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View Full Version : seems like the RSD's like being crossed low!!



tcguy85
04-13-2008, 01:08 AM
i've been running the rsd65cs set active for the past couple months. over these couple months i have tried a few different crossover points and slopes. i had stuck with 2.5k/24db on the mids and have been going back and forth between 3.15k and 4k at 24db for the tweeters.

well, tonight i felt dangerous and tried crossing the tweets and 2.5k/24db and also moved the mids down a step as well to 2k/24db.

well i am a lil shocked but they sound great this low. i was a little worried about the tweeters at first so i started with the volume low and slowly brought it up and everything seemed fine. i played them pretty loudly for a good hour just sitting in a parking lot listening very carefully. i gave them some goods tests and they passed it all! it actually seemed to mellow out my mid-range even more which i am liking so far. i am realizing that i like a laid back upper mid-range.

i'll report back as to how i feel about the new points in another day or two after i get more time with them like this. hopefully they won't die, but i think if they were going to show signs on trouble they would have done it already.

dftnz7
04-13-2008, 03:10 AM
I probably ought to be running mine active to maximize them...I think you're on the right track with this because I am definitely fighting some problems in the upper midrange with some overpowering vocals that I can't seem to get rid of. Going to pop in a set of ID CTX comps in a couple of days and see if it is a processing problem or a speaker problem. Not having the ability to change my Xover points since I am passive limits my abilities to overcome what could be an inherent issue with the passives. And I just don't want to mess with going active...

nismos14
04-13-2008, 09:40 AM
That tends to happen in vehicle, you'll get some spikes in the 2.5+ range, eq should help you pull them out if you're passive.

BrianChia
04-13-2008, 01:41 PM
Many 6.5" woofers start to have trouble when they are playing up to 3.5-4khz. That's usually where they break up and start to beam high frequencies. Crossing over lower will open up your soundstage and improve off-axis response as long as the tweeters can handle it. 2.5khz with a 4th order slope is not that low at all, many tweeters can handle this fine. The slope does make a big difference.

xhilr8n
04-13-2008, 08:39 PM
where are you doing all the adjustments to change these crossover points? ON the amps, do you have an aftermarket crossover? just trying to learn some more about how i am gonna go about using the RSD's. I have a deposit on two sets at my local shop already.



jason

nismos14
04-13-2008, 08:43 PM
where are you doing all the adjustments to change these crossover points? ON the amps, do you have an aftermarket crossover? just trying to learn some more about how i am gonna go about using the RSD's. I have a deposit on two sets at my local shop already.



jason

He's running active, so on the head unit.

tcguy85
04-13-2008, 10:01 PM
He's running active, so on the head unit.

yessir! using my 880PRS.

2.5k even at 24db seemed low to me but it is still working great.

Dozy_production
04-14-2008, 12:08 PM
He's running active, so on the head unit.

You could also run active off of an amp or external active Xover if there is enough control. Only saying this because it sounds as if you were implying that going active is limited to using xovers on a HU.

nismos14
04-14-2008, 12:13 PM
You could also run active off of an amp or external active Xover if there is enough control. Only saying this because it sounds as if you were implying that going active is limited to using xovers on a HU.

True, I should have worded that differently. "He's running active off his headunit" :)

Dozy_production
04-14-2008, 12:16 PM
True, I should have worded that differently. "He's running active off his headunit" :)

making sure for the newbies ;)

nismos14
04-14-2008, 12:18 PM
making sure for the newbies ;)

They'll probably get confused regardless :D

BrianChia
04-14-2008, 01:11 PM
You could also run active off of an amp or external active Xover if there is enough control. Only saying this because it sounds as if you were implying that going active is limited to using xovers on a HU.

Yes, and running BOTH simultaneously would result in additive slopes --- that means 2 4th orders would result in 48db/octave of attenuation, and you could possible run the tweeters even lower.

Fast1one
04-14-2008, 02:07 PM
Steep slopes sound very unnatural to me other than subwoofers...48db/octave is insane...I can't even live with 24db the majority of the time...it makes it much easier to localize each driver...

BrianChia
04-14-2008, 05:10 PM
Steep slopes sound very unnatural to me other than subwoofers...48db/octave is insane...I can't even live with 24db the majority of the time...it makes it much easier to localize each driver...

Depends on the install and quality of the drivers used. If the drivers are of fairly good quality and exhibit minimal coloration and distortion, imaging and detail can improve with steeper slopes. In a car the differential mounting locations of the woofer and tweeter can sometimes be a problem but with a good install it can work.

tcguy85
04-14-2008, 07:16 PM
Steep slopes sound very unnatural to me other than subwoofers...48db/octave is insane...I can't even live with 24db the majority of the time...it makes it much easier to localize each driver...

steep slopes can work well, especially when the drivers are close together. my T/A measurements say my tweeters are only about 3-4 inches from the mids. so in my case steep slopes work fine.

Fast1one
04-14-2008, 07:40 PM
Depends on the install and quality of the drivers used. If the drivers are of fairly good quality and exhibit minimal coloration and distortion, imaging and detail can improve with steeper slopes. In a car the differential mounting locations of the woofer and tweeter can sometimes be a problem but with a good install it can work.


steep slopes can work well, especially when the drivers are close together. my T/A measurements say my tweeters are only about 3-4 inches from the mids. so in my case steep slopes work fine.Fair enough, its all preference. Some prefer it, others swear by 1st/2nd order slopes. Just with my experience I rarely went over 18db octave...48db is just nuts IMO, you trying to make it a brick wall? :D

tcguy85
04-14-2008, 07:57 PM
Fair enough, its all preference. Some prefer it, others swear by 1st/2nd order slopes. Just with my experience I rarely went over 18db octave...48db is just nuts IMO, you trying to make it a brick wall? :D

in certain cases a "brick wall" might work fine. :D

it's all about playing around till you find what sounds best. thats all.

BrianChia
04-14-2008, 08:30 PM
Fair enough, its all preference. Some prefer it, others swear by 1st/2nd order slopes. Just with my experience I rarely went over 18db octave...48db is just nuts IMO, you trying to make it a brick wall? :D

Yeah it is definitely a personal preference. In some speakers 1st order slopes can sound amazing and the crossover is seamless.

tcguy85
04-14-2008, 08:39 PM
Yeah it is definitely a personal preference. In some speakers 1st order slopes can sound amazing and the crossover is seamless.

yup.... also depends if the speaker naturally rolls off on it's own as well. i know my subwoofer still plays vocals and lower mid-range if i use a 12db slope on it.

Fast1one
04-14-2008, 08:51 PM
yup.... also depends if the speaker naturally rolls off on it's own as well. i know my subwoofer still plays vocals and lower mid-range if i use a 12db slope on it.This is why I see a lot of value in RTA work...you can find the natural roll off of a driver in cabin and use shallow crossovers simply to ADD to the roll off....some of the best cars I have heard used this method...

tcguy85
04-14-2008, 09:01 PM
This is why I see a lot of value in RTA work...you can find the natural roll off of a driver in cabin and use shallow crossovers simply to ADD to the roll off....some of the best cars I have heard used this method...

of course!

there are some that do it that way and some that just tune by ear.

if you are going to compete for SQ i think you'd have to do a lot of each.

BrianChia
04-14-2008, 09:06 PM
This is why I see a lot of value in RTA work...you can find the natural roll off of a driver in cabin and use shallow crossovers simply to ADD to the roll off....some of the best cars I have heard used this method...

That is how any type of "reference" audio sytem, home, car, or professional, should be designed. :)

tcguy85
04-14-2008, 09:10 PM
That is how any type of "reference" audio sytem, home, car, or professional, should be designed. :)

yessir!