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View Full Version : who has built a PERFECT box before?



IgnoreMe
10-09-2007, 11:17 PM
i have never built a perfect box before. using a circular saw, i have always been off by a bit, and the sides have never been perfectly lined up.

has anyone, WITHOUT a tablesaw, ever build an absolutely perfect box?

do i just **** at life? should i start smoking again?

this thread came to mind, because once again....1 wall was off by 1/8" and another sloped down 1/16" or so from a perfect other side of my back piece.

should i commit suicide?

EnvEe 02
10-09-2007, 11:19 PM
I dont think anyone has ever built a perfect box with any saw

dvrmstrng
10-09-2007, 11:20 PM
i cut my boxes with a moonbeam laser from goldeneye...they come out perfect every time

IgnoreMe
10-09-2007, 11:21 PM
I dont think anyone has ever built a perfect box with any saw

good catch lol, you know what i meant jerk :(

HellsRise
10-09-2007, 11:21 PM
After my 4th box with a circular saw, I'm convinced it's not possible to get it perfect without a table saw.

IgnoreMe
10-09-2007, 11:22 PM
btw i should mention, this would be ok with liquid nails...but i stopped using that **** long ago when i used wood glue for the first time and realized why its a better idea to stick with the real deal ****

05gliguy
10-09-2007, 11:23 PM
table saw > circular saw :crap:

IgnoreMe
10-09-2007, 11:23 PM
After my 4th box with a circular saw, I'm convinced it's not possible to get it perfect without a table saw.

so im not a complete waste of space? or are we both worthless?

EnvEe 02
10-09-2007, 11:23 PM
After my 4th box with a circular saw, I'm convinced it's not possible to get it perfect without a table saw.

Even with a table saw you wont get the perfect cut. The last box I made, I had my uncle who is a carpenter for something like 30 years cut the wood on a table saw. It was **** close but you can still find flaws.

But I guess to the normal eye its about as perfect as it will get.

the727kid
10-09-2007, 11:24 PM
4 hours of sanding I've made the box perfect :fyi:

NEVER have homedepot cut your wood, built a box this weekend for a friend and he had wood cut by home depot. The sides were off by a 1/4"....HUGE gap in the port walls...lots of silicone had to fix that.

Now with a table saw and a good person making the cuts, you can make a perfect box pretty easily.

IgnoreMe
10-09-2007, 11:24 PM
table saw > circular saw :crap:
hey still better than when i had my first box cut out at home depot....

i ****ing made sure to cut peoples **** dead on when i was working at lowes....****ers cant give me the same courtesy

Haden
10-09-2007, 11:26 PM
i think u should start smoking again.

05gliguy
10-09-2007, 11:26 PM
again, lowes > home depot imo :laugh:

I use a table saw to build my boxes. I'll have to get a pic up tomorrow of a box that I recently built for myself.

IgnoreMe
10-09-2007, 11:27 PM
i think u should start smoking again.no **** huh. at least ill THINK i built a perfect box.

lilmaniac2
10-09-2007, 11:27 PM
power sander > ALL :)

IgnoreMe
10-09-2007, 11:27 PM
again, lowes > home depot imo :laugh:

I use a table saw to build my boxes. I'll have to get a pic up tomorrow of a box that I recently built for myself.

you really shouldnt post any pics...i have my emo certified razors right here :fyi:

IgnoreMe
10-09-2007, 11:29 PM
power sander > ALL :)

well i used a little dinky sander (good quality porter cable) with like a 4x4 base, but it just aint big enough. im scared ill make it worse

i think a belt sander would do good though

05gliguy
10-09-2007, 11:29 PM
you really shouldnt post any pics...i have my emo certified razors right here :fyi:

Well thanks for the heads up anyway...

dcole18
10-09-2007, 11:29 PM
just make the cuts a little over and hit them with a router w/ a flush bit... problem solved... :D

Immacomputer
10-09-2007, 11:29 PM
I've built a pretty much perfect box once but I used a table saw so I guess it doesn't count. I was off by less than 1/64" on one corner and you couldn't see it with your naked eye but you could barely feel it.

My pure circular saw cuts can be pretty off; it's tricky trying to get the same line every time with a circular saw, especially if you don't have a nice work area.

Haden
10-09-2007, 11:31 PM
no **** huh. at least ill THINK i built a perfect box.

Just make sure to toke it up before u listen to it too so then it sounds like a perfect box

IgnoreMe
10-09-2007, 11:32 PM
just make the cuts a little over and hit them with a router w/ a flush bit... problem solved... :D
no access to a router, and i dont want to spend money on something because i cant cut right lol

immacomputer: x2 on getting a perfect line. its like a game of "nudge here, nudge there", then you cut the wood and realize that somehow that 1/8" blade cut into the wood you measured out

IgnoreMe
10-09-2007, 11:33 PM
Just make sure to toke it up before u listen to it too so then it sounds like a perfect box

when im baked, even ****** sounding bass sounds bomb. i will listen to 50 cent when im baked....and that is pretty embarassing

Immacomputer
10-09-2007, 11:34 PM
no access to a router, and i dont want to spend money on something because i cant cut right lol

immacomputer: x2 on getting a perfect line. its like a game of "nudge here, nudge there", then you cut the wood and realize that somehow that 1/8" blade cut into the wood you measured out

Yea, it really ***** if your cuts are over 20" as then things really can get off by a good margin.

On that box I mentioned, this was my worst corner:

http://i24.tinypic.com/24csf9k.jpg

When you looked at it up close, you couldn't see the wood not line up perfectly but with the camera, you could see it.

hoxie08
10-09-2007, 11:34 PM
Yep, 4 boxes under my belt and got 2 more to build next week....never once was it perfect, always close, but I fix what I mess up with a sander... cuts are off no more than an 1/8th inch, but I sand and cover and then looks just dandy :)

the angles are what really get me :crap:

IgnoreMe
10-09-2007, 11:35 PM
^^^^ thats a pretty good cut :fyi:

Haden
10-09-2007, 11:36 PM
Yea, it really ***** if your cuts are over 20" as then things really can get off by a good margin.

On that box I mentioned, this was my worst corner:

http://i24.tinypic.com/24csf9k.jpg

When you looked at it up close, you couldn't see the wood not line up perfectly but with the camera, you could see it.

wow i could get closer than that with my eyes closed

Tiger Bass
10-09-2007, 11:36 PM
I'll be off as much as an 1/4" when I use a circular saw...but that's why I use a table saw ;)

Haden
10-09-2007, 11:38 PM
when im baked, even ****** sounding bass sounds bomb. i will listen to 50 cent when im baked....and that is pretty embarassing

JUst smoke all the time and ur problems are solved.
Now all u have to do is buy a whole lotta weed

the727kid
10-09-2007, 11:38 PM
when im baked, even ****** sounding bass sounds bomb. i will listen to 50 cent when im baked....and that is pretty embarassing

I listen to songs with continous bass lines when I'm baked or drunk....ain't nothing better when your ****edup lol. You can slowly feel the air around you change as teh bass hits...haha its weird!

dcole18
10-09-2007, 11:39 PM
yeah but once you can build a perfect box with a circular saw... you can build it with anything...;)

tommyk90
10-09-2007, 11:40 PM
I build all my boxes with a circular saw.

My cuts are never perfect, but thats nothing that a little sanding/routering/filling can't fix. :)

Immacomputer
10-09-2007, 11:45 PM
I listen to songs with continous bass lines when I'm baked or drunk....ain't nothing better when your ****edup lol. You can slowly feel the air around you change as teh bass hits...haha its weird!

I don't know, this song made me cry and gave me chills at the same time:
http://media.putfile.com/11---K-Pax-Soundtrack---July-27th

**** was ridiculous.

Fear Factory's - Ascension was pretty crazy too. I wasn't sure if I was listening to music or if it was all going on in my head.

Whatever you do, don't listen to the Apocalypto sound track. That scared me so bad.

jblayz1
10-09-2007, 11:46 PM
i don't feel bad for being owned by my first box now. thanks fellas!!!!


*one of the voices in my head*...always remember to cut the hole for the sub smaller, not bigger....don't you ever listen when you're around your hot rod friends...."measure twice, cut once!" :furious:

PSturmer
10-10-2007, 12:12 AM
with a laser jet you could get near perfect. i once had a friend cut the wood out for me back when i was lazy. the machine gets to 1/1000 of an inch. the only thing is the laser burns the wood. you could use a water jet to prevent burning but the laser is much faster.

right now at school i get all my cuts within 1/32 of an inch. which is still good enough for any box i make.

IgnoreMe
10-10-2007, 12:23 AM
I build all my boxes with a circular saw.

My cuts are never perfect, but thats nothing that a little sanding/routering/filling can't fix. :)

filling? what do you use for filling? i would need something that would bond the wood, and hold up to the air pressure inside, without causing a leak.

immacomputer sounds like a tripper to me lol. anyways though...apocolypto was a crazy movie. so raw IMO.

Tiger Bass
10-10-2007, 12:44 AM
filling? what do you use for filling? i would need something that would bond the wood, and hold up to the air pressure inside, without causing a leak.

immacomputer sounds like a tripper to me lol. anyways though...apocolypto was a crazy movie. so raw IMO.

I don't know what he uses, but I use heavy duty, all-purpose silicone sealant on all my builds regardless of how close I make the cuts or how much glue I use.

Shyne151
10-10-2007, 12:59 AM
I can usually get pretty close with a circular saw... at home or my own boxes I use a circular saw. For customer boxes at work I use the table saw... that we can cut whole sheets on ;)

tommyk90
10-10-2007, 12:59 AM
filling? what do you use for filling? i would need something that would bond the wood, and hold up to the air pressure inside, without causing a leak.

immacomputer sounds like a tripper to me lol. anyways though...apocolypto was a crazy movie. so raw IMO.

Usually just wood glue does the job for me. :)

If the gaps are a little larger than usual then I'll fill it from the inside using some sort of sealant whether it's goop, gorilla glue, or something else like that.

ThatChevyGuy
10-10-2007, 01:00 AM
Um i did! i used a template and a skill saw and a jigsaw and a nail gun :fyi: Although my subs exceed there limit in it :(
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/8/23717274323.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=6422631)

IgnoreMe
10-10-2007, 01:03 AM
I don't know what he uses, but I use heavy duty, all-purpose silicone sealant on all my builds regardless of how close I make the cuts or how much glue I use.

well im using

"DAP- Alex Plus, Acrylic Latex Caulk Plus Silicone" to make for an air tight seal just in case, but when i run my finger over this stuff (although its only been a little while) it leaves like a chaulky residue on my finger. shouldnt this stuff dry to a rubber type seal? did i buy the wrong ****?

http://www.dap.com/images/products/hires/ALEXPLUSTUBE.jpg

tommyk: ok. yea my gaps arent that big, i am exagerating a little bit, but they do need filling for sure, cause they will leak air no prob right now.

Pyro_By_Nature
10-10-2007, 01:13 AM
It is very hard to do a perfect box with a circular saw, and no sanding.You can get close, but I wouldn't rely on it.We built a decware "wicked one" with nothing but a circular saw before.Got **** close to perfect, but messed up a little bit, oh well.

Table saws and someone who can properly use it are the way to go. Or if you got teh mad moniez, a cnc machine would be ****ing awesome.

audioholic
10-10-2007, 01:29 AM
The key to good cuts with a circular saw is having a fence clamped down to follow. I have a piece of alum that's 3/4"x1"x6' that I clamped down the appropriate distance from the cut line. Once the 'fence' was clamped down in the proper place, making the actual cut, a nice straight cut, was the easiest part.

Ive since upgraded to a table saw. The table saw is faster, easier, and abit more accurate than my old method, but my old way made very accurate cuts as well.

IgnoreMe
10-10-2007, 01:34 AM
The key to good cuts with a circular saw is having a fence clamped down to follow. I have a piece of alum that's 3/4"x1"x6' that I clamped down the appropriate distance from the cut line. Once the 'fence' was clamped down in the proper place, making the actual cut, a nice straight cut, was the easiest part.

Ive since upgraded to a table saw. The table saw is faster, easier, and abit more accurate than my old method, but my old way made very accurate cuts as well.

i tried the fence method but i find it hard to get a straight cut still because either im not cutting in a perfectly straight line, or other times i just have a hard time getting the blade to perfectly sit on my desired cut line, while trying to line up my straight end.

its basically a pain in the ***.

anyone wanna chime in on my DAP purchase?

Tiger Bass
10-10-2007, 01:35 AM
well im using

"DAP- Alex Plus, Acrylic Latex Caulk Plus Silicone" to make for an air tight seal just in case, but when i run my finger over this stuff (although its only been a little while) it leaves like a chaulky residue on my finger. shouldnt this stuff dry to a rubber type seal? did i buy the wrong ****?

http://www.dap.com/images/products/hires/ALEXPLUSTUBE.jpg

tommyk: ok. yea my gaps arent that big, i am exagerating a little bit, but they do need filling for sure, cause they will leak air no prob right now.

It's probably because that one is latex. Like I mentioned, I get the heavy duty all purpose stuff. It holds almost as tight as wood glue. I can't think of the name brand atm because it's all at my house (I'm in my appt atm).

bdawson72
10-10-2007, 01:35 AM
if you smoke the good stuff, the cuts will probably fix themselves.

Ummmmmmmmmmmm

IgnoreMe
10-10-2007, 01:36 AM
It's probably because that one is latex. Like I mentioned, I get the heavy duty all purpose stuff. It holds almost as tight as wood glue. I can't think of the name brand atm because it's all at my house (I'm in my appt atm).

but it says plus silicon too :crap:

Tiger Bass
10-10-2007, 01:36 AM
And if you don't use a fence when you use the circular saw, you are going to screw up :fyi:

IgnoreMe
10-10-2007, 01:36 AM
Ummmmmmmmmmmm

you have to smoke poisonous purple kush bdawson

IgnoreMe
10-10-2007, 01:37 AM
And if you don't use a fence when you use the circular saw, you are going to screw up :fyi:

i do use a fence...and they are mostly straight and fine, but its just a pain in the ***, and i always end up screwing up at least 1 piece

Tiger Bass
10-10-2007, 01:39 AM
This would work a lot better than that latex crap. Granted, I'm not sure if there is anything wrong with it, but I wouldn't use it.

http://www.dap.com/product_details.aspx?product_id=25

Tiger Bass
10-10-2007, 01:41 AM
i do use a fence...and they are mostly straight and fine, but its just a pain in the ***, and i always end up screwing up at least 1 piece

I know. I just saw someone else mention using a fence and then it occurred to me that not everyone else may have came from 3-4 generations of carpenters and taught how to do everything correctly.

IgnoreMe
10-10-2007, 01:43 AM
This would work a lot better than that latex crap. Granted, I'm not sure if there is anything wrong with it, but I wouldn't use it.

http://www.dap.com/product_details.aspx?product_id=25

well ****, if walmart didnt have ****ing 20 different kinds of caulking maybe i could pick something worthwhile lol.

i swear it was just a huge rack of different types. oh well, you live you learn...and you dont build perfect boxes...

bdawson72
10-10-2007, 01:45 AM
you have to smoke poisonous purple kush bdawson

Hahahah I hate you.

IgnoreMe
10-10-2007, 01:45 AM
also i have heard the "saw dust and wood glue" method at sealing gaps before...

does this still cause a good bond between the two pieces of wood?

bdawson: ;)

Tiger Bass
10-10-2007, 01:47 AM
I would stick to straight wood glue and sealant.

audioholic
10-10-2007, 02:07 AM
i tried the fence method but i find it hard to get a straight cut still because either im not cutting in a perfectly straight line, or other times i just have a hard time getting the blade to perfectly sit on my desired cut line, while trying to line up my straight end.

its basically a pain in the ***.

anyone wanna chime in on my DAP purchase?You line up the straight edge, clamp it down so it cant move, then follow it by holding the saw against it while cutting. At that point its very similar to the method used to cut wood via a fence on a table saw.

If all else fails, find someone with a table saw and buddy up to them.

skrilla22
10-10-2007, 02:21 AM
i cut my boxes with a moonbeam laser from goldeneye...they come out perfect every time

Any idea where I can purchase one of these moonbeam lasers you speak of?

:p:

vitveet
10-10-2007, 09:36 AM
I usually do maybe around 4 enclosures a week and I do 90% of the cuts myself (sometimes get Lowes to break down the large sheets of MDF for me) and honestly, if you're careful and pay attention to what's going on, the cuts will turn out perfect! That is, with a table saw, lol!
I did my first box with a skill saw (circular) and it wasn't close to perfect! I moved up to cutting the pieces with a jigsaw.....still not perfect! A long while ago I switched to the table saw and perfect, high end enclosures were summoned!!

V.

donpisto
10-10-2007, 09:47 AM
photocrazy8 built a perfect box for my 18. took 30-45 mins as well ;)

MrSwiss
10-10-2007, 10:09 AM
Even with a table saw you wont get the perfect cut. The last box I made, I had my uncle who is a carpenter for something like 30 years cut the wood on a table saw. It was **** close but you can still find flaws.

But I guess to the normal eye its about as perfect as it will get.

thats because its **** near impossible to rn each piece through using exactly the same amont of pressure against the fence.

The shop i work at has this huge ****in automated saw. it DOES make precise cuts...altho its metric, and everytime i ask the other guy to cut me some 4 inch strips.....THEY ARE NEVER 4 INCHES!

jblayz1
10-10-2007, 11:01 AM
you have to smoke poisonous purple kush bdawson

purple kush is over-rated.


thats because its **** near impossible to rn each piece through using exactly the same amont of pressure against the fence.

The shop i work at has this huge ****in automated saw. it DOES make precise cuts...altho its metric, and everytime i ask the other guy to cut me some 4 inch strips.....THEY ARE NEVER 4 INCHES!

ask for 100mm.

IgnoreMe
10-10-2007, 12:14 PM
purple kush is over-rated.



ask for 100mm.

real deal purple kush is not over rated imo. its quite the smoke. but again, to each his own. personal preferences are quite unique, and what i may find amazing, you may think is crap and vice versa.

however, it doesnt matter as i ****ed up the joke anyhow haha. i meant to post purple haze.

its an inside joke about purple haze being poisonous between bdawson and me. some kid claimed he smoked purple haze all the time and i told him his dealer will call anything with a purple tinge to it, purple haze just to get it sold (as is with almost all the purple strains, and even some that arent). then somehow it turned into me saying it was poisonous, and bdawson believed it lol. sorry bdawson, the cats out of the bag.

donpisto: 35-40 mins?! i might be able to do it in an hour if i used nothing but wood clamps, but there is NO WAY i could get even close using screws and predrilling everything, then assembling it to see if it fits, then taking it apart to glue and finally reassemble it. usually takes me a good few hours to get it done to just how i like it. i thought about buying clamps but they are like $30 each at lowes :crap:

jblayz1
10-10-2007, 12:21 PM
clamps?...pre-drilling? that's for people who use circular saws...LOL.

purple haze poisonous?...maybe if you used Miracle-Gro. just because it's purple doesn't mean it's a purple strain. i've had purple colored blueberry strains before.

IgnoreMe
10-10-2007, 12:34 PM
clamps?...pre-drilling? that's for people who use circular saws...LOL.

purple haze poisonous?...maybe if you used Miracle-Gro. just because it's purple doesn't mean it's a purple strain. i've had purple colored blueberry strains before.

pre drilling is for people who use circular saws? clamps too? unless your doing dove tail joints of something like that, i dont see how you wouldnt use clamps or screws. to snug the wood together.

i think the purple haze comment went over your head, or you didnt read it. like i said it was a joke. and like i said dealers will sell any purple strain as purple haze to make money...and then i also said "and even some that arent" meaning, that they arent naturally purple, but had purpled up for the cycle due to environmental circumstances, and will be sold as purple haze anywho.

mikey7182
10-10-2007, 02:14 PM
A buddy of mine owns a sign shop, and has this giant wireless table router. It's basically a computer-operated drill bit that spins as fast as 24krpm and you can put whatever bit in it you want. We sit in his office and lay out the exact size of every piece including the sub hole cutouts, and it is accurate down to 1/1000th of an inch without burning the wood :) Takes about 10 minutes to cut everything out and then we throw it together! We made a pretty sick Alpine logo out of 4' of plexiglass for a blowthrough I did about 6 months ago as well. I'll see if I can dig up some pics. But tablesaws are the best way to go otherwise. Skilsaws **** fat hairy balls!

photocrazy8
10-10-2007, 02:23 PM
I do everything at a pro grade wood shop. I will even meet you half way to SD if you want to pick it up. I have built for dopisto and dalucifer along with many local people in ventura and oxnard.

donpisto
10-10-2007, 03:49 PM
I do everything at a pro grade wood shop. I will even meet you half way to SD if you want to pick it up. I have built for dopisto and dalucifer along with many local people in ventura and oxnard.

Doh! You goofed up on teh username..can't say the same about the enclosure ;) Waiting for brandon to give me word on what he wants to do with carpet and we gonna get some upholstery type of carpet. It'll feel soft and smooth, not like that common stuff people usually get :D

ballstothewall
10-10-2007, 03:53 PM
I do everything at a pro grade wood shop. I will even meet you half way to SD if you want to pick it up. I have built for dopisto and dalucifer along with many local people in ventura and oxnard.

So what exactly constitutes a 'pro' grade? :)

IgnoreMe
10-10-2007, 04:05 PM
I do everything at a pro grade wood shop. I will even meet you half way to SD if you want to pick it up. I have built for dopisto and dalucifer along with many local people in ventura and oxnard.

i cant really afford a box built by someone else. most of my boxes i can get out of 1 sheet of mdf so thats roughly $25 plus wood glue and screws, and my builds arent that bad at all. my cuts are usually spot on, however i just have never built a perfect box, meaning 1 or two cuts are always off by just a smidge. i simply cant afford $1-200 boxes for myself. thanks for the offer though!

IgnoreMe
10-10-2007, 04:07 PM
^^ That must be nice

no **** eh

ngsm13
10-10-2007, 06:16 PM
I have.

It's tough, especially when you have to crank them out quickly. I usually would get them **** straight... and DA them to be perfect if I needed...

ScottieJ... now his boxes... his were PERFECT. Period.

nG

ballstothewall
10-10-2007, 06:21 PM
ScottieJ... now his boxes... his were PERFECT. Period.

nG

When your playing with the big boys, they have to be though. :)

ngsm13
10-10-2007, 06:26 PM
When your playing with the big boys, they have to be though. :)

I'm not talking about his walls or anything, even though they were ****...

I'm talking about ones he built for locals and customers...

Then again, he had an entire cabinet shop at his disposal.

Excellent craftsman.

nG

Mr Cabinetry
10-10-2007, 06:26 PM
So what exactly constitutes a 'pro' grade? :)

Not much really other than the tools used to cut and machine the parts and the people behind the machines with the knowledge to run them and the craftsman with the experience to build what is cut.

However, their are skilled craftsmen that can build just about anything given the materials their working with to what their building, but skilled craftsman doesn't wholly totally rely on machinery and computers to do ALL the work for them.

Unless were talking about complete hands off production millwork which doesn't required much thinking at all, just load of the machine, punch a button, the program runs, the parts are cut.

bumpweLL.nYc
10-10-2007, 07:04 PM
circ saw and a guide beats a $200 table saw anyday

Immacomputer
10-10-2007, 07:51 PM
circ saw and a guide beats a $200 table saw anyday

I can make about 10 cuts to every one cut with a table saw compared to using a circular saw and guide. I made quite a few enclosures with both methods and I will never go back to a circular saw and guide again. The accuracy is MUCH better and way easier to get right and the speed of the cuts is ridiculous. If I have 8 cuts to make that require a 14" rip, I can do those 8 cuts in about 5 minutes or less. It takes me 5 minutes to just get the guide measured, placed, and then checked to make sure it's perfectly square everywhere. That, is well worth the extra money spent on a table saw.

Unless of course you're talking about cheap and ghetto saws. Even though, the saw I do all my cuts on was a $250 Makita that has a max rip of about 32" and I wouldn't trade it for the best circular saw and guide on this planet.

bumpweLL.nYc
10-10-2007, 08:16 PM
yeah but once the gate on the table saw gets a little loose its basically worthless. A $1000 table saw cant be beat but most of the ones Ive gotten a chance to play with, the gate only locks in the front and the back has play, which isnt good since youre putting pressure on the gate and will most likely shift it. If they came out with a reasonably priced table with a double locking gate I would take it. But then again it takes about 30 seconds to mark and clamp a guide for a circ saw, and efficiency should only be a concern if you do it for a living. Still not a necessity though, I would pick up a router, good clamps, or a brad nailer before a table saw.

:EDIT: plus unless you expand your table theres no way to get a 2'*4' sheet on there

MemphisCherokee
10-10-2007, 08:25 PM
i cut my boxes with a moonbeam laser from goldeneye...they come out perfect every time

its a Moonraker Laser
anyways
they work hella good

bigbang
10-11-2007, 08:42 AM
I have the Home Depot cut my wood, and I get overhang, but never gaps. Simply put, rip horizontal pieces.
If I want an 18" deep box, I rip an 8' long 16 1/2" piece with the saw fixed horizontaly at 16 1/2" high, and the sheet fed through sideways. I will then end up doing at least a couple vertical cuts to get that 8' strip down to a managable size, usually knocking out the top and bottom, then I follow up by setting the saw horizontally again and cutting two identical sides and possibly an identical center divider. When I assemble the box, I know the top, bottom, two sides (and internal divider) will meet without gaps, and because they were cut from an 8' long board of uniform width, the face and back will sit flush and only require sanding to take off the overhang because I make the face about an 8th inch larger than neccesary on both sides.
All cuts come in at least pairs, so when possible, rip the pieces horizontally with the saw hieght fixed, and you will at least wind of with equal pairs. Its when the dude marks the wood and eyeballs vertical cuts for each individual cut that you have variance. Hope somebody benefits from this advice.

bjfish11
10-11-2007, 09:56 AM
yeah but once the gate on the table saw gets a little loose its basically worthless. A $1000 table saw cant be beat but most of the ones Ive gotten a chance to play with, the gate only locks in the front and the back has play, which isnt good since youre putting pressure on the gate and will most likely shift it. If they came out with a reasonably priced table with a double locking gate I would take it. But then again it takes about 30 seconds to mark and clamp a guide for a circ saw, and efficiency should only be a concern if you do it for a living. Still not a necessity though, I would pick up a router, good clamps, or a brad nailer before a table saw.

:EDIT: plus unless you expand your table theres no way to get a 2'*4' sheet on there

I have to disagree with you on this one. The table saw I bought, had a 36" rip capacity, and it ran me $550. The fence on it was really nice. It locked tight, and I never had any play with it. I have since upgraded my fence, but not because of lack of quality, just to get extra rip capacity.

I really feel, one of the most important tools in building an enclosure, is a good saw. And for accuracy and efficiency, a table saw is awesome, (if you know how to use it properly). If you plan on building quite a few enclosures, the best investment you can make, is a good table saw. You can get by with sub-par drills, and a router is not a necessity.

sqhertz
10-11-2007, 10:32 AM
im planning on getting a table saw sometime but i notice everything within my budget ( less than $250) has a 30" rip capacity. is it only the higher dollar tables that have the larger capacity?

bjfish11
10-11-2007, 10:38 AM
Yes, you almost have to upgrade your fence to something such as a Biesemeyer Fence System to get anything over 32-36".

PV Audio
10-11-2007, 10:41 AM
Impossible to make a perfect box. Very good ones come with practice though.

PV Audio
10-11-2007, 10:44 AM
Usually just wood glue does the job for me. :)

If the gaps are a little larger than usual then I'll fill it from the inside using some sort of sealant whether it's goop, gorilla glue, or something else like that.MDF dust with heavy glue wash is the best filler. Blends in, sands clean, and bonds best since it's all the same material.

PV Audio
10-11-2007, 10:47 AM
clamps?...pre-drilling? that's for people who use circular saws...LOL.

purple haze poisonous?...maybe if you used Miracle-Gro. just because it's purple doesn't mean it's a purple strain. i've had purple colored blueberry strains before.Have you ever built a box in your life? :uhoh:

PV Audio
10-11-2007, 10:48 AM
circ saw and a guide beats a $200 table saw anyday:laugh:

Megalomaniac
10-11-2007, 10:50 AM
Joseph aka ~Magic_Man~ is perfect at building boxes. :)

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q151/Megalomaniac1989/Conical%20Horn/HIN_047.jpg
http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q151/Megalomaniac1989/Conical%20Horn/P2110020.jpg

Mr Cabinetry
10-11-2007, 10:51 AM
bumpweLL.nYc,

I hate to break the news to ya, but no $ 200.00 tablesaw ain't going to do squat if the intention was to use such a saw for cutting 3/4" MDF and anyone that thinks otherwise did nothing more than pizz their money away.

Yeah, they do have rip fences that ain't worth a *****, but these types of tablesaws are " bench top " and are not meant to be used for heavy duty cutting.

So making the comparison " circ saw and a guide beats a $200 table saw any day " it just plain laughable.

Onto your rant about Tsaws with the lousy rip fences, your right and wrong on both counts because I have seen/used crappy Tsaws with good rip fences and Good Tsaws with pizz poor rip fences.

And to your comments about the type of rip fences, the best d@mn tablesaw fence ever made is what's called " T-Square Rip Fence " that was first made by Biesemeyer and is the most widely used tablesaw fence system used in the trade of cabinet making, millwork and woodworking.

A T-Square Fence system on tablesaw, he!!, any Tsaw for that matter will make the saw the most precise and accurate for cutting material then any POS fence that locks at both the front and back of the saw.

BTW, here's my Tsaw - JET 708300K / JWTS-10CW2-JF 10" Table Saw w/ a Jet 708957K Xacta Fence II JET Homeshop 52" Fence mounted on a custom fabricated rolling cabinet base I built for it so that can be set level to ensure cutting stability and accuracy.

The saw with the fence system cost me less than $ 800.00 keeping in mind that was back in 1998.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/MrCabinetry/Tablesaw/PA110292.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/MrCabinetry/Tablesaw/PA110290.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/MrCabinetry/Tablesaw/DSCF0013.jpg

PV Audio
10-11-2007, 10:53 AM
That is pure *** :omg:

Mr Cabinetry
10-11-2007, 10:54 AM
Impossible to make a perfect box. Very good ones come with practice though.

Thank You, I was going to say it sooner, but the whole topic as to the word " perfect " being the factor of the discussion, i just left it alone since " perfection " is nothing more than an individual perception.

Mr Cabinetry
10-11-2007, 10:57 AM
That is pure *** :omg:

Thanks PV, being a custom cabinetmaker does lend itself to building some nice things.

I'm in the designing stages to make another rolling base for this saw with a self contained dust collection system.

ramos
10-11-2007, 10:58 AM
Very nice , Is that a router table on the other side ? :)

Mr Cabinetry
10-11-2007, 11:01 AM
Very nice , Is that a router table on the other side ? :)

Yes, The plans that were in SHOP NOTES for the rolling base cabinet also included the plans for the extension table with the details and parts list for the router setup.

In the redesign of the rolling base cabinet I am doing, I am going to have the router setup on the other side of the saw extension table.

IgnoreMe
10-11-2007, 11:24 AM
Thank You, I was going to say it sooner, but the whole topic as to the word " perfect " being the factor of the discussion, i just left it alone since " perfection " is nothing more than an individual perception.

well by perfect i meant that all the pieces meat up perfectly with no over hanging of pieces or having pieces that are just smidge shorter without having to use a sander to get everthing to sit flush :)

didnt really know what other word to use lol

for example: i should be able to lay the top piece onto the box and not having 1/8" gaps.

also PV audio = lemans23?!?!

PV Audio
10-11-2007, 12:40 PM
Yep, how didn't you know that lol

Tiger Bass
10-11-2007, 12:58 PM
That table saw is gorgeous.


MDF dust with heavy glue wash is the best filler. Blends in, sands clean, and bonds best since it's all the same material.

Where I could see the benefits of using this to fill a hole or deep gouge, I just can't see any for using it at a joint or corner.

PV Audio
10-11-2007, 01:12 PM
That table saw is gorgeous.



Where I could see the benefits of using this to fill a hole or deep gouge, I just can't see any for using it at a joint or corner.I don't think you're talking about filler, which is what I am. If you're talking about a sealant, then yes. If you have a large panel gap, you would put the mdf paste on the outside, and silicone the inside to make it sealed.

Immacomputer
10-11-2007, 01:21 PM
I don't like using MDF paste as it always turns yellow. Does TBIII not turn yellow when it dries? I know that TBII does and that **** pisses me off.

Tiger Bass
10-11-2007, 01:33 PM
I don't think you're talking about filler, which is what I am. If you're talking about a sealant, then yes. If you have a large panel gap, you would put the mdf paste on the outside, and silicone the inside to make it sealed.

If a panel gap is so bad you need to be using filler though, the correct way to fix it would be to sand down or recut the edge. If it's too bad, then you just need to recut the panel. Either way, I would never find myself in the situation to be using this dust/glue filler aside from a small hole or gouge.

photocrazy8
10-11-2007, 01:40 PM
That is pure *** :omg:

If you think that is *** then you have not seen the one i get to use....

and my boss is soon to buy this one

http://www.martin.info/cms/_main/sawing/t60-classic.html

Mr Cabinetry
10-11-2007, 01:43 PM
well by perfect i meant that all the pieces meat up perfectly with no over hanging of pieces or having pieces that are just smidge shorter without having to use a sander to get everthing to sit flush :)

didnt really know what other word to use lol

for example: i should be able to lay the top piece onto the box and not having 1/8" gaps.

also PV audio = lemans23?!?!

I got the gist of of what you were drivin, it's all good:cool:

In this instance of what your saying and wanting to achieve as to making all your cut parts align together when you start to build the enclosure.

This can be done with a circular saw without problem, all it takes it alittle more effort as to determining the best approach to laying out the cuts you want so they all fit flush and smooth with all the other parts.

Here's how I would do it:

1. First and foremost is to find out if the factory edges of the mdf are square, if the edges are not square then all your parts will not be square when you start cutting.

2. Squaring the panel - Most folks ( I must included ) will use a framer's square to check the panel for square. However, most framer's squares are not square and don't believe otherwise. I got five framer's squares and not a d@mn one of them is Square, but, they were square when I bought them because I checked them before I bought them.

How to Check and Adjust a Framing Square
http://zo-d.com/stuff/how-do-i/how-to-check-and-adjust-a-framing-square.html

However, the best method for checking, determining and finding SQUARE is what is called the " 3,4,5 method ". If you use this method, you have a square panel everytime.

http://byteshuffler.com/rospo/blog/uploaded_images/345triangle-772529.jpg
You can create a right angle simply by employing the following procedure:

1. Measuring out two pieces of string or board other item that can be pulled straight and that measure 3 and 4 feet long.
2. These will be the two "short" legs of your right triangle, so lay them down in as close to a right angle as you can get by just eyeballing them.
3. Take a third piece of string or board or what have you, and measure it to 5 feet long.
4. Make this last piece the "long" leg of the triangle. Once you get everything arranged neatly, if your legs are 3, 4, and 5 feet long, you'll have a right angle.

This works because of the pythagorean theorem, which states that the sum of the square of the two short legs equals the square of the long leg (the hypoteneuse). In other words, (3x3) + (4x4) = (5x5).

Sure enough, 9 + 16 does equal 25.

This will work with multiples of 3, 4, and 5, so if lengths of 6, 8, and 10 feet suit your purposes better, just double everything.

The referring link to the above:
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://byteshuffler.com/rospo/blog/uploaded_images/345triangle-793260.jpg&imgrefurl=http://gardenplotter.com/rospo/blog/2006/01/making-right-angle-3-4-5-method.html&h=248&w=298&sz=6&hl=en&start=8&um=1&tbnid=w8o6Xk1b0DBn_M:&tbnh=97&tbnw=116&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2B3,4,5%2Bmethod%26svnum%3D10%26um%3 D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG

3. Straight Edge - pretty self explanatory, whatever you use for a straight make absolutely d@mn sure it's STRAIGHT.

Home Depot, Lowes sell aluminum straight edges what come in two pieces that you put together that will allow for cutting the full length of a sheet or you can use one piece for a straight edge to cross cut the width of the sheet - two straight edges for the price of one is not a bad deal at all and they come with clamps.

Don't use a 2 x 4 or any other piece of lumber because rarely you will find a piece of lumber with a good straight edge and lumber moves ( wood expands and contracts ), you may find a straight piece of lumber, but it won't stay straight indefinitely.

Now, since most of the time the cutting will be done with pieces 48" or less, the best thing would be a Circular Saw Straight Edge Jig:

http://www.woodezine.com/09_2004/09_2004_images/Benchdog1.JPG

Or, you can make your own.

4. Circular Saw - There's all types of these saw from cheap to expense and pretty much do what they do, cut thru whatever your cutting.

But, there's more to a circular saw depending on the saw and that is what will make the difference in your cuts. There' s not much to these saws, ya got the saw and the base plate and the ability to tilt the saw to cut angle edges.

The key things are that there is not movement at all where the saw points attach to the base plate, if ya got play anywhere, ya got sh!tty cuts.

Next, the blade has to be parallel to the side edges of the base plate to get nice clean straight cuts when used with a good straight edge. On some circular saw there will be a screw that will allow the user to adjust the saw to get the blade parallel the base edges.

Next, use a good square to adjust the saw so the blade is square with the base.

5. Saw Blades, most circular saws use a 8 1/2" diameter blade and for cutting mdf use a good 40 tooth carbide blade, I say 40 tooth because that is about the most per tooth blade your going to find for a circular saw that is carbide in HD,Lowes.

Mr Cabinetry
10-11-2007, 01:57 PM
If you think that is *** then you have not seen the one i get to use....

and my boss is soon to buy this one

http://www.martin.info/cms/_main/sawing/t60-classic.html

Nice.

Yeah, if i had shop with the space to put that beast in it I would rather just spend the bucks and get something like this:

Model ES52 Panel Saw

* Safety Speed Cut
* Professional Panel Saw

http://home.flash.net/~dgjco/SpecialsJFM%202006/es52revised1.jpg

and still use my tablesaw for any other cutting.

ramos
10-11-2007, 02:13 PM
Nice.

Yeah, if i had shop with the space to put that beast in it I would rather just spend the bucks and get something like this:

Model ES52 Panel Saw

* Safety Speed Cut
* Professional Panel Saw

http://home.flash.net/~dgjco/SpecialsJFM%202006/es52revised1.jpg

and still use my tablesaw for any other cutting.



I had a chance to buy that exact model from a cabinet shop in town that closed down last year for less next to nothing . I'm still kicking myself in the arse for not buying it :(

jblayz1
10-11-2007, 02:34 PM
Have you ever built a box in your life? :uhoh:

two, why?

iamamp3pimp
10-11-2007, 02:36 PM
idk if my boxes were perfect, but they were good enough for my custs and for me

:)

xplicitACTS
10-11-2007, 02:39 PM
I have, belt sander is the man.

bjfish11
10-11-2007, 02:40 PM
LOL, if you have to use a belt sander, your cuts are far from perfect ;)

IgnoreMe
10-11-2007, 03:14 PM
Yep, how didn't you know that lol

there was a time where i hadnt visited the board for like a year or so. completly lost interest in learning. then i started posting again and jumped right on the FI boner as soon as i found out it was made by Scott haha.

ngsm13
10-11-2007, 06:26 PM
Nice.

Yeah, if i had shop with the space to put that beast in it I would rather just spend the bucks and get something like this:

Model ES52 Panel Saw

* Safety Speed Cut
* Professional Panel Saw
http://home.flash.net/%7Edgjco/SpecialsJFM%202006/es52revised1.jpg

and still use my tablesaw for any other cutting.

Getting one at the shop...

Hehe.

nG

PV Audio
10-11-2007, 06:36 PM
two, why?Two? ****, you sure have experience! :uhoh:

Predrilling is useless, where do these people come from?

Tiger Bass
10-11-2007, 06:47 PM
Do you mean predrilling holes for screws?

jblayz1
10-11-2007, 07:22 PM
Two? ****, you sure have experience! :uhoh:

Predrilling is useless, where do these people come from?

why are you assuming i said i had experience, genious? maybe you've never built a car from the chasis up like i have, maybe you have. i'm not going to assume you're an expert at it either way.

..know what flavor the kool-aid is before you drink some. :p:

bjfish11
10-11-2007, 08:48 PM
why are you assuming i said i had experience, genious? maybe you've never built a car from the chasis up like i have, maybe you have. i'm not going to assume you're an expert at it either way.

..know what flavor the kool-aid is before you drink some. :p:

I think Dave is referring to your comment about not needing to predrill your holes. It must have came across him, like from your experience you dont need to.

However, predrilling is VERY important. Otherwise, you will most definitely split the material.

PV Audio
10-11-2007, 09:16 PM
why are you assuming i said i had experience, genious? maybe you've never built a car from the chasis up like i have, maybe you have. i'm not going to assume you're an expert at it either way.

..know what flavor the kool-aid is before you drink some. :p:When you say that predrilling is useless, I assume you either have loads of experience, or none at all. I assumed the latter, and was correct.

jblayz1
10-11-2007, 09:30 PM
and you obviously have no experience in reading posts and sarcasm. so i guess we're even.

mobeious
10-11-2007, 11:04 PM
i dont use a tablesaw i just fire up this bad boy

http://www.machinetoolcamp.com/images/4x8-1.JPG

PV Audio
10-12-2007, 01:43 PM
and you obviously have no experience in reading posts and sarcasm. so i guess we're even.No, I haven't endured over three years of constant ridicule and sarcasm. You've got the wrong guy, bud. :rolleyes:

Tiger Bass
10-12-2007, 01:52 PM
Gotta go with PV audio on this one :p: Though I never really had anything against him.

And I don't know who is on what side of the argument, but predrilling holes DOES make a difference :fyi:

Mr Cabinetry
10-12-2007, 03:05 PM
If the only option to building a mdf sub box is with screws, you gotta pre-drill for the screws. No way in he!! would the joints be tight....... at all if they were not pre-drilled, not to mention the mdf split and the screws wouldn't have a good bite in the material.

jblayz1
10-12-2007, 03:40 PM
No, I haven't endured over three years of constant ridicule and sarcasm. You've got the wrong guy, bud. :rolleyes:

please tell me, oh high and mighty retard, what post did i say "pre drilling is useless" ?

post #66


clamps?...pre-drilling? that's for people who use circular saws...LOL.

purple haze poisonous?...maybe if you used Miracle-Gro. just because it's purple doesn't mean it's a purple strain. i've had purple colored blueberry strains before.

where do you see it saying "pre drilling is useless? obviously you DON'T understand sarcasm.

post #114


Two? ****, you sure have experience! :uhoh:

Predrilling is useless, where do these people come from?

obviously i do have the right "retard". good job looking like an ***. so, you go around saying he said, she said. without that person even saying that and then you ridicule them. you're the kind of moron i hate meeting.

bjfish11
10-12-2007, 05:16 PM
Sorry man, I thought you were being serious as well. Sometimes its hard to sense sarcasm thought a computer monitor, especially where there actually are people out there that feel you dont need to predrill...

bumpweLL.nYc
10-12-2007, 05:49 PM
dont need to predrill if youre not using screws, absolutely necessary if you are

PV Audio
10-12-2007, 08:53 PM
please tell me, oh high and mighty retard, what post did i say "pre drilling is useless" ?

post #66



where do you see it saying "pre drilling is useless? obviously you DON'T understand sarcasm.

post #114



obviously i do have the right "retard". good job looking like an ***. so, you go around saying he said, she said. without that person even saying that and then you ridicule them. you're the kind of moron i hate meeting.:wow: You are taking this forum way too seriously.


Sorry man, I thought you were being serious as well. Sometimes its hard to sense sarcasm thought a computer monitor, especially where there actually are people out there that feel you dont need to predrill...;)

PV Audio
10-12-2007, 08:55 PM
And :laugh: that you've been here for two months and you're talking to me like that. As though I don't know what kind of questions are asked on this forum.