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Gunlex
09-21-2007, 03:42 PM
We have a nice nail gun, I was planning on using it rather than screws, is there anything that i need to be carful of? Is there any chance of spliting/cracking?

All advice appritiated, this is my first build!


Thanks,
G

DBfan187
09-21-2007, 03:45 PM
brad-nailers are awesome and time saving!

PV Audio
09-21-2007, 03:47 PM
Cheap *****s are awesome and time-saving as well :naughty:

Gunlex
09-21-2007, 04:00 PM
so it's all good then? no worries about cracking or spliting?

Goldtaz1
09-21-2007, 04:02 PM
We have a nice nail gun, I was planning on using it rather than screws, is there anything that i need to be carful of? Is there any chance of spliting/cracking?

All advice appritiated, this is my first build!


Thanks,
G

Nail guns are your friend. I've always been a huge advocate of using a brad nailer over screws. I always laugh when I see how long it takes people on this forum to build a box from start to finish using screws and whatnot. Trust me when I say you have nothing to worry about with the nail gun other than simply running out of nails. LOL!

BTW, my nail gun and compressor combo cost a grand total of $150 bucks so for anyone that was going to chime in with the "some of us can't afford" statement, I call B.S.

Gunlex
09-21-2007, 04:09 PM
my dad used to build houses, and his shop is as big as our house; so his stuff is as good as it gets :D

mlstrass
09-21-2007, 04:43 PM
I have one and have used it for a few builds, but still like the screw method for most builds.

As long as you shoot them straight you'll be fine....

Mr Cabinetry
09-21-2007, 05:14 PM
Ever since I started building enclosure's, Brad Air nailers is all I ever used.

I will use screws to assemble certain parts of enclosure to keep the joint tight ( mitered parts ).

Best Advise - Use an 18 Gauge Brad Nailer, 16 Gauge brads tend to cause the mdf to split more easily.

Put your spacing at 4" between nails.

If the MDF has a slight bow to it, keep the bow outwards, easier to push in to line up with the edge of the other board your nailing to.

Phil
Woodlawn Cabinetry

swangin68
09-21-2007, 07:27 PM
i use 18 gage 1 3/8 long, also go to long they will bend and come out the side to easy and gotta be straight or they will come out the side...but they are fast and strong as well

ngsm13
09-21-2007, 07:36 PM
I use an air stapler.

18guage... 1 3/8"

nG

Paul73
09-22-2007, 02:12 AM
I use an air stapler.

18guage... 1 3/8"

nG

Me too....1/4" crown 1 3/8" leg glue coated staples. Works fabulous and is strong as **** too. I found that brads don't have the same holding power and are much easier to bend and shoot through the side of the adjoining panel.

ngsm13
09-22-2007, 05:08 AM
Me too....1/4" crown 1 3/8" leg glue coated staples. Works fabulous and is strong as **** too. I found that brads don't have the same holding power and are much easier to bend and shoot through the side of the adjoining panel.

Truth.

nG

xtremebassjunky
09-22-2007, 05:50 AM
wouldn't you want to keep the extra strength that the screws would give you?

quakerroatmeal
09-22-2007, 06:45 AM
As long as you glue the crap out of it, shouldn't need any extra strength.

Mr Cabinetry
09-22-2007, 11:31 AM
Originally Posted by Paul73 View Post
I found that brads don't have the same holding power and are much easier to bend and shoot through the side of the adjoining panel.

I've never had much of an issue with this occurring, I guess that is because I don;t use the air nailer past the operational PSI requirement needed to drive the nails.

I don't like using staples in mdf because there is more of a tendency for splitting due to the tines of the staple being so close together.

However, regardless of that being said, the function of either type fasteners is to hold the parts together till the glue dries since it's the strength of the glue bond does all the work.

Goldtaz1
09-22-2007, 01:27 PM
I've never had much of an issue with this occurring, I guess that is because I don;t use the air nailer past the operational PSI requirement needed to drive the nails.

I don't like using staples in mdf because there is more of a tendency for splitting due to the tines of the staple being so close together.

However, regardless of that being said, the function of either type fasteners is to hold the parts together till the glue dries since it's the strength of the glue bond does all the work.

x2.

Very well said. BTW, I use 18 gauge 1 1/2" brad nails.

bjfish11
09-22-2007, 03:48 PM
I guess Ill be that other guy....

Personally, I dont like using nails. I just feel that a screw makes a better/tighter joint while the glue dries. Sure it takes me a little bit longer to use screws than it would be to use a nail gun, but im pretty quick with a drill as well.

That is just my personal opinion...

However, I do use a brad nailer with 1 1/4" brads to attach my double baffles, and 45's.


**Edit, but no, you should have no worries splitting the wood... to answer the question...

twistedfreak
09-22-2007, 04:02 PM
i use a brad nailer for 90% of my box work and have for 10+ years and i have only had 1 box come apart on me.

but it was 4 orion xtr3 dvc 12's powered by pair hcca250r's.........if that tells you how well it works nailing a box together.that is alot of internal air pressure

i also didnt have any liquid nails that day so i used elmers wood glue:suicide::laugh:

usind brad nailers can shave a ton of time off a box build when you have 3 or 4 boxes to build and install in 1 day.

Mr Cabinetry
09-22-2007, 04:23 PM
i use a brad nailer for 90% of my box work and have for 10+ years and i have only had 1 box come apart on me.

but it was 4 orion xtr3 dvc 12's powered by pair hcca250r's.........if that tells you how well it works nailing a box together.that is alot of internal air pressure

i also didnt have any liquid nails that day so i used elmers wood glue:suicide::laugh:

usind brad nailers can shave a ton of time off a box build when you have 3 or 4 boxes to build and install in 1 day.

So, you basically saying that because you used Elmers Wood glue for that box, the box didn't hold up structurally??

IamDeMan
09-22-2007, 04:40 PM
brad-nailers are awesome and time saving!I concur.

IamDeMan
09-22-2007, 04:44 PM
wouldn't you want to keep the extra strength that the screws would give you?

Screws give no strength after time of pressure pounding. The aid in construction should only be used as a means to apply pressure until glue has dried. On another note gorilla glue or anything similar is terrible to use with nailing as the expansion can pull nails out. The glue is your lasting strength, not nails or screws.

IamDeMan
09-22-2007, 04:45 PM
I've never had much of an issue with this occurring, I guess that is because I don;t use the air nailer past the operational PSI requirement needed to drive the nails.

I don't like using staples in mdf because there is more of a tendency for splitting due to the tines of the staple being so close together.

However, regardless of that being said, the function of either type fasteners is to hold the parts together till the glue dries since it's the strength of the glue bond does all the work.
w3rd!

icweiner
09-22-2007, 05:21 PM
i have used elmers carpentry glue on my past 3 boxes and it worked flawlees. liquid nails tho ***** ***. ask stratus

ngsm13
09-22-2007, 06:03 PM
Liquid nails is HORRIBLE.

nG

twistedfreak
09-26-2007, 01:31 AM
So, you basically saying that because you used Elmers Wood glue for that box, the box didn't hold up structurally??

i dont know for sure but it was the 1 and only time i used it to do a box build so i will assume it had some part in the problem :confused: all edges were nice and straight no gaps anywhere in the joints and i usually a little overzealous with the nails too :) and also had plenty of internal bracing.

Mr Cabinetry
09-26-2007, 10:06 AM
i dont know for sure but it was the 1 and only time i used it to do a box build so i will assume it had some part in the problem :confused: all edges were nice and straight no gaps anywhere in the joints and i usually a little overzealous with the nails too :) and also had plenty of internal bracing.

Well, if the Elmers you used was the " white " glue, yeah, that would of been the source of the failure since that type of glue is more for " general purpose " arts and crafts stuff.

I've been using Elmers Pro Bond Woodworkers Glue for quite some time and haven't had any problems and when it completely dries, a box ain't coming apart unless it's beaten apart.

DejaWiz
09-26-2007, 10:12 AM
I love using nailguns. Saved my *** in Quake numerous times. :fyi:

twistedfreak
09-26-2007, 11:01 AM
Well, if the Elmers you used was the " white " glue, yeah, that would of been the source of the failure since that type of glue is more for " general purpose " arts and crafts stuff.

I've been using Elmers Pro Bond Woodworkers Glue for quite some time and haven't had any problems and when it completely dries, a box ain't coming apart unless it's beaten apart.



yea it was just plain elmers carpenters glue....has a light light tan color to it.

it wasnt regular elmers glue but it also wasnt probond.......

Goldtaz1
09-26-2007, 11:11 AM
Sure it takes me a little bit longer to use screws than it would be to use a nail gun, but im pretty quick with a drill as well.


You must have above human average pre-drilling/screwing skills :graduate:. I can't possibly fathom that it would take only a little longer considering there is no need to pre-drill anything when using a brad nailer. Anywho, you build awesome boxes so if that works for you then you definitely get the props.

bjfish11
09-26-2007, 11:20 PM
You must have above human average pre-drilling/screwing skills :graduate:. I can't possibly fathom that it would take only a little longer considering there is no need to pre-drill anything when using a brad nailer. Anywho, you build awesome boxes so if that works for you then you definitely get the props.

It's all relative man. Of course it takes me longer, but it doesnt take as long to use screws as some people make it out to be. It only takes me about 30 mins to completely assemble a box with screws... so I might be able to save myself 10 mins or so...

twistedfreak
09-27-2007, 09:40 AM
Anywho, you build awesome boxes so if that works for you then you definitely get the props.



i have to agree bjfish.....i just checked out your web page and i have to say that is some fine work you do there :thumbupw:

and i see you are a fellow kansan :D

sqhertz
09-27-2007, 10:11 AM
i was thinking bout picking up an electric brad nailer from work next time im putting together boxes. would i still need to clamp the pieces or would the nail be enough? ive never used any type of fasteners on my boxes so if id still have to clamp , i dont really see a point...

DBfan187
09-27-2007, 10:13 AM
I'll sell you mine for $50shipped. nails included.

sqhertz
09-27-2007, 10:21 AM
brand , model #?
would i still have to clamp?

Shyne151
09-27-2007, 10:35 AM
At the shop we have Bostitch air staplers... they are definitely very nice and make building boxes a very quick process. Only problem I ever had was I bounced it off a corner once and put a 1.5" staple in my finger about 3/4" of an inch.

bjfish11
09-27-2007, 10:47 AM
i have to agree bjfish.....i just checked out your web page and i have to say that is some fine work you do there :thumbupw:

and i see you are a fellow kansan :D

Thanks man, appreciate it.

What part on Wichita you from? GP is just about 10 mins west of the west side.

sqhertz
09-27-2007, 10:57 AM
well now that i see we have box builders in this thread lemme ask a quick question.

what can i use to get old , dried up glue off my bar clamps? gas? wd-40?

twistedfreak
09-27-2007, 11:01 AM
Thanks man, appreciate it.

What part on Wichita you from? GP is just about 10 mins west of the west side.

i work at mel hambelton and live south.

Mr Cabinetry
09-27-2007, 12:46 PM
well now that i see we have box builders in this thread lemme ask a quick question.

what can i use to get old , dried up glue off my bar clamps? gas? wd-40?

What type of glue, spray glue or woodglue?

Mr Cabinetry
09-27-2007, 12:50 PM
i was thinking bout picking up an electric brad nailer from work next time im putting together boxes. would i still need to clamp the pieces or would the nail be enough? ive never used any type of fasteners on my boxes so if id still have to clamp , i dont really see a point...

An electric nailer is not going to have the power required to drive the nail in/thru MDF.

Only thing an electric nailer is good for is driving nails into softwoods and working around arts and crafts type projects.

Anybody tells you otherwise is blowin smoke up ur azz.

ramos
09-27-2007, 01:13 PM
We have a nice nail gun, I was planning on using it rather than screws, is there anything that i need to be carful of? Is there any chance of spliting/cracking?

All advice appritiated, this is my first build!


Thanks,
G


I just read through this entire thread and never saw this asked . Are you talking about a brad nailer or a nail gun ? Two different beasts all together . A brad nailer is wonderful. I use 18 gauge brads, I imagine a nail gun would cause splitting out the ying yang considering the size of the nails. :)

sqhertz
09-27-2007, 01:14 PM
wood glue.
i would imagine whatever the solution , itll work for most of the glues id be using.

well i could wait till compressors go on clearance at work. sears ftw. i dont mind using only bar clamps, but if i dont have to i wont.

DBfan187
09-27-2007, 01:20 PM
brand , model #?
would i still have to clamp?
ARROW something. I only used it 2x. 1 1/4 brads. Cost $84 new.

Yeah, I clamp them still to allow the glue to dry.

Mr Cabinetry
09-27-2007, 01:27 PM
If the wood glue is on the bar the clamp slides on, just take a putty knife and scrape it off.

If it's on any other part of the bar clamp, just chip away at it or just leave it be.

As long as the dried glue is not interfering with the usage for clamping purposes, just leave it.

I have bar clamps older than me and are caked with wood glue, I just keep the parts that need to be kept glue free to work.

DBfan187
09-27-2007, 01:28 PM
I made the mistake of spraying a clamp's bar with WD40. WORST thing I've ever did construction wise. :( lol

Mr Cabinetry
09-27-2007, 01:32 PM
I made the mistake of spraying a clamp's bar with WD40. WORST thing I've ever did construction wise. :( lol

Trick I learned from another cabinetmaker.

Keep a can of Johnson Paste wax around and every so often just wipe a coat on the slide bar, keeps the bar rust free and the dried wood glue will flake right off.

sqhertz
09-27-2007, 01:34 PM
If the wood glue is on the bar the clamp slides on, just take a putty knife and scrape it off.

If it's on any other part of the bar clamp, just chip away at it or just leave it be.

As long as the dried glue is not interfering with the usage for clamping purposes, just leave it.

I have bar clamps older than me and are caked with wood glue, I just keep the parts that need to be kept glue free to work.


ive tried to scrape it off and its stuck in between the notches where it slides on the bar and on the threading for the handle. dunno how it got everywhere like that though. makes it a real pita when i cant get it all the way down and gets stuck. :(
thanks for the heads up on wd-40, i was really thinking about using some. lol. maybe acetone? what about goof off , or whatever its called..

DBfan187
09-27-2007, 01:34 PM
gojo

Mr Cabinetry
09-27-2007, 03:07 PM
Hate to break the news to ya, but once wood glue is dry, not type of cleaner is going to remove it and if their was one, I would of told ya about it.

Best thing to do is when your glue ***** up is to have damp rag handy for wiping it up and cleaning if off stuff before it dries.

hoxie08
09-27-2007, 03:11 PM
I have one and have used it for a few builds, but still like the screw method for most builds.

As long as you shoot them straight you'll be fine....

Thats my problem, I can never shoot them straight..

ramos
09-27-2007, 03:45 PM
Hate to break the news to ya, but once wood glue is dry, not type of cleaner is going to remove it and if their was one, I would of told ya about it.

Best thing to do is when your glue ***** up is to have damp rag handy for wiping it up and cleaning if off stuff before it dries.


yep wiping up wet glue is a lot easier than sanding away the extra. Once the rag dries all crusty . Stick it in your worst enemies car or bag or something for someone else to find :naughty: It resembles something else ..........:)

sqhertz
09-27-2007, 04:25 PM
Hate to break the news to ya, but once wood glue is dry, not type of cleaner is going to remove it and if their was one, I would of told ya about it.

Best thing to do is when your glue ***** up is to have damp rag handy for wiping it up and cleaning if off stuff before it dries.


******.
i guess i can go ahead and try some solvents and see what happens since its not going to get any better. thanks any ways though.
:)