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rsbukowski
12-30-2008, 09:25 PM
Separating this from the Eclipse thread so people do not get confused. My ipod crapped out so I want to go bigger and better this time. As the web seems to be missing solid information on USB HD hook ups to car stereo receivers, I thought I would offer my trials, errors, and findings. All good information may help you all save frustration.

Happy Reading

rsbukowski
12-30-2008, 09:27 PM
Re: USB Hard Drive for Eclipse MK II

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by wu501
the drive might be trying to pull more power than the head unit is providing. I know my Kenwood handles a 40 gb drive with no problems.
</End Quote>

Greetings, I am struggling to find sufficient information about wiring usb HD to a HU. I own a Kenwood Excelon KDC-X590. It is a 320gb HD and supposively the HU can go up to 8 folders. However I can't get past the second. It won't recognize all the audio.... I pulled some of the subdirectories and placed them on the main directory to see and now I can't even find those.

For example. Rock > Aerosmith > 5 albums. Took the 5 albums labeled Aerosmith - Title into main directory with "Rock". This doesn't even show the "Aerosmith" Folders anymore.

I am routing power from my cigarette lighter with a USB 2.0 plug and the HU gives out 500mA obvisouly, so the Lacie 320gb portable HD is getting sufficient power.


I don't understand why it wont read the folder archive/subfolders and I dont understand why when it recognizes the folders it can't go into it.

Rock>Aerosmith>Album ---but can not access folder with .mp3's

Any suggestions.. It does say something about no more than 15,000 files.. how many in a 40gb HD?

Does this have anything to do the bitrate? Most mp3's have been downloaded via napster days, limewire, or now torrents.

Ref: http://www.kenwood.co.jp/usb/english.html from a previous post as well.

Sorry for all the questions but all this invested it would be nice to get it to work, ya know?

Any HU that will recognize a 320gb drive or is this act of technology not ready yet.

rsbukowski
12-30-2008, 09:27 PM
As I said I was, I did some testing in an audio store today. Took my laptop and hard drive in and had the owner pull the units from shelfs so I could access USB plugs. Unfortunately their stock of HU have been limited due to the holiday season and meeting consumer demands. Meaning limited on flagship units and middle class units.

I stand corrected with my own unit. It is the 2008 Kenwood BT838u.

So after results show:

KENWOOD:
Kenwood 2008 USB devices can hold a total of 65,025 Files
Configurations are as follows: 255^2 = 65,025. Meaning you would have to archive a maximum of 255 folders with each folder containing a maximum of 255 songs. So... Rock > A > Aerosmith > Pump > 13 Songs Would be 4 folders + the songs towards the 65,025 files. With 255 folders would enable 64,770 songs.

To ipod standards the 120gb = 30K songs. For my 320gb, 298gb after FAT32 format with 240gb for 60K songs. Figure, 4,000 more songs for > 10 gigs, thats 250gb MAX. You are only missing out on 40gb....

This is why people with USB HD LESS then 200GB say everything works perfectly, minus power consumption problems. Kenwood uses their own processor to index HD and this seems to be their limit after consulting a technician. 2009 models will have increased limit he said but not giving any specifics as the CES event in Las Vegas is early Jan (?) and specs will be released then.

ALPINE: Alpine was ****. 80 gigs only, Technician was not helpful either. They are only considering the Ipod functions. Wouldn't reccomend.

JVC: Their two products are significantly larger then Kenwood and Alpine; specifically the JVC KD-SH1000 and KD-PDR80 however I did not get the opportunity to test these head units, I'm only going from what the Technician voiced over phone. Neither unit supports Bluetooth/AD2P unfortunately these units are deprived of expansion options but the SH1000 is a very stellar module.

KD-SH1000: Has both USB/SD functions and the manual is rather confusing when stating playback capability. What I gathered from it anyways:
Can recognize a total of 512 files, of 200 folders, and of 8 hierarchies.
*200 Folders > 500 Files = 102,400 OR For USB Memory (what is the difference in usb memory?) This unit can recognize a total of 2 500 files and 250 folders (999 files per folder). Technician could not clarify this for me. I'm considering this unit can read USB HD of 250 folders @ 999 files per folder...? Giving a total of 249,750 .mp3's

If at 30K is 120gb;
30K = 120gb ; 60K = 240gb ; 90K = 360gb ; 120K = 480gb ; 150K = 600gb ;
180K = 720gb & 210K = 840gb ; 240K = 960gb

960gb of music? I just don't see this possible after companys wont break 65K, these guys go well beyond 200K songs. Obvisouly you wouldn't have these songs organized very well due to the 250 folder limit and having to stack 999 songs in each, Shuffle for Head Units are normally shuffling to a specific folder and in order to randomize a specific folder you would have to either press up or down.
Keep this in mind.

Need a break, will follow up with Clarion, Sony, and Panasonic

bigaudiofanatic
12-30-2008, 09:40 PM
I would rather use a ipod less of a chance of the hard drive forgetting its partion "if you shut off the car while the hard drive is still running this can happen and you would have to format is "wipe it out" and start over" Like I said would rather use an ipod plain and simple.

rsbukowski
12-30-2008, 10:01 PM
Ipod is limited to 120gb of music, however their shuffle is far greater then any head unit. That is the advantage of Flash Drive memory over HD. But it is Plug N Play. I do not know how this compares but I can't imagine it is any different then unplugging flash drive from laptop. Both providing power. I unplug my flash drive no problem, and this hard drive I have had for 2-3 weeks now and have no had a problem. So to say "wipe out" may be a problem of the past.

BoxdGM
12-30-2008, 10:08 PM
modded xbox ftw, i have 100gb in it now. i had a 300gb in it till i took it out. you can go as big as 1TB, plays ANY files. but you need a monitor to select music

rsbukowski
12-30-2008, 10:49 PM
Alright, the second coming of information for 2008:

PANASONIC:

Panasonic CQ-RX400U is there only USB - CD - BT HU...

USB: 999 files ; 255 Folders
CD: 256 Folders w/ 999 files. Not sure how this could be done..

Very similiar to JVC's unit plus the BT which is nice. Wasn't impressed with the overall look or anything but it does get the job done and I'm not reviewing products since I can't actually get hands on.

SONY:

Sony is very limited unfortunately. No unit has both BT and USB. But their usb capabilities are similar to kenwoods HU models. They do have BT and Ipod adapter for Ipod fans, but thats not what we are trying to do here.

Sony GT620UUSB
Maximum # of 65,535 Files ; USB Maximum # of 128 Folders ; USB Maximum # of 8 Layers . Not sure how many files per folder but you can expect 255 to 999.

CLARION

Note: Tech support was not open during research

Finally Clarion, has left us with multiple options and even different amounts of files depending on what model you purchase.

These units seem very good suprisingly as I've found them to be a japan company only making products in china...hm...
Both Dot displays where no where near impressive...but we are looking for HD hookup right?

Their flagship is DXZ785USB which their specs were held from website.

However their middline products have good playback capability
The DXZ585USB ; DXZ385USB offers 130,560* songs through usb.

Interesting enough Clarions lower end model DB285USB ; offer only 65,025 songs. With indication of file structure limits or folder/file limits.

The manuals do not mention full capability and they are closed as I write this so you'll be on your own to discover Clarions possibilities.

To conclude this Head Unit lab report as it has turned out to be. I would honestly wait for the CES show of 2009 and see what comes out new for the same price a head unit would of cost you at the beginning of this year. $350/$400.

But if it comes down to it, as it is for myself.

The 65K songs on my kenwood will work until I feel its upgradeable. The only one worth considering outside with similiar features is the Panasonic RX400U or the Clarion DXZ785USB which seems like a sharp looking unit with a bucket load of features.

Kenwoods BT838U bluetooth is prolly a 5/10 outside the city & 6/10 in the city. The other end user complains of uncontrolled loud volume and high static. I think for what it is, deff worth the deal with the HU so I'm not complaining.

Good searching...

BlurredVision
12-30-2008, 10:58 PM
I will quickly tell you that I think all Pioneer USB radios read any size HDs. My boy can use a 250 on his.

norcrawler
12-30-2008, 10:59 PM
i just wanna get liek a 80 gig portable for my pioneer deh 6000.
thats plenty of tunes for me.
and what are u talking about turning power off before the hardrive. it always does that

BlurredVision
12-30-2008, 11:06 PM
portable laptop HD work just as good as flashdrives. I think Western Digital is your best bet. They make a nice black shiny one that is anti-shock and has a nice warranty.

edzy
12-30-2008, 11:12 PM
interesting.
Theres a forum, talk audio uk that does a lot of stuff with harddrives /usb/carputers.
I have a 4 gig thumbdrive and it suits me. I just picked up a 8gig, and am going to try that. As far as a HD goes, organization is the main obstacle as you stated.
There realy needs to be a better audio program to organize files.
I use Kenwoods Phatnoise program now. It is very easy to use, and makes finding songs easy. It can make 99 folders with like ...i forget ...songs in it, but atleast 99. Plus it has voice indexing which is cool. So you dont have to look at the hu to see what folder your on, cause it says it. Or anything else you program it to say. It can also voice out folder, artist, song.

rsbukowski
12-30-2008, 11:41 PM
portable laptop HD work just as good as flashdrives. I think Western Digital is your best bet. They make a nice black shiny one that is anti-shock and has a nice warranty.

I picked up the LaCie's 320gb w/firewire and eSata All Terrain Rugged HD. The power distributor option was also a key feature since HU only offer 500mA, I needed to disperse power from my car lighter outlet for the 5v and the HU gives it the extra juice. I'm sure the WD is a good go too. I've read that people just use a 120AC adapter to car lighter to operate the Home HDs.

-----

Panasonic as I did state holds the 255 * 999 just not sure how man files per folder. May you care to share how your son hooked his up BlurredVision?

-----

edzy this Kenwoods Phatnoise did you isntall it on your flashdrive or is this something that is compatible with your stereo?

Cheers!

BlurredVision
12-30-2008, 11:55 PM
Not my son, more like my homeboy. But with his radio, he just hooked the HD to it and it powered on. I know home portable HD need an external power source. The 2.5" external drive can be power off a small source. His has the USB hookup. This type: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136059

I'm not sure how to run your, but I'm sure its possible.

norcrawler
12-30-2008, 11:57 PM
a external wont work becasue it has to be powered from a 12 volt psu. portables will work cause it draws right off the deck

rsbukowski
12-31-2008, 12:00 AM
Powering it is not the problem. Archiving over 100gb of music has left me with results shorter then unsatisfied. If you talk to your friend, see if he remembers how many files he has per folder and how many folders....then I guess we'd need to know what HU he has if he was completely successful like you say.

Thanks in advance.

rsbukowski
12-31-2008, 12:02 AM
Kenwoods Phatnoise program seems to be for particular HU's and...I dont think the BT838U will recognize. And the Kenwood Keg is ancient technology along with being very expensive. Bummer.

Maybe a better clarification on the Kenwoods Phatnoise program and how you manipulate it Edz will help us all understand better?

thanks

edzy
12-31-2008, 12:02 AM
it was the program given out when you got a 06 or earlier kenwood excelon HU. or hu with usb i think. I know the Phatnoise company is no longer, and Kenwood now uses a generic music media to organize the folders. It does not have the voice indexing either of Phatnoise.
And it came as a CD that you load on to the pc, then import your songs into it, like any media manager. make folders, add tracks, save on flashdrive.
btw, the 4gig sandisk micro cruisers that i use were loaded with programs when bought. I had to go to some online place to dl a program just to formatt the flashdrives. Scype or something like that was one that was a pain to lose. You cant just format it on the pc when new. Once its off, it becomes a generic storage device and takes the Phatnoise program. Also Phat noise will support flac file and the Ken x890 does too. Some hu's with the usb dont.
One of the reason I like the usb, being the flac files are huge.

edzy
12-31-2008, 12:04 AM
btw, you can see it in action in my sig vid. talking and stuff. lol.

norcrawler
12-31-2008, 12:46 AM
btw, you can see it in action in my sig vid. talking and stuff. lol.

dam thats a tight setup.lol
what do u use to organize those folders and make it say all the title for the genres and ****?lol
thats tight

Ferendon
12-31-2008, 01:12 AM
Pioneer Premier DEH-P700BT

Supports up to 250GB @ .5A on USB, as well as iPod with the included adapter for USB. BT is built in, Hi-Volt pre-outs, OEL display (LCDs ****), 2 year warranty. Retails for $329. I'm sure you can get it for less online.

I have 3 entire sound rooms full of USB head units, and rarely do they work properly with HDDs of substantial size. Pioneer seems to have the best USB Mass Storage support, and even it is limited to 250GB. It's also a **** ton easier to use than anything Kenwood makes, and you won't find a comparable Alpine for anywhere near that dollar amount.

rsbukowski
12-31-2008, 10:41 AM
The Pioneers, It maybe 250gb but does it have to be similarly categorized with 999 files in each of the 250 folders? No one has been able to give a detailed answer as tech support was more like customer sales.

I'm a big fan of the double wheels in the Keenwood, took my a week to get use to it but I like a wheel better then pushing a bunch of buttons. Keeps the interface clean with hardly any buttons, and looks sharp with its 2 line dot display and blue flashing led's

nineball
12-31-2008, 01:49 PM
i have the jvc kd-sh1000 (amazing sq from this btw) and it works fine with a 4g or 8g usb stick but it did not work with my 80g bus powered drive. it recognized that the drive was plugged in but it would never play from it. the sd slot is limited to a max size of 2g and must be formatted to FAT (or FAT16 as it used to be called) to work. it will not recognize it with any other formatting.

i also used the pioneer cd-ub100 on a 5700 flip out. it worked perfectly with both usb flash drives and my 80g drive. still have this if anyone is looking for one.

i have an alpine ida-x100 sitting next to me waiting for the weather to warm up, so i have no experience with it yet. i did install an ida-x001 earlier and it worked with flash drives but did not like my 80g drive.

norcrawler
12-31-2008, 04:26 PM
The Pioneers, It maybe 250gb but does it have to be similarly categorized with 999 files in each of the 250 folders? No one has been able to give a detailed answer as tech support was more like customer sales.

I'm a big fan of the double wheels in the Keenwood, took my a week to get use to it but I like a wheel better then pushing a bunch of buttons. Keeps the interface clean with hardly any buttons, and looks sharp with its 2 line dot display and blue flashing led's

ya i just want a solid answer and solution to this.i dont know why they have to make it so complicated :wow::wow:

edzy
12-31-2008, 06:48 PM
dam thats a tight setup.lol
what do u use to organize those folders and make it say all the title for the genres and ****?lol
thats tight

Phatnoise, Like I said it was in some of the 2006 and before models.
I tried my flash drive in some of the 07-08 models and it would not recognize it. It would still play the songs, but it was messed up. Folders and songs were missing.
So you need the HU and program in order for it to work.
Ive never tried to max out my folders or files in it, just because i dont have that many files. I have about 950 files on my 4 gig now, and when i put it on random, i can go for like a month before it re ups. Honestly i dont know what i would do with an 80 gig storage. Unless i had a dvd screen HU and was storing **** on it to play... But thats why i gots the VCR and Dtv for.....

rsbukowski
01-01-2009, 10:30 AM
Impressive van with all those mixed components.

Is the software still available, I just found drivers for the MMC? I can't remember exactly, I only looked real quick, but if you think it will work with my HU then I'd be willing to give it a shot.

edzy
01-01-2009, 11:51 AM
this is the CD

http://store.kenwoodusa.com/detail/KWD+W01-1673-05

It lists the model numbers that have the ac drive that it is compatible with. I tried my phatnoise drive in other models at a store, and it did not work. I had a x590, but upgraded to the x890 and it took my ages to find one new, with the kenwood 2 year warranty. They may still be out there, but are gettting harder and harder to find.
imo, The X890 is the best one to date, due to the phatnoise and the other cool stuff it can do. Also i believe it has 24 bit dacs. (burr brown). For me, i like the look of it too. Im not a big fan of that cyclopse look of the pioneers or alpines.

rsbukowski
01-02-2009, 11:38 AM
Good references.

Thank you all for your input

Minburn
02-21-2009, 10:53 PM
For the last half a year or so I've been using both a CD-UB100 on an Pioneer Premiere 800 and the USB connection through the back of a Premiere 780BT.

The CD-UB100 does not play WAV. That I don't like. Have reasonable mp3's on a WD 160 GB external that I play through that unit. While it can read (have about 60 CD's on it; a minute at startup before it will play) it is most annoying in that it doesn't work all the time i.e. some times "NO DEVICE", other times "NO AUDIO". I'd guess that 75% of the time no problem. But that is quickly getting to be not good enough. Came close to putting my fist into the unit just the other week.

The 780BT plays the same HDD but with WAV files. Works about 90% of the time.

I'm finding the biggest problems after shutting down the car then starting up; more so short durations off then back on. If I shut off for the night, no problems starting up in the a.m. and reading the drives.

I don't know why no 100% performance with either. The WD HDD requires minimal (and within spec) current that the head units will provide.

Of note: 16GB or 32GB thumbdrives . . . no problems and almost instantaneous read (for either mps or wav depending upon the head unit).

Thinking of dumping the 800 because of the issue. As well, not happy with the external USB not playing back WAV files. Looking at another of the Premiere that will allow WAV (perhaps even a dupe of the 780 as it works so well with everything else). The only thing stopping me is the excellent sound when playing CD's with that particular unit. Incredible sounding.

As to what is displayed in either, I don't fuss too much with that. Some quick folder/cd ID and I pick and play. I realize both are very limited, but I don't jump about other than to put another recording to play.

If anyone has any idea re: the issues with the CD-UB100, by all means open to hearing them. I've tried every conceivable sequence of actions when switching off the car and starting up. I sense it's just a finicky piece of work.

So may have the 800 and CD-UB100 up for sale . . . . . .

Flipx99
02-21-2009, 11:05 PM
For those that are using hard drives with the Pioneers, how long does it take from turn on until music?

I don't need 100 GB worth of music...I was thinking something in the 80GB range.

nineball
02-21-2009, 11:32 PM
my 5700 / cd-ub100 was pretty quick at reading the 80g i used with it.

vancamp
04-04-2009, 02:31 PM
For those that are using hard drives with the Pioneers, how long does it take from turn on until music?

I don't need 100 GB worth of music...I was thinking something in the 80GB range.

Using an 80GB drive powered through a lighter adapter, pretty well full, with a Pioneer 6900, it takes a little over a minute (1:15?) before it starts playing. That time can be spent playing another source (radio, cd, etc.). It's relatively convenient keeping a CD of mp3s in the CD drive as an alternate source.