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View Full Version : ID Horns or BA 6.53



dcmcki
01-15-2009, 06:57 PM
I currently have a NIB set of Boston Acoustic 6.53 three-way set-up sitting in the garage along with a Digital Designs S4 staggered output amp. I am contemplating going to an active 2-way with some ID Horns either Ultras or CD2's with either a couple of 8's or two pairs of oem 6.5's. I've always run BA pros 6.5's and got lucky and found the 6.53's cheap. Never done either before --- 3-way or active 2-way. Waiting on new car for install so I am in no rush. Either way needs to keep up with a pair of DD9510's with 4kw or so. Any suggestions?? Please discuss.........

Horsemanwill
01-15-2009, 10:43 PM
either of those horns will have no problem keeping up with your subs. i've never heard boston before but they've always been a good line. i guess it's more up to the type of car and how much work your willing to do. i myself run a set of the ultra full bodies.

shaneb
01-15-2009, 10:44 PM
I have horns, not ultras, but i would never go 3 way after hearing horns.

dcmcki
01-15-2009, 11:32 PM
First of all thanks for the responses......secondly......what type of equalization are you using with your horns. What little research I have done leads me to believe that alot of tuning may be required. Is there any truth to this???? What is the best suggestion for this application??

Louisiana_CRX
01-15-2009, 11:35 PM
Id run less way less than 100x2 on the horns...a clean 50x2 is probably too much

atsaubrey
01-15-2009, 11:36 PM
the lot of eq thing is bulpucky. they can sound good outta the box. a simple 7 band eq can get them to sound dang nice. My self run 10 bands on mine but then again I am working on winning world finals and I mean really working on winning.

atsaubrey
01-15-2009, 11:37 PM
Id run less way less than 100x2 on the horns...a clean 50x2 is probably too much


50wrms is still too much even if you have 4kw on the subs, 50wrms will rip your face off on horns.

shaneb
01-15-2009, 11:38 PM
I have 3 bands of equalization from my deck, that i don't even sue on my horns, they sound great out of the box.
I'm local to you

Louisiana_CRX
01-15-2009, 11:38 PM
I'm gonna run a Lightning Audio S4.300 on my front stage in the Saleen...90x2 on the 8" old school MB Quart midbass and 30x2 on the ID mini horns....It should give a nice front stage.....

shaneb
01-15-2009, 11:39 PM
I'm gonna run a Lightning Audio S4.300 on my front stage in the Saleen...90x2 on the 8" old school MB Quart midbass and 30x2 on the ID mini horns....It should give a nice front stage.....

unti i get my new amps,
I am running horns off deck power, about 9 watts to each, they keep up or out do my 150wrms on each mid and 300 on each sub.

Louisiana_CRX
01-15-2009, 11:44 PM
this is what I have for my front stage...I need to install it .....

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m24/Louisiana_CRX/My%20Rides/06%20Saleen%20Mustang/SaleenFrontStage.jpg

shaneb
01-15-2009, 11:47 PM
this is what I have for my front stage...I need to install it .....

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m24/Louisiana_CRX/My%20Rides/06%20Saleen%20Mustang/SaleenFrontStage.jpg

:thumbupw:

mlstrass
01-15-2009, 11:51 PM
I ran a set of $1.47 PE horns and got them to sound pretty **** good with some minor EQ work. They only got a little harsh when played VERY loud. I think you'll be fine with a nice set of ID horns...

RogerKline
01-16-2009, 12:11 AM
this is what I have for my front stage...I need to install it .....

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m24/Louisiana_CRX/My%20Rides/06%20Saleen%20Mustang/SaleenFrontStage.jpg

At some point, swap out those piezos for compression drivers. It will put a smile on your face.

dcmcki
01-16-2009, 12:16 AM
From the sound of things I'm gonna have to give it a go once I purchase a new ride. Prolly gonna put those BA's out there FS and start searching for some ID stuffz.

dcmcki
01-16-2009, 12:18 AM
What is the going rate for some good used Ultras or CD2's???? I only assume they are both going to be fairly close in price range.

RogerKline
01-16-2009, 12:23 AM
If you end up having to buy new, just buy the B&C drivers from which the CD2 are sourced and then order a pair of lenses. That would save you a ton of money. You can do the same thing with the Ultras.

atsaubrey
01-16-2009, 11:55 AM
The ultra is NOT a B&C driver FYI

James Bang
01-16-2009, 03:46 PM
I have horns, not ultras, but i would never go 3 way after hearing horns.

I'm going 3-way fronts WITH horns :D. IMO, just because they can play super low, doesn't they have to.


though, i am thinking about selling my cd2 neos and trying large format tweets just for something new.

shaneb
01-16-2009, 03:50 PM
I'm going 3-way fronts WITH horns :D. IMO, just because they can play super low, doesn't they have to.


though, i am thinking about selling my cd2 neos and trying large format tweets just for something new.

I've also heard your car is a tough one to get into :)
How do you like that? I wouldn't mind having the sub bass literally upfront, but I don't think I would go with a conventional 3 way setup. Just cut a massive hole in my firewall and throw 2 8's in it. Deleting trunk subs

James Bang
01-16-2009, 04:01 PM
it's gotten better since I don't have the extruding doorpods anymore... I think there's a lot of space, but i'm only 5'7", 170lbs


IMO, it looks very welcoming:
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a11/mobster909/New%20install/IMG00069.jpg

dcmcki
01-16-2009, 04:08 PM
I would say overboard ^^^^^^^ but I am the one with two 10's and 4KW and wants SQ front stage.:crazy:

James Bang
01-16-2009, 04:10 PM
not too much, not too less... just right :)

dcmcki
01-16-2009, 04:31 PM
not too much, not too less... just right :)

I'm sure it is. I'd love to hear it just wish I was closer. Those doors kick azz. :fyi:

shaneb
01-16-2009, 04:33 PM
not too much, not too less... just right :)

Holy crap....
Hahahaha that's the most ridiculously great thing I've seen.
How do your doors hold up to that? I couldn't imagine doing that in my prelude.

I was thinking more of a Mark Eldridge approach and stick my subs in my engine bay lol.

Are those full bodies?

James Bang
01-16-2009, 04:35 PM
Holy crap....
Hahahaha that's the most ridiculously great thing I've seen.
How do your doors hold up to that? I couldn't imagine doing that in my prelude.

I was thinking more of a Mark Eldridge approach and stick my subs in my engine bay lol.

4 layers of 3/4 mdf should hold up a little 10".

too bad my door panels aren't as stiff as those 4 layers. :crap:

atsaubrey
01-16-2009, 06:51 PM
it's gotten better since I don't have the extruding doorpods anymore... I think there's a lot of space, but i'm only 5'7", 170lbs


IMO, it looks very welcoming:
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a11/mobster909/New%20install/IMG00069.jpg

Yeah right when you "grow up/fat" like me let's see how welcoming it is :p:

audiolife
01-16-2009, 07:10 PM
ultras were altec if i remember right. I had cd-3 ultras and cd-2 pros...before they were bc.

the peizo horns can still sound very good as those were my first set of horns..can't get as loud and sound as dynamic as the big boy horns but they smoke most regular speaker sets LOL.

squeak9798
01-16-2009, 07:52 PM
the lot of eq thing is bulpucky. they can sound good outta the box.


I ran my Illusion CH1's with no EQ and they certainly didn't sound bad. Could have sounded better with some, but sounded good without any.


Plan on switching back to horns when the weather warms up. I miss them :(

squeak9798
01-16-2009, 07:54 PM
I'm going 3-way fronts WITH horns :D. IMO, just because they can play super low, doesn't they have to.


though, i am thinking about selling my cd2 neos and trying large format tweets just for something new.

What's your price? :D


I've thought about going 3-way with the Audax PR170M0. Winslow and the others seemed to really like them.......

audiolife
01-16-2009, 07:54 PM
you are going to have fun putting horns in that car!

dcmcki
01-18-2009, 07:21 PM
What cars or trucks are "EASIER" to install horns into????......I'm not really looking to buy a car/truck around the system but if it just so happens that they match....well........;)

Louisiana_CRX
01-18-2009, 07:26 PM
the newer Mustangs have a good dash for them with the Mach 500 stereo or better you get .5 cu ft enclousures in your doors for your mid bass that has a factory 8 so easy upgrade for your midbass :)

Horsemanwill
01-18-2009, 09:47 PM
anything with a flat dash is what your lookin for. and w/o a center makes it easier to control waves.

dcmcki
02-09-2009, 10:57 AM
OK back from the depths............

Next question.........dual 6.5's or some good 8's for mids?????????????

I know what 6.5's are out there but not much knowledge on good 7-9" mids......something in the $200-$300 range. If I went with 6.5's prolly run two pair ID oems but certantly open to suggestions.

James Bang
02-09-2009, 11:07 AM
can you fit 10"s? :) I have a pair FS that would work.

dcmcki
02-09-2009, 12:14 PM
can you fit 10"s? :) I have a pair FS that would work.

I not sure on the vehicel yet to be honest. I am waiting on income tax refund to buy a new car. I am pretty sure I can get 8's to fit most anywhere or dual 6.5's for that matter. 10's will be tough no matter what.:crazy:

I wanted your **** horns but they went FAST.:crap:

Horsemanwill
02-09-2009, 05:51 PM
i run dual 6.5s they sound good :D if you have the room may i recommend ID X69 mids or hell even the x57 mids would work.

Brian_smith06
02-09-2009, 05:53 PM
i run dual 6.5s they sound good :D if you have the room may i recommend ID X69 mids or hell even the x57 mids would work.

dont trust this guy on id stuff ;)

dcmcki
02-09-2009, 06:55 PM
i run dual 6.5s they sound good :D if you have the room may i recommend ID X69 mids or hell even the x57 mids would work.

I was thinking ID oems if I went with 6.5's.....I never thought about the 5x7's or even the 6x9's.

I wish I could find some IDQ8's but that prolly aint gonna happen.:crying:

Horsemanwill
02-09-2009, 06:57 PM
you be suprised about those 8's scour every forum possible. i've heard a couple cars with the x69 mids and they sound beautiful.

squeak9798
02-09-2009, 07:04 PM
OK back from the depths............

Next question.........dual 6.5's or some good 8's for mids?????????????

I know what 6.5's are out there but not much knowledge on good 7-9" mids......something in the $200-$300 range. If I went with 6.5's prolly run two pair ID oems but certantly open to suggestions.

Depends on several factors. Frequency range, install locations, specific drivers we're discussing, etc.

Are you doing a kickpanel install or strictly in the doors? What frequency range will the driver(s) be covering?

Would I run a single 8 in the kicks instead of a pair of 6.5's in the door if it were running into the midrange? Probably. Kicks are a better install location for PLD and aiming. Dual 6.5" mids are only going to net you about a 2db increase in output over a single 8" (all else equal), which is an "audible" difference but not a large audible difference especially considering you're doing good for yourself if you can get your response to within +/- 3db. Plus IMO it's "easier" to build kicks than rebuild a door panel.


And depending on the frequency range you're running you might run into problems with cancellation between the two drivers in the midrange frequencies (probably not as much of a problem if you're running horns since the lowpass will still be in the lower midrange frequencies). But in a 2-way with a standard tweeter crossed at 2.5khz+ this would be more of an issue.

But that's not to say a pair of properly done 6.5" drivers can't sound good......as I'm sure Horseman will attest. It just comes down to particular circumstances. Heck, I have a quad 6.5's sitting around I was debating on running in my doors as midbass just for shits and giggles :D But I might stick with an 8" for midbass. Still undecided (Haha! Which I guess in the end means we're ultimately in the same boat :p: )

dcmcki
02-09-2009, 08:23 PM
Depends on several factors. Frequency range, install locations, specific drivers we're discussing, etc.

Are you doing a kickpanel install or strictly in the doors? What frequency range will the driver(s) be covering?

Would I run a single 8 in the kicks instead of a pair of 6.5's in the door if it were running into the midrange? Probably. Kicks are a better install location for PLD and aiming. Dual 6.5" mids are only going to net you about a 2db increase in output over a single 8" (all else equal), which is an "audible" difference but not a large audible difference especially considering you're doing good for yourself if you can get your response to within +/- 3db. Plus IMO it's "easier" to build kicks than rebuild a door panel.


And depending on the frequency range you're running you might run into problems with cancellation between the two drivers in the midrange frequencies (probably not as much of a problem if you're running horns since the lowpass will still be in the lower midrange frequencies). But in a 2-way with a standard tweeter crossed at 2.5khz+ this would be more of an issue.

But that's not to say a pair of properly done 6.5" drivers can't sound good......as I'm sure Horseman will attest. It just comes down to particular circumstances. Heck, I have a quad 6.5's sitting around I was debating on running in my doors as midbass just for shits and giggles :D But I might stick with an 8" for midbass. Still undecided (Haha! Which I guess in the end means we're ultimately in the same boat :p: )

Thank you for the response and opinion.

I tend to agree with you that if possible to get an 8" into the kick without any issues would be my first choice. The dual 6.5's would deffinately require more "work" to get done no matter the circumstances. If I find some good 8's I'll make em fit. I guess I'm still trying to gather things and get ready for a new car.

Any other suggestions on 8's?

Oh yeah and you **** for beating me to those CD2 neo's you just picked up.:crap:

HCCA
02-09-2009, 10:51 PM
K, here ya go. JUMP ON 'EM!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/Image-Dynamics-CD-2-Comp-Compression-Horn-Drivers_W0QQitemZ160314106211QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCa r_Speakers?hash=item160314106211&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A13 18|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Image-Dynamics-CD-2-Comp-Compression-Horn-Drivers_W0QQitemZ160314106211QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCa r_Speakers?hash=item160314106211&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A13 18|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50)

Horsemanwill
02-09-2009, 10:56 PM
even though i have the dual 6.5 in each door i have an extra amp sitting in my closet for some 8s :D just waiting for the 8s.

dcmcki
02-10-2009, 09:21 PM
you be suprised about those 8's scour every forum possible. i've heard a couple cars with the x69 mids and they sound beautiful.

I am and will continue to.......you will let me know if you see any now won't you.:D

Horsemanwill
02-10-2009, 09:22 PM
sure if i don't buy them myself.

batvette
02-14-2009, 06:57 PM
How much eq fiddling they need is partly dependent on where your Xover point is at.... we like to X them over low for the imaging benefits inherent but that leads to the dreaded honkification... I competed with ID comp horns and did very well, even xing over as low as 550 or so but had 2 mitigating factors:

#1 I had them in a 80's corvette (they are still in it and the car's in my driveway, without a stereo tho but I can shoot a pic if u want) and I had them installed top of the dash at eye level- AND I ran the horn bodies through the table saw and elliminated almost 1/3 of the body so the dash became part of the horn, seamlessly. This meant they were lower profile. The fact they were at eye level meant they wouldn't have to be pushed so hard for output and the smaller horn meant they wouldn't honk if you did push them. (the image dynamics reps on the circuit that year treated me like I had the plague for second guessing their computer modeled horn shape. oh well!)

#2 I ran them with their own dedicated channels off an a/d/s p840. Very important to first have an amp with a tightly regulated output regardless of input voltage, none of this cheater amp ****. Secondly to not run with a passive Xover on the same amp channels as regular cone mids, whose impedence shifts dramatically thus changing the Xover point the horns see constantly. Many horn mfrs. used to sell their horns with kits that had passive crossovers along with their mids. I cannot for the life of me think of how the end user would have liked the resulting sound, conventional mids and horn drivers just do not play well with each other when interacting through a passive Xover.

At the Socal IASCA regionals in 98 at circuit city, I placed first in my division (novice 601+) over 7-8 competitors and received a 50/50 imaging score with this setup. (interesting to note the SQ judge that gave me that score was an employee of USD speakerworks!)

Are horns a pain? Yep, and they are not for every car. Done right, nothing else comes close. When you can close your eyes and hear parts of the music coming from 10-15 feet outside the physical boundaries of the vehicle, you have world class sound quality.

dcmcki
02-15-2009, 01:39 PM
How much eq fiddling they need is partly dependent on where your Xover point is at.... we like to X them over low for the imaging benefits inherent but that leads to the dreaded honkification... I competed with ID comp horns and did very well, even xing over as low as 550 or so but had 2 mitigating factors:

#1 I had them in a 80's corvette (they are still in it and the car's in my driveway, without a stereo tho but I can shoot a pic if u want) and I had them installed top of the dash at eye level- AND I ran the horn bodies through the table saw and elliminated almost 1/3 of the body so the dash became part of the horn, seamlessly. This meant they were lower profile. The fact they were at eye level meant they wouldn't have to be pushed so hard for output and the smaller horn meant they wouldn't honk if you did push them. (the image dynamics reps on the circuit that year treated me like I had the plague for second guessing their computer modeled horn shape. oh well!)

#2 I ran them with their own dedicated channels off an a/d/s p840. Very important to first have an amp with a tightly regulated output regardless of input voltage, none of this cheater amp ****. Secondly to not run with a passive Xover on the same amp channels as regular cone mids, whose impedence shifts dramatically thus changing the Xover point the horns see constantly. Many horn mfrs. used to sell their horns with kits that had passive crossovers along with their mids. I cannot for the life of me think of how the end user would have liked the resulting sound, conventional mids and horn drivers just do not play well with each other when interacting through a passive Xover.

At the Socal IASCA regionals in 98 at circuit city, I placed first in my division (novice 601+) over 7-8 competitors and received a 50/50 imaging score with this setup. (interesting to note the SQ judge that gave me that score was an employee of USD speakerworks!)

Are horns a pain? Yep, and they are not for every car. Done right, nothing else comes close. When you can close your eyes and hear parts of the music coming from 10-15 feet outside the physical boundaries of the vehicle, you have world class sound quality.

Interesting to say the least. Lots of good info.