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View Full Version : Ordered 2 Image Dynamics ID 10" Now Box time! Box dimensions?



hemi4me?
04-26-2008, 12:39 PM
Hey guys, thank you to many suggestions on the forum I decided to go with a sub I have never used - 2 Image Dynamics ID 10" dual 2 ohm (I am sure everyone will have there opnion about why I should use the IDQ or the MAX but this was my budget and I am not powering it with a alot (I think I am going with Audison LRX 1.400 they say its 600 w at 2 ohm or a Kicker SX650.1 - suggestions welcome).

The reason I picked this sub is I was going to do a IB on the rear deck of my 300C BUT after looking at the pics below in the link from Image Dynamics Dodge Charger (Same rear deck) of the box design I was thinking I could make a sealed enclosure instead and hang it from the deck underside? I called the tech there who built the car Matt and he said the baffle was about 8" tall and he removed the whole rear deck.

After seeing the pics, I am thinking maybe a nice sealed box (maybe 8" tall could be used for better sound (similar to the pics but the subs facing up) and maybe easier to achieve a better sound in a sealed enclosure instead of the IB setup.

I have 12" to work with on the deck lid (from the rear of the back seat, to the glass) and the width is very wide prolly 40 plus inches (16 gauge steel).

Here are the specs on the SUBS (2 ID 10" Dual 2 Ohm) I am hoping someone would give advice on a sealed enlosure dimensions using a height of 8" and a width of roughly 40" similar to the one in the pics.

Would you rather see these 2 subs in a IB setup or in a sealed enclosure?

Size: 10 inch
Sealed Box Dims: 0.75 - 0.75 cu. ft.
Ported Box Dims: 1.30 - 1.30 cu. ft.
Free Air Usage: yes
Sensitivity: 86.5 dB
Frequency Response: 10-150 Hz
Recommended RMS Power: 100-300W
Peak Power Handling: 400W

http://www.imagedynamicsusa.com/forum/index.php?autocom=gallery&req=si&img=1728

BEAVER.989
04-26-2008, 01:17 PM
It sounds like you've already given the dimensions... 40x12x8?

Luckily for you, this works out perfectly at 1.52cft. (.75 per sub)

hemi4me?
04-26-2008, 01:20 PM
LOL thats funny! Unfortunately that is the external measurement - is that what is measured for making a sealed box? I assum that would have to be the iniside diameter? The hardest part is the 12" because that is the very max it could be.

Should I forge about the IB and for sure try the sealed box? Should these be in seperate chambers?

req
04-26-2008, 01:30 PM
so you need to make about a 1.5 cubic foot sealed enclosure that hangs from your rear deck.

by the way, i will be following information as listed here;
http://www.imagedynamicsusa.com/pdf/ID10%20D2%20v3.pdf

personally, it would be extremely simple to make this had it been my install. and just FYI, most audiophiles will agree that IB tends to be geared more toward sound quality than a sealed box, but it is harder to integrate in a vehicle. with that being said, lets pull out some formulas.


LxWxH

L=length
W=width
H=height
x=multiply

so we will use inches, because we are in america, and we are stupid. remember, our final number is in cubic feet - so we will have to do some voodoo math to come up with a final calculation in that form of units.

you have two 10" drivers that aa few inches deep. if we went with a box that, say is 11 inches internally, by 35 inches internally, and say, 10 inches deep internally. so far these are just numbers i am making up to get a starting point for what kind of space you have to work with. the enclosure is also 10" deep because the id10 is 9.125" deep - shall we continue? we would have a formula like this ;

35x11x10=3850

this is all well and good. you have 3850 cubic inches of internal volume, minus the displacement of two id10's wich happens to be .1 cubic foot.

so to find the cubic footage, we will divide 3850 by the magic number. the magic number is 1728. i found this magic number because one cubic foot = 12^3, that means, 12"x12"x12". so, we have this;

3850/1728=2.2280092592592592592592592592593

so you have 2.23 cubic feet of possible enclosure with a box that is smaller than the largest possible dimensions of your rear deck. so now you need to cut the size of the driver to that number. since you are using small drivers, we will say you have 2.1 cubic feet of enclosure space.

so you play around with the numbers a few times, do some more voodoo math, and come up with an idea. since you can not change the height and the depth of the enclosure due to the size of the speaker, you must change the width. so we will knock off a few inches to see if we can get your enclosure down to about 1.6 cubic feet (to account for the .1cf driver displacement) - mind you - this is not rocket science. if you can not get it perfect, dont worry, a few extra cubic inches internally will not destroy the universe.

just get it to about 1.6 give or take a few. you will be fine.

so;

27x11x10=2750/1728=1.59

perfect. so your internal dimensions are as follows;

27" long (C pillar to C pillar)
11" wide (glass to seat)
10" deep (rear deck to trunk floor)

awesome. 1.59 cubes. so now you have to figure out what kind of cuts you need to make. well this is some voodoomath that you will get used to. i usually cut my sides of the enclosure, to the exact internal dimensions and let the other sides overlap. so- you will be using 3\4" MDF - aka .75" MDF. do NOT FORGET to add an overlap to BOTH sides. as such.

top + bottom will be the same size. since we are looking at 11x27, we need to overlap the other pieces. so we need to add .75 for EACH side we overlap.

top piece = 12.5x28.5
bottom piece = 12.5x28.5

left side = 10x11
right side = 10x11

front = 10x28.5
back = 10x28.5

these are what you need to cut in order to make a 1.6 cubic foot enclosure. make sure you account for the blade thickness of the saw you will be using. make sure the edges are true 90 degree cuts. use a ruler - or a T square if you can. pre-drill the screw holes, and use tightbond II or III along with coarse drywall screws every 6~8 inches apart to hold it together. 90 degree clamps work well also.

after you build it - and are sure its going to fit - because i dont know what kind of obstacles you have in your rear deck - make sure you think about that before you build this, all you have to do is cut matching holes in the rear deck and your baffle and use some big fat bolts to secure the box to the rear deck. i would also counter sink the speaker into the box with either a router or another piece of MDF cut to 28.5x12.5 with holes the size of the outer diamater 10.125" of the speaker. also you might want to think about some sort of foam or rubber layer between the box and the rear deck to stifle any rattles it might cause. good luck and take pictures!

hope that helps.

req.

req
04-26-2008, 01:32 PM
It sounds like you've already given the dimensions... 40x12x8?

Luckily for you, this works out perfectly at 1.52cft. (.75 per sub)

you sir are a complete idiot.

40x12x8 = 3840
3840\1728 = 2.22
2.22 \ 2 = 1.1
1.1 + .5 (for speaker displacement) = 1.15

so 1.15 cubic feet for each driver. i think that is way far off of his original plan of .75 per driver. dont you?

BEAVER.989
04-26-2008, 01:58 PM
you sir are a complete idiot.

40x12x8 = 3840
3840\1728 = 2.22
2.22 \ 2 = 1.1
1.1 + .5 (for speaker displacement) = 1.15

so 1.15 cubic feet for each driver. i think that is way far off of his original plan of .75 per driver. dont you?

You, Sir are a complete idiot...

38.5x10.5x6.5=2627.625

2627.625/1728=1.5206163

1.5206163/2=.76

Touche.

BEAVER.989
04-26-2008, 02:00 PM
You forgot to subtract the 1.5" from each measurement needed when calculating 3/4" mdf.

BTW Image Dynamics listes GROSS requirements for their enclosures... so you DO NOT have to take displacement into considerstion, either.

req
04-26-2008, 02:07 PM
he said he wanted .75 for each speaker.


i was totally going on INTERNAL dimensions, this has nothing to do with subtracting - as usable space is internal space. i did not forget to do anything. you forgot to list that you subtracted MDF displacement.


It sounds like you've already given the dimensions... 40x12x8?

those dimensions you listed and information in the post yield 2.2 cubic feet period. and also, YOU forgot to take into account that the depth of the driver is 9.125" deep. on top of that, you forgot that you do NOT subtract 1.5" from each dimension. you subtract it from only overlapping sides. unless you start backwards with the outer dimensions... then you might make mistakes and end up with strange cut sizes and all sorts of other oddities.

so in short, the ID10 will not even fit in the enclosure size you listed.

have a nice day.

hemi4me?
04-26-2008, 02:08 PM
so you need to make about a 1.5 cubic foot sealed enclosure that hangs from your rear deck.

by the way, i will be following information as listed here;
http://www.imagedynamicsusa.com/pdf/ID10%20D2%20v3.pdf

personally, it would be extremely simple to make this had it been my install. and just FYI, most audiophiles will agree that IB tends to be geared more toward sound quality than a sealed box, but it is harder to integrate in a vehicle. with that being said, lets pull out some formulas.


LxWxH

L=length
W=width
H=height
x=multiply

so we will use inches, because we are in america, and we are stupid. remember, our final number is in cubic feet - so we will have to do some voodoo math to come up with a final calculation in that form of units.

you have two 10" drivers that aa few inches deep. if we went with a box that, say is 11 inches internally, by 35 inches internally, and say, 10 inches deep internally. so far these are just numbers i am making up to get a starting point for what kind of space you have to work with. the enclosure is also 10" deep because the id10 is 9.125" deep - shall we continue? we would have a formula like this ;

35x11x10=3850

this is all well and good. you have 3850 cubic inches of internal volume, minus the displacement of two id10's wich happens to be .1 cubic foot.

so to find the cubic footage, we will divide 3850 by the magic number. the magic number is 1728. i found this magic number because one cubic foot = 12^3, that means, 12"x12"x12". so, we have this;

3850/1728=2.2280092592592592592592592592593

so you have 2.23 cubic feet of possible enclosure with a box that is smaller than the largest possible dimensions of your rear deck. so now you need to cut the size of the driver to that number. since you are using small drivers, we will say you have 2.1 cubic feet of enclosure space.

so you play around with the numbers a few times, do some more voodoo math, and come up with an idea. since you can not change the height and the depth of the enclosure due to the size of the speaker, you must change the width. so we will knock off a few inches to see if we can get your enclosure down to about 1.6 cubic feet (to account for the .1cf driver displacement) - mind you - this is not rocket science. if you can not get it perfect, dont worry, a few extra cubic inches internally will not destroy the universe.

just get it to about 1.6 give or take a few. you will be fine.

so;

27x11x10=2750/1728=1.59

perfect. so your internal dimensions are as follows;

27" long (C pillar to C pillar)
11" wide (glass to seat)
10" deep (rear deck to trunk floor)

awesome. 1.59 cubes. so now you have to figure out what kind of cuts you need to make. well this is some voodoomath that you will get used to. i usually cut my sides of the enclosure, to the exact internal dimensions and let the other sides overlap. so- you will be using 3\4" MDF - aka .75" MDF. do NOT FORGET to add an overlap to BOTH sides. as such.

top + bottom will be the same size. since we are looking at 11x27, we need to overlap the other pieces. so we need to add .75 for EACH side we overlap.

top piece = 12.5x28.5
bottom piece = 12.5x28.5

left side = 10x11
right side = 10x11

front = 10x28.5
back = 10x28.5

these are what you need to cut in order to make a 1.6 cubic foot enclosure. make sure you account for the blade thickness of the saw you will be using. make sure the edges are true 90 degree cuts. use a ruler - or a T square if you can. pre-drill the screw holes, and use tightbond II or III along with coarse drywall screws every 6~8 inches apart to hold it together. 90 degree clamps work well also.

after you build it - and are sure its going to fit - because i dont know what kind of obstacles you have in your rear deck - make sure you think about that before you build this, all you have to do is cut matching holes in the rear deck and your baffle and use some big fat bolts to secure the box to the rear deck. i would also counter sink the speaker into the box with either a router or another piece of MDF cut to 28.5x12.5 with holes the size of the outer diamater 10.125" of the speaker. also you might want to think about some sort of foam or rubber layer between the box and the rear deck to stifle any rattles it might cause. good luck and take pictures!

hope that helps.

req.



OMG that was amazing info, I seriously appreciate that.

hemi4me?
04-26-2008, 02:11 PM
account that the depth of the driver is 9.125" deep. on top of that, you forgot that you do NOT subtract 1.5" from each dimension. you subtract it from only overlapping sides. unless you start backwards with the outer dimensions... then you might make mistakes and end up with strange cut sizes and all sorts of other oddities.

so in short, the ID10 will not even fit in the enclosure size you listed.

have a nice day.


Isnt the depth closer to 5.5"?

BEAVER.989
04-26-2008, 02:15 PM
he said he wanted .75 for each speaker.


i was totally going on INTERNAL dimensions, this has nothing to do with subtracting - as usable space is internal space. i did not forget to do anything. you forgot to list that you subtracted MDF displacement.



those dimensions you listed and information in the post yield 2.2 cubic feet period. and also, YOU forgot to take into account that the depth of the driver is 9.125" deep. on top of that, you forgot that you do NOT subtract 1.5" from each dimension. you subtract it from only overlapping sides. unless you start backwards with the outer dimensions... then you might make mistakes and end up with strange cut sizes and all sorts of other oddities.

so in short, the ID10 will not even fit in the enclosure size you listed.

have a nice day.

Who uses external measurements, seriously? He stated the space he had available and I took that into consideration, calculated internal volume and came up with 1.52 cft. Divide that by 2 and he's where he needs to be. PERIOD.

BTW, the driver is 5.5" deep... well within his limits.

Have a nice day, yourself.

hemi4me?
04-26-2008, 02:23 PM
Hey REQ how can I check out some pics of that set up in your sig?

Can you email them to me? Or are they on the site?

[email protected]

Megalomaniac
04-26-2008, 03:13 PM
Hey REQ how can I check out some pics of that set up in your sig?

Can you email them to me? Or are they on the site?

[email protected]

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17395

edit: he now doesnt have those amps, he is using a Memphis belle amp now

hemi4me?
04-26-2008, 03:39 PM
Nice set up!

I am wanting to do the IB set up, but I am nervous that its too hard to get it to sound right, where as a sealed box is pretty easy as long as you make it the correct size.

Megalomaniac
04-26-2008, 04:06 PM
Nice set up!

I am wanting to do the IB set up, but I am nervous that its too hard to get it to sound right, where as a sealed box is pretty easy as long as you make it the correct size.

na its pretty straight forward actually. just watch out how much power you feed and you should be good. more air the better in IB. just have to be sure your front wave is isolated from the back wave otherwise heavy cancellations will happen.

hemi4me?
04-26-2008, 04:40 PM
Guess I am confused how (since the rear deck has lots of crevesses and high and low spots to get the thing mounte up there with sealing it off the best.

Megalomaniac
04-26-2008, 05:22 PM
you should do something like this if you are talking rear-deck installs. this is in a friends car, Lexus is300. his name is ItalynStylion here.

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q151/Megalomaniac1989/March_9th_2008_DFW_Build_Day_at_Steven/_MG_3282.jpg

hemi4me?
04-26-2008, 05:22 PM
So is this right or no?

27" long (C pillar to C pillar)
11" wide (glass to seat)
10" deep (rear deck to trunk floor)

awesome. 1.59 cubes. so now you have to figure out what kind of cuts you need to make. well this is some voodoomath that you will get used to. i usually cut my sides of the enclosure, to the exact internal dimensions and let the other sides overlap. so- you will be using 3\4" MDF - aka .75" MDF. do NOT FORGET to add an overlap to BOTH sides. as such.

top + bottom will be the same size. since we are looking at 11x27, we need to overlap the other pieces. so we need to add .75 for EACH side we overlap.

top piece = 12.5x28.5
bottom piece = 12.5x28.5

left side = 10x11
right side = 10x11

front = 10x28.5
back = 10x28.5

hemi4me?
04-26-2008, 05:24 PM
you should do something like this if you are talking rear-deck installs. this is in a friends car, Lexus is300. his name is ItalynStylion here.

Cool, but I really wanted the subs firing up in the cabin to reduce rattle. Something like that box tho!

Vermithrax
04-26-2008, 07:04 PM
req made a slight mistake in his math. 27x11x10=2970/1728=1.72cf. No biggie, the dimensions he gave will work fine. If you wanted to be right at .75 per sub reduce the box width to 26" external or 26.75" if you put a divider to make separate chambers.

hemi4me?
04-26-2008, 07:15 PM
Are the sep chambers the way to go?

Vermithrax
04-26-2008, 07:20 PM
Matter of preference. I use sep. chambers in multiple driver boxes. It's up to you.

hemi4me?
04-26-2008, 07:35 PM
Any suggestions on an amp to run these?

I am thinking $400 and under 400-600 watts

Audison 1.400 is on ebay $340.00
Alpine MRD-M1005
Kicker 650zx

Vermithrax
04-26-2008, 08:46 PM
I'm hearing good things about the Pioneer GM-D8400M. Small footprint and is rated at 600x1 at 2 ohms.

hemi4me?
04-27-2008, 02:38 AM
I just bought a Big Bell Memphis amp from another member. I am so stupid... I was not in the market for such a LARGE AMP! LOL

Megalomaniac
04-27-2008, 02:43 AM
Cool, but I really wanted the subs firing up in the cabin to reduce rattle. Something like that box tho!

There is absolutely no trunk rattle :) although he did deaden the hell out of the rear deck though

jsapp720
04-27-2008, 02:48 AM
you should do something like this if you are talking rear-deck installs. this is in a friends car, Lexus is300. his name is ItalynStylion here.

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q151/Megalomaniac1989/March_9th_2008_DFW_Build_Day_at_Steven/_MG_3282.jpg

i really like this instale very clean good awesome

hemi4me?
04-27-2008, 02:48 AM
Can anyone tell me wha kind of wood this is? Used for the baffle? And if anyone local to AZ knows how to build a baffle anywhere near like this I would love to chat or pay you to make one LOL

Check the link out..

http://www.imagedynamicsusa.com/forum/index.php?autocom=gallery&req=user&user=4&op=view_album&album=31

req
04-27-2008, 12:49 PM
i totally made a mistake. the depth of the driver is 5.5" not 9.125


i was a bit toasted that night and i made a mistake in reading that pdf.


my bad :)

hemi4me?
04-27-2008, 01:14 PM
No prob!

I wish someone lived near me in Scottsdale/PHX/Mesa/Tempe AZ. Anyone know a good guy that can make a box here?

email [email protected]