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View Full Version : Please help! Polk MM6501 or Hertz ESK165 for the front?



Mokie
04-29-2009, 01:38 AM
Hi, for all the gurus out there, please help out a NOOB, yours truly.

I'm currently running a set of Polk MM6501 crossed @ 400Hz (passive hpf) with a pair of Kicker SSMB6 in the doors of my 350z roadster with a Boston G510 44 behind my seat. For the rear, I'm using a pair of Polk EX365 coaxial (passive hpf @ 600Hz). The fronts are powered by an earthquake 600w.4. The rears are powered by (please don't laugh) a Power Acoustic 2 channel 180w RMS amp and the sub is powered by a Polk Momo C500.1.

The problem is that with the top down on the hwy, something is missing:( So I picked up a set of Hertz ESK165 to replace the rear coaxial.

My 1st question is, should I put the ESKs up front and the MMs in the rear or the other way around? I mainly listen to classic rock and metal and I prefer not to impose my music on others when I'm driving on the streets, but I must be able to enjoy Eddie's Little Guitar or Jeff Beck's People Get Ready (solo version) @ 80mph.

My second question is, would a pair of ambient tweeters help with the SQ when the top is down or is it just impossible to expect high quality sound in a convertible?

Any expert advice will be greatly appreciated!

"that boy asad"
04-29-2009, 03:54 AM
I would keep the MM6501 in the front... why arn't you using the mids of the polk? I have heard the older momo's 6500, they compare to the hsk165!

what you need is a better amp on the fronts, provide it with a cleaner powered amp...

best would be to not have rear speakers... sell the esk165, kicker mids, polk coax, both the amps, and get a good/clean amp for the from mm's!

SRim23
04-29-2009, 04:15 AM
like stated above, are you using the tweets from the polk set and the kicker for your mid and not using the mid from the polk set at all?

if you are using the SSmb6 as your mid thats why you are "missing" so much. that speaker only plays 30hz-500hz. they really should only be used in a 3 way setup where you have a tweeter, midrange, and midbass. right now you are missing your midrange frequencies.

Im not sure what the earthquake does but I own the mmc6500 polk comps and they are rated 125rms but they didnt come alive until i gave them 150+ ( i say + becuase my birth sheet on my pdx150.4 says 165rms) been doing it safely for almost 2 years.

Mokie
04-29-2009, 04:28 AM
Thanks Asad. What would you recommend? Audison is out of my price range at the moment.

SRim23
04-29-2009, 04:32 AM
Thanks Asad. What would you recommend? Audison is out of my price range at the moment.

you didnt answer my question. if thats what you are doing thats the answer to your problem and you could save some cash.

Mokie
04-29-2009, 05:00 AM
SRim23, thanks for your reply. I'm using the entire MM set in the door (custom drilled holes) and the Kicker as Mid bass in the oem front door location. The sub is handling the frequencies below 100hz. The Kicker from ~100hz to 400hz, then the MM woofers above 400hz and the tweeters at whatever the MM crossovers are set at. The rears are for enhancement. The reason why I want separates in the back is because the coaxials are located directly behind the headrests of the seats and I was thinking of mounting the tweeters a few inches to the side so the headrests won't be blocking the higher frequencies. I then read somewhere that if the tweeters from the rear is too bright, it'll ruin the soundstage, which leads to my original question which set should I use for the front. I guess I really should be asking,"Which set should I be using for the back?"

Mokie
04-29-2009, 05:05 AM
you didnt answer my question. if thats what you are doing thats the answer to your problem and you could save some cash.

Sorry, I'm using the MM woofers for mid (above 400hz) and the Kicker for midbass (100hz to 400hz)

SRim23
04-29-2009, 05:25 AM
heres the thing about rear speakers. generally speaking if imaged properly you should only hear the fronts when sitting in the front and the rears when sitting in the rear. thats why alot of people on go with a front component set because frankly most of us could care less about the passengers in the back seat. haha

i can say this from personal experience. my girlfriend and i have the same car. ive got an 05 civic, hers an 04 but same car just different years. she had front and rear comps i only had fronts. the only thing her having rear fill did was make her highs a little harsh. i disconnected the rears one day without telling her and she actually told me it sounded better, then i told her what i did. so sitting in front you shouldnt notice the rear anyways, definitely not when you put the top down.

your best option, like mentioned, would to get more power for the fronts. then maybe upgrade from there if the polks arent to your liking.

"that boy asad"
04-29-2009, 02:50 PM
yeah... it would be smart to just get rid of your rear, the amps you have, and the kickers. Just keep the full polk mm set and get an amp that will make them what they are!

look into polk, diamond, sundown, ed, or even the audison srx amps... trust me once you put a clean amp sending at least 150 rms - you will love the polk's mm6501

MBrock4u
04-30-2009, 03:56 AM
Exactly! You give them polks some good juce, they will sound great.

Mokie
05-01-2009, 03:42 AM
Thanks dudes for your replies. I don't think the Earthquake amp is that bad. It's rms rated @ 130watts x4 in 4ohm and 220watts x4 in 2 ohm. It's pretty clean too... SNR 104db & THD is <0.016. It's cool to the touch after an hour of play and it has yet to fail me. I looked into Polk PA500.4 before I bought the amp and the Earthquake beats the Polk amp in power, SNR, THD and damping factor. Is the Polk really that much better in real life? The only advantage the Polk has over the other one is its class D vs. Earthquake's class AB.

Sorry for all these questions...since the few things I know about car audio, I pretty much read online, without real life experience. I'm hoping your expertise can save me some time, money & frustration.:emb:

KyleBechtold
05-01-2009, 03:49 AM
why did you xover them so high? i have my mids crossed at 80

Mokie
05-01-2009, 04:21 AM
I'm using the Kicker SSM6, a midbass driver w/ frequency range fr 40Hz to 500Hz. So I'm using a bandpass 100Hz hpf and 400Hz lpf for them. I was told by the guy who built the bandpass to also put a hpf on the Polk woofers so there's no crossed frequency. Was that a wrong move?:confused:

KyleBechtold
05-01-2009, 04:24 AM
oh ok.. didn't know you had the hpf at 100 i thought you said it was at 400hz.. disregard me.. im tired and need sleep

SRim23
05-01-2009, 04:44 AM
why did you xover them so high? i have my mids crossed at 80


Thanks dudes for your replies. I don't think the Earthquake amp is that bad. It's rms rated @ 130watts x4 in 4ohm and 220watts x4 in 2 ohm. It's pretty clean too... SNR 104db & THD is <0.016. It's cool to the touch after an hour of play and it has yet to fail me. I looked into Polk PA500.4 before I bought the amp and the Earthquake beats the Polk amp in power, SNR, THD and damping factor. Is the Polk really that much better in real life? The only advantage the Polk has over the other one is its class D vs. Earthquake's class AB.

Sorry for all these questions...since the few things I know about car audio, I pretty much read online, without real life experience. I'm hoping your expertise can save me some time, money & frustration.:emb:

if i recall the momo amp is made with those comps in mind. i think you can run them active off that amp without the passive xovers.

whether itll sound anybetter i dont know.

and dont be sorry, thats why were here.

SRim23
05-01-2009, 04:50 AM
if i recall the momo amp is made with those comps in mind. i think you can run them active off that amp without the passive xovers.

whether itll sound anybetter i dont know.

and dont be sorry, thats why were here.

nevermind... it was the old momo amps that had that option not the new ones.

okiedokie
05-01-2009, 06:18 PM
Hey Mokie , that earthquake amp will br fine for your needs.
I'm tring to understand what your'e really tring achieve!
1) i would replace those polk's out for those Hertz, which i think the Hertz can & will sound better then the lower end polk's.
2) deadening your doors & car will hep with acoustics in the car.
3) since you have so many toys to play with i would focus on your front stage.
4) it sounds like you are looking more for a three way combo.
5) if you can go active you'll have more control for what you'll looking.
so some guy built the bandpass for you???
can you take your system back to this guy for help???

"that boy asad"
05-01-2009, 11:18 PM
deadening is another key area...

Extreme SE-R
05-01-2009, 11:45 PM
Hey Mokie , that earthquake amp will br fine for your needs.
I'm tring to understand what your'e really tring achieve!
1) i would replace those polk's out for those Hertz, which i think the Hertz can & will sound better then the lower end polk's.
2) deadening your doors & car will hep with acoustics in the car.
3) since you have so many toys to play with i would focus on your front stage.
4) it sounds like you are looking more for a three way combo.
5) if you can go active you'll have more control for what you'll looking.
so some guy built the bandpass for you???
can you take your system back to this guy for help???

IDK about replacing the polks..i've had the MOMO MMC6500's for about 4yrs now...im powering then with my 1yr old Elemental Design Nine.5 amp the momos are getting about 130-140RMS@13.3V me and asad spent hrs after hrs comparing my momos vs his old Hi Energys they sound about the same..(conclusion) the hi-energy tweeter has more detail but the vocal on the momo's is a lil bit better. the tweeter is a bit harsh..but after some adjustments its not that bad. I wouldn't compare the ESk to the MM!

u got the newer mm6501.they should be even better. The Momo line was underrated cause of the rice momo grill! i guess audio magazines nvr took then seriously

Sound deadening..made a big difference on the mid bass. I used Dynomat extreme. now i have to go back and add more cause i was being cheap!!!..lol

after i powerd them with my nine.5 i realized how good the Momos were..i have it cut off at 40hz...cause they don't distort!!!! very smooth bass.

okiedokie
05-03-2009, 07:21 PM
I have some old polk momo's which i think the upper midrange is nice smooth when xovered right, but my problem is with lower end of the midrange-midbass, I use them active & passive & i couldn't find a way to stop them from breaking up below 80hz, I would them over higher to get them to sound right.
After playing with raw-home drivers now my ears can tell what distortion or break up in a cone sounds like
I would think that Hertz would has have a snappier upper mid that the polks lacks.

Mokie
05-04-2009, 01:34 PM
Thanks gents for sharing your knowledge. Dampening was the first thing I did when I bought the car, before I even thought about replacing the stock Bose system. Heat was coming through the floor for some reason so I pulled the interior and the door panel and went to home depot and bought a few rolls of these:

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100028603

It's much cheaper than Dynamat and works extremely well. The aluminum keeps the car cool too. I have nothing against dynamat, but it's just too expensive for just some rubber and I'd rather save the money for additional toys.

This is what I'm doing now: Leaving the MM/Kicker 3 way up front and the break in the ESK woofer in the rear and using the tweeters up front for image enhancement since they're really small and the sound is soft. I also got a Pioneer DEQ7600 and it made a huge difference. The thing that was missing previously was not the mids, but imaging. By using the seating position and fine tuning it with the balance and fader, I was able to feel like I'm in the middle of everything. Thank you all for helping me. You are the BEST!!!