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zeed
06-10-2008, 05:42 AM
To all Rainbow guru,

I have a question about Rainbow CS 265 Profi Vanadium Phase Plugs.

I can't find exactly same model on Rainbow web site. I can find it only from this web site below.

http://www.speedsound.com/product.asp?specific=jojnemkqq

Is this one is an old model? What exactly line is it? I have plan to run it with iPaul 4.300 (90 rms per channel), is it gonna be enough power?

Thanks

FoxPro5
06-10-2008, 01:03 PM
oops

FoxPro5
06-10-2008, 01:09 PM
http://195.243.203.21/rainbow/index.aspx?pm=1261133&lan=ENG

redcalimp5
06-10-2008, 02:21 PM
To all Rainbow guru,

I have a question about Rainbow CS 265 Profi Vanadium Phase Plugs.

I can't find exactly same model on Rainbow web site. I can find it only from this web site below.

http://www.speedsound.com/product.asp?specific=jojnemkqq

Is this one is an old model? What exactly line is it? I have plan to run it with iPaul 4.300 (90 rms per channel), is it gonna be enough power?

Thanks


Yep, those are the right speakers.......and 90 watts a side will be good for those, but you'd be better off packing up the Rainbow crossovers and running active 90X4 to each mid and tweet. If you need to run passive, and want to use that amp, I'd bridge it to give them 180watts a side. They can take it if you adjust the gains accordingly.

and I'm not a guru of anything.....but I HAVE owned that set before. :)

zeed
06-10-2008, 02:43 PM
Bridge gives 270W a channel. I feel like it is too much.

redcalimp5
06-10-2008, 03:04 PM
Bridge gives 270W a channel. I feel like it is too much.

Wow, yeah, that would be pushing it passive. You can do that and have a nice amount of headroom, but you just need to be really careful with your gain settings.

FoxPro5
06-10-2008, 04:38 PM
Bridge gives 270W a channel. I feel like it is too much.

I highly doubt it. 270 watts when?? I had over 250 wrms on my Kick Bass drivers alone.

Forget setting your gains. Concentrate on how to use your volume control on your HU, instead. Nobody can tell you how much power is enough or too much unless they know HOW you use that power. Blanket statements FTL.

zeed
06-10-2008, 04:55 PM
Anyway, I would like to run it passive because my gf uses this car a lot and she can blow anything in few second. (e.g. I put new rims on and she hit a curb on first day).

Also, I need power to the rear speakers as well. I don't wanna put two amps in this car because I need trunk space.

The reason I pick iPaul is I like the look and it will make a whole system "Rainbow". If it does not work, I can pick another amp. Choices are below.

Should I just get JL 450/4 (150 RMS) or may be Audison Vrx 4.300 (110 RMS) instead? I prefer SQ more than SPL.

redcalimp5
06-10-2008, 05:07 PM
I highly doubt it. 270 watts when?? I had over 250 wrms on my Kick Bass drivers alone.

Forget setting your gains. Concentrate on how to use your volume control on your HU, instead. Nobody can tell you how much power is enough or too much unless they know HOW you use that power. Blanket statements FTL.

Fox, I KNOW you've been doing the car audio thing for a while, but you're saying essentially that setting your gains correctly, either by ear, or by a DMM isn't important, and that you should just forget about it and use your volume control?? I'm really surprised someone with as much experience as you have with this stuff would say to 'forget setting your gains'. It's easy for someone to clip and/or burn up their speakers if the gain isn't set correctly. :confused:

redcalimp5
06-10-2008, 05:09 PM
Anyway, I would like to run it passive because my gf uses this car a lot and she can blow anything in few second. (e.g. I put new rims on and she hit a curb on first day).

Also, I need power to the rear speakers as well. I don't wanna put two amps in this car because I need trunk space.

The reason I pick iPaul is I like the look and it will make a whole system "Rainbow". If it does not work, I can pick another amp. Choices are below.

Should I just get JL 450/4 (150 RMS) or may be Audison Vrx 4.300 (110 RMS) instead? I prefer SQ more than SPL.

zeed, from either of those two amp choices, I'd go with the JL 450/4 for what you're trying to accomplish. the 150wx2 would be good for the phase plugs being run passive up front, and the 75x2 would be enough for most rear fill speakers.

It would do nicely in your girlfriend's setup.

FoxPro5
06-11-2008, 04:23 PM
Fox, I KNOW you've been doing the car audio thing for a while, but you're saying essentially that setting your gains correctly, either by ear, or by a DMM isn't important, and that you should just forget about it and use your volume control?? I'm really surprised someone with as much experience as you have with this stuff would say to 'forget setting your gains'. It's easy for someone to clip and/or burn up their speakers if the gain isn't set correctly. :confused:

A lot of guys on the net are essentially bewildered with the gain pentameter on their amps. On this forum alone, there must be 1 new post about it daily. My suggestion is to know the full potential if the system and put the gain of the amp in perspective. The suggestion "just set your gains correctly" is futile in my mind, because no one seems to know how to do it. ;)

I'm not suggesting to cast it off like it's irrelevant. The issue it seems is doing it "right". And to do it right, takes experience with your eardrums and possibly somewhat sophisticated instruments like an 0-scope. Since the chances that the OP has a scope handy are probably pretty low, I'll stand by my point.

I've never "set my gains correctly" according to the DMM method and have only lost one single tweeter out of what feels like nearly 100 **** speakers. And that driver didn't explode into a flaming inferno because my gains were too high, because there was no gain set. Truth is, i have no idea what caused it to fail? God??

My suggestion to "set your gains correctly" [read: use the volume control responsibly] is to intimately know your music and understand how it's recorded. The real truth is that the waveform drives the amplifier voltage. Since the waveform is constantly in flux, then using a sine wave could very well set the ill-informed gain setter up for disaster. The point is that if you know the RMS of 80% of the music you listen to, then setting your gain is like tying your shoelaces.

BTW, I don't set my gains at all...as in, they knob is all the way down. I regularly listen to my system with the HU pegged to full out max. I have over 400 watts to my midbass speakers and have bridged amps to my tweeters more than once. Power doesn't kill speakers, not knowing your music does. IMHO. :)

And clipping doesn't destroy speakers. Run any modern day crappy pop recording through a waveform analyzer and you'll probably find it clipping at as little as .5 dB down and heavily at -3 dB down. I've scanned some of "the best" music out there that has clipped at 0 dB. It's scary.

steveyhustle
06-11-2008, 04:29 PM
http://www.iqcaraudio.com/rainbow/profi_vanadium/index.htm

there the 5th ones down

FoxPro5
06-11-2008, 04:36 PM
Furthermore, if you want to use a DMM the best (in my experience), use it to voltage match one channel to the next. For example, the left side of the car vs the right.

Using a DMM to try and match HU output voltage to amp output voltage assumes way too many unknowns. If you know all the extraneous factors...and can keep them constant, then go for it.

redcalimp5
06-11-2008, 04:40 PM
Thanks for the elaboration, Fox, I appreciate the honest, thought-out answers and not a summary blast of negativity like a lot of posters seem so keen on doing on the boards nowadays.

So your gain on your amps are set all the way down, like essentially turned down to the lowest possible adjustment setting? That would make sense, then, that your mids are getting the kid of wattage that they are.

mokedaddy
06-11-2008, 04:41 PM
Furthermore, if you want to use a DMM the best (in my experience), use it to voltage match one channel to the next. For example, the left side of the car vs the right.

Using a DMM to try and match HU output voltage to amp output voltage assumes way too many unknowns. If you know all the extraneous factors...and can keep them constant, then go for it.

I definitely agree that people spend way too much time worrying about getting maximum power out of their amplifiers or how much power they are getting or even think they are getting.

I just wish there were more 2 channels that allowed left and right gain matching, although its really not a huge deal.

mokedaddy
06-11-2008, 04:46 PM
Thanks for the elaboration, Fox, I appreciate the honest, thought-out answers and not a summary blast of negativity like a lot of posters seem so keen on doing on the boards nowadays.

So your gain on your amps are set all the way down, like essentially turned down to the lowest possible adjustment setting? That would make sense, then, that your mids are getting the kid of wattage that they are.

This obviously isnt for everybody either. I am guessing he has a good amount of headroom to do that although it really takes less power to mids and tweets than many think, especially running active, but thats a whole nother story.

The best way to set gains is by ear if you dont have the equipment. Actually even with access to the equipment I still set by ear and then double check with an o-scope.

A dmm is quite arbitrary IMO, all it tells you is a number, while your ears tell you when you are distorting or one set of speakers is too loud for the others. Level matching is a big part of a good system that people overlook and merely grab the dmm to set for full power which is rarely level matched across the system.

FoxPro5
06-11-2008, 05:05 PM
So your gain on your amps are set all the way down, like essentially turned down to the lowest possible adjustment setting? That would make sense, then, that your mids are getting the kid of wattage that they are.

Yes, mine are. I have Linear Power 1502IQ on each of my tweeters (Dyn MD102) and midrange (Scan 12m) that are level matched, with the gains only adjusted on one amp to level match across the car. The gain only literally had to move a hair to bring the L/R channels within .1v. For me, the gain setting happens on the HU where I attenuate the tweeters down lower than the midranges as they are obviously more efficient. I think it works out to be -3 on the MR and -5 on the TW.

I only mention this in detail because I've tried all the other ways to "set your gains correctly" and they didn't yield as good of results. Take it for what it's worth.

But, I know what my HU is capable of voltage-wise b/c I've measured it.

I also know what a lot of my music looks like b/c I've measured it.

To me, it's not if the speakers can take it, because speaker ratings tell us little and amp ratings tell us little. It's about being a good listener...and I listen to my system LOUD and have pretty expensive "world class" drivers that could be melted. :greedy: