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View Full Version : Rec's on best 5.25 comps in BAD stock locations



evilsaint
04-09-2003, 04:24 AM
Alright, right off the bat, i'll say it - My system has great bass (minus rattling), but everything else sounds kind of bad. That's why i'm asking you guys for help. Mostly everyone here seems to know more than the people on any other caraudio board out there. Anyways, here it goes....

My front stage is too narrow, too low, and it seems to move every time I change the volume significantly. The balancing of low, mids, and highs goes like this - lows and midbass are practically non-existant from my interior speakers, and on bass heavy music, it seems like the only bass in the car is from the k's roaring in the trunk.

The mids have decent separation and clarity on less involved music, and sound fine at lower volume levels, but when it comes to what I call "complicated" music (most of S.C.I.E.N.C.E from Incubus, almost all of KoRn, some MudVayne, etc) they tend to get muddy, and sort of mixed up sounding.

The highs aren't too sharp or dull, but they don't play at the same level as the mids or the lows, and you can't usually hear when they start or end as clearly as you should be able to. (essentially attack and decay, right?)

My setup is listed in my sig, and i'm upgrading a lot of the stuff in my system in the very near future, which is part of my query to you guys. I personally suspect that the mid-bass problem, and hopefully a few of the others are caused by the fact that my front speakers don't seal correctly against the mounting locations.

The stockers in the front of my car were 5.25's, and despite having no problems drilling new holes for the 6.5 bostons, the locations aren't flat. They are basically rings, but the actual sections with the screw holes in them are raised from the rest. Also, for the most part, they play into your legs and bounce the music in unpredictable directions.

I'll be shipping out my 6x9's to a guy tomorrow, and I have adapters on the way to put my bostons in the rear locations, so i'm looking for 5.25" components to put in front.

My first question is: What kind of components would be the best to give my system a wider, taller soundstage while also adding accurate mid-bass, well separated mids, and highs balanced out with the mids and the lows? I need something that can handle a decent amount of power, and definitely something that can get really loud if necessary while still maintaing a reasonable semblance of their normal SQ. As detailed as that question is, I also understand how vague it is.

Put as basically as possible, for somewhere around $200-$250, NIB, or lightly used, what would be the best components to give my system a larger, more dynamic front stage?

The items mentioned as coming soon in my sig will be arriving in just about a week, and the PPI at least should help out with some of the separation and clarity issues.

My second question is simpler, and will end this fit of rambling: Where should I mount the tweeters of the comp. set, and how high up?

Any comments, even @ssinine ones, will be greatly appeciated. Thanks in advance for the help/input, and good luck understanding even half of this without getting a migraine :D

96' Bonneville SSEi
Alpine 7977
4 Year Old Alpine 4 Channel 55wx4
(Soon to be PPI A404.2 Art Series)
Boston Rally 6.5" Front,
MBQuart 6x9" Rear
Streetwires 6.0 Interconnects,
and SW power/ground/distro all around.
JBL BP1200.1 (Soon to be Cadence Z7000)
2 Elemental E12KD4's

paikiah
04-09-2003, 04:44 AM
Originally posted by evilsaint
Alright, right off the bat, i'll say it - My system has great bass (minus rattling), but everything else sounds kind of bad. That's why i'm asking you guys for help. Mostly everyone here seems to know more than the people on any other caraudio board out there. Anyways, here it goes....

My front stage is too narrow, too low, and it seems to move every time I change the volume significantly. The balancing of low, mids, and highs goes like this - lows and midbass are practically non-existant from my interior speakers, and on bass heavy music, it seems like the only bass in the car is from the k's roaring in the trunk.

The mids have decent separation and clarity on less involved music, and sound fine at lower volume levels, but when it comes to what I call "complicated" music (most of S.C.I.E.N.C.E from Incubus, almost all of KoRn, some MudVayne, etc) they tend to get muddy, and sort of mixed up sounding.

The highs aren't too sharp or dull, but they don't play at the same level as the mids or the lows, and you can't usually hear when they start or end as clearly as you should be able to. (essentially attack and decay, right?)

My setup is listed in my sig, and i'm upgrading a lot of the stuff in my system in the very near future, which is part of my query to you guys. I personally suspect that the mid-bass problem, and hopefully a few of the others are caused by the fact that my front speakers don't seal correctly against the mounting locations.

The stockers in the front of my car were 5.25's, and despite having no problems drilling new holes for the 6.5 bostons, the locations aren't flat. They are basically rings, but the actual sections with the screw holes in them are raised from the rest. Also, for the most part, they play into your legs and bounce the music in unpredictable directions.

I'll be shipping out my 6x9's to a guy tomorrow, and I have adapters on the way to put my bostons in the rear locations, so i'm looking for 5.25" components to put in front.

My first question is: What kind of components would be the best to give my system a wider, taller soundstage while also adding accurate mid-bass, well separated mids, and highs balanced out with the mids and the lows? I need something that can handle a decent amount of power, and definitely something that can get really loud if necessary while still maintaing a reasonable semblance of their normal SQ. As detailed as that question is, I also understand how vague it is.

Put as basically as possible, for somewhere around $200-$250, NIB, or lightly used, what would be the best components to give my system a larger, more dynamic front stage?

The items mentioned as coming soon in my sig will be arriving in just about a week, and the PPI at least should help out with some of the separation and clarity issues.

My second question is simpler, and will end this fit of rambling: Where should I mount the tweeters of the comp. set, and how high up?

Any comments, even @ssinine ones, will be greatly appeciated. Thanks in advance for the help/input, and good luck understanding even half of this without getting a migraine :D

96' Bonneville SSEi
Alpine 7977
4 Year Old Alpine 4 Channel 55wx4
(Soon to be PPI A404.2 Art Series)
Boston Rally 6.5" Front,
MBQuart 6x9" Rear
Streetwires 6.0 Interconnects,
and SW power/ground/distro all around.
JBL BP1200.1 (Soon to be Cadence Z7000)
2 Elemental E12KD4's



OK, looks like maybe you need horns...second hand ones to reduce cost...

You should also look into kickpanel pods... I made my own, and it did me a world of difference... I'm not going into any comps anytime soon, so it doesn't look exactly beautiful, but I made it out of resin and... well, it's good...

I don't know if the part about the driver not installed flat with the ring matters much...

I mean, your door is not an enclosure, it's a free air thing.. maybe it might contribute to some form of cancellation (although I do not know anything about it) and maybe your xovers are screwed... you could make your own with your desired frequencies...

look at it this way... if you were to bend over to hear the mid bass, is it much clearer? If it is, then it's just facing the wrong way... get pods.. or modify your door panel in such a way that the driver faces you...:)

evilsaint
04-09-2003, 05:47 AM
Well, if I bend over I hear the sub bass a lot better.... :)

When I say the low/mid-bass is almost non-existent, I mean just that. The stockers rivaled these speakers in bass output. It's kind of pitiful actually. It gets a little better if I set the HP on my HU to 80Hz instead of 120 or 160, but it distorts pretty easily, and i'd rather have not much bass from my interiors than nasty bass.

I'm great at putting stuff together and taking it apart.... when the parts are there already. I could probably mess up making mashed potatoes from scratch, so resin is out of the question. I would love to have my local shop make kicks for me, but i'm sellin this car in a couple months (WRX here we come :D) so it's not worth putting the money into it IMO.

Any ideas on how I should install the tweets? I was thinking the good 'ol "A-pillar at listening level", but would anything else work better? My car has a BIG interior, and most of my passengers and I sit back pretty far. Is there any other way that would kind of spread the sound?

evilsaint
04-09-2003, 05:59 AM
Also, any reccomendations on comps? I was looking at focal polykevlar, alpine type-r, top of the line kicker, or some used CDT's if I could find some.

nismboy6986
04-09-2003, 08:34 PM
you say you only here bass coming from the k's. they are the only speakers that are supposed to be trying to play bass. If you raise your crossover point between the subs and mids they should sound better since when mids try to play bass they don't sound good regardless of what frequency response they have

paikiah
04-09-2003, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by evilsaint
Well, if I bend over I hear the sub bass a lot better.... :)

When I say the low/mid-bass is almost non-existent, I mean just that. The stockers rivaled these speakers in bass output. It's kind of pitiful actually. It gets a little better if I set the HP on my HU to 80Hz instead of 120 or 160, but it distorts pretty easily, and i'd rather have not much bass from my interiors than nasty bass.

I didn't mean the sub-bass, I meant mid bass... thought maybe the cones were just facing the wrong way... if that's the case, I say it's either the xover freuqency settings, or your xover itself might be blown? mid-bass, I presume it to be from 80Hz~275+Hz... but I do hear a lot of people having similar problems... hmmm... sorry, all I can guess is frequency settings... my subs play till 80Hz, my 6and half plays 80Hz~300Hz, 5and half plays 300Hz and above... sounds ok to me.. the door panels still shake a bit, but thanks to dampers, it's not audible...


I'm great at putting stuff together and taking it apart.... when the parts are there already. I could probably mess up making mashed potatoes from scratch, so resin is out of the question. I would love to have my local shop make kicks for me, but i'm sellin this car in a couple months (WRX here we come :D) so it's not worth putting the money into it IMO.

Hmm, you could make pods and then sell them off as second hand, if you can't wait 2 months.. WRX...wow, that's one hell of a car... I've had the chance to ride in a Grp. N Subaru Sti Ver3 a couple of times, and it was incredible... it seemed to me that the driver was more relaxed in the scooby than the Evo 3 he previously drove..he admits to it as well.. could just be the settings, but well, I wouln't argue with a WRC driver.


Any ideas on how I should install the tweets? I was thinking the good 'ol "A-pillar at listening level", but would anything else work better? My car has a BIG interior, and most of my passengers and I sit back pretty far. Is there any other way that would kind of spread the sound?

Erm, I don't think there's any magical way to allow a one inch tweeter to cover such a vast soundstage..... you could mess up the front soundstage and allow the rear passengers a listen at high frequencies by installing the tweeters on the B pillars, or the upmost front on the rear door(i.e., right beside the B pillars)