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WorkingDawg
04-09-2009, 03:21 PM
First off, I wanted to say thank you to everyone for all of the information that I've found on this site. I'm new here, and have spent a good portion of my down time over the past week or so, just reading a lot of the various threads.

I'm looking to change out the front stage in my truck. My current front set-up, which came in the truck a few years ago when I bought it, includes a 6.5" component set in the doors, another 6.5" component set in the kick panels, and a 50x4 amp. The products that I was thinking about using to replace the old ones were two sets of RE Audio XXX 6.5" Components attached to a Sundown SAX-100.4D Amp. But, after reading some of the other threads it sounds like the dual component set ups are not recommended. What are the downfalls to this set-up? Do you have better recommendations? Any advice would be greatly appreciated?

rocky 59
04-09-2009, 03:23 PM
the downfall's- mis direction of waves,and hell of a job ahead of you as far as timing goes.

what are you looking for out of your front stage??? just loud? smooth? lots of bass?

WorkingDawg
04-09-2009, 03:42 PM
I'm looking for decent loud sound quality. I don't need to blast out the neighborhood but I want the clarity because of the music that I enjoy listening to. Here is some more specifics:

Vehicle: Regular Cab Silverado
Subs: 2 JL Audio 13tw5's running parallel off a JL Audio 1000/1v2 Amp
Music: Generally I listen to Progressive and Symphonic Metal, with the occasional relapse of the 80's/Early 90's Hairbands that I grew up with!

00poop6x
04-09-2009, 05:53 PM
First off, I wanted to say thank you to everyone for all of the information that I've found on this site. I'm new here, and have spent a good portion of my down time over the past week or so, just reading a lot of the various threads.

I'm looking to change out the front stage in my truck. My current front set-up, which came in the truck a few years ago when I bought it, includes a 6.5" component set in the doors, another 6.5" component set in the kick panels, and a 50x4 amp. The products that I was thinking about using to replace the old ones were two sets of RE Audio XXX 6.5" Components attached to a Sundown SAX-100.4D Amp. But, after reading some of the other threads it sounds like the dual component set ups are not recommended. What are the downfalls to this set-up? Do you have better recommendations? Any advice would be greatly appreciated?

I don't really see a problem with this in regards to your goals.

What are the drawbacks that some have filled your head with?

eharri3
04-09-2009, 06:40 PM
First off, I wanted to say thank you to everyone for all of the information that I've found on this site. I'm new here, and have spent a good portion of my down time over the past week or so, just reading a lot of the various threads.

I'm looking to change out the front stage in my truck. My current front set-up, which came in the truck a few years ago when I bought it, includes a 6.5" component set in the doors, another 6.5" component set in the kick panels, and a 50x4 amp. The products that I was thinking about using to replace the old ones were two sets of RE Audio XXX 6.5" Components attached to a Sundown SAX-100.4D Amp. But, after reading some of the other threads it sounds like the dual component set ups are not recommended. What are the downfalls to this set-up? Do you have better recommendations? Any advice would be greatly appreciated?

Personally I would go 3 way active and fit mids and tweeters on axis somewhere close to ear level then midbass in the doors and then just feed it lots of power. Not an expert but I imagine the other way can be done and get good quality too but it involves more tuning to achieve good imaging and staging, although it'l easily get you louder.

The way I look at it is when you add an extra set of speakers playing the same frequencies as the first placement and timing become all the more important to avoid frequencies cancelling eachother out or blurring a distinct sense of where each specific sound seems like its coming from in front of you. You may still have 'clear' music. But the most picky audiophiles don't just want clarity, they want a good sense of where each sound is originating from left to right and front to back. This is where having more than one driver playing each set of frequencies can get 'tricky', especially when they aren't positioned and aimed just right for your vehicle. Maybe if the like speakers were next to eachother that's one thing, once you put them in different locations it affects aspects of sound quality. Fine if you want more loudness to match the subs, not so fine if your focus is the quality of your front stage and the subs are just there to fill in the frequency that your fronts can't play (Which is by the way how alot of really serious SQ people will tell you they feel about subs.)

Sounds like a good setup to me if you want overall clarity and your substage is so insane you just want more loudness. Plenty of people with VERY loud SQL setups on here have one set of front components, one or two subs, and nothing else in the car and can get VERY loud and VERY clear.

For loud AND clear AND good imaging and staging I would take the money for two sets of whatever you were planning to buy, spend twice as much on one active 3 way set with a really high power handling capacity, feed it properly, then run a really relaxed gain setting and see how that works.

WorkingDawg
04-09-2009, 10:49 PM
Thank you all for the informative replies. But, after reading your advice and then doing some research in the threads about active versus passive, I don't think I'm quite ready or obtain enough knowledge to go to the active set-up yet.

In my situation, maybe it might be better to go with an in between of what you suggested and the XXXs? I came across a set of 3-Way Passives that seem to have alot of the qualities I'm looking for, but I haven't found too much information on them in here or other sites. They are called the Focal 165K3P UV, which include a set of 6.5" MidBass, another set of 6.5" Midrange, and a pair of tweeters.

I've read a lot of good feedback about the company. Does anyone have any other information about this particular set?

Will the Sundown amp still work on this, or will it be underpowered for this set-up? If so, what amp would you guys recommend?

adhumston
04-10-2009, 03:34 AM
Focal is one of the better brands that you can buy. If you're willing to spend that much though, they're are a lot of brands that would be just as good, or possibly better, depending on your tastes. Rainbow, Dynaudio, Morel, DLS, Hybrid Audio Technologies, Seas, CDT, Image Dynamics, etc... I'm sure I'm forgetting some, but you get the idea.

I definately agree that a good 3 way passive set is the way to go. However, do some research first. If you want a really strong midbass, a set using an 8" driver will be best (if you can fit it). You also have choice for midranges. Some sets use a 3" or 4" midrange, while others, like the Focals, use a 6.5" speaker. Since you already have the 6.5" kicks, it wouldn't be too much trouble to utilize something smaller (than 6.5" for midrange duties) if you choose to. Oh, and your amp will have absolutely no problems with whatever set you choose. Research and listen (if you can) before you spend your money, it'll pay off for you!

ramos
04-10-2009, 08:29 AM
I don't really see a problem with this in regards to your goals.

What are the drawbacks that some have filled your head with?



main drawback I see is tuning to get something that resembles a decent stage, using multiple drivers playing the same pass bands is a freaking nightmare. A little reading on point sourcing would help explain better :)

James Bang
04-10-2009, 12:10 PM
why do we call it a front stage?

I thought stages should be in front of you by default.

This car audio stuff is weird.

davidt487
04-10-2009, 12:20 PM
did you build the kick pods. if so how did it sound i was thinking of doing door pods but i would love to do a 3 way setup some time and ill have to build some kickpods

WorkingDawg
04-10-2009, 01:08 PM
did you build the kick pods. if so how did it sound i was thinking of doing door pods but i would love to do a 3 way setup some time and ill have to build some kickpods

No, I didn't build them. They came already installed in the truck when I bought it about 5 years ago. I'm not even sure that I explained their location right earlier. The truck was set-up with one set of components in the factory speaker location in the doors, and the other component set is located by your feet on either side. It looks like an aftermarket design, but the plastic shell on the pods match the Chevy plastic perfectly. The amps, subs and speakers were all soundstream products.

James Bang
04-10-2009, 01:15 PM
q-logic kicks?

http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/graphics/roadtest/civic/civic_kick.jpg

WorkingDawg
04-10-2009, 02:00 PM
Yeah, they pods look alot like the ones in the picture above. Except they were modified with kind of a grab-bar style chrome protector in the front, to stop the speakers from being inadvertently kicked.

Even though the previous owner didn't buy the best quality products, all of the installs were done extremely well. It's just taken me a while to get around to upgrading the car audio. I spent the spare time and money over the past few years, working on the performance and handling of the truck first.

WorkingDawg
04-10-2009, 02:18 PM
Has anyone listened to the Focal 165K3P UV, 3-way component set that I mentioned earlier? The only authorized dealer within a 200 mile radius of me that has it in stock, only has one set available it's at a pretty big discount. I'm not able to listen to them, and I guess they are now a discontinued model.

00poop6x
04-10-2009, 07:21 PM
main drawback I see is tuning to get something that resembles a decent stage, using multiple drivers playing the same pass bands is a freaking nightmare. A little reading on point sourcing would help explain better :)

I know quite a bit more than you may think :D

I'll repeat--Considering this guy's goals

I'm sure they're not concerned about staging but more volume and a focus on quality 'clarity' from the speakers themselves.

If they were asking about sound quality in regards to staging, imaging, depth...that's another realm. I think the goal portrayed here is 'clarity' and volume.

ramos
04-11-2009, 11:27 PM
I know quite a bit more than you may think :D

I'll repeat--Considering this guy's goals

I'm sure they're not concerned about staging but more volume and a focus on quality 'clarity' from the speakers themselves.

If they were asking about sound quality in regards to staging, imaging, depth...that's another realm. I think the goal portrayed here is 'clarity' and volume.


Sorry about that, I didn't mean to direct the point source reading towards you. :)

squeak9798
04-12-2009, 12:04 PM
I know quite a bit more than you may think :D

I'll repeat--Considering this guy's goals

I'm sure they're not concerned about staging but more volume and a focus on quality 'clarity' from the speakers themselves.

I think the goal portrayed here is 'clarity' and volume.


And the "clarity quality" from the multiple component systems will quite probably be greatly degraded by the frequency response and time arrival issues caused by the use of the multiple component sets.

But ofcourse, I'm sure you already took this into consideration aswell....... :rolleyes:

audiolife
04-12-2009, 01:12 PM
i say get horny and get some viva 6.5s into the kicks....or go super simple with a coax set of COMPONENTS in the kicks.

okiedokie
04-12-2009, 09:35 PM
viva???

audiolife
04-12-2009, 10:37 PM
vifa

rhodges27
04-12-2009, 10:44 PM
Has anyone listened to the Focal 165K3P UV, 3-way component set that I mentioned earlier? The only authorized dealer within a 200 mile radius of me that has it in stock, only has one set available it's at a pretty big discount. I'm not able to listen to them, and I guess they are now a discontinued model.


They sound is amazing and the price is high and if you can get a discount buy them you wont be sorry you did.

WorkingDawg
04-13-2009, 01:33 PM
I've decided to go with the Focal 3-way Components. But my questions now are about what amp should I use to power them? What do you recommend for wattage to get the best out of these without damaging them. The ratings for the components are: Nom Power 200W, Max Power 400W.