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View Full Version : My '91 Toyota MR2 12inch Sub Box Design --EXPERT OPINIONS PLEASE--



hmong337
12-06-2007, 10:33 PM
I want to build two of these enclosures. One behind each seat.

Top depth: 3"
Bottom depth: 14"
Width: 18"
Height: 26"

Using 3/4 MDF, it should give me a volume of around 2 cubes. I want to tune it for 32hz. I listen to hip-hop/rap and I want this box to pound those low deep bass lines. I'm looking for around 700-800rms. That should be sufficient in my 2-seater cabin (I think).

I will be running these if I go ahead with this project.

PIONEER TS-W1207D4 (TSW1207D4)
12" DUAL 4-Ohm PREMIER Series 1200W SUBWOOFER
http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/millionbuy_1978_102566217


HOWEVER, a car club buddy of mine (also has an MR2) said that our cabin is too small for 12" subs to sound good... Even if it's in a proper box! He also mentioned something about our car's "transfer function" and not having enough cabin volume, or length, to utilize the 12" subs wavelength?

Is this true?


EDIT:
for those of you that wanted to see pics of my car. i don't have a very good camera...
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/hmong337/MR2/DSC05728.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/hmong337/MR2/Le3.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/hmong337/MR2/DSC05775.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/hmong337/MR2/DSC05750.jpg

MTXman
12-06-2007, 10:35 PM
Not at all. Don't listen to the guy, he's an idiot.


Often times, smaller cabins get louder than larger ones in fact. Resonant frequency can have an effect on a driver's performance in a certain vehicle, but size is not a constant in any such factor.

With 2 cubes tuned that low, you'll have a ton of bass for that little cabin and the size of the car won't effect the driver's sq "performance" noticeably if at all.

hmong337
12-06-2007, 10:41 PM
Not at all. Don't listen to the guy, he's an idiot.


Often times, smaller cabins get louder than larger ones in fact. Resonant frequency can have an effect on a driver's performance in a certain vehicle, but size is not a constant in any such factor.

With 2 cubes tuned that low, you'll have a ton of bass for that little cabin and the size of the car won't effect the driver's sq "performance" noticeably if at all.

thank you for the prompt reply.

in your opinion, do you think this setup will sound good? anything you want to suggest to make it a little better? i mean, it's by far no means a stereo blasting car. i just love my bass and music loud.

Railrocker
12-06-2007, 10:42 PM
Is that rear engine like the old fiero (sp?) ?

93EXT
12-06-2007, 10:43 PM
Front trunk ;)





Bro, did you ever hear my car? That thing pounded and it had 10's. I know plenty about MR2's as you know and more about audio.

One thing you are forgetting here is to factor in the cars transfer function. There is not enough volume in that car NOR length for that matter to maximize the wavelengh you'll get from a 12". Not only that, but I assure you with even a 10" it makes for a very unpleasant ride. Ever been on a plane with some jackass behind you pounding his knee in the back of your seat? You are taking a lot of THEORY of 12's and applying it to a practical world that I assure you will end in dissapointment.

And I'll tell you this. You cut that bloddy car and I'll kill you myself!

Mike


Just read that on the other site and laughed.

hmong337
12-06-2007, 10:45 PM
Is that rear engine like the old fiero (sp?) ?

Yes

morgans432
12-06-2007, 10:46 PM
love these cars and they are getting harder and harder to find. Turbo one?

Railrocker
12-06-2007, 10:47 PM
Why not use the front cargo?

hmong337
12-06-2007, 10:47 PM
Front trunk ;)

I really don't want to go with a "frunk" setup... I like my spare tire for "just in case **** happens" situations ;) plus, i think they're kind of tacky...

Railrocker
12-06-2007, 10:49 PM
Ok, just an option.

I would run sealed and use AS MUCH room as you can possibly muster, Fiberglass the rear of the enclosure to get as much internal space as possible and use an MDF baffle for the front.

hmong337
12-06-2007, 10:49 PM
love these cars and they are getting harder and harder to find. Turbo one?

no, no turbo for this one. although i had a turbo mr2 before. let me tell you, those turbo mr2's are maintenance hungry money pits! never again...

tez4life
12-06-2007, 10:50 PM
I dont have anything to add to the subject, but......


I just wanted to tell the original poster thats a very, very clean MR2, I am quite jealous.;)

poundindak69
12-06-2007, 10:51 PM
Front trunk ;)





Just read that on the other site and laughed.

i got a real laugh out of that, i wonder what he would of said to me about putting a 15 in a single cab truck.LOL

PowerNaudio
12-06-2007, 11:06 PM
you're lucky you have so much room for a sub in your mr2, i have a fiero, in which i installed a center console subwoofer, in a .7cuft enclosure, and it pounded. so you having just as small of a cabin in your mr2 but a bigger area for a subwoofer enclosure, i know that car has to get balls out loud with two 12" subs, even if you go with just one, it will be loud. it may not be spl competition loud. but you'll see that every one that seats in there to get a listen to it, is going to love it. good luck with your project. post some pics of the install if you do get it going.

DarkFox
12-07-2007, 12:37 AM
your top post is kinda misleading as you said 2.2 cubes. I think that is a total number you were shooting for but the way its written looks like per enclosure. Either that or I am too tired to help... lol. Anyway.

I used this calculator
http://www.the12volt.com/caraudio/boxcalcs.asp#wed2

and plugged your numbers into box "Volume Calculator - Wedge Enclosures 2" as it sounds like thats closest to your dimensions you gave and got 1.6^3ft. Knock out woofer displacement and any decent sized port, and your looking at close to 1cube ported box. VERY small for any 12. For better sound quality I would really consider going in the largest sealed you can get per side. When you get small ported box's, you loose alot of the benefit you would usually gain from going larger ported, which is the higher gain @ lower freq.

This is hard to explain if you haven't seen what these number look like on a graph.

1. Go download win isd.
http://www.linearteam.dk/
2. Take a generic woofer as close to what you want to get, (or look up the specs and program them yourself
3. Just play with the enclosure size and tunning and you will be able to SEE what I am talking about, even with a low tunning, in a small ported box, you usually don't see a gain at the lower bass frequency's (at least not more then a sealed.)
-Program a box with a tunning freq of say 30Hz. Make it 1 cubic foot and look at what freq on the graph it cross's the -3db mark. Now change nothing exept volume, say to 3 cubic feet, observe the -3db again, this difference is what I am talking about. Also, you can then make a new project, without closing your old one, see what the plot for the woofer looks like in a sealed box. Look at what the 1.6 sealed looks like next to a 1cube ported.


Before anyone rags on that. YES, WinIsd does not give in car numbers, but NO the numbers are not useless. They are how THE BOX will affect a properly programed in driver. what alot of people forget when they badmouth winIsd graphs:
IF THE ENCLOSURE IS WRONG TO BEGIN WITH, THE TYPE OF CAR BECOMES SUPERFLUOUS INFORMATION.

Nighthawk26
12-07-2007, 12:57 AM
Not at all. Don't listen to the guy, he's an idiot.


Often times, smaller cabins get louder than larger ones in fact. Resonant frequency can have an effect on a driver's performance in a certain vehicle, but size is not a constant in any such factor.

With 2 cubes tuned that low, you'll have a ton of bass for that little cabin and the size of the car won't effect the driver's sq "performance" noticeably if at all.


Well I would be the idiot!!

I love the internet when it's filled with "knowledgable" people who post and respond most typically without thinking.

All other errors aside i'll stick with the basic and what should be most obvious. That sub is 153mm deep. How would you like him to install that sub when as he mentioned the VERy deepest point is 14"? And thats external measurement. And the taper? Did you bother to read it tapers to about 3"?

Or was your emphatic response supposed to gain some confidence from the readers?

I honestly want him to build this. EXACTLY as you tell him to so he can come back and share his dissapointments with you!

DarkFox
12-07-2007, 10:16 AM
A. Your a great friend if you want your IRL friend to fail to prove a point to people online....

B. He can change the sub to something that will fit. Shallow mount pioneer 12s for example would work fine. Also, he said 26" high. If he set a regular 12, low in the box, it should still fit. Tapers from 14 to 3 in 26", if he mounted in the bottom half he would have between 14 and about 8 1/2, leaving the basket extending at a angle towards a corner. would probably fit.

C. I have heard people say before about the cabin space not allowing the wave to build in certain vehicles. Lets think about this.
*First, a sound wave (as applies to wavelength) is not woofer dependant and generally alot longer then people think.
***Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_sound the speed of sound is 1130feet per second (770MpH)
***A 30Hz wave alternates 30 times in 1 second, its wavelength would be the distance 1 full wave would fill. Sound traveling at 1130 FPS and it alternating 30 times in that second means you simply divide, 1130FPS / 30APS(alternations per second) = 37.66 repeating Feet/alternation(wavelength.)

If you think think that the size of car has to match the wavelength or give it room to build, you are mistaken, no car is gonna give you the space needed on the logic you are using.


Now taking that out of the equasion, lets look at woofer selection. People say 12 is to big in that car, get a 10 for *insert miss-lead infromation here.*
The difference in subs, besided inheritent aspect of larger, being a little harder to move, and slightly prone to lower freq, is Surface area and throw. Size of woofers (all other things equal) is more going to decide pressure (volume.) So if the boxes are = in characteristics (scaled up for relative change in size as you get larger, not the same box with different subs) Sizing up the woofer should make it louder on the same note in the car, as you are increasing surface area of the driver, but maintaing the same tunning freqs.




In short, if boxes are equal, throw is equal, watts are scalled up slightly by size (to overcome added resistance of air with increased surface area) of driver. Larger woofer = louder

When it comes to the sound quality or tone, if all other things are equal, this is decided by the enclosures tunning and match to the characteristics of the sub with a VERY minimal correction for size of vehicle.

ALHII303
12-07-2007, 01:21 PM
Hmong, i'm wondering how your depth at the bottom is 14" did you cut your storage boxes.

Railrocker
12-07-2007, 01:23 PM
Well I would be the idiot!!

I love the internet when it's filled with "knowledgable" people who post and respond most typically without thinking.

All other errors aside i'll stick with the basic and what should be most obvious. That sub is 153mm deep. How would you like him to install that sub when as he mentioned the VERy deepest point is 14"? And thats external measurement. And the taper? Did you bother to read it tapers to about 3"?

Or was your emphatic response supposed to gain some confidence from the readers?

I honestly want him to build this. EXACTLY as you tell him to so he can come back and share his dissapointments with you!

Welcome to the forum idiot :)

SuperchargedRS
12-07-2007, 01:31 PM
nice ride, those are one of the better handling auto-x cars.

PowerNaudio
12-07-2007, 03:01 PM
hey hmong337 got any more pics of your ride? its pretty sweet. it will be easier for us to help you figure out possible installation methods, if you could provide us with a picture or two of the area you have in mind for these subs to be installed at with the dimensions if possible. video of your ride doing a burn out would help out too. lol

Nighthawk26
12-07-2007, 06:50 PM
A. Your a great friend if you want your IRL friend to fail to prove a point to people online....

B. He can change the sub to something that will fit. Shallow mount pioneer 12s for example would work fine. Also, he said 26" high. If he set a regular 12, low in the box, it should still fit. Tapers from 14 to 3 in 26", if he mounted in the bottom half he would have between 14 and about 8 1/2, leaving the basket extending at a angle towards a corner. would probably fit.

C. I have heard people say before about the cabin space not allowing the wave to build in certain vehicles. Lets think about this.
*First, a sound wave (as applies to wavelength) is not woofer dependant and generally alot longer then people think.
***Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_sound the speed of sound is 1130feet per second (770MpH)
***A 30Hz wave alternates 30 times in 1 second, its wavelength would be the distance 1 full wave would fill. Sound traveling at 1130 FPS and it alternating 30 times in that second means you simply divide, 1130FPS / 30APS(alternations per second) = 37.66 repeating Feet/alternation(wavelength.)

If you think think that the size of car has to match the wavelength or give it room to build, you are mistaken, no car is gonna give you the space needed on the logic you are using.


Now taking that out of the equasion, lets look at woofer selection. People say 12 is to big in that car, get a 10 for *insert miss-lead infromation here.*
The difference in subs, besided inheritent aspect of larger, being a little harder to move, and slightly prone to lower freq, is Surface area and throw. Size of woofers (all other things equal) is more going to decide pressure (volume.) So if the boxes are = in characteristics (scaled up for relative change in size as you get larger, not the same box with different subs) Sizing up the woofer should make it louder on the same note in the car, as you are increasing surface area of the driver, but maintaing the same tunning freqs.




In short, if boxes are equal, throw is equal, watts are scalled up slightly by size (to overcome added resistance of air with increased surface area) of driver. Larger woofer = louder

When it comes to the sound quality or tone, if all other things are equal, this is decided by the enclosures tunning and match to the characteristics of the sub with a VERY minimal correction for size of vehicle.


TO your "A" point, call it frustration as this has acrried over from other boards. I don't want him to do it to fail to prove my point. My statement was more an attempt to show just how confident I am that this setup will not make him happy or give him what he is looking for. I want him to look at things objectively after establishing a solid foundation of knowledge fo rhim to make his decisions and not just keep asking a question till he hears the answer he wants to hear.

I know this car. He knows this car. I know audio, and I know audio in this car. I know the space thats being worked with, and there will be a hell of a lot more in terms of compromise than gains here.

Bottom line is that it's his call.

Nighthawk26
12-07-2007, 07:00 PM
I will post a pic I have for him. I can tell you without cutting into the car this is the deepest you can go. This is an IDQ10 and with the throw and the seat at about MID position it slaps the back panel of the seat making an annoying sound. The box is ABOUT .65 cf, hard to say for sure with so many curves and this is fiberglass except parts of the side and the back. Should give you an idea of the space beign worked with. That magnet is ALMOST touching the back of the enclosure. WOW I'm bad with uploading. If a mod wants to resize those feel free... sorry guys!

http://www.kbox.ca/upload/files/50/IMG_0110.JPG
http://www.kbox.ca/upload/files/50/IMG_0109.JPG

kuijo
12-07-2007, 07:02 PM
Good God man, You might want to think about resizing those.

Scoobydoo
12-07-2007, 07:08 PM
hmm wouldnt a 30hz note have the same wavelength from a 10" sub as it does from a 12" sub? what does the cone size of a sub have to do with a certain frequencies wavelength?

DarkFox
12-07-2007, 07:19 PM
hmm wouldnt a 30hz note have the same wavelength from a 10" sub as it does from a 12" sub? what does the cone size of a sub have to do with a certain frequencies wavelength?

this is the shortened version of my post ;-)

Scoobydoo
12-07-2007, 07:22 PM
lol, i didnt read

imo a single decent 12" sub in a sealed box behind the passenger with about 800 watts would be more than enough for an mr2

i wouldnt want the sub pounding the back of my seat non stop whenever i was driving

Nighthawk26
12-07-2007, 07:26 PM
lol, i didnt read

imo a single decent 12" sub in a sealed box behind the passenger with about 800 watts would be more than enough for an mr2

i wouldnt want the sub pounding the back of my seat non stop whenever i was driving

Already tried that approach. I've sat in the passanger side with the IDQ10, not pleasant.

Nighthawk26
12-07-2007, 07:31 PM
hmm wouldnt a 30hz note have the same wavelength from a 10" sub as it does from a 12" sub? what does the cone size of a sub have to do with a certain frequencies wavelength?

Valid point!

What I should have emphasized when I started to discuss transfer function with hmong on another board is that it wil increase frequency output at the given cars transfer function. That needs to be established and frankly I have not bothered to do the math on it. He is caught up tuning this box to 32hz or whatever and is not factoring any of the calculations into the car it will go in. All theoretical out of environment design.

And no one has yet to eplain how you're gonna fit a ported box tuned to 32hz in the back of that car. And for TWO subs none the less.

Scoobydoo
12-07-2007, 07:31 PM
Already tried that approach. I've sat in the passanger side with the IDQ10, not pleasant.

who cares about the passenger as long as the driver is happy. the driver is going to be the one in the car 100% of the time, when there is a passenger he can turn it down if needed

Scoobydoo
12-07-2007, 07:33 PM
Valid point!

What I should have emphasized when I started to discuss transfer function with hmong on another board is that it wil increase frequency output at the given cars transfer function. That needs to be established and frankly I have not bothered to do the math on it. He is caught up tuning this box to 32hz or whatever and is not factoring any of the calculations into the car it will go in. All theoretical out of environment design.

And no one has yet to eplain how you're gonna fit a ported box tuned to 32hz in the back of that car. And for TWO subs none the less.

if his user name(hmong) is any indication he is probably a 5 foot tall asian guy so he probably has plenty of room to spare once he bellies up to the wheel and puts his booster pillow on the seat

Nighthawk26
12-07-2007, 07:41 PM
who cares about the passenger as long as the driver is happy. the driver is going to be the one in the car 100% of the time, when there is a passenger he can turn it down if needed

I know but he wants TWO 12's. Next someone here is gonna say you can get 2 behind each seat?

Scoobydoo
12-07-2007, 07:47 PM
I know but he wants TWO 12's. Next someone here is gonna say you can get 2 behind each seat?

i realize that, but he also wants pioneer, i was saying a decent single 12" sub would be a much better option that 2 12" pioneers and it would have the advantage of not pounding your back all the time

Nighthawk26
12-07-2007, 07:58 PM
agreed

PowerNaudio
12-07-2007, 08:53 PM
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/6/web/402000-402999/402743_45_full.jpg

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/402743/5
Here is a link to the 12" ported subwoofer enclosure, i built for my fiero, i did have to push the passenger seat forward about 3" to make it fit properly but it pounded and sounded clean. it could of been done better if i had done a version 2 of it after my friend bought it from me to put in his truck. i didnt get any pictures of it in the fiero, but you get the idea, the fiero has just as much space behind the seats as the mr2 if not less. so im sure you can fit a bigger enclosure then the one i built. if you mount the amplifier on the driver side rather then on the enclosure like i did.

hmong337
12-08-2007, 03:08 AM
Great discussion guys. Keep the ideas and their reasonings coming.


your top post is kinda misleading as you said 2.2 cubes. I think that is a total number you were shooting for but the way its written looks like per enclosure. Either that or I am too tired to help... lol. Anyway.

I used this calculator
http://www.the12volt.com/caraudio/boxcalcs.asp#wed2

and plugged your numbers into box "Volume Calculator - Wedge Enclosures 2" as it sounds like thats closest to your dimensions you gave and got 1.6^3ft. Knock out woofer displacement and any decent sized port, and your looking at close to 1cube ported box. VERY small for any 12. For better sound quality I would really consider going in the largest sealed you can get per side. When you get small ported box's, you loose alot of the benefit you would usually gain from going larger ported, which is the higher gain @ lower freq.

This is hard to explain if you haven't seen what these number look like on a graph.

1. Go download win isd.
http://www.linearteam.dk/
2. Take a generic woofer as close to what you want to get, (or look up the specs and program them yourself
3. Just play with the enclosure size and tunning and you will be able to SEE what I am talking about, even with a low tunning, in a small ported box, you usually don't see a gain at the lower bass frequency's (at least not more then a sealed.)
-Program a box with a tunning freq of say 30Hz. Make it 1 cubic foot and look at what freq on the graph it cross's the -3db mark. Now change nothing exept volume, say to 3 cubic feet, observe the -3db again, this difference is what I am talking about. Also, you can then make a new project, without closing your old one, see what the plot for the woofer looks like in a sealed box. Look at what the 1.6 sealed looks like next to a 1cube ported.


Before anyone rags on that. YES, WinIsd does not give in car numbers, but NO the numbers are not useless. They are how THE BOX will affect a properly programed in driver. what alot of people forget when they badmouth winIsd graphs:
IF THE ENCLOSURE IS WRONG TO BEGIN WITH, THE TYPE OF CAR BECOMES SUPERFLUOUS INFORMATION.

You are correct. I screwed up on the numbers. I'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to car audio. However, do you think a 1.6cube sealed would be good for what I'm going after? That nice deep low bass...


Hmong, i'm wondering how your depth at the bottom is 14" did you cut your storage boxes.

That's why I'm here... to get second opinions to see if it's really worth cutting out my storage boxes for an audio setup that will pound. Still debating whether I want to hack my car up... I really don't want to but if I could get a nice subwoofer setup by doing so, they're GONE!


hey hmong337 got any more pics of your ride? its pretty sweet. it will be easier for us to help you figure out possible installation methods, if you could provide us with a picture or two of the area you have in mind for these subs to be installed at with the dimensions if possible. video of your ride doing a burn out would help out too. lol

I went and got pics from storage. Will post up in a sec...


lol, i didnt read

imo a single decent 12" sub in a sealed box behind the passenger with about 800 watts would be more than enough for an mr2

i wouldnt want the sub pounding the back of my seat non stop whenever i was driving

I really don't mind... really. I'm a basshead. However, I will definitely be putting a switch to turn the subs on and off.


if his user name(hmong) is any indication he is probably a 5 foot tall asian guy so he probably has plenty of room to spare once he bellies up to the wheel and puts his booster pillow on the seat

LOL too **** funny! I'm actually considered tall for Hmong people and I'm only 5'9! Good that you know a little about my background hahaha.

cheers.

hmong337
12-08-2007, 03:12 AM
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/hmong337/MR2%20Inside/IMG_0022.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/hmong337/MR2%20Inside/IMG_0019.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/hmong337/MR2%20Inside/IMG_0018.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/hmong337/MR2%20Inside/IMG_0017.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/hmong337/MR2%20Inside/IMG_0028.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/hmong337/MR2%20Inside/IMG_0027.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/hmong337/MR2%20Inside/IMG_0026.jpg

DarkFox
12-08-2007, 12:27 PM
Deep low bass almost always = large ported with alot of port area :fyi:
Put it in the front trunk and make a cutout for a areo port to extend into the cabin IMO



TBH though I have never seen inside one, so that is a guess, have no Idea how much space yoru working with in the front.

hmong337
12-08-2007, 01:15 PM
so given my constraints with space, size of box, ect., would it be better for me to go with a smaller sub in an optimal ported box? let's say an 8" in a 1.25 cube ported box tuned to 32hz? from my understanding, it will still hit deep and low but not be as loud?

...i don't want to use the front trunk for anything but storing my amp and spare tire. so that's not an option for me.

any ideas? I want atleast a minimum of 500-600rms in the cabin... low deep bass

DarkFox
12-08-2007, 01:20 PM
bigger subs generaly handle lower tones better also, but you may be able to get a smaller sub and right box to do it, heck, look what bose does with like 4" woofers. Anyway, usualy the higher power handling subs, still have huge basket structures. But you may be on the right track. I would say to look at kicker. A square 10 for example still has about the same surface area as a 12. but the baskets worry me. Maybe a nice pair of L5 10" subs.

DarkFox
12-08-2007, 01:25 PM
just as a example you can get a good deal on 2 10" L5s here
http://cgi.ebay.com/2-KICKER-SOLOBARIC-S10L5-10-L5-1800W-SUBS-NEW-PAIR-06_W0QQitemZ250195376052QQihZ015QQcategoryZ3291QQs sPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

and a good amp to drive em here:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_6522_Hifonics+BXi+1206D.html


Also, if you call sonic they will usualy price match on the subs and then you will save more money in combined shipping ;-)

hmong337
12-08-2007, 01:36 PM
in fact, i'm looking at 8" L7's at the moment... rated at 450rms each. but i don't know if they'll hit low and deep even in a ported 1cube.

I found this guy's setup on the mr2ownersclub. he claims to have 1 cube per box. they look awfully small though...
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/2678000-2678999/2678193_2_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/2678000-2678999/2678193_6_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/2678000-2678999/2678193_12_full.jpg


This memeber seems to have a good setup. But his box seems too small for his 8" JL-W7.
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f87/gt4cody/cars/MR2/sub_setups/JL%208W7/wmr2/DSC00717.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f87/gt4cody/cars/MR2/sub_setups/JL%208W7/wmr2/DSC00714.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f87/gt4cody/cars/MR2/sub_setups/JL%208W7/wmr2/DSC00715.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f87/gt4cody/cars/MR2/sub_setups/JL%208W7/wmr2/DSC00716.jpg

hmong337
12-10-2007, 06:22 PM
any other suggestions?

DarkFox
12-10-2007, 09:07 PM
at the end of the day you just have to realize, without going into the front, you just dont have alot of room to work with. We have probably exhausted all options without cutting / going into other compartments.

hmong337
12-11-2007, 10:15 AM
thanks for the replies everyone. i just wanted to make sure no stone was unturned. and after taking a second look in the cabin, 12's are simply going to be way too much work. i even looked into fiberglassing... it's just way too much work for the intended box that i want to build. i guess it's time to scrap this idea and start my research over with two 10's.

again, thank you for all the informative replies.

-hmong337