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View Full Version : Full range or high pass on comp sets?



Firmbiz94
12-13-2007, 09:45 PM
Like the title says.. when you run a comp set do you run the amp on high pass or full range.. i just installed my rsds and was running the amp on full range.. i thought that the crossover would eliminate low freqs from gettin to the tweets....but they blew.. i didnt hear any distortion they just stopped.. both of them at the same time..so im thinkn maybe its bc i ran the amp at full range..i dont want to blow another pair so should i run at high pass... btw the amp is a memphis mc-16-2004 150x2 bridged

Side Show
12-13-2007, 09:46 PM
Yes HPF, check your wiring too.........

squeak9798
12-13-2007, 09:47 PM
The amp being full range wouldn't blow the tweeters, as the passive crossover is what highpasses the tweeters. But yes, you want to highpass the component set as the passive crossover doesn't limit the low frequencies being delivered to the mids.


But if you blew both tweeters, it means you did something wrong. How did you set the gain for the amp ? What amp do you have ?

Firmbiz94
12-13-2007, 09:53 PM
i wired it correctly...the mids work fine..the tweets are hooked up into the crossover when i tested different speakers on the tweeter output of the crossover it works perfect..like i said in the first post its a memphis 2004 puts out 150x2..which i read on this forum a million times the rsds would eat up..the gain was set about half way if not less...the only other thing that i can think of is a bad signal...i currently use a LOC to gain a signal from my stock radio..i like the stock radio and do not want to change it.. I run the rcas into the memphis amp from my sub stage amp... i am ordering a eq real soon that will clean up signal and also raise my output voltage to 7 volts.. can tweets blow from a dirty signal..i dunno i they might of been defective i got them off ebay

tcguy85
12-13-2007, 09:59 PM
ike i said in the first post its a memphis 2004 puts out 150x2..which i read on this forum a million times the rsds would eat up..the gain was set about half way if not less

how did you set the gains? did you just say "hey, half way looks good" or did you use a DMM or something to set them? i have mine on more power than that and they love it. but it's clean correctly set power.

also the best way to set the crossover is to set it on your deck, and set the amp to all pass (AP). let the deck do the work if it can. i have ran mine for short periods of time at pretty good levels on full range just to see how they would take it, and they took it fine. they actually get really low and don't bottom out very easily. mine have yet to be bottomed out.

Firmbiz94
12-13-2007, 10:08 PM
well the mids sound good..yea i just set the gain below half way...im not a car audio expert i kind of do it as a hobby and i dont know everything..but i do know how to physically install speakers..i guess i thought setting the amp low would keep the tweets from blowing until i got a chance to meter everything... Im thinking hat i got a defective pair..im goin to order another pair of tweets..and since you cant just get rsd tweets by themselves im goin to have to get something else...ANother question...My amp is 50x4 or 150x2...If i buy a new set of tweets that come with thier own crossover..would it be better to install them with the rsd crossover or run them off of their own crossover. It would be obvious to me the answer if i was dealing with the same amount of power..if i run them seperately i will lose 50 watts a side...the mid would get 50 watts and the tweet would get 50 watts instead of splitting 150.

tcguy85
12-13-2007, 10:22 PM
did you try calling phoenix gold to see if they will sell you a set of tweeters? i don't see why they wouldn't. i blew a tweeter on my old poopy infinity perfect set, and infinity sold me a new tweeter. notice i did say "sold". PG probably won't warranty them, and i kind of doubt that both were defective or "bad" anyway. i could see one... but not both.

set the gains with a dmm playing a 1khz -3db test tone.... the voltage should read 25.4 volts for 150 watts at 4 ohms. unhook the speakers from the amp when you do this though, don't play a 1khz tone through them at that level.

Firmbiz94
12-13-2007, 10:25 PM
yea if i could buy just the tweeter from pg that would be great...prob cost mor ethan the 80 bucks i paid for the whole set tho on ebay...ehh this ***** i was excited about these things ..and my sx's are drowning out my highs

tcguy85
12-13-2007, 11:05 PM
yea if i could buy just the tweeter from pg that would be great...prob cost mor ethan the 80 bucks i paid for the whole set tho on ebay...ehh this ***** i was excited about these things ..and my sx's are drowning out my highs

give them a call..... at least get a price.

Firmbiz94
12-16-2007, 01:52 AM
ok...well i think i know what im goin to do so let me know if this will work..im goin to buy a different set of tweeters...i was looking at kicker r25 or maybe infinitys..something pretty cheap for now..anyways ill get a pair with its own crossover...then ill just run the amp 50x4... i can put the tweeter on one side with the hp filter on and the mids of the other side of the amp with the full range..the mids sound like crap with the high pass on...they def need to be on full range or they sound like tweeters with no bass output whatsoever...my last question is..the infinitys are 2 ohms..can i run half an amp @ 4 ohm and the other on 2? my amp have 2 channels on each side..each pair of channels have their own set of gains filters etc. Let me know what you think thanks

skydeaner
12-16-2007, 09:19 AM
Like the title says.. when you run a comp set do you run the amp on high pass or full range.. i just installed my rsds and was running the amp on full range.. i thought that the crossover would eliminate low freqs from gettin to the tweets....but they blew.. i didnt hear any distortion they just stopped.. both of them at the same time..so im thinkn maybe its bc i ran the amp at full range..i dont want to blow another pair so should i run at high pass... btw the amp is a memphis mc-16-2004 150x2 bridged

Looks like you should have had someone help you with your install. I am yet another one that is running my rds's with 150~200 watts rms a side. The tweeters dont break up until right at that level and the mids shake my legs like a withdrawn crack addict.

Firmbiz94
12-16-2007, 04:23 PM
yea maybe I shoulda of had someone done it for me..but that would defeat the purpose of me tryin to do it myself..i do this as a hobby. No i dont know everything and i know that..Thats why I ask questions on this forum..I switched over here from Roe thinkin that maybe the ppl over here were maybe more helpful and less bashing all the time...Insted of gettin any answers to my questions ppl just talk down to everybody and try to make them feel stupid...ther are helpful ppl but im gettin to the point where im not even goin to ask anymore questions bc im sick of getting talked to like a 15 Year old...yea my tweeters blew...they never worked...and now im the *******..like i said the midbass sounds great, they handle every bit of the power i throw at them... all i wanted to know..can i have one side of an amp be ran at 2 ohms and the other at 4>? Also like i stated earlier there is no way that I am supposed to run this amp on High pass...if that was the case how would the mids have any bass output? Im gettin conflicting answers and i dont know what to believe..i guess ill trust my ears and when the amp is on full range the mids sound great and on HIgh pass they sound like tweeters. IF anyone can help me i'd appreciate it... I know that no one has really said anything to offend me but i see alot of this type of stuff goin on and i know it discourages alot of ppl from asking questions and learning, which to me is the whole point of this forum..Not a contest of who is the smartest car audio person.

tcguy85
12-16-2007, 04:29 PM
if you want to be on a nice helpful forum then checkout diymobileaudio.com. their forum is great.

you can run half the amp at 2 and the other half at 4, that should not be a problem.

you do want to use a high pass filter on the comps. you need them crossed no lower than 50hz with a 12db slope. i have mine at 63hz with a 12db slope. comps are not meant to play bass, but mid-bass. the sub should take over from about anywhere from 80hz to 50hz and down.

if you listen to rap or any bass heavy music you will want the set crossed at 63hz or 80hz with at least a 12db slope to keep from destroying them. i have never bottomed mine out but i'm sure if you go blasting gucci maine or jeezy on full range at a decent volume you will blow them to bits

Firmbiz94
12-16-2007, 05:10 PM
thanks..i will check out that forum..i know i kind of went on a rant but these forums are crawling with ppl that just wait to bash ppl and in doing so do not help anyone..yea i will play with the amp and settings..i bought a DMM and will set the gains correctly..I will run the tweets on thier own Crossover..will the mids be ok without the tweeter utilizing the RSD crossover..will they recieve all the power of the mids channel.....

tcguy85
12-16-2007, 06:31 PM
it might change the overall impedance that the amp sees but idk. i've never done that before

Troydb
12-17-2007, 12:28 AM
The amp being full range wouldn't blow the tweeters, as the passive crossover is what highpasses the tweeters. But yes, you want to highpass the component set as the passive crossover doesn't limit the low frequencies being delivered to the mids.


But if you blew both tweeters, it means you did something wrong. How did you set the gain for the amp ? What amp do you have ?

What about someone like me who has a Monitor 1 amp. It does not have a crossover on it. I want to use this amp to power a set of components running them off of their passive crossover. But, like you said, the amp would be playing at full range since it does not have a built in crossover. What should I do? Thanks

tcguy85
12-17-2007, 12:51 AM
What about someone like me who has a Monitor 1 amp. It does not have a crossover on it. I want to use this amp to power a set of components running them off of their passive crossover. But, like you said, the amp would be playing at full range since it does not have a built in crossover. What should I do? Thanks

does your deck have built in crossovers? i'm not using the crossovers on my amps, i have all my control up front on my head unit. i would rather have it right in front of me anyway so i can change a setting w/o moving an inch.

Troydb
12-17-2007, 12:53 AM
yeah it is an Alpine 9830 and it has a built in EQ. So just run everying on full range and adjust it at the head unit?

tcguy85
12-17-2007, 12:58 AM
yeah it is an Alpine 9830 and it has a built in EQ. So just run everying on full range and adjust it at the head unit?

yessir. set the crossovers at the head unit, thats what i am doing and i think most people are doing.

DejaWiz
12-17-2007, 10:25 AM
Page 14 of the 9830 owner's manual (http://vault.alpine-usa.com/products/documents/OM%20CDA-9830.pdf) shows how to utilize the HPF.

skydeaner
12-17-2007, 02:08 PM
yea maybe I shoulda of had someone done it for me..but that would defeat the purpose of me tryin to do it myself..i do this as a hobby. No i dont know everything and i know that..Thats why I ask questions on this forum..I switched over here from Roe thinkin that maybe the ppl over here were maybe more helpful and less bashing all the time...Insted of gettin any answers to my questions ppl just talk down to everybody and try to make them feel stupid...ther are helpful ppl but im gettin to the point where im not even goin to ask anymore questions bc im sick of getting talked to like a 15 Year old...yea my tweeters blew...they never worked...and now im the *******..like i said the midbass sounds great, they handle every bit of the power i throw at them... all i wanted to know..can i have one side of an amp be ran at 2 ohms and the other at 4>? Also like i stated earlier there is no way that I am supposed to run this amp on High pass...if that was the case how would the mids have any bass output? Im gettin conflicting answers and i dont know what to believe..i guess ill trust my ears and when the amp is on full range the mids sound great and on HIgh pass they sound like tweeters. IF anyone can help me i'd appreciate it... I know that no one has really said anything to offend me but i see alot of this type of stuff goin on and i know it discourages alot of ppl from asking questions and learning, which to me is the whole point of this forum..Not a contest of who is the smartest car audio person.

I didn't mean to come off at all like that. What I meant was if you weren't confident in your wiring get together with one of us for an install day. I am sure one of us would be around your area. That is what i meant by "you shoulda got some help with your install". ****, we do it all the time, all you have to do is provide the beer :). Anyways, whether you had the amp on highpass or full range, as long as the wiring through the phoenix gold crossovers was correct there is no reason the tweeters should have blown. They do a more than adequate job of keeping bass frequencies for the tweeters. The only thing i can think of is that the tweeters weren't hooked up to the tweeter section of the crossover and that is why everyone was saying to check your wiring.

Firmbiz94
12-17-2007, 05:31 PM
yea thats the thing..im pretty careful about those things and the tweeters were hooked up to the tweeter side of the crossover..when i noticed that the tweeters werent working i removed the crossover and took off the wires that were hooked up to the tweeter side..the mids kept on playing...i dunno..i never got a chance to listen to the tweeters at all and im disapointed..i ended up buyin a set of bnib infinity silk domes so we'll see how they do...i know they arent the greatest but I sniped them on ebay for 21 bucks..they usually are buy-it-now for over 50..im gonna just leave it at highpass and unbridge the amp.. everything will get 50 watts..unless the tweeter being 2 ohms gets them more power on that side of the amp.. and as far as ppl helping me out..i would love that..im from new york..just moved down here to nc and i dont know anyone...id like to meet ppl with the same interests....drink beer n shyt

Troydb
12-17-2007, 06:19 PM
Page 14 of the 9830 owner's manual (http://vault.alpine-usa.com/products/documents/OM%20CDA-9830.pdf) shows how to utilize the HPF.

Ok I tried turning on the HPF & LPF on the head unit, but there was a lot of distortion even at low volumes. The distortion was coming through the component set and not the subs. The comps are run off of their passive crossovers. The disortion only happends when the HPF is on. There is no distortion when the LPF is on and the HPF is off.

So, with the HP & LP filters off, the only adjustment I have is via the head units EQ. But that is only 4 bands which isn't that much adjustment.

Any suggestions on what I can do??? I don't have the money to go active. I just want a plug and play setup.

Firmbiz94
12-17-2007, 08:06 PM
get an eq i guess...my mids dont sound as good on HP as thet do on full range..they dont move at all on high pass....i trust you guys are telling me the right thing but when I was readin about these comps i heard that mirrors were shaking and all that..with the hp pn this doesnt happen for me..with full range they get to moving...and they dont distort,...Im gonna have to meet up with some fellow north carolinians to fine tune my system...everything is installed it just needs some deadening and tuning

tcguy85
12-17-2007, 08:14 PM
i have mine crossed at 63hz with a 12db slope and they do make all 3 of my mirrors shake. and it's deff my mids that are doing it and not my sub. when i turn the sub off they still shake just as much.

trust me, at high volume you do not want to play them full range with rap or hip hop.

i'm going to guess that you don't have a sub?

Troydb
12-17-2007, 08:58 PM
i have mine crossed at 63hz with a 12db slope and they do make all 3 of my mirrors shake. and it's deff my mids that are doing it and not my sub. when i turn the sub off they still shake just as much.

trust me, at high volume you do not want to play them full range with rap or hip hop.

i'm going to guess that you don't have a sub?

Yeah I've got two subs- 10" IDV.3's.

So what you are saying about playing them at full range wouldn't be a good thing? My component amp is a Monitor 1 amp which doesn't have a built in crossover. It just plays full range but the comps are run off their passive crossovers. Should I get a different amp or what? I'm not real sure what I should do. Everything sounds ok but it just doesn't seem to blend real well together.

tcguy85
12-17-2007, 09:15 PM
Yeah I've got two subs- 10" IDV.3's.

So what you are saying about playing them at full range wouldn't be a good thing? My component amp is a Monitor 1 amp which doesn't have a built in crossover. It just plays full range but the comps are run off their passive crossovers. Should I get a different amp or what? I'm not real sure what I should do. Everything sounds ok but it just doesn't seem to blend real well together.

why can't you use your head units crossovers?

BTW i was actually referring to the other guy who posted directly above my last post.

skydeaner
12-17-2007, 10:39 PM
If when the crossover is turned on they aren't moving at all then you have the crossover set too high. What frequency are you setting it at?

Troydb
12-18-2007, 01:37 AM
why can't you use your head units crossovers?

BTW i was actually referring to the other guy who posted directly above my last post.

Sorry didn't mean to jump in.

I can't use the head unit crossover because when I turn on the HPF there was a lot of distortion, even at low volumes. The distortion was coming through the component set and not the subs. The comps are run off of their passive crossovers. The disortion only happends when the HPF is on. There is no distortion when the LPF is on and the HPF is off.

So, with the HP & LP filters off, the only adjustment I have is via the head units EQ. But that is only 4 bands which isn't that much adjustment and just seems to make things muddy.

WrenchGuy
12-18-2007, 01:49 AM
Does your passive crossovers have the +or- 3db switch on em where are they set at? Its for the tweeter. That could be an issue also. The Octanes I used sounded way better at -3 so...maybe.

Firmbiz94
12-18-2007, 11:24 AM
yea i have a pair on 15" Sx's...but maybe i just need to feed the mids more power to get them moving at high pass...

skydeaner
12-18-2007, 12:28 PM
Still need to know what the high pass frequency is and the roll off in db/octave so that you can get proper integration with your subs.

Firmbiz94
12-18-2007, 04:21 PM
so does that mean you need to know the number that the freq is set to on my amp..im not sure but i will check and get back to you..

tcguy85
12-18-2007, 07:20 PM
are your doors are deadened and sealed? if they are try crossing the comps and the sub at 63hz with a 12 or 18db slope. if they are not deadened then try 80hz on both with a 12 or 18db slope.

i have my fronts crossed at 63hz/12db and they move plenty i also have my sub crossed at 63 hz as well but with an 18db slope. once the weather warms up i think i'll have it at 63/12 on the fronts and 50/12 on the sub. but right now my mid-bass is lacking because of the cold weather stiffening up the surround so i'm letting my sub do the catching up.

Firmbiz94
12-18-2007, 10:15 PM
no the doors arent deadend or sealed...i know i need to do that and i p lanned on doing it..i even bought plexiglass to seal it with..i have an 05 lincoln ls..when i took the door off i realized there was more shyt under there than i expected..all kinds of electronics are in there..im am goin to have a professional do that right after x-mas..or if i can find someone who can help me from here..(i'd rather do that bc i would like to learn) but nayways...the doors do have some type of cover on them that seems to seal them up pretty good.. I will be getting the whole car deadened shortly also..these things get expensive...i need to get a less expensive hobby...i already want to sell my subs and get a XXX.. anyways i do not have an eq ..i just ordered one..so right now i have no type of control over my system expect for the amp levels and treble and bass...so it should sound alot better when i get that installed.. I know Stratus R/t f a mod from roe is goin to build a new box for me shortly..maybe ill ask him to give me a few pointers when im out there.. my system just needs a good tuning. Oh yea like i said i have a pair of infinity tweeter coming in the mail. They are 2 ohms. My question is can i hook them up to the rsd crossover and then to its own inline crossover that it comes with. (This will get max power outa my amp)_So 2 things can you uput 2 crossovers on a tweeter and can you use a 2 ohm tweeter with the rsd comps if the mids are 4 ohms. I know Im a little long winded but i need opinions.

skydeaner
12-18-2007, 11:31 PM
dude, if i was anywhere near there i would help you out, but i am straight in the middle of illinois.

93civEJ1
02-11-2008, 06:36 PM
i too want more info on this. I am working with a RSD 6.5 comp set, and a concept audio CC-1252 with the components just hooked up theh regular 4ohm per channel way.

The gain is right around halfway turned up on the amp.

Concept 2 channel CC-1252 amp
Here are its specs:

4 Ohm Stereo Power (RMS): 125W X 2
4 Ohm Mono Power (RMS): 400W X 1
2 Ohm Stereo Power (RMS): 200W X 2
Signal-to-noise ratio: 100 dB
Frequency Response: 5 Hz - 50 KHz
Total Harmonic Distortion: 0.05%
Input Sensitivity: 200mV-4V
Length: 11.82"
Width: 11.66"
Height: 2.37"
Continuously variable 0 - 18dB Bass Boost
Built-in continuously variable 18dB per octave crossover, from 50Hz to 250Hz
Platinum Connectors

they are hooked up to the passive supplied crossovers, with the switch on it set to 0 (instead of +2db)

The amp is set on full range mode, (instead of HPF or LPF), and both the LPF and HPF knobs on the amp are turned all the way counter clockwise (so off)

The head unit I am using is a Pioneer Premier DEH-P640 (yeah alittle old):

http://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/POCEN/Products/Car+Audio+Video/Source/CD+Receivers/DEH-P640?tab=B

http://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_3442/34575628DEH-P640.jpg


The doors arent sealed yet (only the outer skin is deadened with 1 layer of Peal and Seal)..im still trying to decide how i want to seal my large holes, and deaden the inner layers.

But with all of that..i figured the RSD set would still sound better than it does....im afraid to really turn up my head unit for fear of blowing something. (i dont know why, i guess just being a noob). It sounds kinda flat.

If anyone can look at my HU settings, and read what all i have done, any help in pointing me the right way on setting this up would be appreciated.