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View Full Version : installed hertz mlk 165's and not impressed



t-money
11-11-2008, 08:12 AM
they sound better than my kicker comps i had but not getting much if any midbass. I usually install everything myself but due to time and the weather i paid a shop to deaden my doors and install the hertz mlk's. I am running them with a audison lrx 2.500(200x2) so theres plenty of power going to them. They sound kind of hollow. What should i do now? i was thinking about calling the shop and making them check things over. Was i expecting too much from these components or what? just a little frustrated since it took me a couple months to put them in and now there not living up to my expectations.Should i stay at the shop and have them take my doors panels off and inspect their job. Its a shop that a lot of guys recommended to me but i just think something is done incorrectly.

forceww
11-11-2008, 08:24 AM
i would check before you do anything else to make sure everything is properly installed

khanhfat
11-11-2008, 09:07 AM
set your tweeters level down if it's too bright, make sure they run 12 AWG wire over your midbass, i ran 14 and it's doesn't have enough power going through.

Another thing is using a deflex speaker pad will help the midbass.

BaaH268
11-11-2008, 09:50 AM
There was a pretty long thread about the mlks were people were running the same amount of power as you and said the same thing. So they put more power to them and they said they kept gettig better and better. I heard a set running 500x2 and they were pretty intense.

t-money
11-11-2008, 10:15 AM
i've been told that the power i have is plenty. I have checked the amp settings and its fine. They ran 14 guage wire to the midbass, they said 12 guage would be overkill. Since i paid i think they should check everything else. I've done plenty of research and i know th ese speakers should have some killer midbass. I personally think its the install and thats shy i want to bring my car back to them

edit: the tweets aren't too bright, although they mounted them right beside the door speakers in the stock location pointed towards the dash

headless
11-11-2008, 11:16 AM
12ga speaker wire to the midbass's would be overkill. 14ga is plenty. speaker wire doesn't need to be thick like power wire to get the job done.

I would check phase to be sure they didn't wire one side up in reverse. What is the rest of your system setup/specs?

wu501
11-11-2008, 11:19 AM
^^agreed

kmanian
11-11-2008, 11:20 AM
check the phase of all the mids, make sure there are no leaks in the baffle, also is the baffle solid? Recheck the Xover points and gain settings. As for the power, your amp should be more than ample to do the job, the guy who said put 500w to them is out of his mind.

chaunb3400
11-11-2008, 11:20 AM
set your tweeters level down if it's too bright, make sure they run 12 AWG wire over your midbass, i ran 14 and it's doesn't have enough power going through.

Another thing is using a deflex speaker pad will help the midbass.

so the op running 14ga instead of 12ga has to do with his lack of midbass:rolleyes:

mlstrass
11-11-2008, 11:24 AM
check the HPF and tweak the EQ settings if the physical install is fine...

kmanian
11-11-2008, 11:24 AM
so the op running 14ga instead of 12ga has to do with his lack of midbass:rolleyes:


yep, it is the new thing, 14ga has way to much voltage drop with 200w, you must use 12ga.:wow::laugh:

kmanian
11-11-2008, 11:25 AM
Basically, I think as it seems others think it is installation error, mor than likely.

Xprime4
11-11-2008, 11:26 AM
big wire is so overrated
http://www.bcae1.com/images/swfs/speakerwireselectorassistant.swf

12ga 10ft @ 200 watt = 196,86 watt to the speakers
14 ga 10ft@ 200 watt = 195.04 watt to the speakers... 1 watt is nothing

check phase

donpisto
11-11-2008, 11:33 AM
There was a pretty long thread about the mlks were people were running the same amount of power as you and said the same thing. So they put more power to them and they said they kept gettig better and better. I heard a set running 500x2 and they were pretty intense.

Wow, talk about inefficiency. I would never want to pick up a pair of mids and pay the price they are if you need to give them a ton of power. My Zapco CK-16.2's were hooked up to a PDX 4.150 but the gain was literally set all the way and they had pretty good midbass just like that. I'm sure if I turned the gain up I would have noticed much better results but if that 500w is true and if 200w isn't doing it then I would find another pair of mids.

t-money
11-11-2008, 01:17 PM
i was thinking they may have wired the mids out of phase. If i switch the + and - on the amp will that fix it or do i need to get at the crossovers to fix it. I just don't beleive i'm getting the midbass i should with these speakers.I turned up a song and they just sounded terrible, i thought i blew them they sounded so bad. So so i need to get at the crossovers to change the phase

BaaH268
11-11-2008, 01:30 PM
Wow, talk about inefficiency. I would never want to pick up a pair of mids and pay the price they are if you need to give them a ton of power. My Zapco CK-16.2's were hooked up to a PDX 4.150 but the gain was literally set all the way and they had pretty good midbass just like that. I'm sure if I turned the gain up I would have noticed much better results but if that 500w is true and if 200w isn't doing it then I would find another pair of mids.

I didn't say they needed to have 500 watts run to them. I just implied that these speakers can handle a lot of power.
If you go back and read that thread, I think it was titled mlks vs something else. There were a few people saying how their mlk's didn't sound up to par to them either and as they added more power the better sounding they got. Yes, that is a lot of power to run to a set of speakers and very few speakers can probably handle that kind of power, but if you have to run more power to make them sound good then thats what yo have to do.
Same thing with a sub. You don't want to get a sub that can handle 1000+watts and get an amp that pushes only 500 watts and say it sounds decent when its not at potential.

lyttleviet
11-11-2008, 01:50 PM
You are correct, they do like more power than 200wrms.. But they should NOT sound hollow with 200wrms... Go get the install checked out bro.

MrDave
11-11-2008, 01:56 PM
The midbass on those was never anything amazing to me. I would just oull off your door panel and check the deadening job they did.

Trey803
11-11-2008, 02:00 PM
any deadener installed?

headless
11-11-2008, 02:05 PM
Change the +/- on the speaker output of the crossover to change phase.

I'd pull off your door panel and check their deadening/sealing job too.

lyttleviet
11-11-2008, 02:14 PM
The midbass on those was never anything amazing to me. I would just oull off your door panel and check the deadening job they did.

Just wondering, what do you consider amazing?

t-money
11-11-2008, 06:42 PM
if i get time i will pull of my door panel, if not, i'm just gonna bring it back to them. I should have done the deadening myself.:verymad:

t-money
11-11-2008, 06:43 PM
Just wondering, what do you consider amazing?

x2, my friend is a dealer and he told me they sound like 8's in the door of his friends bmw.

bamaboy
11-11-2008, 08:49 PM
in the ones we did they sounded very nice

i dont know what your expecting, but most people that listen to them say midbass is excellent, but they're not audiophiles

like said check phase at both amp and xover, check xover point on amp and cd player

you should be pretty impressed with the MLKs imo as long as they are set up right, which seems to be your problem

slam
11-11-2008, 08:50 PM
i have the hsk165 and was not impressed for the money

WKD TC
11-11-2008, 11:30 PM
what amp do you have to our hsk's?

slam
11-11-2008, 11:33 PM
Sundown saz_100.4

and i have 2 sets

WKD TC
11-11-2008, 11:34 PM
well thats your problem sundown amps are horrible.

UNDERGROUND_BUM
11-11-2008, 11:36 PM
well thats your problem sundown amps are horrible.

lol :confused:

slam
11-11-2008, 11:37 PM
thats the third amp i had on it. old skool power 1000 moset was the first... not much of a diff besides it was a lil louder

endofdays89
11-11-2008, 11:39 PM
well thats your problem sundown amps are horrible.

i hope that is sarcasm!!!

WKD TC
11-11-2008, 11:39 PM
why dont u try an audison amp. better crossovers and cleaner power.

UNDERGROUND_BUM
11-11-2008, 11:40 PM
i hope that is sarcasm!!!

as do i ;)

slam
11-11-2008, 11:40 PM
why dont u try an audison amp. better crossovers and cleaner power.

think i rather try different speakers ;) all my mids are boxed up too

WKD TC
11-11-2008, 11:42 PM
alright thats your loss but i know what does speakers can do

Black Truck 10
11-11-2008, 11:43 PM
I somewhat agree with you about the lack of midbass in the Hertz Speakers. Then again im running a SAZ 100.4 on them so im at half the power. However I did deaden my door, and I sealed it up as much as possible. They are better than my previous MB Quart hsk-135 i think they were which midbass was non existent, but I agree with you that for what we read of these speakers we should of expected a bit more midbass. I did turn down the tweeter gain on the crossovers, and that helped a bit. Im still happy with these speakers none the less.

Im subscribing to this so keep us informed on how things turn out.

endofdays89
11-11-2008, 11:43 PM
alright thats your loss but i know what does speakers can do

WTF?

you fail at even making a run on sentence!! LOL

WKD TC
11-11-2008, 11:47 PM
its a f@ck*ng internet chat room not a class room idiot

slam
11-11-2008, 11:47 PM
alright thats your loss but i know what does speakers can do


actually my loss is when i sold my focal utopias.

u must be connected to hertz?

this is my opinion only on the hertz. Ive been in car audio since the late 80's and for the money i spent on the hertz, i expected more

slam
11-11-2008, 11:48 PM
alright thats your loss but i know what does speakers can do


maybe to ur ears. but to someone thats been here for a very very time..... not me sorry

WKD TC
11-11-2008, 11:49 PM
actually i am connected to hertz but i also have other speakers like focal, arc, avi, and others.

90accordman
11-11-2008, 11:49 PM
a buddy of mine whos a member on here had the hsk165 and he didnt like the non midbass of them. He had a shitload of deadener (5 layers of second skin) and they sounded meh . I installed the hsk163L in another forum members install and they sound awesome off the 180ish rms we have on them from a US Amps Merlin 4channel bridged

WKD TC
11-11-2008, 11:50 PM
good choice of speaker.

90accordman
11-11-2008, 11:52 PM
and yea there was a big difference in the sound with the hsk165 on the sundown and the same set on usamps md42

Simek4life
11-12-2008, 12:01 AM
well thats your problem sundown amps are horrible.

Dude, are you kidding me?!? You are a fukin tard. Go kill yourself

slam
11-12-2008, 12:05 AM
everybody is entitled their opinions. why bash someone cause of it?

headless
11-12-2008, 07:18 AM
well, my opinion is that for the price you pay for those MLK's you could spend 20% more and get some really beefy drivers - the Rainbow Power Line CS :) Or go with a set of profi vanadium kick's which everyone can agree do generate exceptional midbass for around the same price.

Just comparing specs though... :)

t-money
11-12-2008, 07:32 AM
i've done plenty of research on the mlk 165's and like i said my friend is a local dealer. I'm just gonna bring the car back(its cold here) and have them re-check everything. I know the mlk's have amazing midbass and i know its not the speakers themselves. So everyone suggesting i go with something else, no thank you, i will work with what i have. I mean they sound **** good, just not the midbass i was expecting.

James Bang
11-12-2008, 11:41 AM
I'm not sure why people are saying - check your phase, check your phase-.... Are they talking about polarity?? Even if both mids have the same polarity, they can still be out of phase, acoustically.

Try track 3 of the IASCA test disc.

James Bang
11-12-2008, 11:44 AM
also... where are the mids being crossed over at? Did I miss that somewhere in the thread?

genxx
11-12-2008, 12:16 PM
I would check the install. The baffle can make a big difference. If they mounted them using 1/4 ABS ect.

I still do not think these are going to provide low powerful shattering midbass like a SLS 8", HAT L8, Rainbow CS, Scan Rev or Illuminator. I don't see these extending down below 60-70hz with authority.

Might also be you do not prefer the sound of the MLK165. As we all know we find speakers we prefer over other's based on what we percieve or a particular sound.

Did you listen to these before you bought them?

I have the MLK165 set laying around but have not played with them yet. Looks like I might have to unbox them and play around with them.

Here is a very good indepth review. This is basically same midbass driver used in both the MLK165 and MLK 2. Tweeter is completely different between the two sets though.

Review from npdang on DIYMA
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11344

Most important note in the above review^^^

So in the end how did it sound? I like the mids very much. Open, well damped, and very smooth top extension out to 10khz. Clarity is up there with the best paper cones... Peerless exclusive, Scan-Revelator, Seas Nextel etc. albeit with a bit more limited dynamic capability. Bass output is good, but a bit weak on low end sensitivity. In a car it should be much better, but expect more of a snappy midbass than a full bodied one such as the PRS.

6spdcoupe
11-13-2008, 09:54 AM
Subscribed out of sheer interest and humor purposes.

donpisto
11-13-2008, 03:03 PM
its a f@ck*ng internet chat room not a class room idiot

Are you representing Hertz with this sort of attitude? Like you said, it's an interner forum and just because you don't agree with someone doesn't mean you have to resort to insulting someone. This is how you lose customers :fyi:

I can attest to the Hi Energy mids lacking midbass. I have heard a set on a DLS A4 and it did not impress me much. They are however, well priced and compared to other components I've heard for that price range better.

James Bang
11-13-2008, 03:46 PM
3 way frontstages are nice.

t-money
11-13-2008, 04:26 PM
i spoke with the shop and i'll be bringing my truck in tommorrow and double checking everything with them.:wow:

donpisto
11-13-2008, 04:34 PM
3 way frontstages are nice.

Indeed. I am leaning towards that route once I have the funds to get my setup going. For now it's stock, soon it's adding a sub, then the full out deadening, kickpods, frontstage, oem integration, etc. I hope OEM integration will work for me.

James Bang
11-13-2008, 04:37 PM
i spoke with the shop and i'll be bringing my truck in tommorrow and double checking everything with them.:wow:

one thing's for sure... they don't like you already.

SHOemup233
11-13-2008, 04:48 PM
well thats your problem sundown amps are horrible.

I don't even think that is a matter of opinion. Sundowns are very solid amps.


why dont u try an audison amp. better crossovers and cleaner power.

Clean power...is clean power. If he isn't clipping, then it is clean power. Just as clean as any other "clean power" from any other amp.


alright thats your loss but i know what does speakers can do

Produce sound?


its a f@ck*ng internet chat room not a class room idiot

I think he realizes that. What it really comes down to is, do you want to be perceived as intelligent, or as a stupid dumb shi t? It is your choice.

When you use correct grammar, and spelling, people perceive you as smarter.

as opposed to meh talkin like dis. Do i ahpear intellegant wen i toyp like dis?

donpisto
11-13-2008, 05:17 PM
When you use correct grammar, and spelling, people perceive you as smarter.

as opposed to meh talkin like dis. Do i ahpear intellegant wen i toyp like dis?

This is some serious Dr. Phil **** right here. Quite true as well, people base their impressions on first impressions and actions, whether or not they may be true.

bigbangtheory
11-13-2008, 08:44 PM
Keep us posted. Kinda curious as to what the problem may be if the phase wasn't messed up or the door was deadened well.

Might be something else with the EQing, good luck!

t-money
11-14-2008, 12:55 AM
one thing's for sure... they don't like you already.

actually i am a very outgoing person. I know the owner of the shop cause he's friends of a friend.

t-money
11-19-2008, 11:05 AM
Well i haven't got a chance to bring my truck back to the shop yet, but i was messing with the gains and the crossover settings and my eq and WOW, these components are the best i've heard yet. I been in car audio since 1986(high school) and i have owned focal, kicker and heard many many more. The midbass is there(haven't got a chance to really test them out yet) but the midrange and highs are phenomenal. Very crisp and detailed. I actually couldn't beleive my ears on the way to work. I will still be bringing my truck to the shop so i can see the work they did on my doors, i would do it myslef but its very cold and i don't have a garage. All in all these hertz mlk's live up the the hype.

6spdcoupe
11-19-2008, 11:26 AM
These are the best components you have heard since 1986? Im gonna guess (in a non sarcastic way) you havent heard alot of upper tier products.

t-money
11-19-2008, 11:52 AM
These are the best components you have heard since 1986? Im gonna guess (in a non sarcastic way) you havent heard alot of upper tier products.

depends on what you call upper tier. I heard most of the focals, kickers,jl audios. I haven't heard cdt's, or rainbows. So i guess i haven't heard a wide variety of comps, but from what i've heard these are the best. Unfortunately i don't go to sq comps and i don't just go out and auditions components, so from the installs i've heard/had their the best.

James Bang
11-19-2008, 11:56 AM
depends on what you call upper tier. I heard most of the focals, kickers,jl audios. I haven't heard cdt's, or rainbows. So i guess i haven't heard a wide variety of comps, but from what i've heard these are the best. Unfortunately i don't go to sq comps and i don't just go out and auditions components, so from the installs i've heard/had their the best.

you proved his point.

t-money
11-19-2008, 02:07 PM
you proved his point.

that's fine with me.:rolleyes:

James Bang
11-19-2008, 02:41 PM
:rolleyes:

khanhfat
11-21-2008, 11:57 AM
could be the wiring tweeter and woofer get mixed up . That's what happened with me, I switched the wires and voila . works!

joshualittle
11-21-2008, 06:33 PM
Glad to hear your in love with your hertz mlk's. I'll be getting mine in a couple weeks.

avs20
11-21-2008, 08:14 PM
Im running the HSK 163 3 ways...and I would have to agree, the midbass is pretty bad. I said before that the midbass was great, but that was with the RE midbass' in the doors, not the Hertz. I put the Hertz in and had virtually no midbass.
The RE's are back in the door...and they have awesome midbass.

01 S 10
11-21-2008, 08:25 PM
could be the wiring tweeter and woofer get mixed up . That's what happened with me, I switched the wires and voila . works!

you did use 8awg wire for the tweeters right? since 14awg isnt enough to power the mids properly like you were saying earlier in this thread so you had to use 12awg... i figured 8awg on the tweeters would work for you, maybe try 4awg. I have 1/0 if you want some ?....




:rolleyes:

kentb
11-21-2008, 08:31 PM
maybe you should try and put the mids on a sealed enclosure instead of IB

slam
11-21-2008, 08:38 PM
maybe you should try and put the mids on a sealed enclosure instead of IB

mines sealed and i still give it a failing grade

lyttleviet
11-22-2008, 02:12 PM
I loved mine when I had them, but since, I have replaced them with a more affordable Morel Dotech Ovation 6 and will never look back.

iovi66
06-11-2009, 05:24 AM
11-11-08...so too late to probably reply and mean anything...
No midbass in MLK 165's?!... Well, who installed these, and what brackets were built, and what sound-deadining was done?... because I have these in my car and the mid bass, and even real bass down to 70 Hz is very substantial and real, so..

Please do not "diss" this speaker system for it is very accurate and real, and given the proper amplification is among the best, and of course the Morel and many others can be better, but it still is very good and among the best so again...

Installation is always the key, so... My installer is Jeremy at Advanced Audio Designs in Sharon, MA, and this guy and his people can flat out reconstruct your car to make it sound right, if you and they want, so, please realize that installation in car audio IS EVERYTHING...equipment is certainly important, but please realize that installion is what makes or breaks your system and your equipment.

My 165's can not even realize their full potential as the doors they are in, my Ford Fusion, need work, and when giving them strong low frequencies the doors just can't handle it (just try Michel Jackson's "Billie Jean" on his "One's" CD',) I can have the doors redone by one of, if not the best, installer around anywhere on the planet, Jeremy at Advanced Audio Designs in Sharon, MA, but after $15k in a $19k car I'm about done! But PUHLEASSE, anyone saying these mid-bass drivers are deficient either have no ears, improper accompanying equipment, or knowledge, or... I just don't know, 'cause these drivers rock, and go very low.

If you want to judge, the rest of my system is Nakamichi CD700II, Alpine Processor and Controller (PXA-H701, RUX-C701), 2 Audison LRx 2.9 amps driving the Hertz MLK 165's in the front doors, and a Hertz ML 2500 subwoofer (with Jermey's custom built sealed box) in the trunk, with Pear Cable Bosc RCA's and Pear Bosc Speaker Cable and Pear Comice Amp Wire, and to ensure proper power supply, an Exide Orbital Purple Haze XCD battery. Sound deadening in the front doors with Cascade Audio Engineering, and the trunk spaces done with Hushmat. So, if you are not impressed with the Hertz MLK 165's, I have to say that either your system and/or install does not do them the proper justice they deserve, or, dare I incur your potential wrath, you have no clue or ear as to what quality car audio is!

Black Truck 10
06-11-2009, 11:51 AM
11-11-08...so too late to probably reply and mean anything...
No midbass in MLK 165's?!... Well, who installed these, and what brackets were built, and what sound-deadining was done?... because I have these in my car and the mid bass, and even real bass down to 70 Hz is very substantial and real, so..

Please do not "diss" this speaker system for it is very accurate and real, and given the proper amplification is among the best, and of course the Morel and many others can be better, but it still is very good and among the best so again...

Installation is always the key, so... My installer is Jeremy at Advanced Audio Designs in Sharon, MA, and this guy and his people can flat out reconstruct your car to make it sound right, if you and they want, so, please realize that installation in car audio IS EVERYTHING...equipment is certainly important, but please realize that installion is what makes or breaks your system and your equipment.

My 165's can not even realize their full potential as the doors they are in, my Ford Fusion, need work, and when giving them strong low frequencies the doors just can't handle it (just try Michel Jackson's "Billie Jean" on his "One's" CD',) I can have the doors redone by one of, if not the best, installer around anywhere on the planet, Jeremy at Advanced Audio Designs in Sharon, MA, but after $15k in a $19k car I'm about done! But PUHLEASSE, anyone saying these mid-bass drivers are deficient either have no ears, improper accompanying equipment, or knowledge, or... I just don't know, 'cause these drivers rock, and go very low.

If you want to judge, the rest of my system is Nakamichi CD700II, Alpine Processor and Controller (PXA-H701, RUX-C701), 2 Audison LRx 2.9 amps driving the Hertz MLK 165's in the front doors, and a Hertz ML 2500 subwoofer (with Jermey's custom built sealed box) in the trunk, with Pear Cable Bosc RCA's and Pear Bosc Speaker Cable and Pear Comice Amp Wire, and to ensure proper power supply, an Exide Orbital Purple Haze XCD battery. Sound deadening in the front doors with Cascade Audio Engineering, and the trunk spaces done with Hushmat. So, if you are not impressed with the Hertz MLK 165's, I have to say that either your system and/or install does not do them the proper justice they deserve, or, dare I incur your potential wrath, you have no clue or ear as to what quality car audio is!

To sum it up, no one is as cool or spends as much money as this guy!

6spdcoupe
06-11-2009, 12:49 PM
11-11-08...so too late to probably reply and mean anything...
No midbass in MLK 165's?!... Well, who installed these, and what brackets were built, and what sound-deadining was done?... because I have these in my car and the mid bass, and even real bass down to 70 Hz is very substantial and real, so..

Please do not "diss" this speaker system for it is very accurate and real, and given the proper amplification is among the best, and of course the Morel and many others can be better, but it still is very good and among the best so again...

Installation is always the key, so... My installer is Jeremy at Advanced Audio Designs in Sharon, MA, and this guy and his people can flat out reconstruct your car to make it sound right, if you and they want, so, please realize that installation in car audio IS EVERYTHING...equipment is certainly important, but please realize that installion is what makes or breaks your system and your equipment.

My 165's can not even realize their full potential as the doors they are in, my Ford Fusion, need work, and when giving them strong low frequencies the doors just can't handle it (just try Michel Jackson's "Billie Jean" on his "One's" CD',) I can have the doors redone by one of, if not the best, installer around anywhere on the planet, Jeremy at Advanced Audio Designs in Sharon, MA, but after $15k in a $19k car I'm about done! But PUHLEASSE, anyone saying these mid-bass drivers are deficient either have no ears, improper accompanying equipment, or knowledge, or... I just don't know, 'cause these drivers rock, and go very low.

If you want to judge, the rest of my system is Nakamichi CD700II, Alpine Processor and Controller (PXA-H701, RUX-C701), 2 Audison LRx 2.9 amps driving the Hertz MLK 165's in the front doors, and a Hertz ML 2500 subwoofer (with Jermey's custom built sealed box) in the trunk, with Pear Cable Bosc RCA's and Pear Bosc Speaker Cable and Pear Comice Amp Wire, and to ensure proper power supply, an Exide Orbital Purple Haze XCD battery. Sound deadening in the front doors with Cascade Audio Engineering, and the trunk spaces done with Hushmat. So, if you are not impressed with the Hertz MLK 165's, I have to say that either your system and/or install does not do them the proper justice they deserve, or, dare I incur your potential wrath, you have no clue or ear as to what quality car audio is!

Interesting, yet still entertaining. :)

t-money
06-11-2009, 02:07 PM
11-11-08...so too late to probably reply and mean anything...
No midbass in MLK 165's?!... Well, who installed these, and what brackets were built, and what sound-deadining was done?... because I have these in my car and the mid bass, and even real bass down to 70 Hz is very substantial and real, so..

Please do not "diss" this speaker system for it is very accurate and real, and given the proper amplification is among the best, and of course the Morel and many others can be better, but it still is very good and among the best so again...

Installation is always the key, so... My installer is Jeremy at Advanced Audio Designs in Sharon, MA, and this guy and his people can flat out reconstruct your car to make it sound right, if you and they want, so, please realize that installation in car audio IS EVERYTHING...equipment is certainly important, but please realize that installion is what makes or breaks your system and your equipment.

My 165's can not even realize their full potential as the doors they are in, my Ford Fusion, need work, and when giving them strong low frequencies the doors just can't handle it (just try Michel Jackson's "Billie Jean" on his "One's" CD',) I can have the doors redone by one of, if not the best, installer around anywhere on the planet, Jeremy at Advanced Audio Designs in Sharon, MA, but after $15k in a $19k car I'm about done! But PUHLEASSE, anyone saying these mid-bass drivers are deficient either have no ears, improper accompanying equipment, or knowledge, or... I just don't know, 'cause these drivers rock, and go very low.

If you want to judge, the rest of my system is Nakamichi CD700II, Alpine Processor and Controller (PXA-H701, RUX-C701), 2 Audison LRx 2.9 amps driving the Hertz MLK 165's in the front doors, and a Hertz ML 2500 subwoofer (with Jermey's custom built sealed box) in the trunk, with Pear Cable Bosc RCA's and Pear Bosc Speaker Cable and Pear Comice Amp Wire, and to ensure proper power supply, an Exide Orbital Purple Haze XCD battery. Sound deadening in the front doors with Cascade Audio Engineering, and the trunk spaces done with Hushmat. So, if you are not impressed with the Hertz MLK 165's, I have to say that either your system and/or install does not do them the proper justice they deserve, or, dare I incur your potential wrath, you have no clue or ear as to what quality car audio is!

wow, i thought this thread was already resolved. I have them installed correctly and they sound wonderful. Thank you for your response i couldn't have done it without you.:rolleyes:

Bass911
06-11-2009, 05:11 PM
I loved mine when I had them, but since, I have replaced them with a more affordable Morel Dotech Ovation 6 and will never look back.

I wish I could hear those Morel cranked. The dealer here refuses to turn them up on his display. At the low level he played them at, the Hertz sounded better. He had the Supremos hooked up also, but refused to boost the highs or the volume. I don't know how he is selling them giving people those weak auditions?

headless
06-12-2009, 08:40 AM
it sounds to me like jeremy is a da mn fine salesman, if he milked you for 15k, sold you wires that retail for obscene prices like 200$ for a 10foot pair of RCA's or 7.50 per foot of 12ga speaker wire, didn't even deaden your doors to the point that they can handle the MLK165 woofers, and then managed to convince you that it was a good deal.

got-one-eight
06-12-2009, 09:24 AM
I wish I could hear those Morel cranked. The dealer here refuses to turn them up on his display. At the low level he played them at, the Hertz sounded better. He had the Supremos hooked up also, but refused to boost the highs or the volume. I don't know how he is selling them giving people those weak auditions?

I have a local Morel Dealer and he told me ppl are blowing the mids on them left and right. I was trying to go Morel and sell my Focal and he was trying to convince me to keep the Focal that I didnt even buy from him and just play with the tune. Surprised he didn't try to sell me the Morel I was interested in. One think the installer told me about the MLK 165 is that he didn't like their midbass.

iovi66
06-29-2009, 04:49 AM
just saw these responses and thought some things should be said so...

generally, sorry if a few of you think I'm trying to say my system and installer are so great and that we are whatever... just thought I'd defend the mlk165's one night when I was just seeing what was said. about them as I was thinking about my investment..

maybe I don't have the experience and backgrounds to measure up to the supercritical posters I have encountered on these numerous car audio sites, sorry, thought this was about enjoying car audio and having fun... but maybe some of us are really trying to be better than others or satisfy our egos, I can assure you I am not, I was foolish to waste the money I did... but I do so enjoy my car sounds... so many better systems out there than mine... I'm sure many of yours are, including my detractors here.

but let me tell you "headless" Jeremy didn't SELL ME anything, just gave me great advice, installation and service, he didn't "charge"me $15k, my equipment cost was the majority of the purchase and his labor was expensive but worth every penny, but I'm sure I don't have to tell you that, because I'm sure no matter how we may differ in opinion, we do agree that excellent install is important, right?... I purchased all my Pear Cable separately and paid nowhere near the prices you mentioned, so get your facts straight before you post your condescending opinions, but thats ok, this is what these forums are about, and you know what they say about opinions, and maybe you are one too, maybe not, I don't know, your fellow posters may though, as I don't post here often, as I sure YOU know, so you can just take it for whatever it's worth.. and take what I say as just another car audio enthusiast... as far as didn't deaden the doors enough... you are speaking without knowing the facts.. as when I picked the car up he TOLD me the doors needed work, and when he told me what it would cost I declined... I still can't afford to spend more, but I realize his advice was correct, so your comments should have been more to the line of did he offer to do further work on the doors?... but no, you chose to bring out the insults, so I can only infer your motives and character to be judgemental and lacking in any interest in positive discourse with a desire to be negative and critical to further your own agenda whatever it may be..

t-money....thanks, I think they sound outstanding as well, I had the Focals and replaced them with the Hertz, and have worked in the audio industry for years and have heard many speaker systems, and these do sound great.

to blacktruck ... you think I'm trying to be cool here?! wow, I may have some problems but posting on car audio forums to be cool is certainly not one of them, I guess if you copy my post and respond as you did you possibly have "feeling cool" problems yourself, so if you have nothing else of substance to add just stay silent. what was it you sai?... "To sum it up, no one is as cool or spends as much money as this guy!"... Lots of folks spend way more than I did... How much did you spend? How much does the average poster here spend? How much would you like to spend? Actually what does it matter? Sorry if you can't add anything for additional discussion instead of insults, maybe you're a frustrated wannabee, maybe not...


for your information I'm about as cool as lukewarm water, I know it, the American people know it, so again, if your comments on my post are continually similar please spare us all the derisive commen and post no further here..

there you go, just another's opinion, the mkl165's are an excellent speaker system...

but if you want to disagree that's fine too, but do so with articulable facts, and not the aforementioned attacks on my or my installer's characters or motives....



t-money

headless
06-29-2009, 09:47 AM
*golf clap*

I didn't say you spent that much on those wires; i simply listed their retail values. If jeremy didn't try to sell you on that crap, but you bought it anyway without his advising it, then i've got a much higher opinion of him. And a lower one of you. Especially if you have been involved in the audio industry for years :rolleyes:

I do agree that the install is extremely important. Much more important than silver cables, for example.

If you didn't spend retail prices on the pear cables, where did you spend all of your money? You say you've got 15k of audio in the car...

Now i'm not sure what real world prices are on some of your equipment, so lets go with retail prices for ALL of your stuff. I'm sure you got much better deals than full retail price, right?

I mean, just throwing out super high numbers for your equipment, we've got....
LRx 2.9's; what, 800$ each? 1600
nakamichi deck - 1200? 1300? Lets go 1300
PXA-HX701 + RUX-C701 - 600? 700? Lets go with 700.
ML2500 - 600? Couldn't find a price on this one.
Battery - 200$?
1600+1300+700+600+200 = 4400$. Deadening....600$ of deadening? Not if your doors aren't good to go with MLK's - say, 400$ of deadening plus 600$ for your subwoofer box, now we're at 5400$, being extremely generous on prices for just about everything (dunno about the ml2500 price).

If you paid retail for everything, then did your install cost 9600$? Or did your cables cost several thousand dollars? If you didn't pay retail on all your equipment...where the hell did the other thousands of dollars go?

Black Truck 10
06-29-2009, 08:57 PM
just saw these responses and thought some things should be said so...

generally, sorry if a few of you think I'm trying to say my system and installer are so great and that we are whatever... just thought I'd defend the mlk165's one night when I was just seeing what was said. about them as I was thinking about my investment..

maybe I don't have the experience and backgrounds to measure up to the supercritical posters I have encountered on these numerous car audio sites, sorry, thought this was about enjoying car audio and having fun... but maybe some of us are really trying to be better than others or satisfy our egos, I can assure you I am not, I was foolish to waste the money I did... but I do so enjoy my car sounds... so many better systems out there than mine... I'm sure many of yours are, including my detractors here.

but let me tell you "headless" Jeremy didn't SELL ME anything, just gave me great advice, installation and service, he didn't "charge"me $15k, my equipment cost was the majority of the purchase and his labor was expensive but worth every penny, but I'm sure I don't have to tell you that, because I'm sure no matter how we may differ in opinion, we do agree that excellent install is important, right?... I purchased all my Pear Cable separately and paid nowhere near the prices you mentioned, so get your facts straight before you post your condescending opinions, but thats ok, this is what these forums are about, and you know what they say about opinions, and maybe you are one too, maybe not, I don't know, your fellow posters may though, as I don't post here often, as I sure YOU know, so you can just take it for whatever it's worth.. and take what I say as just another car audio enthusiast... as far as didn't deaden the doors enough... you are speaking without knowing the facts.. as when I picked the car up he TOLD me the doors needed work, and when he told me what it would cost I declined... I still can't afford to spend more, but I realize his advice was correct, so your comments should have been more to the line of did he offer to do further work on the doors?... but no, you chose to bring out the insults, so I can only infer your motives and character to be judgemental and lacking in any interest in positive discourse with a desire to be negative and critical to further your own agenda whatever it may be..

t-money....thanks, I think they sound outstanding as well, I had the Focals and replaced them with the Hertz, and have worked in the audio industry for years and have heard many speaker systems, and these do sound great.

to blacktruck ... you think I'm trying to be cool here?! wow, I may have some problems but posting on car audio forums to be cool is certainly not one of them, I guess if you copy my post and respond as you did you possibly have "feeling cool" problems yourself, so if you have nothing else of substance to add just stay silent. what was it you sai?... "To sum it up, no one is as cool or spends as much money as this guy!"... Lots of folks spend way more than I did... How much did you spend? How much does the average poster here spend? How much would you like to spend? Actually what does it matter? Sorry if you can't add anything for additional discussion instead of insults, maybe you're a frustrated wannabee, maybe not...


for your information I'm about as cool as lukewarm water, I know it, the American people know it, so again, if your comments on my post are continually similar please spare us all the derisive commen and post no further here..

there you go, just another's opinion, the mkl165's are an excellent speaker system...

but if you want to disagree that's fine too, but do so with articulable facts, and not the aforementioned attacks on my or my installer's characters or motives....



t-money

To sum it up, no one is as cool or spends money like this guy


But in all honesty I spent about 2200ish I guess and I did the entire install my self.
I know im awesome, like there is just no doubt about that from this side of the internet. America knows im awesome so that should clear that up also.

iovi66
06-30-2009, 04:45 AM
hey blacktruck10...instead of my wasting space copying and pasting YOUR absurd post as you do mine, I'll just say that YOU ARE AWESOME, NO DOUBT, and can I please attend your COOL SCHOOL, I'll pay anything you say so maybe one day I can be AS COOL AS YOU!... again if you have nothing of substance to say please just SHUTUP... we all know, sorry, ALL AMERICA, knows how AWESOME you are, so why don't you just go ... does that clear that up? and please no more posts, if you have anything to say email me and we'll go from there...

headless.... "golf clap", please, how infantile, maybe that snide comment says something about your character and personality, but please forgive me, I was just trying to enjoy some car audio talk and not initiate the wrath of some desperate sniper hiding in the car audio internet woods just waiting for someone to ambush with their superior experience and knowledge...

but since you've continued the discussion I will add information that I did not initially deem necessary as I did not think that all of the facts would have to be revealed to justify and/or support my claims of enjoying my speakers and my system, and I would like those people who have read this post with positive interest to have the answers to your comments.... thank you to those folks...

so here is how your numbers work out... LRx 2.9's close, Nak deck, off a few hundred, and oh yeah I did buy an extra year's warranty, you probably will think I'm even more of a chump for that too (yeah you're right everyone selling sees me coming..), the alpine processor and controller close, the ML2500 close (why couldn't you find a price on this one given your knowledge and abilities?..), the battery off by around $100. By the way where were your numbers on the MLK165's which is what this post was really about?! Or does that not even matter to you now? Did I forget to mention that these are really an excellent sounding speaker system? I sure wish PSB would manufacture car speakers, that is what I have for home speakers, care to take another shot, just giving you the opening! Want to know how much I paid for them too?

So, for whatever its worth, I should say before you denigrate a product line like Pear cable, please learn something about the line, I said I had Bosc interconnects and speaker cable, not the RCA silver Comice, so obviously you have an anti-Pear bias, so please take that out elsewhere as I have never felt any high-end cable line was worth the price asked, but I do believe that cables are components in a system and not accesories, and that one should have high-quality cables with high-quality equipment to maximize the systems potential. I don't really think the $20 burger in an expensive downtown restaurant is really worth the money, but I still realize how good it is when I eat it. And yes, my installer never would say it directly, but he did intimate that the cables were of high quality but probably not worth the money, but you know, I still don't regret paying what I did for them, and he gladly and professionaly terminated them and installed them.

I also had to pay for several labor hours (yes very expensive) for correction of a previous botched install, and rewiring of the entire car, due to getting ripped off and mistreated by a previous installer who is now out of business. You can estimate the cost, what do you charge per hour for your labor cost?

And there was also the sale and install of the Clifford alarm system. And there was also the rental car charge of a few hundred dollars while this all transpired. So now when you add these up does this come close to the figure I mentioned I invested? Sorry if my figure included these additional items that I did not specify, but I did not think I would be so financially analyzed to justify the system's cost, my mistake. Again, I thought we were just enjoying our car audio here and relating our experiences. Seems I was wrong, at least where you were involved.

I never mentioned a figure to be impressive, only to show the seriousness of my endeavor, and certainly we all know that most high-end car audio systems NOT INSTALLED BY THE OWNER like the AWESOME blacktruck, cost a pretty penny for a real professional installer to install, and worth every penny I have to unfortunately say as the original reason for my post was not only to state that my experiences with this speaker system were antithetical to the person "not impressed", and that quality install was of paramount importance, and I only mentioned the system components and their cost as most of the posts I've read on these sites always listed their systems' specifics.. Most high-end systems I've heard, or read about cost significantly more than mine, so I know that blacktrucks $2200 is all that is needed, so the rest of us are really just people taken and ripped off, right blacktruck?

Anyway, again, for all that may still care, I feel the Hertz MLK 165's, when properly installed, and driven with the right amplifier, are an outstanding sounding component speaker system, excellent, clean felt mid-bass, with even low frequencies accurately reproduced, tweeters with excellent definition on the high end, great imaging, accuracy, and definitely a system overall less bright and harsh and more detailed than so many others I have heard. Again, just my opinion, which is the only reason I originially responded, even though others here have intimated my motives were otherwise. Again, only my opinion, and we all know about opinions...

Hope everyone enjoys there car tunes as I do!

FJF
06-30-2009, 07:38 AM
...instead of my wasting space copying and pasting YOUR absurd post as you do mine...

I don't think you understand. On discussion forums, quoting relevant text in one's reply lets the participants know who's being spoken to and the exact issues being addressed. It's an integral part of forum culture and it's been this way since before the web as we know it ever existed, and for a good reason. It's all about streamlining the flow of communication.

Clearly, you're new to all this and you probably don't realize how your comments are being read. As you seem like a nice man, please take this in the best way possible and stop feeding this thread. Nothing will ever get resolved and your point will never be understood in light of the rest of the text. Ask yourself if it really matters. Good luck. :)

iovi66
07-02-2009, 06:14 AM
FJF..

thanks for your thoughts, and you certainly are right.. it does not really matter... these are only typed words on an internet page... I don't really care if anything gets "resolved" here, and of course outside of words it does not "really matter"...no doubt, but these words must mean something as you, I, and others, have taken the time, and exerted the efforts to express these thoughts so I will continue as briefly as possible... terseness not being a trait of mine, to my eternal regret... You may not realize, but I interpret your response that I am a nice person to be truly meant, but your additional expressed sentiments seem somewhat condescending.. Um, yes I understand the"quoting relevant text" in one's reply on discussion forums, but I always thought it was the lazyman's way to try and say a lot with only a few words by relying on others' statements, and sometimes it works, othertimes its just short, easy comments.. sorry, you described it as "streamlining the flow of communications", guess one could look at it that way...and yes,I didn't see the response from my two previous detractors as I thought they would just live for their opportunity to further "tune me up" after my continued comments, as now they have their next chance to further their assault... (or maybe they just didn't yet have their chance to respond and their response(s) is (are) forthcoming). So we'll wait for that. Please respond if and when you see fit! But the comments after the reposting were so inconsequential that the reposting became only self-serving.

And with all due respect, I'm 52 and have been "computing" on various forums and threads such as this since I first took "computer science" my freshman year in 1975 when we were required to write our programs on punch cards... many, many years ago. so please realize that although I may not regularly participate in you and your brethren's forum here, but I'm no idiot or virgin. But I do appreciate your respect. But why is it so many people here want disputatious banter instead of mere reflection and response to positive personal comments on their systems?

..and sorry I don't understand your comment..and "stop feeding this thread"...? what does that mean?...am I insulting you and your fellow posters by continuing to post, and with what I have said by my last post, and/or what I continue to say whatever it is I am saying?... if this "thread" is so dead and forgotten why would you continue to read it and take exception and ask me to "stop feeding this thread?!"... is that some kind of insult I am perpetrating on you and your fellow posters by continuing to post responses? If so, I am sorry, not intended. But that seems so unnecessary if this thread is "dead".. right?! If that is the case then everyone here should just stop posting responses. Remember we did have one poster in agreement with my thesis, that is he/she enjoyed these speakers and was glad I said what I did... But if everyone else should just ignore it, including yourself then why are we still "talking". Maybe you are right, I really don't get you folks, as you claim to want intelligent discourse, but then seem to shy away from it when it is offered, as it has been here.

...but, please realize that although I may seem virginal in posting to you, as you seem to think I can't understand how important "quoting relevant text" is, but this poster's responses are so absurd that I must take exception and did...sorry, guess my point will possibly never be understood by you if you don't understand why I'm so baffled by how ridiculous his responses were... but sorry again, really don't get that as his response was either meant to be comical, or was insulting and ridiculous, maybe you're right and I'm missing the/his point... my only point was I like these speakers.. how difficult is that to understand by anyone here?! And if one wants to understand the thread, follow it from the beginning by actually reading it, another example of our country's populace becoming so intellectually lazy that if it is not laid out immediately with the reprint of the original comments, then they can't be bothered to read fully and comprehend the whole situation.

FJF
07-02-2009, 06:40 AM
Well, I tried. :banghead:

When I was in college, there was a mentally challenged young man named Larry who'd hang around the campus. Some would entertain themselves by throwing a penny and watching Larry chase it. I felt bad for him and one day pulled Larry aside and explained that folks are simply ridiculing him by tossing the coins. In the middle of the conversation, a penny rolled by and Larry took off after it. As I stood watching the scene develop, deeply disturbed by the events and Larry's actions, I decided to throw a penny, myself.

Enjoy your stay here. I'm sure we'll talk again.

iovi66
07-02-2009, 08:06 AM
hey FJF thanks for trying...this is Larry's cousin, he told me about you and he is grateful for your compassion. His hanging around Faber College with you was the highlight of his life! How propitious we would "hook-up"! So glad you understand the depth of my disturbance.

Thanks again for your condescension. I guess I just don't measure up to the standards here with caraudio.com's message board's posters, but I am enjoying my stay here because of the contuining emergence of prescient people such as yourself. Some of you folks here seem to really know me and what I am about and are really enjoying my absurdity.

Don't know though, should I have copied your last post BEFORE I replied so everyone would understand what we were talking about?! I guess that was your main point in the last post, but I assume I was too obtuse to understand. Pitching pennies analogy?! Are you serious

Again, what did I do or say for you to intimate that I am like your retard acquaintance Larry? Just for my information...

Aren't you glad were "talking" again!

FJF
07-02-2009, 08:53 AM
Again, what did I do or say for you to intimate that I am like your retard acquaintance Larry? Just for my information...

You once again missed the point in its entirety. Unfortunate, really.

Regardless, as you've completely misinterpreted all of my comments, writing a bizarre, steam of consciousness onslaught of mindless drivel in reply, you'll have to forgive me for wondering whether your current actions are driven by the presence of an extra chromosome. I can appreciate your vast computer experience that paints you as an utterly clueless noob in practice, and marvel at your ability to shy away from established standards in hopes of illustrating yourself as an even bigger imbecile than initially suspected. An behalf of the group, I thank you for providing us with amusing journey.


Aren't you glad were "talking" again!

...I have a few minutes to kill.

got-one-eight
07-02-2009, 12:19 PM
Larry here... glad to know everyone is doing fine. I have been collecting those pennies for bout 10 years now and have invested the $236,555.17 into a small company that has grown to a net worth of about 4.2 billion. Now that I am 2/3 owner of this company things are going pretty well for me. No more chasing pennies just hookers and hotrods. And you guys thought I was the simple one? :crazy:

FJF
07-02-2009, 08:47 PM
Larry here... glad to know everyone is doing fine. I have been collecting those pennies for bout 10 years now and have invested the $236,555.17 into a small company that has grown to a net worth of about 4.2 billion. Now that I am 2/3 owner of this company things are going pretty well for me. No more chasing pennies just hookers and hotrods. And you guys thought I was the simple one? :crazy:

< grin> You haven't looked at my profile, have you? This happened a lot more than 10 years ago. Larry came from a very wealthy family. His folks made a substantial gift to the university. In turn, the school allowed him to hang around the campus and audit an occasional class. He was a sweet guy and I truly hope that he's doing well.

power-fanatic07
07-02-2009, 08:51 PM
12ga speaker wire to the midbass's would be overkill. 14ga is plenty. speaker wire doesn't need to be thick like power wire to get the job done.

I would check phase to be sure they didn't wire one side up in reverse. What is the rest of your system setup/specs?


this right here

lh0628
07-03-2009, 11:39 AM
Just from personal experience, my HSK-165 has very good midbass.