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View Full Version : what are some good ways to brace a ported box (8 cube) ????



babaganoush123
01-02-2008, 10:04 AM
what are some good ways to brace a ported box (8 cube) ????
its for a fi btl 18 its a 8 cube box ported????

htownplaya456
01-02-2008, 10:46 AM
definitely concrete

60ndown
01-02-2008, 10:49 AM
2x4s or threaded rod.

babaganoush123
01-02-2008, 10:50 AM
lol dude thats alot of ****in weight im talking about using wood or light weight pipes be specific?????

thegreatestpenn
01-02-2008, 10:59 AM
look at build pics in some of the other threads to get ideas. threaded rods are a good idea because they don't take up much space, but are very strong. don't forget to double-baffle either

15nissen
01-02-2008, 02:25 PM
lol dude thats alot of ****in weight im talking about using wood or light weight pipes be specific?????

do not use wood. Buy treaded rod if you must. Box dimensions should be taken into consideration as well, a 2x baffle in most cases is just fine.

audioarsonal
01-02-2008, 02:28 PM
The box itself is going to way a **** load anyway so what is another couple pounds for bracing?
Threaded rod is going to be the best least invasive method.Otherwise you'll have to redo the deminsions to accomendate the wood bracing!!!

audiobahnuser18
01-02-2008, 02:49 PM
you can do threaded rod's or you can do two wooden dowl's. but im not sure if that would hold up well for a BTL 18

audioarsonal
01-02-2008, 02:52 PM
With the size of the box I wouldn't recomend dowels.Maybe 2x4's....

mrogowski
01-02-2008, 02:57 PM
Wood bracing doesn't take up that much space, unless you are doing a lattice-like bracing scheme. Take two full size MDF pieces (the same as the inside dimensions of your box) and punch 4" holes in them spaced 1" apart. Mount the "window" braces on each side of the driver. You will then have strength on all four sides of the box and not just front-to-back.

audioarsonal
01-02-2008, 03:15 PM
That's a lot of 4" holes.I would just do double baffle and 2x4's or threaded rod and be done.Threaded rod would be easiest.

12VoltInstaller
01-02-2008, 03:16 PM
if you would like to brace the enclosure with materials you already have laying around...you can take your piece of MDF that fits like a divider would then swiss cheeze it....or cut out cosmetically pleasing and strategically placed holes to minimize the amount of material to decrease the amount of displacement and restricted air flow. Make the holes at least 3" when using a hole saw....or get creative and make shapes like a celic knot has in them....they look cool and as long as you cut them correctly they will have solid structure. If you cannot see the internal brace from any direction...the cosmetics do not matter at that point.

Also, if you would like to try to eliminate standing waves, insert small pieces roughly 2 1/2" wide by 3-4 inches long evenly or not so evenly spaced the length of the long walls of the enclosure...basically cut the 2 1/2" long side to a 45 deg. so they fill the corners of the enclosure but do not elimiate the entire air space. This will allow the sound waves to bouce off the corner instead of accumulating in the corners and causing a dead spot.

Just some food for thought

audioarsonal
01-02-2008, 03:18 PM
^^^^I think that is what MROGOWSKI was saying.

12VoltInstaller
01-02-2008, 03:18 PM
the rods will only brace the enclosure right at the point of penetratin though the enclosure....out to a radius around the rod depending on how thick the material is....it does work well...but not entirely as well as a baffle/lattice type bracing panel would

12VoltInstaller
01-02-2008, 03:19 PM
^^^^I think that is what MROGOWSKI was saying.

ya he posted when I was typing my response...Im at work...I have to help customers too...lol

audioarsonal
01-02-2008, 03:22 PM
He was concerned about weight so the threaded rod would be a slightly better choice IMO.

audioarsonal
01-02-2008, 03:23 PM
My bad....Customer service>internet.

12VoltInstaller
01-02-2008, 03:39 PM
LOL.... WORRIED ABOUT WEIGHT AND HAS AN 8FT3 BOX????????????? HMMM AM i MISSING SOMETHING HERE? HA HA HA

audioarsonal
01-02-2008, 03:54 PM
That was my point tooo!!!

12VoltInstaller
01-02-2008, 04:04 PM
I had a 8ft3 box that was 1.5 inch thick on all walls and 3/4 on the floor....I thought I was gonna poop out my guts when I took it out once.....it had the subs in it too...but OMG anyway.....

So I wanna drag race my car but I want 8 15's too...what do you suggest I do.....


get 2 cars.....sorry wasnt really this thread...just thought Id add my $.02

audioarsonal
01-02-2008, 04:11 PM
I don't think he really knows what he wants other then to say "I got a 15 with 8 cubezzzz....watch my box flex with the beat!!!!"
You can't have a big box without proper bracing!Just brace the fu@k out that **** and don't worry bout the weight.

12VoltInstaller
01-02-2008, 05:45 PM
Well at least he has the right idea of using the FI BTL 18... i think he knows what he wants...but how to make 100lbs of **** fit in a 50 lb bag....or preferrably a 35lb bag....might be the tough part....lol

babaganoush123
01-02-2008, 08:12 PM
Any Pics Of The The Thread Rods And How Or What To Use To Keep Them In The Box Lol Ima Be Running 2000+ Watts Maybe Reach To 4000+ If I Get Me The Atomic 5000.1 Amp.
I Might Go With 2 15s Btl Not Sure Yet Any Wayssss........

IgnoreMe
01-02-2008, 11:56 PM
Any Pics Of The The Thread Rods And How Or What To Use To Keep Them In The Box Lol Ima Be Running 2000+ Watts Maybe Reach To 4000+ If I Get Me The Atomic 5000.1 Amp.
I Might Go With 2 15s Btl Not Sure Yet Any Wayssss........

just use 1 1/4" dowls. they work just fine.

Lakota
01-03-2008, 12:14 AM
Any Pics Of The The Thread Rods And How Or What To Use To Keep Them In The Box Lol Ima Be Running 2000+ Watts Maybe Reach To 4000+ If I Get Me The Atomic 5000.1 Amp.
I Might Go With 2 15s Btl Not Sure Yet Any Wayssss........

1) Cut the rod to where it's a few inches longer that the entire external dimension of where you're wanting to brace.
2) Drill two holes for the rod to go through.
3) Put a washer and nut on the inside threads of the rod inside of the box. Tighten them enough so where the rod is tight in the box. Don't over tighten.
4) Put a washer and nut on the outside of the box where the remaining thread is and tighten.

This method is much better than dowels, imo.

mlstrass
01-03-2008, 01:40 AM
This is an 8.5^3 box I did last summer. Double baffle on top for the sub, a few strap braces, and window bracing...

Hope you have a heated garage to build in as it's COLD outside :crazy:

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/5894/1001446sz9.jpg

PV Audio
01-03-2008, 02:28 AM
the rods will only brace the enclosure right at the point of penetratin though the enclosure....out to a radius around the rod depending on how thick the material is....it does work well...but not entirely as well as a baffle/lattice type bracing panel wouldYes, but consider this is being done after the fact, so that's really next to impossible to implement now.

Lakota
01-03-2008, 02:38 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/Lakota/100_0532.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/Lakota/100_0531.jpg

12VoltInstaller
01-03-2008, 08:52 PM
Yes, but consider this is being done after the fact, so that's really next to impossible to implement now.

Where the H does it say that the box is already done?

12VoltInstaller
01-03-2008, 08:54 PM
1) Cut the rod to where it's a few inches longer that the entire external dimension of where you're wanting to brace.
2) Drill two holes for the rod to go through.
3) Put a washer and nut on the inside threads of the rod inside of the box. Tighten them enough so where the rod is tight in the box. Don't over tighten.
4) Put a washer and nut on the outside of the box where the remaining thread is and tighten.

This method is much better than dowels, imo.

I agree. Dowels will have a considerable resonant quality you may want to consider...depending on how long they are.

12VoltInstaller
01-03-2008, 08:57 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/Lakota/100_0532.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/Lakota/100_0531.jpg

are you for real? Your showing a duct taped enclosure...and how "this is how its done?" What happens when it gets to 130 deg. in your trunk? You just go back through and add another "fresh layer"???....I see the rods how you used them...that part works just fine.....single layer baffle....ehhh ok.....and why 2 rods? Thats kinda a short baffle for such over kill....does that box keep your bottle of CRYS chilled too?.....wow...I just keep looking at this....are those Aero Ports too???? Not too worried port flutter?

Lakota
01-03-2008, 09:29 PM
I agree. Dowels will have a considerable resonant quality you may want to consider...depending on how long they are.

Hmm... I wasn't aware that dowels need washers and have threads for nuts.

Lakota
01-03-2008, 09:35 PM
are you for real? Your showing a duct taped enclosure...and how "this is how its done?" What happens when it gets to 130 deg. in your trunk? You just go back through and add another "fresh layer"???....I see the rods how you used them...that part works just fine.....single layer baffle....ehhh ok.....and why 2 rods? Thats kinda a short baffle for such over kill.

I've never had a problem with duct tape. You shouldn't have a problem with good quality tape. I don't have a trunk btw, I drive a truck. Yeah the rod probably is overkill, but what the hell? It's not hurting anything. Besides, this was one of my first boxes that I ever made, I don't run it anymore. 2 rods spreads the load over a larger area rather than a single concentrated spot, which decreases pressure. Pressure = Force/Area in case you didn't know.

babaganoush123
01-03-2008, 09:52 PM
Lol So Whats The Best Brace Way? I Was Lookin At The Rods What Do You Think...

Lakota
01-03-2008, 09:55 PM
Lol So Whats The Best Brace Way? I Was Lookin At The Rods What Do You Think...

Rods are the best way. Much better than using wood. Do a search on here because I know that there are others threads on this same topic.

12VoltInstaller
01-03-2008, 10:22 PM
Hmm... I wasn't aware that dowels need washers and have threads for nuts.

?????? What are you reading? Are we reading the same forum?

12VoltInstaller
01-03-2008, 10:23 PM
I've never had a problem with duct tape. You shouldn't have a problem with good quality tape. I don't have a trunk btw, I drive a truck. Yeah the rod probably is overkill, but what the hell? It's not hurting anything. Besides, this was one of my first boxes that I ever made, I don't run it anymore. 2 rods spreads the load over a larger area rather than a single concentrated spot, which decreases pressure. Pressure = Force/Area in case you didn't know.

You dont need to get all NEUTONIAN on me.... if you did the equation...you would have found that only a single rod would have been nec. for that application....I mean if its that important...why dont you just put your subs in a jail of threaded steel rod....at least someone wont steal your good ideas that way!

12VoltInstaller
01-03-2008, 10:27 PM
if the box is already in place and fabricated the rods are the least expensive and most effective for the "Pressure = Force/Area" so generously offered by Lakota...just in case we didnt know.

IgnoreMe
01-03-2008, 10:30 PM
if you would like to brace the enclosure with materials you already have laying around...you can take your piece of MDF that fits like a divider would then swiss cheeze it....or cut out cosmetically pleasing and strategically placed holes to minimize the amount of material to decrease the amount of displacement and restricted air flow. Make the holes at least 3" when using a hole saw....or get creative and make shapes like a celic knot has in them....they look cool and as long as you cut them correctly they will have solid structure. If you cannot see the internal brace from any direction...the cosmetics do not matter at that point.

Also, if you would like to try to eliminate standing waves, insert small pieces roughly 2 1/2" wide by 3-4 inches long evenly or not so evenly spaced the length of the long walls of the enclosure...basically cut the 2 1/2" long side to a 45 deg. so they fill the corners of the enclosure but do not elimiate the entire air space. This will allow the sound waves to bouce off the corner instead of accumulating in the corners and causing a dead spot.

Just some food for thought

LOL. standing waves in subbass freqs.

the wavelengths are WAY to long to be of any issue for that freq region.

12VoltInstaller
01-03-2008, 10:34 PM
so your suggesting there is never an instance in a sub woofer enclosure that will result in standing waves internally?

IgnoreMe
01-03-2008, 10:35 PM
so your suggesting there is never an instance in a sub woofer enclosure that will result in standing waves internally?

standing waves are a non issue for subbass freq in enclosures due to their size.

Lakota
01-03-2008, 10:58 PM
You dont need to get all NEUTONIAN on me.... if you did the equation...you would have found that only a single rod would have been nec. for that application....I mean if its that important...why dont you just put your subs in a jail of threaded steel rod....at least someone wont steal your good ideas that way!

I do things the way that I do because of reasons. What good is it to do something if you don't understand why?

Lakota
01-03-2008, 10:59 PM
standing waves are a non issue for subbass freq in enclosures due to their size.

What do you know?
:)

Lakota
01-03-2008, 11:02 PM
?????? What are you reading? Are we reading the same forum?

You commented on my comment about how to put threaded rod in a box. However, the comment that you left was about dowels, not rod. Did you even read what I typed before you responded?

12VoltInstaller
01-04-2008, 12:01 AM
Ok...dude...if your gonna try to dig on me....why did you buy a MAZDA and still think and post that its a MAZDA.... Thats a FORD RANGER DOOOD....and you tuned your enclosure to 40hz in a less than extended cab truck....I bet it rocks at your bumper....152.8 at the bumper...on the TL...stiff....what?

Ok...secondly....you do things for a reason. Extrapolate on your reasoning.....


Please...someone that is clear of mind....read this thread....am I the only one in here that is reading all this unclearly....after all these posts....about setting up bracing...and we have come to this?

The quote on the agreement of mine to your post....had you quoted about your post on the threaded rod...not the dowels....I do not agree with the resonant quality of the dowels in such a high power application. I was agreeing with you....and your gonna attack me for that? wow

and your post about the standing waves and or cancelling waves in the enclosure being a non issue..... Im not buying it. Are you basing that off of theory...or actually sitting inside the enclosure with a mic measuring Db ratings in the corners.???? In that large of an enclosure...you dont think you will have reflected waves from the windshield back to the back of the enclosure? Omni directional and free to bounce where they want. Having a pocket of area that isnt designed for or at least an attempt at making the area as unavailable for cancelling waves as possible....your saying would be a moot point?

It sounds like your designing enclosures to play one note...once. in that case. You'd be right

IgnoreMe
01-04-2008, 12:08 AM
Ok...dude...if your gonna try to dig on me....why did you buy a MAZDA and still think and post that its a MAZDA.... Thats a FORD RANGER DOOOD....and you tuned your enclosure to 40hz in a less than extended cab truck....I bet it rocks at your bumper....152.8 at the bumper...on the TL...stiff....what?

Ok...secondly....you do things for a reason. Extrapolate on your reasoning.....


Please...someone that is clear of mind....read this thread....am I the only one in here that is reading all this unclearly....after all these posts....about setting up bracing...and we have come to this?

The quote on the agreement of mine to your post....had you quoted about your post on the threaded rod...not the dowels....I do not agree with the resonant quality of the dowels in such a high power application. I was agreeing with you....and your gonna attack me for that? wow

and your post about the standing waves and or cancelling waves in the enclosure being a non issue..... Im not buying it. Are you basing that off of theory...or actually sitting inside the enclosure with a mic measuring Db ratings in the corners.???? In that large of an enclosure...you dont think you will have reflected waves from the windshield back to the back of the enclosure? Omni directional and free to bounce where they want. Having a pocket of area that isnt designed for or at least an attempt at making the area as unavailable for cancelling waves as possible....your saying would be a moot point?
a 100hz sine wave is over 10' long and the wave lengths just get longer as you go lower. The wavelengths of frequencies audible to the human ear (20 Hz–20 kHz) are between approximately 17 m and 17 mm, respectively (wiki). you would need a MUCH larger enclosure than what is typical for subwoofers in vehicles. you wont get standing waves in an enclosure smaller than a living room.

12VoltInstaller
01-04-2008, 12:36 AM
thats all good info. The fact that your basing your information off a single sine wave in theory is not correct. Your sine waves are not infinitely linear in a vehicle.... You will have stading waves, cancelling waves and reflective waves throughout the cab with different songs and different frequencies. Once again...if your basing your theory that standing waves do not exist in the enclosure or the vehicle ever...never evver...never...ever....... is that really what your saying?..

Lakota
01-04-2008, 12:50 AM
Ok...dude...if your gonna try to dig on me....why did you buy a MAZDA and still think and post that its a MAZDA.... Thats a FORD RANGER DOOOD....and you tuned your enclosure to 40hz in a less than extended cab truck....I bet it rocks at your bumper....152.8 at the bumper...on the TL...stiff....what?

What does my truck have to do with any of this? That's a totally different topic. WTF are you talking about? It would be nice if your sentences made a little bit more sense.


Ok...secondly....you do things for a reason. Extrapolate on your reasoning.....

I have been telling you why and how I use threaded rod.


The quote on the agreement of mine to your post....had you quoted about your post on the threaded rod...not the dowels....I do not agree with the resonant quality of the dowels in such a high power application. I was agreeing with you....and your gonna attack me for that? wow


I must have misunderstood you here. My bad.

IgnoreMe
01-04-2008, 12:52 AM
thats all good info. The fact that your basing your information off a single sine wave in theory is not correct. Your sine waves are not infinitely linear in a vehicle.... You will have stading waves, cancelling waves and reflective waves throughout the cab with different songs and different frequencies. Once again...if your basing your theory that standing waves do not exist in the enclosure or the vehicle ever...never evver...never...ever....... is that really what your saying?..

we were talking about in side the enclosure not in the cab.

IgnoreMe
01-04-2008, 01:00 AM
Enclosure Shape
While it is always a pretty good idea to stay away from perfect cubes, they don't necessarily have to be avoided like The Plague. Due to the very small dimensions of most mobile subwoofer enclosures, there is little chance of generating standing waves in the enclosure (standing waves cause nasty response fluctuations). For a standing wave to exist, the distance between parallel boundaries must be 1/2 the wavelength of the frequency at which the standing wave exists. Considering that sub-bass waves vary from 56.4 feet (20 Hz) to 11.28 feet (100 Hz), the generation of a standing wave is going to be impossible....after all, the enclosures we're speaking of have to fit in the average sedan or hatchback! let me guess, still no good?

Lakota
01-04-2008, 01:03 AM
let me guess, still no good?

You're not an installer. What you say doesn't matter. You're wrong.
:)

IgnoreMe
01-04-2008, 01:04 AM
You're not an installer. What you say doesn't matter. You're wrong.
:)

i have a small ***** too :crap:

at least that what my mother tells me.

Lakota
01-04-2008, 01:08 AM
i have a small ***** too :crap:

at least that what my mother tells me.

I got just the thing for you! http://www.enzyte.com/

IgnoreMe
01-04-2008, 01:11 AM
http://www.fanfic.net/~jeffwong/enzyte.jpg

im actually the spokesman

12VoltInstaller
01-04-2008, 05:35 AM
Yes inside the box. I meant to say Phaze cancellation. The whole intent to use the pieces of wood in the enclosure is for bracing and making the best effort to reduce phaze cancellation. Very good Pre design to obtuse corners or ultimately the use of a cylinder as the shape of your enclosure will result in a non flex type enclosure not being affected by even amounts of air pressure spread across the enclosure walls..

but using steel rod works too.

Good catch.

Lakota
01-04-2008, 09:30 AM
Yes inside the box. I meant to say Phaze cancellation. The whole intent to use the pieces of wood in the enclosure is for bracing and making the best effort to reduce phaze cancellation. Very good Pre design to obtuse corners or ultimately the use of a cylinder as the shape of your enclosure will result in a non flex type enclosure not being affected by even amounts of air pressure spread across the enclosure walls..

but using steel rod works too.

Good catch.

Messing with corners and such doesn't always help though:)

12VoltInstaller
01-04-2008, 01:48 PM
No Snowflake is ever the same either....lets stay on the subject.

Lakota
01-04-2008, 02:05 PM
lets stay on the subject.

That's ironic.

12VoltInstaller
01-04-2008, 04:11 PM
see you just prove that the forums are full of little kids..with nothing better to do...your not really trying to help out other people with the questions they asking....your trying to prove to someone that you know what your talking about....still havent proved anything to me.....you just get all butt hurt and feel the need to retalliate....get the last word in....whatever man...post what you want.

IGNORE ME has actually proven he knows a lil somthin about a lil somthin...and I agreed with him.

Keep keepin it small p.p. dood

Propimp
01-04-2008, 04:14 PM
12VoltInstaller your a tool :fyi:

12VoltInstaller
01-04-2008, 04:45 PM
good lookin out....im glad we got that out of the way...at least we can let the guy that was asking about how to brace his enclosure know that you have decided that Im a tool. Im sure he will appriciate that. Definately keeps his enclosure more solid that way....good info

12VoltInstaller
01-04-2008, 04:56 PM
12VoltInstaller your a tool :fyi:

Do you even get on this forum to help anyone? Or just to talk about your piddly little system?

You jack off at the mouth about absolutely nothing in your posts...and have been doing so for quite a while it seems....get a life poser....you have set a very good example for all so called tools after me to follow your example....it really is true...you have to be one to know one.

babaganoush123
01-04-2008, 06:08 PM
who?

TheFiverMan
01-04-2008, 06:10 PM
how many god **** threads r u gonna make..have 10+ threads and u have only been here 6 days..

12VoltInstaller
01-04-2008, 06:16 PM
your all good BABA....this is your thread...we have been....ultimately....trying to help answer your question....you have posted a bunch of threads..lol

babaganoush123
01-04-2008, 06:22 PM
thanks guys lol......you guys are helpful people.

Lakota
01-04-2008, 10:31 PM
see you just prove that the forums are full of little kids..with nothing better to do...your not really trying to help out other people with the questions they asking....your trying to prove to someone that you know what your talking about....

I actually am very willing to help people. A lot of people pm me or talk to me on aim and I try to help them get their setup straight. What you don't know is that I've been helping the OP via pm's. This is one of the responses that I got from him:

nice bro your a helpful person.
so in a more basic way how do i fit it between the wood?
You can fvck off now.

babaganoush123
01-05-2008, 01:48 AM
who can **** off?

Lakota
01-05-2008, 02:05 AM
who can **** off?

12volt

JimJ
01-05-2008, 02:17 AM
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/4959/mar18dc9.jpg

An example of some real bracing :D

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1162233#post1162233

Post #26 by Planet10 has some info pertaining to this thread...

babaganoush123
01-05-2008, 03:20 AM
man that must took alot of time for that bracing?

fwb_1234
01-05-2008, 03:41 AM
That's overkill JimJ.

12VoltInstaller
01-05-2008, 06:56 AM
its unfortunate you have resorted to cursing to prove your point.

Your PM's only help one person...if your so knowledgeable and helpfull, why dont any of your posts reflect that? You trying to spend some quality one on one time with your needy public?

The way you point such direct fingers....in real life....would get you your *** kicked in.

Telephone tough guy.


Back to helping people in the public forums....


Yeah and that bracing is way over kill...probably not the lightest solution either....wow you could drop a bomb on that!