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Jakeeck
12-12-2008, 07:44 PM
i think ive seen people say that rear speakers are unnecessary.. do most people feel that way or should i get the rears?

Side Show
12-12-2008, 07:46 PM
not needed really, but i like running rears in my cars

TurdFergueson2
12-12-2008, 07:46 PM
Best explanation I ever read about it was if you go to a concert is the music playing behind you? Though I am an advocate for rear fill, I say no one can tell you what your ears like.

KyleBechtold
12-12-2008, 07:48 PM
Best explanation I ever read about it was if you go to a concert is the music playing behind you? Though I am an advocate for rear fill, I say no one can tell you what your ears like.

Yes.. there usually is..

endofdays89
12-12-2008, 07:50 PM
i have a loud front stage and i still like my rears a little. I have mine faded to 6/15 so there is just a little bit of noise coming from behind me. It sounds like **** when there is no rears at all though because you don't get a full sound.

JimJ
12-12-2008, 07:53 PM
It sounds like **** when there is no rears at all though because you don't get a full sound.

I'm just curious, have you heard an SQ competition vehicle?

Jeremy M
12-12-2008, 07:55 PM
i've ran fronts only for soo long it sounds like **** to run rearfill...i tried rearfill for 3 days and coudn't take it anymore.

resevil83
12-12-2008, 08:51 PM
that was the same exact question I just asked in another thread. I plan on buying image dynamics ctx65cs components in the front and that's it. I eventually want to get a 10 inch jl audio sub but that is later down the road. The real question here is, are speakers like that or something comperable powerful enough to give you a full sound throughout your car? Now it also differs when you have a four door as opposed to a coupe.

I think what I'm about to get to will REALLY answer your question. People that are extremely into sound quality want to listen to the music and be able to hear each instrument accurately. When this type of person is listening to music, they are picking out each individual instrument and accurately comparing it to the real thing. Obviously no two instruments of a particular type produce the same exact sound, however they are doing this on a more general basis. The listener quickly processes the memory they have of the live instrument. They remember how it feels, they can remember the harshness, the decay time, the mid bass and every other aspect of the sound. Now for the SQ guys that read this and said "wait a minute"

To best describe how you hear music is VERY difficult. It's a feeling. These SQ guys listen to the music, but what I'm saying is that they are able to accurately compare and contrast the reproduction of the music to an expected sound.

I'm going to go out on a limb, not that I already haven't... and say this: In writing this post I answered my own question and I have a feeling that you are like me when you listen to music. I love being surrounded in sound, I love feeling the warmth of the vibrations off of my body. I like the pure pressure of the low end (sub), yet I like a compromise between that and quality. Cars that have two 15 inch subs beating down the street in my opinion is stupid. The bass overwhelms the mids and highs and you are just completely surrounded in a mix of muddy/crappy low end sounds. For some people, that does it. I like feeling that bass thump my chest a bit, however only to the extent of when it is needed. If you have ever stood about 2 feet in front of a bass drum and had someone step on the peddle you know what I mean. Yes there is "muddiness" in a front/rear speaker car setup. This is because of sound waves coming from the front speakers at one angle/distance mixing with the rears at another angle distance and PERSPECTIVE.

Go to a car and take the front/rear balance on the head unit and turn it all the way up to the front. Listen. Then put it back to normal. I am definitely getting 4 speakers. I need to be surrounded. (Some serious sq quality people HATE surround setups. I like them. NIN has an album mastered in surround sound. Buy that, listen to it, and tell me that you don't like being surrounded in sound.

Crownvicon28s
12-12-2008, 08:58 PM
Yeah I have to have my music surrounding me and its easier for my mids and highs to keep up with bass with more speakers so everything levels out.

JimJ
12-12-2008, 09:14 PM
(Some serious sq quality people HATE surround setups. I like them. NIN has an album mastered in surround sound. Buy that, listen to it, and tell me that you don't like being surrounded in sound.

Recordings that are actually miked and mixed down to 4 separate, discrete channels are a different issue. There's a difference between quadrophonic or DVD-A tracks and simply having four speakers playing a two-channel master :)

mcsoul
12-12-2008, 09:34 PM
80's metal and 70's rock practically require heavy rear
fill to sound right --- mostly for nostalgic purposes.

yes the mullet is optional.

eggyhustles
12-12-2008, 09:44 PM
i personally love rear fill

CadillacMatt
12-12-2008, 09:45 PM
I will decide on this issue once and for all when I recieve my IDCTX65CS comps. I have removed my rear 6x9s for now and the soundstage sounds "empty", you can blatantly tell that the music is coming from two speakers in the doors.

My car is also quite large on the inside and like was mentioned before this differs greatly from the cab of a truck, or a hatchback, or even a small sedan. I figure if anything though, I will run the rear speakers off of the HU and save the amp power for the ID comps :D

Which brings me to a question... with rear fill, would there be a noticeable difference from mounting them on the rear deck as opposed to in the rear doors?

Xprime4
12-12-2008, 09:50 PM
I always keep a little rearfill, if i don't i feel like my music is coming more front my left since my ear is a nearer from the leftside set. Putting some rearfill fadeout a little put the soundstage more centered... Try by yourselft. I'm not into sq comp, sq is subjective to your ear imo.

I must admit that a cdt woofer with vc-100 doesn't make a bad rear fill :D

JimJ
12-12-2008, 09:54 PM
80's metal and 70's rock practically require heavy rear
fill to sound right --- mostly for nostalgic purposes.

yes the mullet is optional.

http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/2083/wallofspeakersua1.jpg

The wall of Advents works as well :D


I have removed my rear 6x9s for now and the soundstage sounds "empty", you can blatantly tell that the music is coming from two speakers in the doors.

This is why driver placement/tuning is so critical - the idea is that unless something is at the extreme of the soundstage, it shouldn't be there :) It's hard to describe unless you've experienced it...

CadillacMatt
12-12-2008, 09:57 PM
This is why driver placement/tuning is so critical - the idea is that unless something is at the extreme of the soundstage, it shouldn't be there :) It's hard to describe unless you've experienced it...

You are right I would love to hear a competition-quality SQ setup, I never had the pleasure.

I remember the first time I discovered the "sweet spot", they had some home theater speakers set up at Best Buy and I remember walking by them and kind-of losing my orientation, and when I stepped back and positioned myself right between them the speakers seemed to "disappear"... that's a really cool feeling :)

Xprime4
12-12-2008, 10:01 PM
http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/2083/wallofspeakersua1.jpg

The wall of Advents works as well :D



This is why driver placement/tuning is so critical - the idea is that unless something is at the extreme of the soundstage, it shouldn't be there :) It's hard to describe unless you've experienced it...

I'm pretty sure that would make the house lights dime :D

resevil83
12-12-2008, 10:03 PM
oh' yea I knew that about the NIN album. That is a terrible example for what is actually being applied. You may have caught me using a deceiving best buy tactic to sway someone into buying something they don't need. :) Although, in all seriousness; I have decided that having a four speaker setup (IMO) is a necessity.

mcsoul
12-12-2008, 10:06 PM
http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/2083/wallofspeakersua1.jpg

The wall of Advents works as well :D



I need a towel.:crap::)


Here's a little old stuff I've got lying around:

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/4843/dsc7595oa6.jpg


Believe it or not, those old crappy looking kickers sounds NICE in the Heresy II boxes, cone cover dents and all:

http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/8972/dsc7596kp6.jpg

SSS 18734
12-12-2008, 10:09 PM
Another good reason against rear fill is that it detracts funds from your front stage.

Putting $100 - $150 to get better components or amplifiers for your front stage will have a much bigger effect on your overall sound than simply adding a pair of crappy head-unit powered speakers behind you.

I guess turning off rear fill at first can make it it sound "empty," but let your ears adjust and you'll find that it actually sounds better that way. The idea is to turn your dashboard into a concert venue.

JimJ
12-12-2008, 10:11 PM
Me likey the Carver :p: :)

mcsoul
12-12-2008, 10:12 PM
Me likey the Carver :p: :)

Lot's of interesting buttons and knobs to play with on that model :)

nola504
12-12-2008, 11:03 PM
i personally love rear fill

that's what she said

CadillacMatt
12-12-2008, 11:09 PM
that's what she said

:laugh:

stopdrpnro
12-13-2008, 12:30 AM
i think rear fill is debated so much bc too often it's not setup correctly. at a concert /opera the sound doesn't just travel to your ears and stop it will typically bounce off a wall, someones face, etc not to mention your ears are on the sides of your head not the front ... so you hear sound coming from all around u . i can't live without rear fill but i have 1/10th the power of my fronts on them, i still turn them down -4 dbs, and i time correct them for 9.9ms(still playing around with this) . but makes my sound so much more natural and fills the car with sound.

pjhabit
12-13-2008, 03:29 PM
at a concert /opera the sound doesn't just travel to your ears and stop it will typically bounce off a wall, someones face, etc
Wouldn't the same logic apply to your front speakers?

TIeclipseMOJO
12-13-2008, 03:31 PM
i have them for passengers back there (4 door car), but i have them faded so i cant hear them driving

pjhabit
12-13-2008, 03:40 PM
I guess turning off rear fill at first can make it it sound "empty," but let your ears adjust and you'll find that it actually sounds better that way. The idea is to turn your dashboard into a concert venue.
x2
It may not seem to be an improvement at first because its different than what youre used to. Now that I've grown accustom to a more ideal sound stage, I'll never go back to rear fill.

JrVtecAccord
12-13-2008, 05:28 PM
I've always ran rear fill. I have only owned sedan cars so it has always worked in my situations.

If the rear fill is properly level gained and TA, you can't even tell you are running rears. In my last install it help with some additional mid bass.

I am not sure why so many people always say, just skip it, no need. I understand if you are going to compete in SQ, but do you really think people running RSDs(or equivalent) are going to SQ events.

Louisiana_CRX
12-13-2008, 05:32 PM
I have the rear speakers out of my Civic and Mustang...only subs and front stage

stopdrpnro
12-13-2008, 07:14 PM
Wouldn't the same logic apply to your front speakers?
yes ...except your speakers are typically mounted it your doors firing directly at your ears.

JimJ
12-13-2008, 07:16 PM
yes ...except your speakers are typically mounted it your doors firing directly at your ears.

Reflections are a significant problem in car acoustics...if you aren't getting any, tell me, I want to know how you avoid it, and go off and win a few SQ championships :D