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spentfromnz
03-05-2009, 07:10 AM
Can't be done, right? Wrong, one word for you... eBay!

Background...
I was originally planning on putting a low budget SPL/SQ hybrid system in my new Accord wagon. My intention was to make it the best of both worlds, loudish with mediocre levels of SQ. So I figured a few cheap entry level subs, powered by some even cheaper Alpine knockoff amps would do okay. Well then I came to the realization that SQ is much more important for me, and that SPL is really more about showing off than anything. That and I'm kind of fond of my hearing. I'm a bassist and a drummer, so tight, punchy bass is what I'm seeking.

What I have so far...
HU is a Panasonic C5301W that was in the car when I brought it. It's CD/MP3, motorized, with 2.5v sub out and full range out. Better than the Sony GT260 I kept out of my old car, so that went on eBay. At this stage I'm already up $40.

Then I brought a sub amp, a Pioneer 7400M, that I got in used but brand new condition for $90. It's 400W mono at 2ohm. The sub I have decided on is the Alpine R Type in 10", just waiting for one to come on offer.

Which brings us to the comps. Even though I'm going SQ now I still don't want to spend a fortune on my system. I was looking at cost effective options like the RF P162S or Earthquake's VTEK series, just because I could get a good price on those two locally. But then neither of them really scream quality.

So I began searching through eBay for some high-class comps at decent prices. One problem, good quality speakers seem to retain most of their value at auction. Then I stumbled upon a couple of items that could potentially be an unbeatable bargain. Someone is selling a set of Infinity Perfect tweeters and crossovers minus the woofers for only $30. While at the same time another person is selling Infinity Kappa woofers and tweeters with no crossovers at $1 reserve. If I could just snag those two auctions I would be scoring myself a $250 set of speakers for around $50.

However there is another option, someone is selling some Poineer TSC171PRS woofers without the tweeters or crossovers, also at $1 reserve. Which normally run $300 for a full set. I'm wondering if they will work fine off the Infinity crossover, as I think they would definitely outperform the Kappa cones.

If I do get the two Infinity sets I would end up with 4 tweeters, which should also run fine if I hook them up to the crossover in parallel right?

DidUHearThat?
03-05-2009, 08:07 AM
So your planing on running 4 mismatched tweeters, crossovers and woofers off of H/U power.

What part of this is "SQ"?

Get one decent set of components (complete factory set) and run them off a cheap external amp (Profile). The more money you can spend on the componets, the more "SQ" you'll get.


And of course, the quality of the instalation will determine how good you can make those componets sound.

NightDrifter05
03-05-2009, 08:14 AM
I think someone is a little misinformed of what SQ really is. But then again SQ is subjective so it could be the best sounding system in the world to him once he get's it installed.

DidUHearThat?
03-05-2009, 08:38 AM
No. He'll do what most people do, install the wrong gear the wrong way, then change it around. Endlessly swapping out componets, trading crappy gear for other crappy gear, wasting tons of money along the way. Most drop out of car audio because they're tired of pouring time and money into it, and never really got to enjoy a decent system along the way.

Sorry, OP, we've seen this way too often.

Trust me. Bite the bullet, buy one decent set of entry level comps, and a basic stereo amp to power them. A decent wiring kit and get a hold of some dampening material and install them as best you can.


Try this:

One of these speakers:
$79 http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_7294_Phoenix+Gold+RSd+65cs+-RSd65cs-.html
$89 http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_11284_Alpine+SPS-600C.html
$109 http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_4284_Boston+Acoustics+S60.html
$120 http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_17714_JBL+GTO608C.html
$150 http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_5884_Boston+Acoustics+SX60.html

And this amp:
Profile Baja $37
BA400 (Refurbished)
400W BAJA 2 Channel Amplifier
http://www.profilecaraudio.com/amplifiers.htm


BTW, ebay ***** balls.

DidUHearThat?
03-05-2009, 08:44 AM
With 2 amps, you'll need both of these:

8 guage kit $16 http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KLM-K8
4 gauge kit $27 http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KLM-K4


Do as I've suggested above and you'll have a decent entry level set up.

cbrei1023
03-05-2009, 08:56 AM
Of the components DidUHearThat listed the Phoenix Golds are good for that price, I wasnt a fan of the tweeter though. IMO best bang for the bucks comes from the $110 Bostons.

And yeah, don't go through with your idea, get components and an amp...

dman4486
03-05-2009, 08:57 AM
Of the components DidUHearThat listed the Phoenix Golds are good for that price, I wasnt a fan of the tweeter though. IMO best bang for the bucks comes from the $110 Bostons.

And yeah, don't go through with your idea, get components and an amp...

what did you not like about the rsd tweeter specifically? and do the Bostons keep up with the rsd in midbass?

djman37
03-05-2009, 09:04 AM
If NZ stands for New Zealand, you might ask him what he can get down under.

cbrei1023
03-05-2009, 09:04 AM
One of my tweeters blew when I had them. I thought they were kind of harsh as well on the higher end, and lacking a bit on the lower end. Midbass will depend on the install. The midbass on the bostons though I feel sounded a bit more natural. The RSDs have good midbass in a proper install but... I dont know how to describe it... I always told my friends I thought it bad an aluminum or tin like sound to it, and they said they understood what I ment.

dman4486
03-05-2009, 09:06 AM
One of my tweeters blew when I had them. I thought they were kind of harsh as well on the higher end, and lacking a bit on the lower end. Midbass will depend on the install. The midbass on the bostons though I feel sounded a bit more natural. The RSDs have good midbass in a proper install but... I dont know how to describe it... I always told my friends I thought it bad an aluminum or tin like sound to it, and they said they understood what I ment.

thnx

James Bang
03-05-2009, 10:55 AM
"mediocre levels of SQ" :laugh:

eharri3
03-05-2009, 11:08 AM
I love when people talk SQ and they MAKE SURE to get proper amplification to the sub then run a cobbled together makeshift front stage off the head unit. He'll end up doing something to fry those fronts when he realizes his setup is all bass and he starts tweaking. Or else he'll end up driving around with his treble boosted to the maximum setting thinking how wonderful the distorted piercing highs sound.

To the OP: Most people who really care about SQ start with the front stage and worry about the sub less than anything else. They look at it as a tool to fill in frequencies that can't be accurately reproduced by other drivers and choose accordingly rather than concentrating most of their resources on a sub and sub amp and then cobbling together mismatched and underpowered component sets.

cbrei1023
03-05-2009, 11:09 AM
Get a Dayton HO 10" for your sub, you will be suprised!

cbrei1023
03-05-2009, 11:11 AM
I love when people talk SQ and they MAKE SURE to get proper amplification to the sub then run a cobbled together makeshift front stage off the head unit.

Didnt you know, most of the SQ comes from the sub!

James Bang
03-05-2009, 11:12 AM
when people mention, spl they mention deeebeeez along with it... But with SQ.. they just say SQ...

what is to SQ
as dBz is to SPL?

eharri3
03-05-2009, 11:23 AM
SQ to me means if I close my eyes and forget Im in my vehicle I could fool myself into thinking I could reach out and actually touch an instrument or a singer.

OR to be more objective I measure it specifically in relation to the exact length of the boner I get just by cranking my system near the max and playing good clean SQ music. I played jazz yesterday and scored a 8 out of 11 on the boner chart.

dman4486
03-05-2009, 11:32 AM
SQ to me means if I close my eyes and forget Im in my vehicle I could fool myself into thinking I could reach out and actually touch an instrument or a singer.

OR to be more objective I measure it specifically in relation to the exact length of the boner I get just by cranking my system near the max and playing good clean SQ music. I played jazz yesterday and scored a 8 out of 11 on the boner chart.

mm?

spentfromnz
03-05-2009, 12:57 PM
Please don't jump to conclusions, as you will find you are frequently wrong. Theyre not mismatched tweeters, they are 4 identical Infinity 1" silk domes, and of course I'm planning on amping the comps, probably with a Pioneer 3300T.

There can't be a great deal of variance between freq settings for most passive xover networks. So I don't foresee any problem with switching out the woofers. What could there possibly be about a tweeter that would make it a mismatch with any given woofer?

Dayton is not an option, nor is Profile, they don't sell here and I'm not about to pay postage from America. DJman was on the mark.

I'm thinking I might just buy both sets of woofers and see which sound best. Put the best up front and the others as rear fill off the HU, since I don't want any highs coming from behind me.

spentfromnz
03-05-2009, 01:14 PM
Oh yeah decent and entry level is oxymoronic by the way.

Will be testing the speakers out in situ before installing them. If the tweets don't sound good they don't go in. Wiring will be 2/4 gauge.

Ehari how can my system be all bass with 4 tweets 4 mids and 1 sub? Also I do know how to strike a proper balance when it comes to tweaking.

James Bang
03-05-2009, 02:21 PM
If I do get the two Infinity sets I would end up with 4 tweeters, which should also run fine if I hook them up to the crossover in parallel right?

oh no.

you say you know how to balance, but with passive xovers you won't have much capabilities to do so.

spentfromnz
03-06-2009, 12:36 AM
Correct there would be no way to adjust the tweeters independant of the front mids other than the inline 3db boosts on them. Perhaps a 4-ch amp would be a better choice?? Would need to butcher the passive xovers though to isolate each circuit, and that could get messy. Or worst comes to worst, just stick to two tweeters huh.

spentfromnz
03-06-2009, 12:43 AM
The 4 tweeter issue aside, what is so crazy about the idea of marrying an infinity crossover and tweeter with a Pioneer premium reference series midwoofer. Sure it is not commonly done, but that is just because manufacturers don't sell their component cones separately.

linvillegorge
03-06-2009, 12:43 AM
If your goal is SQ, why in the hell did you go with a Type R?! I know they get loud, but for SQ, they shouldn't make the list... ever.

SSS 18734
03-06-2009, 01:04 AM
In this thread alone, I've heard that SQ is subjective and that two amp kits are necessary to run two amps.

Stop it, CA.com!

OP,
You will not get anything near a true "SQ" setup with your kind of budget. Just look for solid entry-level equipment. A starting point could be a Pioneer component set, profile amplifiers, a JBL GTO subwoofer, and a good install.

DidUHearThat?
03-06-2009, 03:18 AM
and that two amp kits are necessary to run two amps.



Since that was me, I'll respond. It's the cheapest, and simplest way to get what he needs. Ideally would be a distro system, and 4 channel kit (which is what I have), but that would cost more in parts than just the two seperate kits. Two kits is easier for a noob to understand, make sure he has everything he needs and set up right.

DidUHearThat?
03-06-2009, 04:13 AM
Correct there would be no way to adjust the tweeters independant of the front mids other than the inline 3db boosts on them. Perhaps a 4-ch amp would be a better choice?? Would need to butcher the passive xovers though to isolate each circuit, and that could get messy. Or worst comes to worst, just stick to two tweeters huh.


The 4 tweeter issue aside, what is so crazy about the idea of marrying an infinity crossover and tweeter with a Pioneer premium reference series midwoofer. Sure it is not commonly done, but that is just because manufacturers don't sell their component cones separately.

This is what I was saying about using the wrong gear and setting it up wrong. No. It won't work, you won't like the way it sounds because it will sound awful, and you'll get frustrated and then spend more money to fix it. Eventually spending far more than just getting an entry level set up. Or like most people give up and never really get decent sound.

You can't swap around componets and crossovers like silverwear. A fork from one set, a spoon from another and a knife from a third. It will sound like ***. Really. Trust us. We've been thru this before. Matching componets requires alot of engineering design and trial and error. Even the best speaker companies design their systems, then set up and listen to it. Then take it apart, redesign, change it and start all over and repeat till they get it to sound right. When they finally get a good "system" they package it and sell it. You benefit from thier trail and error by buying the set they've already done alot of development with.
You might get lucky and have it sound okay, and you might win the lottery the first time you buy a ticket, but the odds aren't good. Everyone else's experience says it's not likely to happen.

No. Do not use 4 tweeters. Do not swap around crossovers and drivers. Buy a complete factory set of $70-$150 6 1/2" component speakers and a budget amp to power them.

If you can't afford that, buy decent 6 1/2" coaxials and a budget amp. Dont' build a frankenstein set off fleabay.

eharri3
03-06-2009, 09:22 AM
Different mids and tweets depending on design, construction materials, and quality will play some frequencies better than others. A carefully designed active or prepackaged passive setup pairs a mid designed to play a certain range with a tweeter designed to play a certain range then crosses them over appropriately to minimize huge dips and peaks and keep a fairly flat frequency response. Once you start mixing and matching without going active if you don't know what you're looking at it becomes hit or miss. May sound like ***, may sound OK if you luck out.

spentfromnz
03-06-2009, 09:23 AM
Wow man you have a very negative outlook on things. Have you heard a PRS cone and Infinity tweeter playing together? No you haven't, you may know a bit about car audio but you can't say with such certainty that it will sound crap. Plus as I said if it doesn't work I will sell them again, it's not frustrating, I love shopping for bargains on the auction sites. So it will not cost a fortune because I will recoup money on anything I don't end up using. And I could end up with a mint sounding system at less than entry level prices.

I was considering getting a 4 and an 8 kit at first as you suggest, but I think the Voodoo VDK2 dual amp 2/4 AWG digital kit will better fit my needs and allow for a bit of expansion should I want to.

http://www.12voltnet.com/photos/VDK2.jpg

eharri3
03-06-2009, 09:28 AM
No I haven't. Don't need to, Im not saying it will **** or it'll be great but it's a crapshoot and I wouldn't try it without knowing what the specific set of mids and tweets were designed to do and having an active crossover. You could very well find that your transitioning from mid to tweet at a spot that that's way too low for the tweeter or too high for the mid and there's really not much you can do about it with passive crossovers.

spentfromnz
03-06-2009, 09:34 AM
That or I will get a simple 2 and a 4 kit, and a Lazar opti digtal fuse for my dash. It has current reading in addition to the volts, which would be very helpful.

To test the response of the system to see if I am getting the right curves I will us a studio mic and freely available audio analysis software.

But really it's not meant to be a competition system, so I doesn't matter if it's not perfect SQ. Hence R type instead of X type.

eharri3
03-06-2009, 09:50 AM
Never understood that mentality.

"I want it to sound as good as possible"
but then...
"Well it's not a competition car or anything so the system only needs to sound 'decent', not really great or anything."

Why on earth wouldn't anybody want to get the best sound possible for whatever the money they're spending? Why spend money and work on your vehicle with the goal of 'OK but not TOO good of a sound' in mind?

Not sure what you're looking for. You came here asking if this would sound fine, people are telling you no, and you aren't acknowledging their logic. Were you hoping people would just tell you yes because you're already dead set on doing this and just wanted possitive reinforcement or were you actually looking for honest opinions?

If this is an experiment you want to try just to try that's fine but if you're looking for a good long term setup for your vehicle don't expect people to agree that picking a tweeter, a mid, and a crossover at random is the way to go.

spentfromnz
03-06-2009, 09:55 AM
Checked the specs...
The crossover point on the passives that come the the PRS is set at 2k, but the cones actually have a flat response all the way up to 20k. However the tweeters that come with them are only really effective past 4k, so running stock setup there is a dip in response between 2k and 4k, thanks to the crossovers cutting the woofers out a bit shy of where the tweeters can properly take over.

The Infinity Prefect crossovers have the point set at 3.5k, so they will run the PRS cones a little past what they would normally put out. This should fill the shortfall in the 2-4k band nicely.

spentfromnz
03-06-2009, 09:58 AM
Bro you have to draw the line somewhere. If I built a system that sounded "as good as possible" it would cost thousands of dollars, thats why I'm building a system that's as good as possible on my budget. It's going to sound mint as compared to anything I have owned before or anything any of my friends have heard, and so that is all that matters.

SSS 18734
03-06-2009, 10:04 AM
Checked the specs...
The crossover point on the passives that come the the PRS is set at 2k, but the cones actually have a flat response all the way up to 20k. However the tweeters that come with them are only really effective past 4k, so running stock setup there is a dip in response between 2k and 4k, thanks to the crossovers cutting the woofers out a bit shy of where the tweeters can properly take over.

The Infinity Prefect crossovers have the point set at 3.5k, so they will run the PRS cones a little past what they would normally put out. This should fill the shortfall in the 2-4k band nicely.

So what you're saying is that your PRS mids are essentially the perfect loudspeakers? No, your PRS mids will not play flat all the way to 20khz. They will begin to lose linearity after 2khz (and to a lesser extent, in their target frequency range) and have some nasty breakup between that point and 3.5khz; otherwise, the manufacturer wouldn't have designed them with such a low crossover point.

My guess is that anything you put together will sound "decent" or "mint" because you really don't know what you're dealing with, nor have the experience to properly judge the setups you've heard.

eharri3
03-06-2009, 10:07 AM
Bro you have to draw the line somewhere. If I built a system that sounded "as good as possible" it would cost thousands of dollars, thats why I'm building a system that's as good as possible on my budget. It's going to sound mint as compared to anything I have owned before or anything any of my friends have heard, and so that is all that matters.

Never said everybody should go top of the line, I said best for the money. But sometimes when people ask for advice and see their ideas get crapped on here rather than being receptive to good advice they stick to what they're planning and say 'That's OK if it doesn't sound great. I don't need 'great sound', I'm not competing. I'm only striving for mediocre anyway.

80$ front components off a decent amp and nothing in the rear would probably sound better than what you're planning.

spentfromnz
03-06-2009, 10:33 AM
I could not possibly comment on why Pioneer went with the 2k point given the performance of the bundled tweeters, seems strange to me.

No loud speaker is perfect in reality, but as far as cones go the PRS is pretty dam good. The Perfect cones start dropping off at 3k, not sure about the Kappa ones because there are no charts for them. The PRS ones go well past that. They are called Premium Reference Series for a reason.

And you say you advocate best value for money, but continue to suggest entry level gear. When top notch used gear is priced at the same price as new entry level gear it is clear to me which I would rather take.

eharri3
03-06-2009, 10:34 AM
OK sounds good. Do it.

James Bang
03-06-2009, 03:14 PM
So what you're saying is that your PRS mids are essentially the perfect loudspeakers? No, your PRS mids will not play flat all the way to 20khz. They will begin to lose linearity after 2khz (and to a lesser extent, in their target frequency range) and have some nasty breakup between that point and 3.5khz; otherwise, the manufacturer wouldn't have designed them with such a low crossover point.

My guess is that anything you put together will sound "decent" or "mint" because you really don't know what you're dealing with, nor have the experience to properly judge the setups you've heard.

indeedaroonie.

this guy isn't hear for advice. let him do wtf he wants

JimJ
03-06-2009, 04:07 PM
"I want it to sound as good as possible"
but then...
"Well it's not a competition car or anything so the system only needs to sound 'decent', not really great or anything."

Why on earth wouldn't anybody want to get the best sound possible for whatever the money they're spending? Why spend money and work on your vehicle with the goal of 'OK but not TOO good of a sound' in mind?

Indeed.

It seems like there's a mentality that whatever works for a competition vehicle doesn't work for everyday use, as well - I guess I could see that if your listening consists mostly of Jeezy, but for most everything else it works just fine :D

spentfromnz
03-07-2009, 08:11 AM
Yeah, well put Jim. Not sure If I mentioned I wasn't building for comp so much as every day running about. Would definitely enter it in a comp if they have one near by, just to see how it places.

Anyway I just won the auction for the PRS cones, only cost $18 delivered, so I'm stoked with that. I was watching some vids on YouTube, Pioneer had a build-off contest in 2008 where they invited 22 top car audio dealerships to submit entries. Every one of them had the PRS cones up front. Strangely enough one of the cars entered was a Honda Accord with a stealth install exactly like I was planning on doing with mine.

DEdwards
03-07-2009, 08:26 AM
http://www.faithmouse.com/sarah_palin_pancakes.jpg

ragnaroksq
03-07-2009, 08:43 AM
Never understood that mentality.

Why on earth wouldn't anybody want to get the best sound possible for whatever the money they're spending? Why spend money and work on your vehicle with the goal of 'OK but not TOO good of a sound' in mind?



Preach it bro.

DEdwards
03-07-2009, 08:44 AM
and spend unGodly amounts of money on subwoofers that play 1-2 octaves at the most.....oh well to each is own I guess...

bigbangtheory
03-07-2009, 01:52 PM
I don't get coming to a forum and asking questions or opinions on stuff all to get defensive about it.

My input would go for nothing, so I will stay out of it.

ramos
03-09-2009, 08:04 AM
Oh yeah decent and entry level is oxymoronic by the way.



I disagree with that statement. I am using entry level components, doing pretty good with them I think :)

headless
03-09-2009, 08:59 AM
With a few changes to your configuration, you could easily get a decent sounding system - those pioneer woofers aren't bad - but you are dead set on your ***-backwards method of mating a bunch of different speakers together with crossover networks that they weren't made to use. At the very least you need to run active if you are going to be using drivers that weren't designed to run together with a specific passive x-over. What you described is not going to be an SQ system - especially not with a ****ing type R to mate with them.

The fact that you tried to say that the pioneer mids have a flat response to 20k indicates just how little you actually know about this. If you don't want to listen to the advice of MULTIPLE people who do actually know, then kindly don't ask for it in the first place.

spentfromnz
03-10-2009, 12:54 PM
Aside from it being way cheaper ($300 for a comp set vs $18 for the woofers off ebay), I just think setting the crossovers at 2k was a sketchy move on Pioneer's part. I have been looking at specs on a lot of passives, and the common mark seems to be 3 to 3.5k. My guess is Pioneer wanted to move the image further forward, in which case they should have packaged a wider range tweeter with their PRS set.

If people want to weight in with actual solid facts to back up their opinions then of course I will listen to what they have to say. But to say "that's going to sound terrible because they weren't made to go together", well that's a pretty weak argument. Peanut butter and jelly wasn't designed to go together but people still like it. There's hundreds of other comparisons I could draw but you get what I'm driving at, just because they weren't designed for a specific purpose doesn't mean they can't be used that way.

Also, why is a sealed 10" Alpine R-type no good for SQ? Again this comes down to actually explaining yourself instead of just making general statements. It is one of the few 10" subs available to me that can handle the 400W the amp is putting out. Other than that I would probably have to go with an overpriced Kicker CVR or a fugly JBL P1020e.

So yeah in short I do want to hear what you have to say, as long as it's not baseless speculation.

Fiercetimbo17
03-10-2009, 01:00 PM
and spend unGodly amounts of money on subwoofers that play 1-2 octaves at the most.....oh well to each is own I guess...

I completely agree, if there is somewhere to cheap out it would be the sub and amp, you can upgrade later.

Your sub will play less than 1% of the music you listen to, you decide where the money is best spent.

DidUHearThat?
03-10-2009, 05:48 PM
Aside from it being way cheaper ($300 for a comp set vs $18 for the woofers off ebay), I just think setting the crossovers at 2k was a sketchy move on Pioneer's part. I have been looking at specs on a lot of passives, and the common mark seems to be 3 to 3.5k. My guess is Pioneer wanted to move the image further forward, in which case they should have packaged a wider range tweeter with their PRS set.
If people want to weight in with actual solid facts to back up their opinions then of course I will listen to what they have to say. But to say "that's going to sound terrible because they weren't made to go together", well that's a pretty weak argument. Peanut butter and jelly wasn't designed to go together but people still like it. There's hundreds of other comparisons I could draw but you get what I'm driving at, just because they weren't designed for a specific purpose doesn't mean they can't be used that way.

Also, why is a sealed 10" Alpine R-type no good for SQ? Again this comes down to actually explaining yourself instead of just making general statements. It is one of the few 10" subs available to me that can handle the 400W the amp is putting out. Other than that I would probably have to go with an overpriced Kicker CVR or a fugly JBL P1020e.

So yeah in short I do want to hear what you have to say, as long as it's not baseless speculation.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

mcsoul
03-10-2009, 06:12 PM
SQ means everything to someone who does not know what SQ means.
That's just odd.

DidUHearThat?
03-10-2009, 06:25 PM
This story seems related to this thread and the OP:



`Fight club' bouts probed at home for the retarded '
CORPUS CHRISTI, Texas (AP) - Seven employees at a state-run home for the mentally disabled have been suspended for allegedly staging a "fight club" among residents.
Corpus Christi Police Captain Tim Wilson says the fight clubs were uncovered when someone gave an off-duty police officer a cell phone containing videos of fights at the Corpus Christi State School.

Wilson says the videos show mentally disabled adult clients punching, shoving, and striking each other while the employees watch.


Wilson calls the abuse "appalling." He says police expect to file charges against several employees by the end of the week.

The school opened in 1970 and is home to about 360 people, according to the Web site of the state Department of Aging and Disability Services.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D96RA7F82&show_article=1

Zellner
03-11-2009, 12:57 AM
You say we cant just state that something will sound bad but why? Theres no need in explaining why a type r has bad sq....coming from experienced people who have tried all these things before you. My guess is you would be totally lost if it were explained to you why...so just accept it as this. The type r is not made for and does not produce adequet SQ, it is an SPL subwoofer. Its simple... thats all you need to know, it doesn't matter why, that's just the facts.

spentfromnz
03-11-2009, 07:56 AM
"R-types are no good for SQ because they are designed for SPL" would have been all the explanation I needed. If only someone had said that from the get go. It was actually someone from on here that reccommended the R-Type in the first place.

Ok how about the Soundstream Reference Series RFW-10 instead? Theyre good for SQ yeah? and I just found a great deal on one.

spentfromnz
03-11-2009, 07:59 AM
Alpine apparently doesn't think so though, here's how they describe the sub on their website...

Alpine Type-R subwoofers play loud, clean, and long. The Type-R’s are designed from HAMR Engineering, Alpine's exclusive subwoofer solution for cooler operation, longer life, and tight, accurate bass. The main philosophy behind HAMR Engineering is to ensure the ultimate sound quality and performance through the use of highly advanced materials and patented design technologies such as magnetic, structural finite element analysis, and a 3rd generation CRC motor structure. The Type-R subwoofer features an ultra long linear excursion for dynamic, realistic sound. Exclusive cooling technologies contribute to huge power handling capabilities. You can depend on the Type-R to compliment your system with deep, accurate bass.

headless
03-11-2009, 08:18 AM
Of course alpine doesn't ****ing write down that their type r sounds like *** but gets pretty loud. That's why you come to ****ing forums and ask about it - so you can hear about how speakers really perform rather than read the marketing department's description of their 'OMGZ SO AWESOME' subwoofer.

"The Type-R subwoofer features an ultra long linear excursion for dynamic, realistic sound." = SPL woofer being talked up as an SQ woofer

cbrei1023
03-11-2009, 09:26 AM
I said it before and I'll say it again. Dayton HO 10. monster of a 10. Gotta build the right box though.

1.5 @ 32hz was recomended to me and it sounds fantastic. Tight and accurate. Can get loud as well.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-462

JayRich
03-11-2009, 11:11 AM
SMDH @ this thread. This has to be one of the most frustrating threads to read. I guess the facts that are sought are those written on paper rather than from numerous people have have listened to the equipment first hand and are all repeating themselves

spentfromnz
03-11-2009, 11:50 AM
Ok I just brought a RFW-10 sub from a parallel importer for $80 (RRP on them here is $240). I would have had to pay $140 for an R-type, essentially I have saved $60 on that, so here is what I'm going to do. I'm going to buy a mid-priced component set and try it out as stock and also with the PRS drivers swapped in, so I can compare the two setups. If the PRS drivers do sound better they stay and the other woofers go in the back as rear fill off the HU. Otherwise visa versa.

The amp I am looking at using for the fronts is the Soundstream SPA-1002, aka Power Acoustik PS2-420 (same thing different badge).