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View Full Version : I am having a freakin difficult time deciding my frontstage!



krisfnbz
05-06-2008, 07:26 PM
Seriously its starting to get very annoying right now. I just cannot simply decide what to do in my frontstage. Let me first startoff of what equipment I have, and how im running it.

Front Mids: CDT ES-600's
Tweeters(Rainbow Cal 20's)- I do have the VC100's though(Was going to use these, not not sure)

I am running 3 way active(with sub) with the 9887 with no rear fill.

I have the Memphis Big belle and the MCA Memphis 4 channel. I can put out 75x4, or 230x2. Im running active now so....I do have the ability to bridge both 4 channels(The belle and 3004) to get 230x4.... which is PLENTY for 2 tweeters and 2 mids(If I want to run 2 way active with no rear fill with PLENTY of headroom)

----------------------------------------

I would like the ability to run rear speakers as fill through my HU, which I can with the 9887.

I just dont know what freakin frontstage to do. I just bought the blaupunkt Vc100 tweeters mainly for the fact that I hear have very similar characteristics as the rainbow cal 25. I am really looking for a silk tweeter, I dont want anything bright or in my face type sound, which is why when I owned the Rainbow SLX's, I really enjoyed them just the midbass was not there.

I then thought I might try the dynaudios 3 way, and run passive mainly for the fact that I have a spot on my doors where I can put the 3 inch dome midranges... but dynaudio can be pretty pricey, and hard to find legit and used.

here is where I wanted to put that 3 inch dome midrange:

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u14/krisfnbs/Pictures085-1.jpg

Here is where my tweeter is mounted now, not the best spot but its really the only place to put it up near the dash without much custom work:

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u14/krisfnbs/Pictures086.jpg


WHAT TO DO? I feel like an idiot

krisfnbz
05-07-2008, 11:29 AM
anyone trying to give a brotha some advice?

DejaWiz
05-07-2008, 11:50 AM
You looking for just the mids, primarily? Or are you wanting to look at a full passive set first?

squeak9798
05-07-2008, 11:52 AM
I would not put the midranges there and run passive. The only real shot you'd have at making that work would be to run active, and even then I'd consider that far less than ideal placement.

krisfnbz
05-07-2008, 12:32 PM
You looking for just the mids, primarily? Or are you wanting to look at a full passive set first?

Well yeah I guess now I am looking for a good set of midrange speakers to run active with the 9887. I dont want to run a 2 way passive set, as I dont have a need to because I can easily run 2 way active front with the 9887, I was thinking of going 3 way passive though.

krisfnbz
05-07-2008, 12:47 PM
I would not put the midranges there and run passive. The only real shot you'd have at making that work would be to run active, and even then I'd consider that far less than ideal placement.

Yeah I think I am going to end up running 2 way active in the frontstage.

What do you recommend to match with the Vc100 tweeter(I hear things about this tweeter being very similar to the rainbow cal 25). I want something with smooth midrange, nothing in your face, but not too laid back either. Also something with good punchy midbass. Im acctually trying to get my hands on some germanium mids... what do you think?

DejaWiz
05-07-2008, 12:51 PM
Scan Rev's or Peerless Exclusives, maybe?

Possibly the CDT ES-06+ or M6+ if you want to try CDT again.

A pair of Ti6 mids can be had for about $140 from woofersetc.

krisfnbz
05-07-2008, 12:56 PM
Scan Rev's or Peerless Exclusives, maybe?

Possibly the CDT ES-06+ or M6+ if you want to try CDT again.

A pair of Ti6 mids can be had for about $140 from woofersetc.

Well I had the CDT ES-600 midranges and I think those were very nice mids....I think the M6 is more dedicated to midbass am I correct? I would want something thats more efficent up to about 3.2 4k, I can fully adjust my slops and crossover points with the 9887 very nicely.

Now the ES-06+ is the step higher than the ES-600 correct?

What do you think about buying the mids from the rainbow germanium set? I hear great things about that set of speakers, and I hear the Blaupunkt vc100 tweeter which is apparently suppost to have similar characteristics as the cal 25.

DejaWiz
05-07-2008, 01:44 PM
Not sure how high up the ES-06+ or the M6+ mids will extend frequency-wise. I have read posts here from dealers saying they have tremendous low end extension (into the 20's), which might be cause for some concern or speculation on their upper range extension and performance.

Good call on the Germ mids - I think they would be a great choice based on all the positive reviews out there. Might be worth looking for a pair of Powerline CMX or CMX Kick mids, as well; PM PremierAudio, 6spdcoupe, and 3.5Max6spd as they might have some sitting around.

Germ mids: W165G
CMX mids: W165CMX
CMX Kick mids: W165CMXKICK

krisfnbz
05-07-2008, 02:08 PM
Not sure how high up the ES-06+ or the M6+ mids will extend frequency-wise. I have read posts here from dealers saying they have tremendous low end extension (into the 20's), which might be cause for some concern or speculation on their upper range extension and performance.

Good call on the Germ mids - I think they would be a great choice based on all the positive reviews out there. Might be worth looking for a pair of Powerline CMX or CMX Kick mids, as well; PM PremierAudio, 6spdcoupe, and 3.5Max6spd as they might have some sitting around.

Germ mids: W165G
CMX mids: W165CMX
CMX Kick mids: W165CMXKICK

Thanks,

I was lookin for those model #'s everywhere and couldnt find em.

krisfnbz
05-08-2008, 01:05 PM
So I ended up purchasing a set of used germanium mids, to use with the VC100's

WHats everyones input on that?

DejaWiz
05-08-2008, 01:08 PM
Sweet! Definitely let us know your impressions once they are up and running. :D

krisfnbz
05-08-2008, 01:11 PM
Sweet! Definitely let us know your impressions once they are up and running. :D

I sure will.

PaulD
05-09-2008, 08:07 PM
word of warning, when you get really nice components - you will need better recorded music. That's the problem I face right now.

tcguy85
05-09-2008, 09:04 PM
word of warning, when you get really nice components - you will need better recorded music. That's the problem I face right now.

yup a big X2! a high resolution system can bring out ALL the flaws in the recording.

to the OP: how low are people saying those tweets will go?

in my opinion, a 6.5" mid should not be crossed higher than 2.5k.... maybe 3k tops(if it's a really good mid).

why make the mid try to play from 80hz,(maybe even 60 or so) all the way up to 4k? thats just over 6 octaves. cross the tweets at 2.5k and they are still only playing 3 octaves. cross the sub at 80(which is pretty standard) and it's also only playing 3 octaves(if you run a subsonic filter at 20hz or not at all, but some run higher ssf's).

soooo.... why make the mids try to do so much work? you shouldn't expect crazy mid-bass response and smooth mids all the way up to 4k both from the same driver, it's just not going to happen.

krisfnbz
05-09-2008, 11:50 PM
word of warning, when you get really nice components - you will need better recorded music. That's the problem I face right now.

Yeah I have found myself downloading alot more Itunes music.. and listening to real cd's lately.


yup a big X2! a high resolution system can bring out ALL the flaws in the recording.

to the OP: how low are people saying those tweets will go?

in my opinion, a 6.5" mid should not be crossed higher than 2.5k.... maybe 3k tops(if it's a really good mid).

why make the mid try to play from 80hz,(maybe even 60 or so) all the way up to 4k? thats just over 6 octaves. cross the tweets at 2.5k and they are still only playing 3 octaves. cross the sub at 80(which is pretty standard) and it's also only playing 3 octaves(if you run a subsonic filter at 20hz or not at all, but some run higher ssf's).

soooo.... why make the mids try to do so much work? you shouldn't expect crazy mid-bass response and smooth mids all the way up to 4k both from the same driver, it's just not going to happen.

That does make sense. Right now I have my sub crossed at 80hz 12DB slope...I believe these VC100 tweeters dont like to be crossed very low, I will end up crossing them around 2.5 with a 24 DB slope.... that way they are are not playing 6 octaves. I will end up running the mid from like 80ish 12db, to like 2.5 12DB or something.

I am still getting the hang of running an active 2 way, its just a matter of messing around with the drivers etc.

krisfnbz
05-09-2008, 11:51 PM
THis guy did a review on the tweeters...

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34313

tcguy85
05-09-2008, 11:54 PM
THis guy did a review on the tweeters...

http://diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33376&highlight=vc100

he says they are not to be used below 3k. so i guess you're stuck crossing them at 3k or so. the whole active thing is all about trial and error.... so just keep playing around.

krisfnbz
05-10-2008, 12:09 AM
he says they are not to be used below 3k. so i guess you're stuck crossing them at 3k or so. the whole active thing is all about trial and error.... so just keep playing around.

yeah I could cross them at 3khz and put the slope lower around like 6-12 so they play lower...

tcguy85
05-10-2008, 12:19 AM
yea either way.

anyway, whats the main problem you are having with your current gear?

krisfnbz
05-10-2008, 04:48 PM
Well I was just trying to get a really nice frontstage, without spending alot of $$, but not being too cheap either. My car deserves quality stuff.

krisfnbz
05-10-2008, 04:48 PM
BTW... I believe the RSD's are over-rated. I mean for $80 bucks...worth it but these cannot be compared to higher end speakers in any way shape or form.

tcguy85
05-11-2008, 01:41 AM
BTW... I believe the RSD's are over-rated. I mean for $80 bucks...worth it but these cannot be compared to higher end speakers in any way shape or form.

they have a lot of potential. don't doubt them. but i do have a shitload of power and a good processor.

what is the problem with the stuff you have? what needs improvement?

krisfnbz
05-11-2008, 11:50 AM
they have a lot of potential. don't doubt them. but i do have a shitload of power and a good processor.

what is the problem with the stuff you have? what needs improvement?

Well I installed the RSD's on my friends car 05 civic... we had to mount the tweeters down low behind the grill of the door panel..he is using a head unit with practically no processing, the IDAX001, has 2V preouts... and bare to no flexibility. He does have a JBL crown amp to power them with tons of power....


Now with my stuff...The way it is now sounds very good to me, I just think it could sound better. I have a good electrical, good amps that give clean power, good subs that hit tight an accurate. I just think my tweeter could be better(upgrading from the cal 20 to the vc100) and upgrading/changing my mid from the cdt es-600 to the germanium mid.

Ill see what the differences are soon.

tcguy85
05-11-2008, 12:19 PM
Well I installed the RSD's on my friends car 05 civic... we had to mount the tweeters down low behind the grill of the door panel..he is using a head unit with practically no processing, the IDAX001, has 2V preouts... and bare to no flexibility. He does have a JBL crown amp to power them with tons of power....


Now with my stuff...The way it is now sounds very good to me, I just think it could sound better. I have a good electrical, good amps that give clean power, good subs that hit tight an accurate. I just think my tweeter could be better(upgrading from the cal 20 to the vc100) and upgrading/changing my mid from the cdt es-600 to the germanium mid.

Ill see what the differences are soon.

yea that install in ur buddies civic doesn't sound optimal. i think almost any set of speakers can be made to sound good with enough processing power.

i hope your results are what you expect with these new drivers. let us know the results, and be sure to let both the tweets and mids break in before you judge them.

krisfnbz
05-11-2008, 03:24 PM
yea that install in ur buddies civic doesn't sound optimal. i think almost any set of speakers can be made to sound good with enough processing power.

i hope your results are what you expect with these new drivers. let us know the results, and be sure to let both the tweets and mids break in before you judge them.

Yeah well the germ mids are already used and broken in, the VC100 are brand spankin new and apparently need 15 hrs or so to break in.