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View Full Version : Phoenix Gold Ti6 MIDs opinions..



rc10mike
03-10-2008, 08:24 PM
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=6218

Anyone used them? I was thinking of running these active with a set of tweeters I already have. They seem pretty good. Whats up with the 20hz-20khz response on a mid?

MikeyB
03-10-2008, 09:46 PM
I was checkin into these as well, seems like a good price for a pair of mids if they can actually handle the claimed 300wrms.

MikeyB
03-10-2008, 09:48 PM
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=6220

I also noticed these, much cheaper and they are rated at 150wrms which is more of the power I will be running

xplicitACTS
03-10-2008, 09:52 PM
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=6220

I also noticed these, much cheaper and they are rated at 150wrms which is more of the power I will be running

That is the same thing, but only a single mid.;)

The Ti6 is a Morel made woofer, Morel is Not everyones cup of tea.

tcguy85
03-10-2008, 09:54 PM
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=6220

I also noticed these, much cheaper and they are rated at 150wrms which is more of the power I will be running

thats the same thing, just the price for a single one, not a pair. and it seems that the power handling is 150 each. the listing for the single one says 150 watts, the listing for the pair says 300watts

tcguy85
03-10-2008, 09:55 PM
The Ti6 is a Morel made woofer, Morel is Not everyones cup of tea.

whats wrong with morel?

rc10mike
03-10-2008, 10:02 PM
Yeah whats up with Morel?

They are 300w total rms.


I plan on using a JL 450/4 and pushing 150w to each mid and 75w to each tweeter active. I also plan on doing a full and extensive door deaden.

MikeyB
03-10-2008, 10:02 PM
thats the same thing, just the price for a single one, not a pair. and it seems that the power handling is 150 each. the listing for the single one says 150 watts, the listing for the pair says 300watts

Ahhh I see that now. Seem pretty beefy lookin, its got a **** 3in coil.....

xplicitACTS
03-10-2008, 10:07 PM
Nothing wrong with morel, but as i said they are not for everyone....like in the way that some people are not fan of the Focal tweeters.

rc10mike
03-10-2008, 10:21 PM
Well, I may just try them

tcguy85
03-10-2008, 10:24 PM
Nothing wrong with morel, but as i said they are not for everyone....like in the way that some people are not fan of the Focal tweeters.

can you be a little more specific? can you describe "the morel sound"?

rc10mike
03-10-2008, 10:30 PM
Yeah whats the "Morel sound"?

I can see how people can like or dislike tweeters because of being harsh or soft, but a mid? Do they have low bass output or something?

tcguy85
03-10-2008, 10:42 PM
Yeah whats the "Morel sound"?

I can see how people can like or dislike tweeters because of being harsh or soft, but a mid? Do they have low bass output or something?

with a 3 inch coil i would expect them to be able to make a lot of mid-bass. but the mid-range might be lacking because a big coil means a lot of moving mass, which could hurt mid-range.

rc10mike
03-10-2008, 10:55 PM
Yeah, Im kind of worried about that^. Theres only 1 way to find out....

xplicitACTS
03-10-2008, 10:59 PM
Yeah, Im kind of worried about that^. Theres only 1 way to find out....

I use a PHASS NEo mid that uses a 3" coil and do dnot have that problem.;)

tcguy85
03-10-2008, 11:00 PM
Yeah, Im kind of worried about that^. Theres only 1 way to find out....

maybe email PG, ask them how high they should be played. i could be totally wrong with my prior statement.

tcguy85
03-10-2008, 11:02 PM
I use a PHASS NEo mid that uses a 3" coil and do dnot have that problem.;)

yea my prior statement could be wrong. it was only a guess.

ItalynStylion
03-16-2008, 02:24 PM
I just found these as well and stumbled on this thread....here are some specs

http://www.audiojunkies.com/product_images/400/phoenix-gold-ti6-mid-65.jpg

ItalynStylion
03-16-2008, 02:26 PM
http://media.audiojunkies.com/phoenix-gold-morel-midrange-speakers-image.jpg

tcguy85
03-16-2008, 02:32 PM
i wonder if these would be an upgrade from the rsd mids.

ItalynStylion
03-16-2008, 02:43 PM
The only question I need answered is are they an upgrade from the Focal 165V1 mids. I'm running the full component system and am thinking about getting these to run in an active system :)

mokedaddy
03-16-2008, 02:49 PM
The only question I need answered is are they an upgrade from the Focal 165V1 mids. I'm running the full component system and am thinking about getting these to run in an active system :)

If I get the p9 my morels will be for sale and you could try those even though they are a little more expensive.

tcguy85
03-16-2008, 02:50 PM
The only question I need answered is are they an upgrade from the Focal 165V1 mids. I'm running the full component system and am thinking about getting these to run in an active system :)

try what you have active first. if you still feel the need to upgrade then do it.

ItalynStylion
03-16-2008, 03:01 PM
I've read some reviews that say the Ti's like power. If I only have 100RMS to give to these mids, would that be doing them a disservice?

miker
03-16-2008, 03:02 PM
i wonder if these would be an upgrade from the rsd mids.

Hmm, that confuses me.. So do the PG RSD's have good crossovers or something? What makes them good? Or is everything just all around really good? And if these are an upgrade of the RSD's then they're like the best mi-range speakers ever? lol

ItalynStylion
03-16-2008, 03:04 PM
Just so we're clear; we're not talking about the component system....just the mids ;)

tcguy85
03-16-2008, 03:07 PM
Hmm, that confuses me.. So do the PG RSD's have good crossovers or something? What makes them good? Or is everything just all around really good? And if these are an upgrade of the RSD's then they're like the best mi-range speakers ever? lol

hahahah. the rsd's aren't the best, there really is no "best" speaker. the rsd's are very good though, just good all around. just a good sounding set that happens to take an *** load of power. passive crossovers are just passive crossovers, the crossover points are preset where PG thinks they might sound acceptable in most installs. the right way is to go active and set your own points and slopes. the rsd's crossovers are nothing special, and in my car didn't work to well.

also i started a thread on diymobileaudio.com to see if anybody over there has heard anything about the Ti mids.... http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33683

miker
03-16-2008, 03:49 PM
hahahah. the rsd's aren't the best, there really is no "best" speaker. the rsd's are very good though, just good all around. just a good sounding set that happens to take an *** load of power. passive crossovers are just passive crossovers, the crossover points are preset where PG thinks they might sound acceptable in most installs. the right way is to go active and set your own points and slopes. the rsd's crossovers are nothing special, and in my car didn't work to well.

also i started a thread on diymobileaudio.com to see if anybody over there has heard anything about the Ti mids.... http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33683

Haha, I know. But IF these mids would be a good upgrade to the RSD's then they must be pretty **** amazing? right?

tcguy85
03-16-2008, 03:52 PM
Haha, I know. But IF these mids would be a good upgrade to the RSD's then they must be pretty **** amazing? right?

yea but the one answer i got on diyma so far to this question says they lack mid-bass so no. lol

miker
03-16-2008, 03:53 PM
yea but the one answer i got on diyma so far to this question says they lack mid-bass so no. lol

haha, well that would make them pointless then. . .

tcguy85
03-16-2008, 03:57 PM
haha, well that would make them pointless then. . .

if that is in fact the truth then yes they would be useless to me. i love mid-bass now that i actually have some. :)

tcguy85
03-16-2008, 05:00 PM
here is the second answer i got from DIYMA.com


Quote:
Originally Posted by 89grand View Post
I could be wrong, but I thought those didn't make **** for midbass. I think they had low frequency sensitivity issues.

I've heard the same thing, low midbass output. Here's a short review from an older thread.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...x+gold+ti%2 A

Quote:
Originally Posted by mvw2 View Post
I've used the Ti6 woofer. They're dead flat from 150Hz to 2kHz. Low frequency sensitivity is not good below 150Hz and high frequency sensitivity is rising and overpowering above.

The woofers are very much geared for small, sealed kickpanel use. They are not designed for door use. Understand this when you buy them. Both low frequency response and powerhandling is GREATLY improved if you run them in their intended small, sealed enclosures. I've run them in the doors. They are not happy there. Xmax is just 3mm which is a very limiting factor for output. Along with poor low frequency sensitivity down low, you're sitting at 100Hz or higher for a X-over point. I thought they sounded best in the 125Hz to 150Hz range. This gets them above their roll off point and doesn't rely on their low excursion levels. There's no chance at crossing below 80Hz. They'll just bottom out at anything above normal listening levels after you EQ up the response to a useable level. Throw them in kick panels you'll be very happy. Throw them in the doors unsealed, you will be very disappointed. Also, the passive crossver is crossed way up at 3kHz which is not favorable for being heavily off-axis, again a point for kick panels.

The pricing is pretty good. It's around where PG was selling them through PG Direct back when they were discontinued prior to their recontinuation.

I wouldn't mind seeing their MT-22 based tweeters sold seperately too.

so DO NOT mount them in your doors and expect great results!

ItalynStylion
03-16-2008, 05:55 PM
^I just read that....disappointing to say the least. Oh well.

tcguy85
03-16-2008, 06:08 PM
maybe grab the ID/OEM mids that are in the classified section, if i needed new mids i'd try them out.

miker
03-16-2008, 06:25 PM
How about for r ear fill?? I could probably make a nice sealed enclosure that would fit in my rear deck.

Not saying I will, but would that be a good application?

xplicitACTS
03-16-2008, 06:28 PM
How about for r ear fill?? I could probably make a nice sealed enclosure that would fit in my rear deck.

Not saying I will, but would that be a good application?

I would say take the cash you were going to invest in your rear fill and put it in your front stage.;)

miker
03-16-2008, 06:30 PM
I would say take the cash you were going to invest in your rear fill and put it in your front stage.;)

mm, yes. Deaden it,and get a new amp. and fiberglass.

tcguy85
03-16-2008, 06:31 PM
I would say take the cash you were going to invest in your rear fill and put it in your front stage.;)

yup, no sense in rear fill anyway. spend a ton on your front stage then find a sub that suits your needs and you'll be happy.

miker
03-16-2008, 06:33 PM
yup, no sense in rear fill anyway. spend a ton on your front stage then find a sub that suits your needs and you'll be happy.

I have a sub that suites my needs.. It's finding a box, thats the hard part, lol.

And the fact that my car doesn't want to get loud..

Fast1one
03-17-2008, 09:21 PM
I just found these as well and stumbled on this thread....here are some specs

http://www.audiojunkies.com/product_images/400/phoenix-gold-ti6-mid-65.jpg

This is why it is ESSENTIAL that you guys check the T/S parameters before buying woofers, ESPECIALLY when dealing with midbass response. There seems to be a lot of guess work, but here really is not guess work at all...with such a large coil I would expect the QES to be very low, and this chart confirms my beliefs...

Its no surprise, with a QTS of .33 this would lack midbass in an IB or sealed alignment. These would be much better off in a home alignment in a bass reflex...

Simple rules of thumb when choosing midbass drivers in IB or sealed alignments. Keep in mind that you still need experiences from others for the midrange response...

QTS: Aim for AT LEAST .5 or higher, preferably in the .7+ range. Ever wonder why the RSDs have such great midbass? IIRC, their Q falls between .7-.9

FS: One could argue just as important, but IMO comes second to QTS. A good way to compare drivers is to take FS/QTS. The lower number, the better for IB or sealed pods...

X-max: With these drivers, it is essential to have plenty of throw to work with. A higher QTS means either a weaker motor, soft suspension, or both so you may run out of throw very quickly, especially when the Q surpasses the 1.0 level.

There are obviously trade offs for each, but higher Q drivers have higher sensitivity, roll off closer to their FS (extend lower), and are "Punchier".

tcguy85
03-17-2008, 09:29 PM
This is why it is ESSENTIAL that you guys check the T/S parameters before buying woofers, ESPECIALLY when dealing with midbass response. There seems to be a lot of guess work, but here really is not guess work at all...with such a large coil I would expect the QES to be very low, and this chart confirms my beliefs...

Its no surprise, with a QTS of .33 this would lack midbass in an IB or sealed alignment. These would be much better off in a home alignment in a bass reflex...

Simple rules of thumb when choosing midbass drivers in IB or sealed alignments. Keep in mind that you still need experiences from others for the midrange response...

QTS: Aim for AT LEAST .5 or higher, preferably in the .7+ range. Ever wonder why the RSDs have such great midbass? IIRC, their Q falls between .7-.9

FS: One could argue just as important, but IMO comes second to QTS. A good way to compare drivers is to take FS/QTS. The lower number, the better for IB or sealed pods...

X-max: With these drivers, it is essential to have plenty of throw to work with. A higher QTS means either a weaker motor, soft suspension, or both so you may run out of throw very quickly, especially when the Q surpasses the 1.0 level.

There are obviously trade offs for each, but higher Q drivers have higher sensitivity, roll off closer to their FS (extend lower), and are "Punchier".

.68 on the rsd65cs's
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n159/cavalier94sq/IMG_2349.jpg

edzy
03-18-2008, 03:33 PM
I am running a set of the TI Comps. I would not buy them again. I had them on 300 wrms as stated, Cone separation ftl. Tweets smoked twice. PG warrantied them. These were run thru a PG SX4600 amp. Now I have em running at 100. Still not as impressed as They claim i should be. I do like the look of the X-over, But it fails at keeping the tweets cossed where they need to be.

rc10mike
03-19-2008, 02:04 AM
Dang, its seems when something looks TOO good for the price, they probably ****, Ill stick with my REVs for now.

Fast1one
03-19-2008, 02:15 AM
.68 on the rsd65cs's
Told yas ;)

tcguy85
03-19-2008, 02:58 AM
Told yas ;)

not an expert on T/S specs but thats good right?

Fast1one
03-19-2008, 10:45 PM
not an expert on T/S specs but thats good right?Depends on your application....

Qts is a function of the mechanical strength (suspension) and electrical strength (motor). The higher the number, the weaker or looser the combination of suspension/motor.

This can be good or bad depending on what you are shooting for. In a vented application, generally you want high motor/suspension stiffness so the woofer won't flop around...you also get higher power handling

The trade off is lower sensitivity and the woofer rolls off a lot quicker in a sealed/IB application. The transient response (the ability of the woofer to play notes quickly and accurately) is also negatively effected...

So what do we want for midbass? We want impact, high sensitivity, and a smooth roll off to blend well with a subwoofer. A higher QTS gives us all of this...

edzy
03-19-2008, 11:51 PM
May want to look at USD
The USD - 622 run $80 each
The USD - 7pro are $300 each
I have a pair of the 622's. Very smooth sound.


http://cgi.ebay.com/USD-Audio-1-pair-6-5-inch-4-ohm-Mid-Woofer-80-W-Max_W0QQitemZ140216816964QQihZ004QQcategoryZ18802Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem