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View Full Version : Got a question for all the people on CA



Kenneth10483
04-20-2008, 10:34 PM
Why do most of you that give people designs for boxes like to use big boxes for subs?

mavster
04-20-2008, 10:36 PM
because the sub requested to have a big box during conception...

its all about the coils and dustcaps...

Propimp
04-20-2008, 10:38 PM
It adds the DB's :fyi: .... I think:D

mokedaddy
04-20-2008, 10:38 PM
Efficiency.

And a few people hear some people who know some people and that is what they do.

Kenneth10483
04-20-2008, 10:41 PM
Well a sub works more efficent in a small enclosure, You have more control over the sub with a smaller box and you can almost ask anyone that competes in SPL Smaller boxes tend to be louder!!!

Kenneth10483
04-20-2008, 10:42 PM
because the sub requested to have a big box during conception...

its all about the coils and dustcaps...


99% of all subs rather a small box compared to a big box with a smaller box I can run almost double the power and will have less wear on the suspension of the sub.

KINGDELL91
04-20-2008, 10:43 PM
smaller boxes are louder hummm OK...

01 S 10
04-20-2008, 10:45 PM
Well a sub works more efficent in a small enclosure, You have more control over the sub with a smaller box and you can almost ask anyone that competes in SPL Smaller boxes tend to be louder!!!

I agree with that, but that usually applies when you have gobs of power to send to the subs.

Daily street beaters might use the larger enclosures for more SPL on less power.

example.. a 15" L7 will work well off 1000 rms in a 4 cube box.

but... a 15" L7 on 2000+ rms might be better in a 2-3 cube box because you will have more control like you were stating.



This is my basic understanding, if i am wrong, please correct me/us

Kenneth10483
04-20-2008, 10:45 PM
I had 4 Kicker CVX 10s not the greatest subs in the world but decent. I had them in a 1 cubic foot ported box each and was doing a 158 outlaw, 155 legal and a 156.5 Street beat( playing music for 30 seconds) and never once had a problem with me destroying those subs and they were powered by 2 Memphis 4000s so I had double the power handling that the subs can take. you try to use that type of sub and power in a bigger enclosure and tell me how long those subs would last..............

Trey803
04-20-2008, 10:48 PM
I use larger boxes for less of a frequency rolloff......but im into sq and sealed boxes

Kenneth10483
04-20-2008, 10:49 PM
Even with lack of power smaller boxes will still work well. Even in classes where power is limited for example Usaci 0-600 I have seen people use up to 6 subs and a very small enclosure and produce very high numbers with them. With L7's I had a box 5 total per sub I dropped down just to 4 cubes total and gained almost 3 DB. Im just trying to see why alot of you rather choose a big box over a small box??

Kenneth10483
04-20-2008, 10:50 PM
30 more seconds and your car would have imploded.

:p:
I usually would do my Street beat run then after demo the car and never had any problems with it after.

ultimate157
04-20-2008, 10:51 PM
It's all in the install.

Random1010
04-20-2008, 10:52 PM
smaller boxes boost mechanical power handling of subs. most daily systems arent running 4x the rms of a sub to it. if they have the rms or slightly less then a bigger box will be more efficient. bigger is more efficient but reduces mech. power handling(to a point). smaller is less efficient but boosts mech. power handl.

kickerlivinloud
04-20-2008, 10:56 PM
smaller boxes are louder hummm OK...


They do tend to be. Most subs will be louder in the smallest recommended box then in the largest recommended box.

Kenneth10483
04-20-2008, 10:59 PM
They do tend to be. Most subs will be louder in the smallest recommended box then in the largest recommended box.

And this is true for SPL and Daily set ups

its_bacon12
04-20-2008, 11:04 PM
you need to build a box specific to the driver. some work better in bigger boxes, some work worse in bigger boxes.

Kenneth10483
04-20-2008, 11:05 PM
you need to build a box specific to the driver. some work better in bigger boxes, some work worse in bigger boxes.

Name a sub that works better in a bigger box?

ultimate157
04-20-2008, 11:09 PM
Name a sub that works better in a bigger box?

Eclipse SW8200. 4.2 sealed flexed my jeep @ 20hz off only 250w rms

Kenneth10483
04-20-2008, 11:10 PM
Funny you should say Eclipse Call the eclipse tech line and ask them what size box they would recommend for the most output of that sub.......

kickerlivinloud
04-20-2008, 11:16 PM
And this is true for SPL and Daily set ups



I would not recommend it for a daily setup. For best results you want a small box and high tuning which is good if you competing with test tones but if you plan on having a DD this would not work well. You will lose your low end with the higher tuned box and mostlikely lose sound quality. This is not %100 sure way of getting higher SPL numbers b/c every car and situation is different but if your going for pure SPL numbers its a good place to start...







Jon

Kenneth10483
04-20-2008, 11:17 PM
Well would you compare a DD sub to a Audioque Sub?

If so, Ask Skip01 how well his 1 12 sounded in a box just big enough to fit the sub and port in for daily tuned low

97gp
04-20-2008, 11:22 PM
There's a reason your woman calls me so much, bigger is better.

Skip01
04-20-2008, 11:23 PM
If so, Ask Skip01 how well his 1 12 sounded in a box just big enough to fit the sub and port in for daily tuned low


And that box was too big ;)


Tuned to mid 40s, no prob crushing the lows

ultimate157
04-20-2008, 11:24 PM
Funny you should say Eclipse Call the eclipse tech line and ask them what size box they would recommend for the most output of that sub.......

Everything you're talking about is frequency dependent.

most output - at what frequency? Maybe I wanted the most output at 20hz. If I wanted my peak frequency to be at 45-50hz, maybe I would throw it in 1 cube sealed, like eclipse recommends, and how I had the sub running.

Do you know why the recommendations are the way they are? Because that is what gives the response curve a semi-"flat" nature with a peak in the middle. This peak creates the illusion to the consumer that their subs are LOUD and can POUND.

DDeitz
04-20-2008, 11:25 PM
:popcorn:

mokedaddy
04-20-2008, 11:28 PM
lol. Its all power and install dependent. Blanket statements do not work in car audio.

If you are using less than rms its usually a good idea to go a little larger box as it ups efficiency.

Using many times rated power or spl most times you will be better of in a smaller box.
Notice either of these conclusions will be applicable in all situations.

mokedaddy
04-20-2008, 11:29 PM
Everything you're talking about is frequency dependent.

most output - at what frequency? Maybe I wanted the most output at 20hz. If I wanted my peak frequency to be at 45-50hz, maybe I would throw it in 1 cube sealed, like eclipse recommends, and how I had the sub running.

Do you know why the recommendations are the way they are? Because that is what gives the response curve a semi-"flat" nature with a peak in the middle. This peak creates the illusion to the consumer that their subs are LOUD and can POUND.

yeah that too.

damonhargroves
04-20-2008, 11:30 PM
lol. you ask us why but you complain and have an excuse for all our answers. dont ask questions if you got a smart *** remark for our answers.

















































that is all

DDeitz
04-20-2008, 11:33 PM
I think he had a legit point..it seems no matter how much power people have on CA.com they like to use larger boxes for the most part.

Kenneth10483
04-20-2008, 11:33 PM
Everything you're talking about is frequency dependent.

most output - at what frequency? Maybe I wanted the most output at 20hz. Because that is what gives the response curve a semi-"flat" nature with a peak in the middle. This peak creates the illusion to the consumer that their subs are LOUD and can POUND.


First off If your going to tune a box to 20 Hz for daily its going to be kind of a waste considering most subs will not perform at that low and secondly you would have to have a wide bandwidth for it to play any type of regular music. I can take a sub build a box for a 12 at 1.5-1.75 tune it low and It will play the lows with good control not like a flutter which you would get out of a big box and also how a strong anf tight bass responce which everyone wants in a daily setup.

kickerlivinloud
04-20-2008, 11:35 PM
lol @ thread.

Agreed

damonhargroves
04-20-2008, 11:36 PM
First off If your going to tune a box to 20 Hz for daily its going to be kind of a waste considering most subs will not perform at that low and secondly you would have to have a wide bandwidth for it to play any type of regular music. I can take a sub build a box for a 12 at 1.5-1.75 tune it low and It will play the lows with good control not like a flutter which you would get out of a big box and also how a strong anf tight bass responce which everyone wants in a daily setup.


I have a 02 2dr Honda Accord and with 2 Kicker CVX 10s on a Power Acoustik 3000db which is maybe 900 watts in a ported probox it was doing a 147.5 outlaw so If you go with 2 L5 10s in a good box shouldnt have no problems doing respectable numbers!!!

^^^ if you are so good at building boxes mr. guru then why do you have a probox? lol! or do you just call your boxes proboxes since you are so good at it.

97gp
04-20-2008, 11:36 PM
Ok hitler, why don't you let us build our boxes how we want.

Kenneth10483
04-20-2008, 11:36 PM
Im not trying to have a Smart A$$ remark im just trying to figure out why most of you insist on using large enclosures mostly from what I seen on here trunk cars they try to cram a hugh box in the trunk and then the sound coming from the trunk cant come out because the box is sheilding it off from the inside of the car.

ultimate157
04-20-2008, 11:37 PM
First off If your going to tune a box to 20 Hz for daily its going to be kind of a waste considering most subs will not perform at that low and secondly you would have to have a wide bandwidth for it to play any type of regular music. I can take a sub build a box for a 12 at 1.5-1.75 tune it low and It will play the lows with good control not like a flutter which you would get out of a big box and also how a strong anf tight bass responce which everyone wants in a daily setup.

I didn't know you can tune a sealed box.

Everyone knows it but you: Install dependent and what the goals of the install are.

Kenneth10483
04-20-2008, 11:38 PM
^^^ if you are so good at building boxes mr. guru then why do you have a probox? lol! or do you just call your boxes proboxes since you are so good at it.
That box was a small box from probox it was 1.25 per sub so of course I didnt have a problem using it since I got it for a good price. And im not saying im the best box builder..

Kenneth10483
04-20-2008, 11:40 PM
I didn't know you can tune a sealed box.

. Well if you ever messed with a 4th order bandpass you will know that you can tune a sealed box because it works off the tuning frequency of the sealed box and the ported enclosure that the sealed box its in to get it its frequency bandwidth......

twisztdpunisher
04-20-2008, 11:42 PM
lol. you ask us why but you complain and have an excuse for all our answers. dont ask questions if you got a smart *** remark for our answers.

















































that is all

yeah really. it all depens on the install. we like big boxes cause big boxes work for what we want.

damonhargroves
04-20-2008, 11:43 PM
Well if you ever messed with a 4th order bandpass you will know that you can tune a sealed box because it works off the tuning frequency of the sealed box and the ported enclosure that the sealed box its in to get it its frequency bandwidth......

wrong! get on crutchfield and read some more noob! o yea and we prolly build big boxes because they sound good to us!

ultimate157
04-20-2008, 11:43 PM
Well if you ever messed with a 4th order bandpass you will know that you can tune a sealed box because it works off the tuning frequency of the sealed box and the ported enclosure that the sealed box its in to get it its frequency bandwidth......

So you're tuning a bandpass enclosure, not a sealed box.

I purposely oversize my enclosures for the sole purpose of flattening the response curve and reinforcing the low-end extension. I like sound quality, I put that before loudness.

twisztdpunisher
04-20-2008, 11:48 PM
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/1398/cimg4209resizedmg0.jpg

is that box to big for my fi btl 15?
here is a link to the build log
http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=277963

mrbomb
04-20-2008, 11:49 PM
:fce2fce:

Skip01
04-20-2008, 11:51 PM
Yehhh this is gonna get no where


But........im building a smaller box for AQs next weekend, so we shall see with those results

Kenneth10483
04-20-2008, 11:53 PM
5 cubic feet for all 4 subs with 3 4" aeroports tuned to 34 hz

Just let me know what day and time

twisztdpunisher
04-20-2008, 11:53 PM
Lol, seat belts for bracing?

NICE!

lol its a tie down strap.
it just holds it up agasint the back of the truck. was gonna bolt it down
where the old seat was but never got around to it and now im switching cars...

SeanDub
04-21-2008, 12:00 PM
So if I got 3 Kicker L7 12s, what box do you think should I put them in for my SUV?

WhoSayWho?
04-21-2008, 12:12 PM
Well if you ever messed with a 4th order bandpass you will know that you can tune a sealed box because it works off the tuning frequency of the sealed box and the ported enclosure that the sealed box its in to get it its frequency bandwidth......

Silly Chalmation.

DDSC
04-21-2008, 12:25 PM
99% of all subs rather a small box compared to a big box with a smaller box I can run almost double the power and will have less wear on the suspension of the sub.

how is that more effecient if it takes double the power to get pretty muchthe same outlput??? Your saying that a speaker taking more power and moving less is more effecient thats also why SPL car/vans turn the whole vechile into a box right:rolleyes:. and even those guys have the boxes tuned high so their peak output isnt going to be when the sub is rreally moving cause its just going bvvvvvvvvvvvvvv at 45 hz.


Alot of people like to move air around here, (hehe we like to pass gas) bigger box means bigger port which means bigger air piston which means more girls get tto lean in your car for the hair trick which means more BOOBS FTMFW!!!!!!!!!!!

:fyi:

helotaxi
04-21-2008, 12:37 PM
Ever looked at the phase response and group delay on one of those undersized boxes, especially ones tuned low? Sorry, if you care about SQ, going with a box that is too small and tuned low sounds like crap. You have less excursion and the driver is overdamped. The result is muddy sound. There's a reason that the SQ guys go with the biggest sealed box that they can (or IB). Those of us that care about SQ but like the efficiency of a ported box take group delay and phase response into account and end up with a correctly sized and tuned box for the sub. For most subs that's a pretty good sized box.

Kenneth10483
04-21-2008, 06:24 PM
I dont have nothing to prove to any of you I know everyone thinks im a noob but I have been doing this for about 10 years. This weekend I will build a box for Skip01 for his 4 12s so at least someone on here will see where im coming from.... Im not hear have enemies. Just hear to have fun and talk about what everyone likes thats on this forum Car Audio.

mokedaddy
04-21-2008, 06:26 PM
I dont think anyone is doubting what you can do or what your knowledge is. You asked a question and got several responses you didnt agree with. No reason to get all defensive. :)