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View Full Version : Better deck for SQ than an Alpine CDA 7998?



Latina33
09-07-2007, 12:28 PM
I own this deck, and I really like all of the EQ and adjustment features, and it's touted to be a SQ competition deck. I'm also a big fan of it's built in 3-way active capability.

I wanted to get some opinions on this deck, and also if there's any other decks that can be had in the $200-$300 price range that would provide better SQ and still allow me to run a 3-way active setup?

frzninvt
09-07-2007, 12:42 PM
Certainly not in that price range, that price range will barely buy you a used 7998.

There are only a handful of decks that are even equal to or would surpass the SQ of the 7998 unless you modified the output stage with better capacitors.

Running an outboard DAC may improve things some but it is going to cost alot more than $200 - $300.

If you want more SQ run higher quality amplifiers and speakers that will take full advantage of the 7998's SQ capabilities.

Latina33
09-07-2007, 01:13 PM
Certainly not in that price range, that price range will barely buy you a used 7998.

There are only a handful of decks that are even equal to or would surpass the SQ of the 7998 unless you modified the output stage with better capacitors.

Running an outboard DAC may improve things some but it is going to cost alot more than $200 - $300.

If you wan more SQ run higher quality amplifiers and speakers that will take full advantage of the 7998's SQ capabilities.

Thanks for the input. I understand your points, I'm just not sure what kind of amp I could move to to achieve better SQ results....or even if I did move to another amp, if it would even be that much of a notable difference in SQ.

I'm currently running a set of Rainbow Profi Vanadium phase plug 2-ways with this amp active:

http://ampguts.realmofexcursion.com/Alpine_MRD-F752/

The Profi phase plugs are supposed to be some of the best comps for SQ around. I just want to explore options that might maximize their capabilities better.

frzninvt
09-07-2007, 01:57 PM
You have a single amplifier that shares a single power supply and runs Class 'T" which is a form of digital amplification and certainly not the epitome' of sound quality. Digital amplification while very efficient is great for subwoofers where S/N Ratio and Channel Separation are not that big a factor, but will be lacking in finite detail and accuracy when your front sound stage is concerned. When you drive your subwoofer hard the power supply is probably struggling to keep the front and rear outputs at rated power.

"Class T" is a trademark of TriPath company, which manufactures audio amplifier IC's. This new class "T" is a revision of the common class D amplifier, but with changes to ensure fidelity over the full audio spectrum, unlike traditional class D designs. It operates at a frequency of 650 kHz, with a proprietary modulator."


However, in most instances Class A, A/B amplication will always sound better than digital when running your front/rear components or speakers to my ears anyway.

I was running old school Orion XTR 100/200 Dual Mono blocks with balanced inputs up until my recent changeover to the Series VIII HiFonics Platinum High Current amplifiers. I could certainly tell the difference between the amps with the edge going to the Orion's but the HiFonics seem to have better highs above the 10Khz range but lack the punch and extreme dynamics of the Orion's and their unregulated power supplies.

Latina33
09-07-2007, 02:38 PM
So an A or an A/B class amplifier dedicated to the mids and tweets only would most likely help to maximize SQ in my current setup.

I had a Soundstream Reference 644s 4 channel that I sold a few months ago. Maybe I should've considered possibly running my front speakers active with that amp, and then picking up a decent monoblock amp to run my 12" sub?

SRim23
09-07-2007, 02:42 PM
you can buy my 9855!!! ha ha it does have the 3 way capabilities and i think cosmetically looks better. im not really a fan of the oversized fantom face. you can also change the buttons on mine like 500 different colors! i love rockin hot pink sometimes ha ha

Latina33
09-07-2007, 02:50 PM
you can buy my 9855!!! ha ha it does have the 3 way capabilities and i think cosmetically looks better. im not really a fan of the oversized fantom face. you can also change the buttons on mine like 500 different colors! i love rockin hot pink sometimes ha ha

LOL Thanks man, but I think I'll pass on the newer 'glitz 'n glam' 9855. :)

I don't really care about the cosmetics part. I'd rather have better quality internal components.

Latina33
09-07-2007, 03:07 PM
Would something like this AudioControl 4.1 be a worthwile investment?

T3mpest
09-07-2007, 04:31 PM
If you like your hu, perhaps you can use your amps for your active processing. Kickers SX series has a fairly beefy dsp, more than enough options for most active setups.

innsanes
09-07-2007, 08:18 PM
own the same HU and love it. Looks and Sq are top notch. If you want something better look into mcintosh or the alpine 7998R, copper chasis and optical output.

CrossFired
09-07-2007, 09:33 PM
It's that amp thats killing you! I've heard the Alpine classT and they are Fugly sounding at best.

That SS you sold would have been much better! I like Crossfire but there's plenty of good sounding amp out there.

I've got a CF VR404 50x4 that I use in my car and it sounds real nice.:)


http://ampguts.realmofexcursion.com/Crossfire_VR404/inside1.jpg

squeak9798
09-07-2007, 10:40 PM
If you want more SQ run higher quality amplifiers......that will take full advantage of the 7998's SQ capabilities.

:laugh:


Digital amplification while very efficient is great for subwoofers where S/N Ratio and Channel Separation are not that big a factor, but will be lacking in finite detail and accuracy when your front sound stage is concerned.

False.

And "D" doesn't stand for "digital".


However, in most instances Class A, A/B amplication will always sound better than digital when running your front/rear components or speakers

False.


I could certainly tell the difference between the amps with the edge going to the Orion's but the HiFonics seem to have better highs above the 10Khz range but lack the punch and extreme dynamics of the Orion's and their unregulated power supplies.

Won't even go there.



So an A or an A/B class amplifier dedicated to the mids and tweets only would most likely help to maximize SQ in my current setup.

No.

Don't look to an amplifier solely to give a change in sound quality......it ain't going to happen. The one exception to this is as noted below.....amps with built in DSP.



If you like your hu, perhaps you can use your amps for your active processing. Kickers SX series has a fairly beefy dsp, more than enough options for most active setups.

Agreed. And reasonably priced aswell.

I think the "main" thing they are missing is time alignment, however.



What is it exactly you were trying to improve upon ? There are many relatively simple and less expensive (potentially) alterations you can make to your install that would have very large impacts on sound quality aswell.

Latina33
09-08-2007, 01:07 AM
I that amp thats killing you! I've heard the Alpine classT and they are Fugly sounding at best.

That SS you sold would have been much better! I like Crossfire but there's plenty of good sounding amp out there.

I've got a CF VR404 50x4 that I use in my car and it sounds real nice.:)


http://ampguts.realmofexcursion.com/Crossfire_VR404/inside1.jpg

Really? What made you not like the sound of the Alpine Class T? I mean, I'm sure there's better amps for SQ, but mine is running my comps now, and it sounds ok.

I'm just curious to know what your experience with that amp is based on, so I can be a little better informed in my decision.

Worlddre
09-08-2007, 01:12 AM
pay more attention to what squeak said then what anyoe else in this thread has said

depeding on what exactly you are trying to improve on there are many things that can be done to the install itself to acheive your goals

how they installed and what is lacking to you?

Latina33
09-08-2007, 01:12 AM
:laugh:



False.

And "D" doesn't stand for "digital".



False.



Won't even go there.



No.

Don't look to an amplifier solely to give a change in sound quality......it ain't going to happen. The one exception to this is as noted below.....amps with built in DSP.



Agreed. And reasonably priced aswell.

I think the "main" thing they are missing is time alignment, however.



What is it exactly you were trying to improve upon ? There are many relatively simple and less expensive (potentially) alterations you can make to your install that would have very large impacts on sound quality aswell.

Thanks for breaking those quotes down for me, squeak.

I'm honestly just trying to keep my options open to provide my Rainbows with the best possible sound reproduction that I can give them (within a reasonable price range for me, of course).

If there is a better amp that will provide that resource for my comps than what I'm running with them now, then I'd like some examples, so that I can look into them as possible options.

The 7998 has a very nice time alignment feature.....but honestly, with the way the Vanadium phase plugs are installed, I don't even need to adjust it at all. They totally fill up the car with full sound, and I have no rear fill, just a 12" sub in my hatchback area.

Latina33
09-08-2007, 01:14 AM
pay more attention to what squeak said then what anyoe else in this thread has said

depeding on what exactly you are trying to improve on there are many things that can be done to the install itself to acheive your goals

how they installed and what is lacking to you?

I guess if I had to say something that was lacking in my opinion, it would probably be the overall clarity and sharpness of my Profi comp set.

My HU was built to compete in SQ competitions, however, the amp was not specifically made for that purpose, which is why I'm kind of leaning towards questioning it's SQ 'capabilities'.

whitemax
09-08-2007, 02:42 AM
The 7998 has a very nice time alignment feature.....but honestly, with the way the Vanadium phase plugs are installed, I don't even need to adjust it at all. They totally fill up the car with full sound, and I have no rear fill, just a 12" sub in my hatchback area.


Where are your speakers installed?

99StangGt
09-08-2007, 12:07 PM
I have found with my setup that I use 2 or 3 times the power for my mids then my tweeters. I have used a lot of different brands of amps and cant tell the difference in the sq. I have ran active with an Alpine 4 channel at 40w a channel and it sounds the same at low volumes but when I put 150w amp on the mids it made a huge difference at higher volumes. the mids have so much more impact. I also agree with Squeak that amps sound the same. i wished I would have listened a long time ago it would have same me a ton of money.

CrossFired
09-08-2007, 02:18 PM
Really? What made you not like the sound of the Alpine Class T? I mean, I'm sure there's better amps for SQ, but mine is running my comps now, and it sounds ok.

I'm just curious to know what your experience with that amp is based on, so I can be a little better informed in my decision.

I've sold and installed 1000's of car audio since 1981 and its been a on going hobbie for me. When the Alpine T (class D)amps came to market, I tried that same amp in my ride for just under two months. I found the bass to be lose, midrange hard and highs were bright.

But I also found my 7990 HU hard sounding(used for 6 months).

I know this, everyone that rides in my car likes my system. I've tried many HU's over the years and I always find myself coming back to Pioneer. Pioneer just sounds better.

As far as amps go, there's lots of good one's out there. The last 6 years or so, I've been real happy with Crossfire because there easy on your funds and they sound good and hold up real well. from the early 80's thru the mid 90's I was al about LinearPower. from the mid 90's til the early 2000;s it was SoundStream and after that came CrossFire. I've for the most part stuck with Boston for drivers.

Good luck.

dbhittin
09-08-2007, 02:25 PM
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/388000-388999/388369_91_full.jpg

what i used to have, and that sounded nice.. i forgot what model it was though