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View Full Version : not fiberglass .. but Carbon Fiber =D



vr4lyfe
09-30-2003, 05:06 PM
Alright, this is my first post here. I have been lurking around this forum for almost a week now reading .. I just recently been getting into car audio so I am a complete NUB as far as audio goes .. but I do have a little .. and i mean little .. experience in fiberglassing.

But i want to get started in carbon fiber and I have no idea where to start. I have used search engine and searched this forum, but nothing seems to come up as a how to for make'in cf parts.

I figure this is the best place for advice since most of you seem to be composite experts.

I assume that cf is just like fiberglass. There's cloth and there's resin, just a different type of cloth and resin? You would lay it the same as you would FG but just using different material?

If so anyone know a good place to get CF material from for cheap?

Thanks.

Bumpin03
10-01-2003, 03:36 PM
i have never heard of anybody using carbon fiber....thast why you are getting no responses and came up with nothing from a search.

Gauntlet
10-01-2003, 05:07 PM
www.selectproducts.com carries CF supplies....I think www.fiberglast.com does too.

What exactly are you trying to build?

318iSPOLKMoMo
10-01-2003, 06:06 PM
It will be easier if u cover the box with carbon fiber, rather than making it all of carbon fiber

paikiah
10-01-2003, 09:28 PM
you'll need an oven, plus a sealed vac chamber or something.. that's how a proper carbon fiber piece is made, I think.

Better to just get carbon fiber sticker sheets (authentic looking ones can be costly too)

vr4lyfe
10-01-2003, 11:00 PM
i see .. i just started glassin so i guess i dont see why no body uses cf .. its lighter and alot stronger .. more expensive .. yes .. but worht it for the cf look and all teh benefit i think .. just wondering why no one use them .. bad sound?

Gauntlet
10-02-2003, 04:34 PM
Unless you're building a new hood, there's really no need for it....if you're just building kick panels or a box or something of the like, fiberglass is all you need....

SPLThunder
10-02-2003, 06:37 PM
I do have a little experience in Carbon fiber.
it is just like fiberglass but you use carbon fiber cloth instead of fiberglassmatt. Yes is is stronger. That is why it is lighter. Less has to be used to make a firm enclosure. And yes it does cost more than kevlar or fiberglass.

As for making something have the carbon fiber design out of real carbon fiber, that is when you need the vac chamber and special equipment.

mattj
10-04-2003, 01:54 PM
I just bought 5 sheets of carbon fiber vinyl sticker.
:D

vr4lyfe
10-15-2003, 04:19 AM
Can i use the same resin for CF as fiberglass?

SPLThunder
10-15-2003, 12:19 PM
Can i use the same resin for CF as fiberglass?

yes 10 characters

ramos
10-15-2003, 12:27 PM
yes 10 characters


uhh, I wouldn't. You could but if you notice normal layup resin isn't clear at all. Guess what that is going to do to your expensive carbon fiber. It's going to turn it a wonderful yellow tinge. I would suggest using clear epoxy resin. When it dries it's crystal clear. But personally I would stay away from carbon fiber until you get a firm grasp on glassin'. It can be done at home without the special tools. But it's really exspensive if you goof :)

SPLThunder
10-15-2003, 12:34 PM
you are planning on bondo, sanding and painting the thing anyways arent you?? then the resin shouldnt matter

If you are going for the carbon fiber look and feel you are better off with that stick on crap.

ramos
10-15-2003, 12:59 PM
you are planning on bondo, sanding and painting the thing anyways arent you?? then the resin shouldnt matter

If you are going for the carbon fiber look and feel you are better off with that stick on crap.


I personally don't plan on using carbon fiber anywhere in the near future. But if I was. I sure as he!! wouldn't spend all the money on the carbon fiber then paint over it. I'll take the real deal c/f over stickers anyday. I have done many installs using carbon fiber. Just like everything else there are ways to make things easier. :)

vr4lyfe
10-15-2003, 10:06 PM
come on now .. who would paint over the CF if it was real CF? =)

Thanks for all your advices guys .. you guy are great .. imma be working with only FG to get experience for a while before i even think about working CF, but I was just wondering if they use the same resin.

Thanks for the replies.

nova
10-15-2003, 10:51 PM
you'll need an oven, plus a sealed vac chamber or something.. that's how a proper carbon fiber piece is made, I think.


Depening on what you are doing with the CF you don't need an oven or the ability to pull a vacuum. There are several different ways to do CF.

The easiest and least equipment intensive way is to just do a wet layup like you would with fiberglass using a standard weave CF mat. Depending on the resin you use you can cure it with a heat lamp or sometimes even at room temperature. You can use an oven if you have one but its not required. This is acceptable for anything that is not structural in nature. If it is to bear a load of any kind wet layup is not consistent enough to make a very structurally sound piece.

Another step up would be using a vacuum assisted resin injection, the commercial name of which is Skrimp. This is a little more equipment intensive but works great for larger pieces where you couldn't get the proper resin penetration using a wet layup. This can again be a room temp/ heat lamp cure or use an oven. This method is acceptable for some non-critical structural pieces.

For the most uniform pieces you can get pre-preg CF. This comes from the factory preimpregnated with resin. This is the defacto standard for structural pieces in applications such as aviation. The problem is that pre-preg requires refrigeration to keep the resin from hardening and generally requires high cure temps for it to cure properly. Essentially, you must have an oven to use pre-preg CF.

If you have money and I mean a lot of money, just about the best thing to cure CF in is a pressurized autoclave. You seal the CF in the mold, pull vacuum on it, and then pressurize the autoclave. This makes the CF conform to the mold very well and is used for parts that require high accuracy.

One thing that you do need to remember is that a raw CF composite without a gel coat or something of that nature will be brittle. CF will bend 5-10X more than steel before it breaks but it will shatter almost like glass if its hit hard enough.

I'm currently a student worker at the MSU Raspet Flight Research Lab. Thats where I learned what I know about CF composites. http://shrike.erc.msstate.edu/raspet/index.html

We do a lot of composite work for aviation applications. We have a 10' X 55' 300psi autoclave that we cook CF airplane wings in. The most recent project we had was the design, fabrication and development of steel wool composite molds to be used in production of CF fuselage parts for a VTOL aircraft for DuPont Aerospace.

musicc
10-19-2003, 10:07 AM
come on now .. who would paint over the CF if it was real CF? =)


Ferrai does for the Enzo car. The body panels of the car are CF all the way...

taylor
10-19-2003, 03:26 PM
actually one of the guys i know is doing a complete carbon fiber install in his avenger....i know it's very fussy too because, since there is no finish work on it like fiberglass you have to lay your pieces very carefully....making sure there is no flaws....you cant be sloppy like you can with glass.......ummm i have to talk to him more he knows everything form laying it to the finished product....

nismboy6986
10-20-2003, 09:47 PM
i was just about to say that about the enzo. but BMW left the roof on the M3 CSL IMHO the whole carbon fibre look is overrated.it looks cool if the piece would normally be like black abs plastic such as a cold air box, side mirrors,ect. but would look stupid as a dash kit(mainly most aftermarket kits ). if i had the $$$ and was putting a system in a performance car i would make a carbon fibre enclosure but unless i was already going with a black theme i would paint it. and my reason for having it would be for the weight savings

chrisw21_2000
10-26-2003, 07:50 PM
build the box with fiberglass. Then take carbon mat and trim to fit. Any seams ect will show. Then take a light mist of contact cement to glue it down. After that coat it with epoxy resin. A thin coat then flood coats after that. A little sanding and then clear coat with urethane automotive clear coat. Email me if u need more help chrisw21_2000@yahoo.com