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photocrazy8
11-18-2007, 09:53 PM
Ok i know there has new info going around that with flared ports you can use half the port area of a slot port, I think the correct number was 56% less. I am building a box that is about 6.5 cubes per chamber. Each chamber will have an 18 Inch LMS-Ultra. I am tunig the box to 30 Hz. I am debating if i should do 2 or 3 flared 6in ports per chamber. My goal is SQL, more emphasis on the SQ since i know 2 18's off 6k will get loud enough. The subs will be up and the ports back. I am worried if i do 2 that will be choaking the subs, but three might be too much since you can get away with less port area with flared ports.

Thanks, Andrew

mobeious
11-18-2007, 09:55 PM
ur going the wrong way with 18's to achieve sq even sql

photocrazy8
11-18-2007, 09:56 PM
ur going the wrong way with 18's to achieve sq even sql

Those ultra 18's are more accurate than most 10's

mobeious
11-18-2007, 09:57 PM
ummm i dought that

photocrazy8
11-18-2007, 09:57 PM
ummm i dought that

have u heard one?

mobeious
11-18-2007, 09:58 PM
yup

photocrazy8
11-18-2007, 10:00 PM
yup

well maybe it was not set up the correct way. cause when elias, brandon and i listened to one brandon said it was one of the most accurate subs he has ever heard.

mobeious
11-18-2007, 10:02 PM
who is brandon?? by accurate what did he mean

RAM_Designs
11-18-2007, 10:02 PM
Those ultra 18's are more accurate than most 10's

TC is known for having made VERY high inductance drivers(TC3k and above). The LMS really is no exception. Will it have a VERY linear stroke? Yes. Will it have low enough inductance to keep up with quick moving bass lines? More than likely not.

Notice how they don't even list the inductance on any of their subs anymore...I remember my TC3k having somewhere in the range of 25mh. Definitely a slow reacting subwoofer that couldn't keep up with quick bass lines. Popped in some assassins with 3mh....world of difference.

mobeious
11-18-2007, 10:09 PM
thnk u

photocrazy8
11-18-2007, 10:09 PM
who is brandon?? by accurate what did he mean

dalucifer

it kept up with double bass very well. we did have it in a sealed box...

mobeious
11-18-2007, 10:11 PM
what car have u heard to determin what SQ sounds like.... do u know what the idea of SQ is? just wondering

photocrazy8
11-18-2007, 10:11 PM
TC is known for having made VERY high inductance drivers(TC3k and above). The LMS really is no exception. Will it have a VERY linear stroke? Yes. Will it have low enough inductance to keep up with quick moving bass lines? More than likely not.

Notice how they don't even list the inductance on any of their subs anymore...I remember my TC3k having somewhere in the range of 25mh. Definitely a slow reacting subwoofer that couldn't keep up with quick bass lines. Popped in some assassins with 3mh....world of difference.

You do have a great point here and i will make sure to ak thilo about it when i call him tomorrow. I dont really listen to a lot of music with quick bass i dont think that will be too much of a problem. my question is about ports though...

Thanks you for the advise and thought, it will be taken into consideration....

photocrazy8
11-18-2007, 10:13 PM
what car have u heard to determin what SQ sounds like.... do u know what the idea of SQ is? just wondering

yea, brandon has a charger that is completly SQ, Active, optical, H701, tera labs RCA's to the amps, Aura sub, Aura amps, Vifa tweets, and i forget the mids...

So i know what SQ sounds like but i listen to a different stle of music than him so, i dont need that Aura sub stage, but i will be running active with the H701, Vifa Tweets and my mids are undecided...

mobeious
11-18-2007, 10:13 PM
and the idea behind sq... as in the objective

2000LaDe
11-18-2007, 10:16 PM
ur going the wrong way with 18's to achieve sq even sql

u obviously are new in car audio. size means absolutely nothing on how well a speaker acts with music.

photocrazy8
11-18-2007, 10:16 PM
My goal is SQL with no distortion that is why i chose the LMS's. The LMS's are one of the best low distortion drivers for purchace...

photocrazy8
11-18-2007, 10:18 PM
and the idea behind sq... as in the objective

The blending of the front stage with the sub stage, I'm no noob so dont talk to me like one, I am looking for a sub stage that will not distort, not too interested in the blending of the front and sub stage ATM, when i do i will be picking up some Focal 12's, Thanks, Andrew

mobeious
11-18-2007, 10:27 PM
u obviously are new in car audio. size means absolutely nothing on how well a speaker acts with music.

so i guess every subwoofer sounds the same huh....lol..looks like ur the noob


The blending of the front stage with the sub stage, I'm no noob so dont talk to me like one, I am looking for a sub stage that will not distort, not too interested in the blending of the front and sub stage ATM, when i do i will be picking up some Focal 12's, Thanks, Andrew

thats not the idea of sq but anyway set ur amps correctly and no sub distorts :)

photocrazy8
11-18-2007, 10:32 PM
thats not the idea of sq but anyway set ur amps correctly and no sub distorts :)

then were you talking about the goal of a flat responce? if you know so much then enlighten us...

Linear coils help achieve clean low bass so that is one of my goals too...

2000LaDe
11-18-2007, 10:33 PM
so i guess every subwoofer sounds the same huh....lol..looks like ur the noob
:)

huh??? thats definetly not what i said. u were making it sound like 18's couldnt do sq... so u telling me i look like a noob cuz u cant fckin read is retarded. u can have a sloppy 10" sub but a tight 18" sub that keeps up. when dealing with SQ alot has to do with the enclosure let along the clean power and the tuning of every little thing in your setup.

2000LaDe
11-18-2007, 10:34 PM
gaurentee u my Treo SSX 18's pwnt w/e u have in sq and i had 4 on 4 4kw's.

J31Rob
11-18-2007, 10:37 PM
so i guess every subwoofer sounds the same huh....lol..looks like ur the noob

Your headline says "I wonder what 0 hz sounds like"..

& you're calling someone else a noob?

Looks like it's time to consider suicide. :fyi:

photocrazy8
11-18-2007, 10:37 PM
please no pissing contests in my thread, i am going about this all in a nice way...

mobeious
11-18-2007, 10:38 PM
im just saying if he is going for SQ 2 18's ported is not the way to go and size has alot to do with the way a sub acts heavier cone (18") cant move as fast as a lighter cone(10)

J31Rob
11-18-2007, 10:39 PM
im just saying if he is going for SQ 2 18's ported is not the way to go and size has alot to do with the way a sub acts heavier cone (18") cant move as fast as a lighter cone(10)

Quit talking dude.



I think you've got plenty enough room, roughly 6 cubes per woofer after all displacements, you'll be very happy w/the results.

mobeious
11-18-2007, 10:39 PM
what does 0hz sounds like is a good question have u ever heard it... idiot .... its for noobs like u to comment on,, 2000lade and when ever u want to go at let me know u might be louder but i sound better lol

SeanDub
11-18-2007, 10:41 PM
:fyi:

:fyi: mobeious = not newb :fyi:

photocrazy8
11-18-2007, 10:41 PM
Quit talking dude.



I think you've got plenty enough room, roughly 6 cubes per woofer after all displacements, you'll be very happy w/the results.

im talking about port area, not volume of the box...

photocrazy8
11-18-2007, 10:42 PM
:fyi:

:fyi: mobeious = not newb :fyi:

please post something usefull in my thread...

J31Rob
11-18-2007, 10:42 PM
what does 0hz sounds like is a good question have u ever heard it... idiot .... its for noobs like u to comment on,, 2000lade and when ever u want to go at let me know u might be louder but i sound better lol

SMH @ you bro. I'll respect dude by not dumping all on his thread more than I already have.. so here is this:


Noun
Inflected forms: pl.hertz Abbr. Hz A unit of frequency equal to one cycle per second.

If it's 0 hertz.. there are no cycles.. and/or no sound..

Thank you & come again.


:fyi:

:fyi: mobeious = not newb :fyi:

:fyi: Me = not newb :fyi:

:fyi::fyi::fyi::fyi::fyi:

J31Rob
11-18-2007, 10:44 PM
im talking about port area, not volume of the box...

My fault. Mis-read.

mobeious
11-18-2007, 10:44 PM
here ill help ya out if u want a flat reponce try 9-12 cubes per driver tuned around 28hz

SeanDub
11-18-2007, 10:44 PM
As for teh OP port area question - 2 6" aeros should suffice. Apparently the witch math that's been going around the forum indicates that 1/2 area is needed when using aeros vs slot. So 6.5 cubes x 16 sq in (rec port area per cube) = 117 sq in. 2 6" Aeros = 56.5 sq in, which is roughly half of 117. So 2 will do, but personally, I would use 3 just to be safe. But 2 should be fine.

SeanDub
11-18-2007, 10:45 PM
please post something usefull in my thread...

See above. The only useful thing here.

mobeious
11-18-2007, 10:45 PM
no **** 0hz = no cycles that was the point of putting it on there

photocrazy8
11-18-2007, 10:46 PM
im just saying if he is going for SQ 2 18's ported is not the way to go and size has alot to do with the way a sub acts heavier cone (18") cant move as fast as a lighter cone(10)

It also depends on what the cone material is etc, I listen to rap and hip hop mostly and I also stated that I am looking for low low distortion subs with a long throw, the linear coil will help hit the deeper notes with greater accuracy so please answer my question and not get all over my case cause i stated that im looking for some SQ in my sub stage. If i was going for an SQ set up i would be running an active substage and line sources in my A pillars...

J31Rob
11-18-2007, 10:46 PM
As for teh OP port area question - 2 6" aeros should suffice. Apparently the witch math that's been going around the forum indicates that 1/2 area is needed when using aeros vs slot. So 6.5 cubes x 16 sq in (rec port area per cube) = 117 sq in. 2 6" Aeros = 56.5 sq in, which is roughly half of 117. So 2 will do, but personally, I would use 3 just to be safe. But 2 should be fine.

Agreed.

Also, if you're in need of custom 6" aeros, I make them. :fyi:


no **** 0hz = no cycles that was the point of putting it on there

You put an apparently easily answered question on your headline.. o........... k.......... ? Yeeeeah. Anyway..

photocrazy8
11-18-2007, 10:47 PM
See above. The only useful thing here.

Thank you so much, thats exactly what i was looking for :)

SeanDub
11-18-2007, 10:48 PM
You're welcome.

mobeious
11-18-2007, 10:49 PM
It also depends on what the cone material is etc, I listen to rap and hip hop mostly and I also stated that I am looking for low low distortion subs with a long throw, the linear coil will help hit the deeper notes with greater accuracy so please answer my question and not get all over my case cause i stated that im looking for some SQ in my sub stage. If i was going for an SQ set up i would be running an active substage and line sources in my A pillars...



oh i forgot they started runnin subs on passive crossovers lol .... ill get out of this post for ya lol

photocrazy8
11-18-2007, 10:50 PM
oh i forgot they started runnin subs on passive crossovers lol .... ill get out of this post for ya lol

My bad i ment more that one sub for my sub stage...

photocrazy8
11-18-2007, 10:51 PM
oh i forgot they started runnin subs on passive crossovers lol .... ill get out of this post for ya lol

If you would have a civil discussion then ur more than welcome here...

mobeious
11-18-2007, 10:53 PM
what does is matter runnin 1 sub or 2 subs for SQ

photocrazy8
11-18-2007, 10:55 PM
what does is matter runnin 1 sub or 2 subs for SQ

with more subs you can have each sub play a diff frequency range, they would have to be diff size subs, I had the chance to listen to a multi sub - substage at TC sounds, and it was amazing...

mobeious
11-18-2007, 10:57 PM
lol ok if u say so

SeanDub
11-18-2007, 10:59 PM
with more subs you can have each sub play a diff frequency range, they would have to be diff size subs, I had the chance to listen to a multi sub - substage at TC sounds, and it was amazing...

Not to bash you, but uh, how are you getting to install 18" LMS ultras? They should be taken from you immediately due to the above post. You think multi-sub setups with different size subs are awesome? You fail.

newusername
11-18-2007, 11:03 PM
The LMS-5400 (and the related LMS-Ultra) has really, really low inductance. Just because it is LMS doesn't mean inductance is necessarily huge. If I remember correctly, the LMS-5400/LMS-Ultra has a full copper sleeve and a large shorting ring. Indutance and inductance variation is minimal...better even than some underhung drivers.

The LMS-5400/LMS-Ultra is simply the lowest distortion driver I have ever seen measured and every review I have seen of it has been glowing. I have an LMS-Ultra on it's way here and will let you know what I think of it, but the performance others have experienced speaks for the driver already.

As for other comments, the mass of the driver can be considered a bit of a highpass filter the same way that inductance is a bit of a lowpass filter. In this case, inductance is so low that your upper frequency extension is not a concern, and there is enough mass to give you pretty strong low frequency extension. Of course, the low frequency performance will mostly be dictated by your enclosure. The mass is relevant in that it is used to describe the driver's damping, but is not a significant limiter on the upper limits of your bandwidth.

You've got a great driver. The amount of port area will depend on the power you have on tap. I probably wouldn't even bother with a flared port as it will be tough to get the length of each individual port into the enclosure. I'd do a slot port with at least 100 square inches per chamber. It would be a lot easier, no doubt.

mobeious
11-18-2007, 11:03 PM
http://www.funnyforumpics.com/forums/fail/4/fail2it9.jpg

photocrazy8
11-18-2007, 11:10 PM
Not to bash you, but uh, how are you getting to install 18" LMS ultras? They should be taken from you immediately due to the above post. You think multi-sub setups with different size subs are awesome? You fail.

Idk how it work, but think Thilo knows a lil more than you....

mobeious
11-18-2007, 11:12 PM
why just because he works at a subwoofer manufactor??

SeanDub
11-18-2007, 11:14 PM
Idk how it work, but think Thilo knows a lil more than you....

He might, but you might not fyi. And even if he does he can still be wrong. Like you.

photocrazy8
11-18-2007, 11:14 PM
why just because he works at a subwoofer manufactor??

He owns it, and is the engineer for all the subs...

photocrazy8
11-18-2007, 11:15 PM
He might, but you might not fyi. And even if he does he can still be wrong. Like you.

I believe they were running a pair of 18's, a pair of 10's, and then a pair of line sources, it could have been geared more towards HT though...

SeanDub
11-18-2007, 11:21 PM
I dunno. Whatever, you got your initial question answered. Your woofers are going to sound great because they are great woofers.

/thread

IgnoreMe
11-19-2007, 02:18 AM
man, all this for a thread that was originally about ports...

either way to the OP. the 56% calculation was based on a specific amount of flare radius (i believe it was 1"). you can use devil drivers post over on soundsolutionsaudio.com if you want to see how to calculate the reduction of vent velocity using a specific flare radius.

a bigger flare will reduce vent velocity even more, and a smaller will do the opposite. either way, if you're going to use standard aero ports you can get away with about 50-60% less than a slot port.


Thanks Willd. So if my calculations are correct, the radius of the flare is 29/32", or .90625", yes? this is a quote i found over at AVS regarding the 6" psp ports. so they do use a about a 1" flare which puts it pretty close to the above math. im using the quote because i have no gotten a chance to play with the psp ports.