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View Full Version : the elephant box... to be built by BJfish



nineballsafety8
12-16-2007, 06:37 AM
26500906

26500907can you guess why i call it the elephant box???
anyway... it will be holding (or trying to hold) 2 AQ HDC3 15's, running off a maxximus at 16 volts... doin like 11,500 watts or so.
let me know what you think of the design

IamDeMan
12-16-2007, 08:13 AM
You call it an elephant, because it should be able to hold up one when it is built.

BASSMEKANIK
12-16-2007, 08:18 AM
You call it an elephant, because it should be able to hold up one when it is built.

doubt it...

IamDeMan
12-16-2007, 08:29 AM
doubt it...
I was stretchin.

mlstrass
12-16-2007, 10:46 AM
I wonder how the HDC's will do on 11.5K....

bjfish11
12-16-2007, 11:03 AM
Shouldnt be any flex to this box..... ;)

nineballsafety8
12-16-2007, 11:20 AM
i dont expect the AQ's to hanlde or like 11k, itl be like stickin your **** in your wifes butt (w/o asking) and trying to hold on longer than it takes her to reach for a flip flop to slap you with... but i dygress. dont give away everything before it is done... but this install, will be swichable from 11k down to about 4k.:crazy:

revrider1
12-16-2007, 11:22 AM
cool

bopo668
12-16-2007, 01:46 PM
because its going to be heavy just a guess

azbass
12-16-2007, 01:47 PM
meh

theothermike
12-16-2007, 02:38 PM
bj i got a quick ? even though i dont have much experience working with wood, does the distance of spreading out kerf cuts really matter in flaring? like if u space out kerf cuts wider does that mean the curve takes up more length before it completely turns?

Mike-

dcole18
12-16-2007, 02:45 PM
bj i got a quick ? even though i dont have much experience working with wood, does the distance of spreading out kerf cuts really matter in flaring? like if u space out kerf cuts wider does that mean the curve takes up more length before it completely turns?

Mike-

yes... the closer the cuts, the tighter the turn... and vise versa

bjfish11
12-16-2007, 04:28 PM
bj i got a quick ? even though i dont have much experience working with wood, does the distance of spreading out kerf cuts really matter in flaring? like if u space out kerf cuts wider does that mean the curve takes up more length before it completely turns?

Mike-


yes... the closer the cuts, the tighter the turn... and vise versa

Hes got it. But also, the tigther the turn, the more chance of breaking it.

dcole18
12-16-2007, 05:47 PM
Hes got it. But also, the tigther the turn, the more chance of breaking it.

you could always just dip it in pool water ;)

nineballsafety8
12-16-2007, 05:52 PM
stop hatin on the pool boy... it was only his 4th box, and was just trying to make it work... let him turn his box into MDF confetti and then maybe he will understand why we were all laughing at him

DBfan187
12-16-2007, 05:54 PM
someone mention pools?

bjfish11
12-16-2007, 06:05 PM
stop hatin on the pool boy... it was only his 4th box, and was just trying to make it work... let him turn his box into MDF confetti and then maybe he will understand why we were all laughing at him

I think the main reason so many people give him a hard time.... is because several people, myself included, were trying to help him out. He said we didnt know what we were doing, etc. :laugh:

dcole18
12-16-2007, 06:07 PM
I think the main reason so many people give him a hard time.... is because several people, myself included, were trying to help him out. He said we didnt know what we were doing, etc. :laugh:

WINAR!!!!

PSturmer
12-16-2007, 06:13 PM
i like the design. the double layer on the curved corner is going to be a pain to do.

bjfish11
12-16-2007, 06:17 PM
i like the design. the double layer on the curved corner is going to be a pain to do.

In theory, it really shouldnt be too hard... It will basically be like making the port actually 1.5" wider...

Only one way to find out how hard it will be... :D

nineballsafety8
12-16-2007, 06:17 PM
well since im just designing it and not building it, the final decision is BJ's... but if i was going to do it myself (hard to do in Iraq) i would just make the boards for the bend intensionally too long, make sure all the bends are the same, glue the boards together, and THEN cut them to the right length, cause it would be a ***** to try and calculate/guess home much lenght the curve takes up when double layered

nineballsafety8
12-16-2007, 06:47 PM
and by the way... as far as boxes go. BJfish11 is OUT OF HIS MIND. I was an installer for 3 years, and if i was to build this box for someone, it would have been an easy 400 bucks. maybe it was just my area, but my box quality was maybe 70% of his at best, and to get the box for what he is charging. He will forever be the man i recommend. Fisher YOU ARE THE MAN!!!

bjfish11
12-16-2007, 06:52 PM
and by the way... as far as boxes go. BJfish11 is OUT OF HIS MIND. I was an installer for 3 years, and if i was to build this box for someone, it would have been an easy 400 bucks. maybe it was just my area, but my box quality was maybe 70% of his at best, and to get the box for what he is charging. He will forever be the man i recommend. Fisher YOU ARE THE MAN!!!

LOL, thanks man. ;) I appreciate the compliments.

BrianChia
12-16-2007, 07:13 PM
Nice lookin design, but why not flare the inside of the port too?

PSturmer
12-16-2007, 07:18 PM
well since im just designing it and not building it, the final decision is BJ's... but if i was going to do it myself (hard to do in Iraq) i would just make the boards for the bend intensionally too long, make sure all the bends are the same, glue the boards together, and THEN cut them to the right length, cause it would be a ***** to try and calculate/guess home much lenght the curve takes up when double layered

arch length= radius * theta (in radians). it is pretty accurate, the only problem is the curve is not a perfect circular edge.

nineballsafety8
12-16-2007, 07:20 PM
this system is going in my daily driver... it might see a local show 2 or 3 times a year... this is a because i can install. as loud as it is going to be i really dont think the "possible" port coloration INSIDE the box is really going to matter at levels upwards of 154dB's. It will sound **** good as low levels due to enclosure design and a pair of **** nice subs, but at low levels woofer movement will be at a minimum which inturn, will make vent velocity (the thing that causes port noise) negligible... and when i turn it up it will be so **** loud you wont hear any port noise anyway... you wont really be able to hear anything but WANGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!

IamDeMan
12-16-2007, 07:28 PM
Shouldnt be any flex to this box..... ;)I wouldn't expect any :)


someone mention pools?Yes, come clean mine, then you and pedro meet me in the cabana.


and by the way... as far as boxes go. BJfish11 is OUT OF HIS MIND. I was an installer for 3 years, and if i was to build this box for someone, it would have been an easy 400 bucks. maybe it was just my area, but my box quality was maybe 70% of his at best, and to get the box for what he is charging. He will forever be the man i recommend. Fisher YOU ARE THE MAN!!!
He is indeed.

bjfish11
12-16-2007, 07:31 PM
Nice lookin design, but why not flare the inside of the port too?

Its do-able ;)

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u282/bjfish11/5-14-07006.jpg

Taken from: http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=234175

BrianChia
12-16-2007, 08:20 PM
Haha yeah. :) Nice build. I remember seeing that thread a few months ago I believe.

I was just wondering why the designer didn't flare the inside of this box as well to reduce turbulence. The inside port opening should flare and the area where the two ports meet should have some sort of V-divider to couple the the two ports into the single front port so that the two ports don't oppose each other (potential cancellation).

nineballsafety8
12-17-2007, 03:59 AM
26500922alright boys, here it is... after about 18 hours of non stop beating my head against the wall with anticipation... and lost of talking with bjfish and DJL from AQ i finally have the design ironned out. the elephant box is on the way... and is going to be mean as ****!!!:eek::eek::eek:

BrianChia
12-17-2007, 04:22 AM
Looks BEEFY.

Somehow I don't think rigidity will be a problem... :)

nineballsafety8
12-17-2007, 04:26 AM
the bracing in this box is what makes it so unbelievable strong (aside from the 240 lbs. of trupan light of course). if you look carefully the ports tie every wall of the enclosure together. the ports are even braced in two places, once on the face of the side of the port and then again, butted up against the end of the flare. BJ, "you are going to need some REALLY long screws for that part":veryhapp::veryhapp:

BrianChia
12-17-2007, 05:03 AM
Also BJ builds with rabbeted joints unlike most people here...

:fyi:

bjfish11
12-17-2007, 01:16 PM
Also BJ builds with rabbeted joints unlike most people here...

:fyi:

Yep.



Looks good man, Ill get you that quote tonight.

audioholic
12-17-2007, 01:45 PM
When I looked at the box plans, my eyes immediately went to the double walled port, with its bends. And my first thought was how the hell are you gonna do that.

Here's my thinking. You can't make the linear cuts (for the round bend shape) after the boards are already laminated together, it would just cut the inner panel in half. So Im guessing you'll have to bend each piece seperate, then laminate them together once they are already in the bended shape. Sounds very difficult getting the raiuses to match up exactly.

I suspect you'll do it after laminated, even thought my though is it wont work. You'll prolly make it work. lol Just post some pics of that stage of the project if you would please.

Also, Im not sure I understand the reasoning for having the port walls be double thickness. They really shouldn't have the stress applied to them the outside walls do. Im designing a double walled box right now and its port walls will be single. Perhaps the problem with bending a double layered wall for the port isn't even necessary?

Slowd N Throwd
12-17-2007, 02:39 PM
im interested to see how the double walled bends are going to work.. i dont think iv ever seen that befor, i believe BJfish can do it though

nineballsafety8
12-17-2007, 03:11 PM
When I looked at the box plans, my eyes immediately went to the double walled port, with its bends. And my first thought was how the hell are you gonna do that.

Here's my thinking. You can't make the linear cuts (for the round bend shape) after the boards are already laminated together, it would just cut the inner panel in half. So Im guessing you'll have to bend each piece seperate, then laminate them together once they are already in the bended shape. Sounds very difficult getting the raiuses to match up exactly.

I suspect you'll do it after laminated, even thought my though is it wont work. You'll prolly make it work. lol Just post some pics of that stage of the project if you would please.

Also, Im not sure I understand the reasoning for having the port walls be double thickness. They really shouldn't have the stress applied to them the outside walls do. Im designing a double walled box right now and its port walls will be single. Perhaps the problem with bending a double layered wall for the port isn't even necessary?


not that im saying you don't know what you are talking about, because you are a senior member and have seen your name quite a few times in intelligent discussions on forums here before however... with pressure levels of upwards of 170db inside a ported enclosure what makes you think the the stress on ANY wall would be any less than any other... its basic physics... true SPL is based on atmospheric pressure, not volume... and the number of atmospheres within a port enclosure remain constant through out the enclosure with the exception of about a 30% at corners due to standing waves within the box... ( a sphere is the only enclosure to truly eliminate atanding waves within an enclosre.)... and any way, the double thick port walls are more to support the face of the enclosure that holds the drivers than the "make the ports stronger"... the bracing is set in the enclosure to minimize turbulence... so there are not any braces that run perpendicular to the venting voice.

audioholic
12-17-2007, 07:23 PM
So the port wall absorbs the same stresses as an exterior wall? A port wall will have the same pressure on both sides of it, an exterior wall will not. Be it 170db's worth of pressure, or atmospheric pressure. Its the difference in pressures on two sides of a wall that would cause the panel to flex.

Many people brace a box will simple dowel rods. Id think a full 3/4" panel would suffice, 1.5" being over kill. But overkill isn't necessarily bad, was just asking.

Im not sure what my post count or experience has to do with answering my questions.

Cheers.

Immacomputer
12-17-2007, 07:42 PM
26500922alright boys, here it is... after about 18 hours of non stop beating my head against the wall with anticipation... and lost of talking with bjfish and DJL from AQ i finally have the design ironned out. the elephant box is on the way... and is going to be mean as ****!!!:eek::eek::eek:

It does kind of look like an elephant from that angle.


I like the design but I think that bracing the port flares like this would be a much stronger and easier route (with more obviously). It would be really easy to get the exact radius using cardboard test pieces and a skilled jigsaw hand:

http://i11.tinypic.com/7yml0r7.png

Either way, I know BJ will be able to pull it off.

nineballsafety8
12-17-2007, 08:03 PM
So the port wall absorbs the same stresses as an exterior wall? A port wall will have the same pressure on both sides of it, an exterior wall will not. Be it 170db's worth of pressure, or atmospheric pressure. Its the difference in pressures on two sides of a wall that would cause the panel to flex.

Many people brace a box will simple dowel rods. Id think a full 3/4" panel would suffice, 1.5" being over kill. But overkill isn't necessarily bad, was just asking.

Im not sure what my post count or experience has to do with answering my questions.

Cheers.

i understand what you are getting at, but the pressure on the sides of the port are not actually the same... if you go to DDAUDIO.COM they describe it a lot better than i do... but although the air in a port is constantly moving (back and forth), the air "within" the port becomes someone static, in that it never actually moves more the the distance the motor structure/structures of the drivers within the box can push it. so while a port is "breathing" at whatever velocity and frequency, the port is essentially using the same air over and over... there for the port becomes an additional driving surface (much liking adding more drivers), therefore the pressure inside the box an all surfaces (including the port) stays the same, while the pressure within the port stays at no true "pressure" but with much movement and volume.... atleast thats what my BAS in Physics and 3 yrs as a proffesional installer and 4 years in the amateur circuit... but then again opinions are like *** holes, everybody has one and most of them stink... but thats the way i understand it.

and i appreciate the input on different bracing, but this design is a dream come true for me and is pretty set in stone... thanx

bjfish11
12-17-2007, 08:18 PM
When I looked at the box plans, my eyes immediately went to the double walled port, with its bends. And my first thought was how the hell are you gonna do that.

Here's my thinking. You can't make the linear cuts (for the round bend shape) after the boards are already laminated together, it would just cut the inner panel in half. So Im guessing you'll have to bend each piece seperate, then laminate them together once they are already in the bended shape. Sounds very difficult getting the raiuses to match up exactly.

I suspect you'll do it after laminated, even thought my though is it wont work. You'll prolly make it work. lol Just post some pics of that stage of the project if you would please.

Also, Im not sure I understand the reasoning for having the port walls be double thickness. They really shouldn't have the stress applied to them the outside walls do. Im designing a double walled box right now and its port walls will be single. Perhaps the problem with bending a double layered wall for the port isn't even necessary?

I really dont think its going to be as hard as it seems it might. I will cut and bend each piece separately, then laminate them together.

With Chris' skills in designing it up, Im pretty positive we will be able to pull it off. If by chance we cant, we will find an alternative.

audioholic
12-17-2007, 09:32 PM
i understand what you are getting at, but the pressure on the sides of the port are not actually the same... if you go to DDAUDIO.COM they describe it a lot better than i do... but although the air in a port is constantly moving (back and forth), the air "within" the port becomes someone static, in that it never actually moves more the the distance the motor structure/structures of the drivers within the box can push it. so while a port is "breathing" at whatever velocity and frequency, the port is essentially using the same air over and over... there for the port becomes an additional driving surface (much liking adding more drivers), therefore the pressure inside the box an all surfaces (including the port) stays the same, while the pressure within the port stays at no true "pressure" but with much movement and volume.... atleast thats what my BAS in Physics and 3 yrs as a proffesional installer and 4 years in the amateur circuit... but then again opinions are like *** holes, everybody has one and most of them stink... but thats the way i understand it.

and i appreciate the input on different bracing, but this design is a dream come true for me and is pretty set in stone... thanxIf what you are suggesting is true, then the inner port wall itself would take the brunt of the stress/pressure, and the outer wall (and port wall) wouldn't need to be as strong.

Eitherway, like I said above, over built is a good thing. Good luck with your project. :)


I really dont think its going to be as hard as it seems it might. I will cut and bend each piece separately, then laminate them together.

With Chris' skills in designing it up, Im pretty positive we will be able to pull it off. If by chance we cant, we will find an alternative.Yeah after thinking about it more bending each piece is the only way to go. With some jigs to replicate each bend radius needed, fitting the two pieces together post-bend shouldn't be as hard as I thought. Not suggesting it'll be easy lol, however Im sure you'll make it look that way.

Looking forward to watching another one of your projects unfold.