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tcguy85
03-24-2008, 11:12 PM
not sure how to word this the best way, but from a speaker manufacturers stand point, what kind of power do they want you to run their speakers at?

take the RSD65cs's for example. they rate them at 60 watts per side. does that really mean they want you to get an amp that does about 60 x 2?

i'm not worried about my warranty(if i even had one) but i'm sure if i blew a mid or a tweeter or whatever and told them they were powered by a DD S4 ran active they would laugh at me.

i'm not a noob BTW, this is a serious question. :)

damonhargroves
03-24-2008, 11:16 PM
youll need a 120x2 not 60 watts divided by 2 channels (if this is what you are asking...)

tcguy85
03-24-2008, 11:18 PM
youll need a 120x2 not 60 watts divided by 2 channels (if this is what you are asking...)

what are you talking about? where did you come up with that?

JLMaster
03-25-2008, 12:56 AM
not sure how to word this the best way, but from a speaker manufacturers stand point, what kind of power do they want you to run their speakers at?

take the RSD65cs's for example. they rate them at 60 watts per side. does that really mean they want you to get an amp that does about 60 x 2?

i'm not worried about my warranty(if i even had one) but i'm sure if i blew a mid or a tweeter or whatever and told them they were powered by a DD S4 ran active they would laugh at me.

i'm not a noob BTW, this is a serious question. :)

Yes, Im 90% sure....

tcguy85
03-25-2008, 01:02 AM
Yes, Im 90% sure....

of what?

btw, i posted this same thread over on diyma, always impresses me at the responses i get there compared to here.... http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34272

tsenfw
03-25-2008, 02:13 AM
If diyma impresses you so much why do you even bother posting here? lol

Companies rate their RMS very very conservatively because they don't want to deal with warranty issues. Even really quality driver manufacturers will have conservative ratings when you know they can take some more: ex FI, RE, etc, etc.

tcguy85
03-25-2008, 02:17 AM
If diyma impresses you so much why do you even bother posting here? lol

Companies rate their RMS very very conservatively because they don't want to deal with warranty issues. Even really quality driver manufacturers will have conservative ratings when you know they can take some more: ex FI, RE, etc, etc.

idk, good question. :)

but anyway, the companies should also realize their speakers won't sound anywhere near as good as possible with only their rated power.

tsenfw
03-25-2008, 02:24 AM
idk, good question. :)

but anyway, the companies should also realize their speakers won't sound anywhere near as good as possible with only their rated power.

meh, it varies upon driver. My pioneer revs respond well to lower power (60 watts rms or below) and sound really good. Like you I'm setting gain by ear. I know they aren't seeing near the 100 watt capabillity of my amp. They just don't seem to tolerate the power if I turn the gain up anymore. Probably right around rms or little bit higher. Nothing compared to the rsd's power handling I would assume.

How much do you guestimate you are sending the rsd's?

tcguy85
03-25-2008, 02:28 AM
meh, it varies upon driver. My pioneer revs respond well to lower power (60 watts rms or below) and sound really good. Like you I'm setting gain by ear. I know they aren't seeing near the 100 watt capabillity of my amp. They just don't seem to tolerate the power if I turn the gain up anymore. Probably right around rms or little bit higher. Nothing compared to the rsd's power handling I would assume.

How much do you guestimate you are sending the rsd's?

i really have no idea. but i do know that my clip light on my S4 lights up for a split second every now and then. so i guess i am meeting the rated rail voltage for a split second at times. :)

JLMaster
03-25-2008, 03:07 AM
If you ask a question please remember it, your original question was "does that really mean they want you to get an amp that does about 60 x 2?"

and to that, Yes, Im 90% sure.

Now, I mean, you have some speakers, as stated before, that can obviously take more than what they're rated, but then you get into voiding warranties...

tcguy85
03-25-2008, 03:18 AM
If you ask a question please remember it, your original question was "does that really mean they want you to get an amp that does about 60 x 2?"

and to that, Yes, Im 90% sure.

Now, I mean, you have some speakers, as stated before, that can obviously take more than what they're rated, but then you get into voiding warranties...

i remembered my question. lol.

who needs warranties??? :D

BrianChia
03-25-2008, 04:16 AM
idk, good question. :)

but anyway, the companies should also realize their speakers won't sound anywhere near as good as possible with only their rated power.

You have to remember that all a power rating implies is that the speaker will be able to see 60W continuously without thermal or mechanical failure. It has absolutely no bearing or implication on what amp to use. Can the said speaker see more power? Of course it can, but perhaps not continuously. It can probably handle 120W without a problem in transients. But the manufacturer cannot guarantee this, so the claim is not made. When rating speakers, RMS is an average (root mean square) of the total power seen and it implies that the speaker can handle that amount of power continuously.

Remember, when you hook up a speaker to a 120W RMS rated amp, the amp is never producing 120W RMS unless you are playing a contuous sine wave with the amp turned all the way up. Therefore, the speaker never actually sees 120W continuously. With a 120W RMS amp, the speaker may only be seeing 50W on average and up to 130W in transients. Still, most of the time the speaker will rarely see the rated power of the amp for long periods of time. Of course, that means that a 60W RMS amp will never deliver 60W RMS to the speaker, unless you are listening to sine waves.

Also keep in mind that the overall response, distortion, and tonality of the speaker does NOT change depending on the power input. It is fairly constant (with the exception of thermal issues). So it is incorrect to say that the speaker won't sound as good as possible on less power. Technically it just won't be as loud. However, dynamics DO affect the perceived sound quality and amplifier power headroom is key here. A 120W RMS amp will typically have better dynamics than a 60W RMS amp if both are producing 60W RMS. Furthermore, a cheap 60W amp pushing 60W will run hot and distort more than a 120W RMS amp running cooler well below its threshold. You should ALWAYS consider an amp that will give you ample head room especially if you will be listening frequently at high levels. Contrary to popular practice, you don't have to be squeezing every last drop out of your amplifier at the lowest impedance possible. Instead you should buy an amp that is capable of more power than you need and drive it at moderate levels. This is especially true if you are trying to maintain sound quality at loud listening levels.

So to answer your question, the power rating has little to do (at least directly) with what amplifier to use. It is a rating of how much power the speaker can see and should not determine the power capabilities or quality of your amplifier.

tcguy85
03-25-2008, 09:56 AM
You have to remember that all a power rating implies is that the speaker will be able to see 60W continuously without thermal or mechanical failure. It has absolutely no bearing or implication on what amp to use. Can the said speaker see more power? Of course it can, but perhaps not continuously. It can probably handle 120W without a problem in transients. But the manufacturer cannot guarantee this, so the claim is not made. When rating speakers, RMS is an average (root mean square) of the total power seen and it implies that the speaker can handle that amount of power continuously.

Remember, when you hook up a speaker to a 120W RMS rated amp, the amp is never producing 120W RMS unless you are playing a contuous sine wave with the amp turned all the way up. Therefore, the speaker never actually sees 120W continuously. With a 120W RMS amp, the speaker may only be seeing 50W on average and up to 130W in transients. Still, most of the time the speaker will rarely see the rated power of the amp for long periods of time. Of course, that means that a 60W RMS amp will never deliver 60W RMS to the speaker, unless you are listening to sine waves.

Also keep in mind that the overall response, distortion, and tonality of the speaker does NOT change depending on the power input. It is fairly constant (with the exception of thermal issues). So it is incorrect to say that the speaker won't sound as good as possible on less power. Technically it just won't be as loud. However, dynamics DO affect the perceived sound quality and amplifier power headroom is key here. A 120W RMS amp will typically have better dynamics than a 60W RMS amp if both are producing 60W RMS. Furthermore, a cheap 60W amp pushing 60W will run hot and distort more than a 120W RMS amp running cooler well below its threshold. You should ALWAYS consider an amp that will give you ample head room especially if you will be listening frequently at high levels. Contrary to popular practice, you don't have to be squeezing every last drop out of your amplifier at the lowest impedance possible. Instead you should buy an amp that is capable of more power than you need and drive it at moderate levels. This is especially true if you are trying to maintain sound quality at loud listening levels.

So to answer your question, the power rating has little to do (at least directly) with what amplifier to use. It is a rating of how much power the speaker can see and should not determine the power capabilities or quality of your amplifier.

nice!

:handclap: