different than 4@27hz).

Now modify the dimensions in recalc to where you like them but try to keep the port area 56sqin, net displacement (as it said for our control box), and tuning (as it said for our control box)the same (just very close) but with your new shape.

Xprime4
07-16-2009, 10:09 AM
thanks for everything again Mcsoul.


I was wondering also why do slot port need to be in "L" form? All my lastest box were build with a single port wall going inside the box. It never sounded akward and that helped me saving LOT of internal airspace.

is it bad or are we only doing them in L to get bigger port? any use to that?

mcsoul
07-16-2009, 12:07 PM
thanks for everything again Mcsoul.


I was wondering also why do slot port need to be in "L" form? All my lastest box were build with a single port wall going inside the box. It never sounded akward and that helped me saving LOT of internal airspace.

is it bad or are we only doing them in L to get bigger port? any use to that?

Port length is determined by three main factors, airspace - tuning frequency - port area.
Whether you need a L or not is determined by the length.

The larger the the airspace, the shorter a port will have to be at a given port area.
3.75 cubes at 30hz and 50sqin of port area requires a longer port to archive than
4 cubes at 30hz and 50sqin of port.

The lower the tuning frequency, the longer the port for a given airspace and port area. So 4 cubes at 30hz with 50sqin of port will need a longer port than 4 cubes at 34hz with 50 sqin of port.

And finally, a port for a give airspace at a given frequency will be LONGER as the port area INCREASES. Somewhat counter intuitive. A 4 cube box tuned to 30hz with 50sqin of port will require a shorter port length than a 4 cube box tuned to 30hz with 60sqin of port.

You need to run the box recalc makes by me too, it will allow port piece 2 to be to
long and get to close to the right wall, I like to see 1.5 to 2 times the port width
between the internal end of the port and the right wall in an L.

Xprime4
07-17-2009, 05:05 PM
ok here's what i'll be doing if everything is fine

http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo152/xprime4/Reboxtc-12-1.png?t=1247864303

Re calculator says I'm at 4.75 @ 29.6hz

Since it doesn't take in account sub displacement = 0.25 (estimated... no infos...tc out) service) x 2 = .5
+ bracing and port wall ( .25 estimate)

so i would be at around 4ft/cu with an tuning a little bit higher than what's written. Guessing around 31-32hz... which would be perfect for me

so is everything fine? can i start tommorow?

sub up port rear in hatchback btw ;)

mcsoul
07-17-2009, 05:24 PM
ok here's what i'll be doing if everything is fine

http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo152/xprime4/Reboxtc-12-1.png?t=1247864303

Re calculator says I'm at 4.75 @ 29.6hz

Since it doesn't take in account sub displacement = 0.25 (estimated... no infos...tc out) service) x 2 = .5
+ bracing and port wall ( .25 estimate)

so i would be at around 4ft/cu with an tuning a little bit higher than what's written. Guessing around 31-32hz... which would be perfect for me

so is everything fine? can i start tommorow?

sub up port rear in hatchback btw ;)


Does not look right, your tuning should say about 26.5 hz and your
ft3 should be 4.4 cubes.

mcsoul
07-17-2009, 05:57 PM
33w <<<decreased 1"
19h
19d

3" port width <<<decreased .25"

18" port 2

= 4.399 ft3
= 26.88hz fb

Xprime4
07-17-2009, 06:16 PM
33w <<<decreased 1"
19h
19d

3" port width <<<decreased .25"

18" port 2

= 4.399 ft3
= 26.88hz fb

you just lost me :(

you told me re calculator wasn't taking the port wall / sub displacement. The subs may not take .3 but more like .03? so lost

anyway i'm pretty firm on the external dimension unless i'm really too big. Otherwise, i would cut in the deepness.

and i finally want the tuning a tad higher than 30hz... i'm afraid i'll lost too much in the upper end if i go lower

Mcsoul, thanks you so much for everything again...

skmfkr
07-17-2009, 06:19 PM
try to talk to soundsplinter they are tc9 motors. but if it was me id do 4cubes tuned to 35hz

Xprime4
07-17-2009, 06:45 PM
try to talk to soundsplinter they are tc9 motors. but if it was me id do 4cubes tuned to 35hz


I did looked, but haven't found any model with the the same specs.

35hz sounds a bit high... is this where soundsplitter users put them?

mcsoul
07-17-2009, 06:57 PM
Subs are .15 each, you need recalc to show 4.4 net and tuned
to 26.5 hz for 4cubes actual and 28Hz.

What you have in the picture is 4.3 cubes net actual at about 31hz, it won't sound bad;
It's just not what you wanted.

Xprime4
07-17-2009, 07:06 PM
Subs are .15 each, you need recalc to show 4.4 net and tuned
to 26.5 hz for 4cubes actual and 28Hz.

What you have in the picture is 4.3 cubes net actual at about 31hz, it won't sound bad;
It's just not what you wanted.

ok i understand what i need to work on. But are you considering bracing displacement? I'll use atleast one mdf 2x4 between the subs for higher enclosure solidity. That might be only .05ft/cu tough....

I want my tuning at 30-31 hz. So falowing your logic i should look for around 28.5-29hz on re calc.

and around 4.4 before port wall /sub displacement

mcsoul
07-17-2009, 07:44 PM
yep, 4.45ish at 28-29hz

Xprime4
07-17-2009, 07:45 PM
yep, 4.45ish at 28-29hz

http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo152/xprime4/Reboxtc-12-2.png?t=1247874461

more like that
:rolleyes:


enough space so the second port wall won't be in the sub's way?

I'll make it as perfect as i can. with sanded port corner for sure

mcsoul
07-17-2009, 07:57 PM
Could ya add an inch to that p2 length? Just to get it under 29hz?

If not, it's still good.

Xprime4
07-17-2009, 08:11 PM
Could ya add an inch to that p2 length? Just to get it under 29hz?

If not, it's still good.

how could i refuse you that?:cool:


thank you so much for everything again mcsoul. I'll let you know how it sound when they get here probably next week