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IDSkoT
05-12-2008, 12:22 AM
I've been getting really bad gas mileage in my sixxer... I'm talking in the single-digits. So, I took out all my spark plugs... and, well... I'm fvcking confused:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v714/TwistedShot/IMG00071.jpg

The spark plugs are in order of how I took them out. So the ones on the left is the passanger side, the ones on the right is the driver's side.


:confused::crazy::confused:

Obviously something is wrong. My question is: do I have to take it to a shop to fix it?


[P.S. This is a '98 V6 Mustang]



EDIT:: I also get random 'Check Engine Light' warnings. They come and go. It seems really arbitrary.

jdawg
05-12-2008, 12:23 AM
O2 problem

IDSkoT
05-12-2008, 12:24 AM
O2 problem


On only 1 side?

jdawg
05-12-2008, 12:25 AM
you should have 3 or 4 O2's id one is stuck it could run one side lean

IDSkoT
05-12-2008, 12:27 AM
you should have 3 or 4 O2's id one is stuck it could run one side lean


Oh :word:


Any way to tell which one? Or no?

jdawg
05-12-2008, 12:30 AM
usaully it will set your CEL but go to autostoned and see if there is a code. There should be 1 O2 sensor on each downpipe and 1 after your cat. Not posotive cause Im not a Ford tech. But get it checked sounds like an O2 problem to me.

IDSkoT
05-12-2008, 12:33 AM
usaully it will set your CEL but go to autostoned and see if there is a code. There should be 1 O2 sensor on each downpipe and 1 after your cat. Not posotive cause Im not a Ford tech. But get it checked sounds like an O2 problem to me.


I've always heard those places will hook up to your car for free-- but, I don't even know how to begin to ask. Do I just walk up and ask if they'll scan my car for me?

jdawg
05-12-2008, 12:36 AM
yea just ask them if they can sheck your codes. usaully whichever bank is rich/lean your O2 is malfunctioning on that side. I would but a factory O2 also.

Ferendon
05-13-2008, 06:35 AM
If you've had the car more than a couple years, and you've never done them, then do them anyways. There's a way to test them, but it's not really worth it, if they're more than a couple years old. Also, be very gentle with the new ones. They have a porcelain element inside them, and if you drop them, it could very easily trash them. The Essex V6, had 3 O2 sensors, in most cases, 2 pre-cat, 1 post-cat. Cali cars have 2 pre, 2 post.

brad148405
05-14-2008, 10:43 AM
similar issue, replaced O2 sensor and PCV valve, try those first.

mlstrass
05-14-2008, 10:47 AM
Most auto parts stores will check codes for free, just ask. They provide that service, so they can sell you the parts you need to fix it...

IDSkoT
05-16-2008, 05:32 PM
So I took my car to Advanced Autoparts today to run the codes.

I got P1151 and P0174
Aparently it's running lean, not rich? :confused:

Anyway... What do I replace? The guy at Advanced Autoparts said MAF and O2. But, according to these codes, only the O2 is bad? Any help?

Zakerid
05-16-2008, 05:40 PM
MAF can be cleaned... o2's should be changed.

IDSkoT
05-16-2008, 10:19 PM
MAF can be cleaned... o2's should be changed.

How can you clean them?

Alpine CDA-9815
05-17-2008, 12:17 AM
Have someone scan for codes.

Supergumby5000
05-17-2008, 12:21 AM
definately and air problem, this happens on a LOT of the ford's 90's engines. This happened in my explorer

if you have a local shucks, they will read your codes for free (which will tell you if its an O2 sensor or not)

as for cleaning the MAF sensor, just take it off your intake, spray it full of electrical cleaner spray, and let it dry (for a long *** time, you dont want to put it back in wet)

IDSkoT
05-17-2008, 02:22 AM
So I took my car to Advanced Autoparts today to run the codes.

I got P1151 and P0174
Aparently it's running lean, not rich? :confused:

Anyway... What do I replace? The guy at Advanced Autoparts said MAF and O2. But, according to these codes, only the O2 is bad? Any help?


No one reads anymore. :(

But, where can I get that electrical cleaner spray? Any hardware store? Any prefered brands?


They both refer to 'bank 2'. I just don't know where Bank 2 is.

IgnoreMe
05-17-2008, 02:34 AM
well first off, bank 2 is going to be the side where cylinder 1 is not on...

you pretty much have 3 options here

1) the 02 sensor could be bad

2) unmetered air (vaccum leak, causing a lean condition, and fuel trim adjusting and starting to dump fuel to compensate)

3) maf is dirty (doubt it here, considering only bank 2 is jacked. the maf will affect all cylinders as its the only point where air is metered for the whole engine)

IDSkoT
05-17-2008, 02:36 AM
well first off, bank 2 is going to be the side where cylinder 1 is not on...

you pretty much have 3 options here

1) the 02 sensor could be bad

2) unmetered air (vaccum leak, causing a lean condition, and fuel trim adjusting and starting to dump fuel to compensate)

3) maf is dirty (doubt it here, considering only bank 2 is jacked. the maf will affect all cylinders as its the only point where air is metered for the whole engine)



Well, Bank 2 = Passenger side, I'm guessing?
My driver's side's plugs are incredibly dirty as shown in OP.
I'll clean out my MAF anyway.
But, do you suppose the Bank 2 O2 censor is somewhere along the header on my passenger side?

IgnoreMe
05-17-2008, 02:49 AM
Well, Bank 2 = Passenger side, I'm guessing?
My driver's side's plugs are incredibly dirty as shown in OP.
I'll clean out my MAF anyway.
But, do you suppose the Bank 2 O2 censor is somewhere along the header on my passenger side?
passenger side.

i would honestly check it out at autozone though. i believe their scanners will let you watch the 02 voltages fluctuating. you want to see an adjustment every so often from about .150v to .650 or higher.

there is a way to test it (using propane, but i doubt you would want to do it, especially on their ****** scanners out in a parking lot lol [ps, dont use the "voltage has to fluctuate 10 times a second" cause it doesnt...]) but ****, they arent expensive anyways, and considering the car is 10 years old, i would be surprised if its due for one. when i did mine, i replaced all of them.

bad @SS chevy
05-17-2008, 02:53 AM
My car has been running rich/lean. I got my check engine light scanned and it said " EVAP EMISSION FAILURE ".. what the hell does that mean? my car is running like ****...

IgnoreMe
05-17-2008, 02:55 AM
My car has been running rich/lean. I got my check engine light scanned and it said " EVAP EMISSION FAILURE ".. what the hell does that mean? my car is running like ****...

what was the actual code number. ive never seen a code that just said "evap emission failure"

Fusion_FREAK
05-17-2008, 02:56 AM
Buy a $17 Haynes repair manual for your car. It took me a long time to finally break down and buy one. In mine, it shows a bunch of pictures of differently worn plugs, tells what the cause and solution is for it.

revrider1
05-17-2008, 02:56 AM
Mine is the EGR valve, but check ur vaccume lines first...

bad @SS chevy
05-17-2008, 02:57 AM
It does say a code for my check engine .. I have taken it to 2 shops, and no one knows whats wrong,, But one guy @ autozone said it was the egr valve...

revrider1
05-17-2008, 02:58 AM
Mine was and still is the EGR Valve, just havent made time to take it out...

I have replaced the plugs, wires, MAF, 02 and nothing...

IgnoreMe
05-17-2008, 03:00 AM
It does say a code for my check engine .. I have taken it to 2 shops, and no one knows whats wrong,, But one guy @ autozone said it was the egr valve...

usually a bad egr valve (one that lets exhaust back in at idle) will make the engine either

a) run REAL rough at idle

b) stall at idle

you can check your egr valve by grabbing the vaccume line (assuming it is vaccum actuated) and sucking on it. you should be able to hear and feel it open and close as you "accuate" it.

revrider1
05-17-2008, 03:02 AM
usually a bad egr valve (one that lets exhaust back in at idle) will make the engine either

a) run REAL rough at idle

b) stall at idle

you can check your egr valve by grabbing the vaccume line (assuming it is vaccum actuated) and sucking on it. you should be able to hear and feel it open and close as you "accuate" it.Hmm, i need to try that...

revrider1
05-17-2008, 03:02 AM
Mine more hesitates on acceleration?

IgnoreMe
05-17-2008, 03:06 AM
Mine more hesitates on acceleration?

should run real rough at idle and get better as you start to speed up

revrider1
05-17-2008, 03:06 AM
Yep, it will do 90mph easy...

Just the take off is dirty

IgnoreMe
05-17-2008, 03:12 AM
Yep, it will do 90mph easy...

Just the take off is dirty

if i were you, id take a glance at it.

revrider1
05-17-2008, 03:14 AM
yeah, i need to take it off and check it...

My tailpipe is black also...

Almost seems like its flooding on take off...

IDSkoT
05-17-2008, 04:22 AM
How many o2's would you suppose my car has?

I wouldn't mind changing them all out if there's only 2 or 3 or so.

If there's 4... ef that. I'm not paying $200> bucks for that. But if it's two [which would be awesome] I wouldn't mind paying ~$100 bucks and replacing them all.

I also read somewhere you need a special o2 socket for some cars.
Any one have a list of said cars?

IDSkoT
05-17-2008, 01:59 PM
/bump

IgnoreMe
05-17-2008, 02:56 PM
honestly, if you're worried about the money, i would just get them checked out for function.

usually when an o2 goes bad, it will set off a CEL. now if its biased rich or lean it usually wont, assuming it hasnt broken the threshold of the parameters set by the manufacturer. i would honestly just take it to autozone, get their scanner, connect it, turn the car on, let it get nice and toasty and go into closed loop and then watch the o2 sensors on the scanners and see how they react. should be a nice steady bounce from .150 or so to .750-.800v. if one of them sticks on a certain range (car has to be in closed loop, open loop everything runs off parameters that the ecu states) its no good,

id check for vaccum leaks before i did an o2 sensor if i was short on cash. check around the intake manifold on the drivers side.

btw, dont make the mistake i did. i thought my car needed the universal o2 sensors and bought one way back because thats what the ***** at autozone said (unless i wanted to go oem from the dealer i needed the universal) which was way more expensive than the standard. when i went back to pick up two more for the hell of it, i got a different employee and he gave me an option of what i wanted..... paid about half of what i did for the standard than what i did for the universal :mad:

IDSkoT
05-17-2008, 05:00 PM
honestly, if you're worried about the money, i would just get them checked out for function.

usually when an o2 goes bad, it will set off a CEL. now if its biased rich or lean it usually wont, assuming it hasnt broken the threshold of the parameters set by the manufacturer. i would honestly just take it to autozone, get their scanner, connect it, turn the car on, let it get nice and toasty and go into closed loop and then watch the o2 sensors on the scanners and see how they react. should be a nice steady bounce from .150 or so to .750-.800v. if one of them sticks on a certain range (car has to be in closed loop, open loop everything runs off parameters that the ecu states) its no good,

id check for vaccum leaks before i did an o2 sensor if i was short on cash. check around the intake manifold on the drivers side.

btw, dont make the mistake i did. i thought my car needed the universal o2 sensors and bought one way back because thats what the ***** at autozone said (unless i wanted to go oem from the dealer i needed the universal) which was way more expensive than the standard. when i went back to pick up two more for the hell of it, i got a different employee and he gave me an option of what i wanted..... paid about half of what i did for the standard than what i did for the universal :mad:

Where/how would I check for vacuum leaks?

And, if I were to switch out the O2 sensors, I'd just get my Dad's friend to order them. I talked to the guy today, he said they're about $40 dollars a piece. Which is about half of what I would've paid at Autozone :eek:

But we'll see.

Today I went and got Electronic Parts Cleaner from Autozone [Actually Advanced Autoparts, but it's the same ish.] and I took off the MAF and cleaned it nice and good. The sensor is nearly sparkling now =P

I disconnected the Negative while I was doing it, so the computer reset. When I turned on the car there was no Check Engine Light. But that's normal. We'll see in a few days if it comes back on or not.
The guy that has the mechanic shop, he was telling my Dad that Fords are known to get dirt and debris stuck in the MAF and such, and when / if they go bad, they send bad signals to the ECU making it think that an O2 is bad-- something like that. My Dad didn't care enough to devote it all to memory.

But, in a few days/week or two I don't get a Check Engine Light, I'm gunna forget about it. If not, I'm gunna change both O2's. I saw them today-- they're right ontop of my h pipes, right before they intersect. So, shouldn't be too hard to swap them out.



Now I just gotta figure out how to take the d@mn Fuel Filter out. fvcking Ford... and get new plugs. Having one side black and one side clear = bad :fyi:

MemphisCherokee
05-17-2008, 07:19 PM
Mine more hesitates on acceleration?

the EGR will **** with acceleration and itll idle roughly
i just worked on a girl's mustang with a ****ed up EGR and
theyre originally an aluminum EGR but they have a habit of oxidizing so if you replace is yourself try to get a plastic one. most places will replave it with plastic anyways.
for a temporary fix, you can take some caruburator cleaner to the current aluminum EGR

IgnoreMe
05-17-2008, 08:37 PM
Where/how would I check for vacuum leaks?

And, if I were to switch out the O2 sensors, I'd just get my Dad's friend to order them. I talked to the guy today, he said they're about $40 dollars a piece. Which is about half of what I would've paid at Autozone :eek:

But we'll see.

Today I went and got Electronic Parts Cleaner from Autozone [Actually Advanced Autoparts, but it's the same ish.] and I took off the MAF and cleaned it nice and good. The sensor is nearly sparkling now =P

I disconnected the Negative while I was doing it, so the computer reset. When I turned on the car there was no Check Engine Light. But that's normal. We'll see in a few days if it comes back on or not.
The guy that has the mechanic shop, he was telling my Dad that Fords are known to get dirt and debris stuck in the MAF and such, and when / if they go bad, they send bad signals to the ECU making it think that an O2 is bad-- something like that. My Dad didn't care enough to devote it all to memory.

But, in a few days/week or two I don't get a Check Engine Light, I'm gunna forget about it. If not, I'm gunna change both O2's. I saw them today-- they're right ontop of my h pipes, right before they intersect. So, shouldn't be too hard to swap them out.



Now I just gotta figure out how to take the d@mn Fuel Filter out. fvcking Ford... and get new plugs. Having one side black and one side clear = bad :fyi:

for fuel filters are FUN! :rolleyes:

just head out to car quest or a similar shop and you can pick up the fuel filter/ a/c tool for 8 bucks. its a one time thing and its worth it, considering you'll probably need it for the rusted out a/c accumulator thats so common on our year fords (late 90's are horrible, condensation developes and stays behind the insulation off the accumulator..bam, rusted out, refrigerent leak, no a/c)

as for the maf, if the maf is dirty it wont be able to meter the air correctly. it will usually run like **** with a rough idle, hesitation, etc etc. its probably not going to be your issue as a bad maf would affect all the cylinders since every bit of air going to the engine has to be metered by the maf. thats probably not your problem, but on the fords...it never hurts to clean the **** thing.

btw, if you're friends dad gots the hook up on parts, i might assume he works at a shop. if he does...a smoke machine will work wonders for you. connect the smoke machine to a vacuum line that has to do with the area you're trying to test, turn it on, and watch for smoke. where there is smoke, there is a leak.

IDSkoT
05-18-2008, 03:09 AM
for fuel filters are FUN! :rolleyes:

just head out to car quest or a similar shop and you can pick up the fuel filter/ a/c tool for 8 bucks. its a one time thing and its worth it, considering you'll probably need it for the rusted out a/c accumulator thats so common on our year fords (late 90's are horrible, condensation developes and stays behind the insulation off the accumulator..bam, rusted out, refrigerent leak, no a/c)

as for the maf, if the maf is dirty it wont be able to meter the air correctly. it will usually run like **** with a rough idle, hesitation, etc etc. its probably not going to be your issue as a bad maf would affect all the cylinders since every bit of air going to the engine has to be metered by the maf. thats probably not your problem, but on the fords...it never hurts to clean the **** thing.

btw, if you're friends dad gots the hook up on parts, i might assume he works at a shop. if he does...a smoke machine will work wonders for you. connect the smoke machine to a vacuum line that has to do with the area you're trying to test, turn it on, and watch for smoke. where there is smoke, there is a leak.

Lmao. This made me laugh. 'specially 'cause of your ava :P
But, the thing is, the guy's shop is about 25-50 miles from me. So, it's not feasible.

But what size do I need? I saw like 1/4, 1/2, and 3/4. Do I just ask one that works for a '98 'stang?

P.S. Is yours manual or auto? I want to get a T-5 swap. I can prolly get all the stuff for a decent price. But, the problem is the placement. The place for the tranny is too far up. I kinda wanna make a new custom center console and extend it back more. Get a new drive shaft and an extender from the engine to the tranny.
Thoughts?