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View Full Version : Fiberglassing didn't go so well... help.



sexiewasd
12-21-2008, 05:30 PM
So my box is permanently in my trunk now and almost finished, I just have to fiberglass part of the top. I started laying down mat today and I made one really big mistake, I bought bondo brand resin and hardener. The mat stuck to my gloves more than the box and after I got it on it would fall off. (it's upside down, top of box and glassing from the inside.) I made a huge mess but managed to get two layers stuck down before I got too pissed off to finish.

Now I have a **** ton of cutting and sanding to do that I didn't plan on because of the air bubbles and parts that just wouldn't stick. I ended up going through four of those tiny tubes of hardener at $2 a pop and had to throw most of it out as it would not stick.

(Question)
I know I can order some better stuff from UScomposites, but what should I get that will actually stick to the box and not me, I have a heated garage to work in (70-75deg). Also what weight mat should I use?

I am never using that bondo **** again, I made a mess and about 3 hours more work, my arm is sticky and later I will have to pull out lots of arm hairs.

Any other tips would be appreciated.

JeepCreepin96
12-21-2008, 05:33 PM
pics?

aturcotte127317
12-21-2008, 05:34 PM
when i did my box, i used some **** that they use to fill holes in dry wall, it works good if you put a sealer over it at the end (i put a later of resin) and cover it with something (i used fleece)

sexiewasd
12-21-2008, 05:54 PM
I will later, it's a snow storm outside, ok a few quick ones but thats it, tis coooooolddd...


messy, lotsa air bubbles, didn't saturate well at all.
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm229/sexiewasd/102_9333.jpg

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm229/sexiewasd/102_9332.jpg





This is the box so you can see how I have to lay the mat down.
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm229/sexiewasd/102_9328.jpg

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm229/sexiewasd/102_9329.jpg















http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm229/sexiewasd/102_9331.jpg
burrrrr.

brokeitagain
12-21-2008, 07:16 PM
tried thinning the resin with acetone?

sexiewasd
12-21-2008, 07:18 PM
Yea I did there was more but mixed with acetone it didn't stick at all and I ended up just taking it off before it cured. :crap:

brokeitagain
12-21-2008, 07:20 PM
are you dipping the mat in resin before applying and coating the surface to be applied to before laying mat?

EDIT it appears that you are applying mat dry and that makes air bubbles near impossible to remove

sexiewasd
12-21-2008, 08:07 PM
I didn't coat the cloth but that layer actually stuck, I tried dabbing at it with one of the those foam brushes but it just pulled the mat off and made a big mess, I was stuck with dipping the mat and trying to hold it in place until the resin soaked through.

brokeitagain
12-21-2008, 08:12 PM
dont use foam brushes use bristle brushes, i have better luck with them. you need to first apply resin to the surface then soak mat and then dab the mat down wtih a resin coated brush, keep working until all of the air pockets are worked out

Bondo brand resin is fine to use its got the same chemical compisition as us composites, its your technique thats giving you the problems

sexiewasd
12-21-2008, 08:23 PM
I'll trust you on that one, It's my first time using fiberglass and it obviously didn't work out too well. If I coat the surface then dip the cloth, then dab with more resin that seams like it would be way too much resin, when I dip the mat in it comes out with a two millimeter thick coat of resin on one side and it doesn't seam to soak through well at all..

Crzy
12-21-2008, 08:28 PM
you might of mixed it with too much ardener seeing as you had to buy so many tubes of it. ive used the bondo brand, it isnt the best but it does stick decently well. ive had it adhere to abs plastics in the car very well

did u try scuffing up the surface and preping it? try to mix it with less hardner and use a heat lamp to cure it for the first layer

i by no means am an expert at glassing but those are somethings i would of tryed

also i liek to use bondo spreaders when spreading resing, i first spread a thin layer on the surfacee im adhering to, then wet the matt off of what will be glassed (on a bench) then i place it where it needs to be and use some more resin if it is not adhering well. i never use brushes when doing glassing just bondo spreaders, those plastic ones and then clean them up with laqeur thinner so i can re use them. never had a problem or many air bubles doing it this way.

way my dad tought me and he did glass work in the autobody industry for a good amount of time, doing it that way has yeilded me good result

NeverEnuffBass
12-21-2008, 08:31 PM
So my box is permanently in my trunk now and almost finished, I just have to fiberglass part of the top. I started laying down mat today and I made one really big mistake, I bought bondo brand resin and hardener. The mat stuck to my gloves more than the box and after I got it on it would fall off. (it's upside down, top of box and glassing from the inside.) I made a huge mess but managed to get two layers stuck down before I got too pissed off to finish.

Now I have a **** ton of cutting and sanding to do that I didn't plan on because of the air bubbles and parts that just wouldn't stick. I ended up going through four of those tiny tubes of hardener at $2 a pop and had to throw most of it out as it would not stick.

(Question)
I know I can order some better stuff from UScomposites, but what should I get that will actually stick to the box and not me, I have a heated garage to work in (70-75deg). Also what weight mat should I use?

I am never using that bondo **** again, I made a mess and about 3 hours more work, my arm is sticky and later I will have to pull out lots of arm hairs.

Any other tips would be appreciated.


Is this your first time glassing? If so I'd recommend maybe starting out playing around with glassing something outside of the car

speedfreak28
12-21-2008, 08:32 PM
dont use foam brushes use bristle brushes, i have better luck with them. you need to first apply resin to the surface then soak mat and then dab the mat down wtih a resin coated brush, keep working until all of the air pockets are worked out

Bondo brand resin is fine to use its got the same chemical compisition as us composites, its your technique thats giving you the problems

ive always wondered everyones beef with Bondo brand resin, ive never had problems with it other than the price:confused:

brokeitagain
12-21-2008, 08:53 PM
ill give you that, it does cost more but when its 3am its all walmart has lol

91Chevy
12-22-2008, 03:07 AM
ive always wondered everyones beef with Bondo brand resin, ive never had problems with it other than the price:confused:

Ditto. First and only time working with fiberglass (so far) I used Bondo resin and hardener, and the piece I made is nearly flawless. Absolutely no air bubbles, saturated the cloth nicely, stuck to what it should have, stayed off of what it should have. Overall good experience with it.

crabmustang
12-22-2008, 08:02 AM
Are you doing the glassing out side in the cold? because that will effect how the glass sticks and hardens.

sexiewasd
12-22-2008, 08:11 AM
no inside, 70degs.

1rockford1
12-22-2008, 08:12 AM
no inside, 70degs.

Well then u just **** i guess. j/k

sexiewasd
12-22-2008, 08:14 AM
no it's true it turned out horrible and needs to be redone. I'll try the paintbrush dabbing thing, and using more resin.

1rockford1
12-22-2008, 08:14 AM
well u tryed bro so thats pretty cool. u learn from your mistakes

ramos
12-22-2008, 08:45 AM
So my box is permanently in my trunk now and almost finished, I just have to fiberglass part of the top. I started laying down mat today and I made one really big mistake, I bought bondo brand resin and hardener. The mat stuck to my gloves more than the box and after I got it on it would fall off. (it's upside down, top of box and glassing from the inside.) I made a huge mess but managed to get two layers stuck down before I got too pissed off to finish.

Now I have a **** ton of cutting and sanding to do that I didn't plan on because of the air bubbles and parts that just wouldn't stick. I ended up going through four of those tiny tubes of hardener at $2 a pop and had to throw most of it out as it would not stick.

(Question)
I know I can order some better stuff from UScomposites, but what should I get that will actually stick to the box and not me, I have a heated garage to work in (70-75deg). Also what weight mat should I use?

I am never using that bondo **** again, I made a mess and about 3 hours more work, my arm is sticky and later I will have to pull out lots of arm hairs.

Any other tips would be appreciated.


Try it this way once and see if it's easier.

Get you a scrap of wood or cardboard to use as a "wet out" board. Mix your resin and catalyst, then lay a piece of mat on your wet out board and dab resin on with the brush until your mat is saturated fully. You can tell it's fully saturated when the mat becomes completely transparent. Then apply the mat , using the brush to dab out air bubbles. More resin won't make it stick better. It will actually make it fall off easier and an arse load messier. :)

wasted ink
12-22-2008, 10:20 AM
Bondo brand resin is fine to use its got the same chemical compisition as us composites, its your technique thats giving you the problems

youre wrong. that bondo bullshit is epoxy resin with a wax agent added. US composites b440 is a polyester resin, lays much nicer. you may think the bondo works fine, but try to the US composites and youll never go back.

same goes for body filler. theres no comparison between bondo and evercoat products (rage gold, rage extreme)

ramos
12-22-2008, 10:24 AM
youre wrong. that bondo bullshit is epoxy resin with a wax agent added. US composites b440 is a polyester resin, lays much nicer. you may think the bondo works fine, but try to the US composites and youll never go back.

same goes for body filler. theres no comparison between bondo and evercoat products (rage gold, rage extreme)



Hey guess what, You're wrong. Bondo brand resin is POLYESTER resin, and it comes in a couple different varieties. Surfacing (with the wax ) and layup or laminating resin (without wax). :)

ramos
12-22-2008, 10:28 AM
And just for the record most all surfacing resins have the wax added in them. The wax rises to the surface to protect the surface from air while the resin is curing :)

wasted ink
12-22-2008, 10:46 AM
Hey guess what, You're wrong. Bondo brand resin is POLYESTER resin, and it comes in a couple different varieties. Surfacing (with the wax ) and layup or laminating resin (without wax). :)

Im not wrong. i was thinking of the marine resin when he mentioned bndo brand, which IS epoxy. there is still a difference in chemical composition between the two (US composites & bondo brand) polyester resins.


And just for the record most all surfacing resins have the wax added in them. The wax rises to the surface to protect the surface from air while the resin is curing :)

for the record, not one product of US composites' polyester line contains surfacing wax. you can have wax added if you ask, but it is not in the batch ordered regularly.


not trying to argue here, just stating facts.

scoob8000
12-22-2008, 10:54 AM
Looks about like my first fiberglass attempt. Very frustrating stuff to work with, not to mention I have very little patience to begin with.

I have the same problem, it sticks to my gloves more than it wants to stick to what I'm glassing. Like if you use your hand to smooth it out, when you pull your hand away it sticks and pulls back off.

I have also used the woven fiberglass mat. It's a million times easier to work with than that long stranded stuff. Not sure if there's a strength difference though.

wasted ink
12-22-2008, 10:59 AM
Looks about like my first fiberglass attempt. Very frustrating stuff to work with, not to mention I have very little patience to begin with.

I have the same problem, it sticks to my gloves more than it wants to stick to what I'm glassing. Like if you use your hand to smooth it out, when you pull your hand away it sticks and pulls back off.

I have also used the woven fiberglass mat. It's a million times easier to work with than that long stranded stuff. Not sure if there's a strength difference though.

if you cut pieces to size first, its easier. lay a small amount of resin, put your piece down, hold it down firmly with your brush in the center, pull your hand off, then use you brush to dab the mat and wet it out. do not brush it like paint. once that piece is wetted out, move onto the next, and so on.

the mat works alot better than the woven cloth because it is stronger. it also comes in different weights, which makes a difference in strength and layup. theres nothing wrong with cloth, but mat is preffered where it takes more layers of cloth to get the same effect of mat.

ramos
12-22-2008, 11:00 AM
Im not wrong. i was thinking of the marine resin when he mentioned bondo brand, which IS epoxy. there is still a difference in chemical composition between the two (US composites & bondo brand) polyester resins.



for the record, not one product of US composites' polyester line contains surfacing wax. you can have wax added if you ask, but it is not in the batch ordered regularly.


not trying to argue here, just stating facts.



I'm not arguing either my man. There are slight chemical differences in all different brands of polyester resin. There is even slight difference from batch to batch. You say "EPOXY" likes it's a bad thing. I prefer to use epoxy resin over polyester most of the time myself. Unfortunately it comes at too much of a premium to warrant the extra expense.


But notice that US composites doesn't specifically sell a resin labeled as "SURFACING" resin. I didn't say all resins, I said specifically "Surfacing resin". Meant as the last lamination. Aids in curing and makes it a little easier to sand.
It's not a bad thing, it has a purpose. And a vary widely used purpose. :)

wasted ink
12-22-2008, 11:07 AM
I'm not arguing either my man. There are slight chemical differences in all different brands of polyester resin. There is even slight difference from batch to batch. You say "EPOXY" likes it's a bad thing. I prefer to use epoxy resin over polyester most of the time myself. Unfortunately it comes at too much of a premium to warrant the extra expense.


But notice that US composites doesn't specifically sell a resin labeled as "SURFACING" resin. I didn't say all resins, I said specifically "Surfacing resin". Meant as the last lamination. Aids in curing and makes it a little easier to sand.
It's not a bad thing, it has a purpose. And a vary widely used purpose. :)

I agree. i use epoxy time to time for certain applications, but i usually prefer the polyster for normal layup. i didnt mean epoxy was bad, but for layup, i find polyeter to be alot easier, especially for those who are unexperienced. i didnt mean to put epoxy resin down as a bad thing, but mention that polyester tends to be a little easier for layup.

i cant stand bondo products, as you can tell.

ramos
12-22-2008, 11:10 AM
I agree. i use epoxy time to time for certain applications, but i usually prefer the polyster for normal layup. i didnt mean epoxy was bad, but for layup, i find polyeter to be alot easier, especially for those who are unexperienced. i didnt mean to put epoxy resin down as a bad thing, but mention that polyester tends to be a little easier for layup.

i cant stand bondo products, as you can tell.


I noticed lol . In the op's intended appliication though. The extra "sticky" ( better adhesion qualities of epoxy) of the epoxy resin would make his life a little easier. I like epoxy mainly due to the different catalyst rates availiable. mix ratio is always the same, just use a catalyst with a different curing rate :)

Crzy
12-22-2008, 11:17 AM
you could also try to work without gloves, it wont stick to ur skin.....

i never do glass work with gloves or anything on just wash ur hands when ur done with laquer thinner and they wont be sticky anymore

req
12-22-2008, 11:18 AM
i think your biggest problem is that you are trying to lay this glass upside down while its soaking wet.

you need to use the least amount of resin as possible. and also another tip - get like a 2" chip brush from the store, and cut the bristles down like 1\2 way so they are stiffer. this helps poke the bubbles out.

so when you lay this glass, you need to rip a bunch of pieces of your fiberglass, then coat the surface lightly so the glass sticks, and put your pieces down. then using as little resin as possible, poke and prod the glass until it soaks through while working the glass with a stippling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stippling)technique.

wasted ink
12-22-2008, 11:18 AM
you could also try to work without gloves, it wont stick to ur skin.....

i never do glass work with gloves or anything on just wash ur hands when ur done with laquer thinner and they wont be sticky anymore

not to mention mekp burns your skin :rolleyes:

ramos
12-22-2008, 11:21 AM
you could also try to work without gloves, it wont stick to ur skin.....

i never do glass work with gloves or anything on just wash ur hands when ur done with laquer thinner and they wont be sticky anymore



Man fark that chit. Women waxing their legs looks painful enough. I sure as hell don't need to wax my hairy *** arms lol :)

Crzy
12-22-2008, 12:09 PM
meh ive never had a problem and did numerous glassing projects.... **** doesnt even make me itchy like people complain about. i dunno all peoples skins are different, mine usally does not get irritated verry easily by chemicals or other outside eliments

sexiewasd
12-22-2008, 12:59 PM
i think your biggest problem is that you are trying to lay this glass upside down while its soaking wet.

you need to use the least amount of resin as possible. and also another tip - get like a 2" chip brush from the store, and cut the bristles down like 1\2 way so they are stiffer. this helps poke the bubbles out.

so when you lay this glass, you need to rip a bunch of pieces of your fiberglass, then coat the surface lightly so the glass sticks, and put your pieces down. then using as little resin as possible, poke and prod the glass until it soaks through while working the glass with a stippling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stippling)technique.

I think we have a winner! I'm going to try this technique with the last couple tubes I have of hardener, I'll make smaller batches though.

I read that I should do all the layers at once and it would be easier. I don't think that applies to what I'm doing though, the third layer didn't stick at all.

I have some cloth mat as well, I was going to use it for a rear deck cover, but I'll do anything to make fiberglassing this box work better.

ramos
12-22-2008, 01:12 PM
I think we have a winner! I'm going to try this technique with the last couple tubes I have of hardener, I'll make smaller batches though.

I read that I should do all the layers at once and it would be easier. I don't think that applies to what I'm doing though, the third layer didn't stick at all.

I have some cloth mat as well, I was going to use it for a rear deck cover, but I'll do anything to make fiberglassing this box work better.



It is better ( especially in cooler weather) to do as many layers at a time as you can manage. It helps hold heat, for a better, quicker cure. :)

THUMPPER
12-22-2008, 01:31 PM
try alternating the layers......

a layer of woven matting..........a layer of cat hair...and so on.....
you may need some heat in there so the resin solidifies faster