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View Full Version : which 6.5 comps for this amp?



rmdl51
08-28-2007, 02:10 PM
Hello! I have this 4-ch amp:
http://item.express.ebay.com/Vehicle-Parts-Accessories_Car-Electronics_Car-Amplifiers_AUDIOFONICS-ADF-242-1100W-4-CHANNEL-AMPLIFIER-AMP-NEW_W0QQitemZ9720789603QQihZ008QQptdnZCarQ20Amplif iersQQddnZVehicleQ20PartsQ20Q26Q20AccessoriesQQadn ZCarQ20ElectronicsQQptdiZ330QQddiZ1168QQadiZ967QQc mdZExpressItem

I have 4 coaxials 2 - 6x9 5-way pionner and some cheap ones on the front doors which are the ones I want to upgrade with some good components, budget is around $150 and I was reading good stuff about CDT-CL's but I'm not sure if this amp will be able to give enough juice to those comps, since I don't have much knowledge about wattage/gains/ohms what do you recommend? should I get a better amp? or this one will do it? some people also recommend phoenix, eclipse and some others, please help!

Gary S
08-28-2007, 03:04 PM
Hello! I have this 4-ch amp:
http://item.express.ebay.com/Vehicle-Parts-Accessories_Car-Electronics_Car-Amplifiers_AUDIOFONICS-ADF-242-1100W-4-CHANNEL-AMPLIFIER-AMP-NEW_W0QQitemZ9720789603QQihZ008QQptdnZCarQ20Amplif iersQQddnZVehicleQ20PartsQ20Q26Q20AccessoriesQQadn ZCarQ20ElectronicsQQptdiZ330QQddiZ1168QQadiZ967QQc mdZExpressItem

I have 4 coaxials 2 - 6x9 5-way pionner and some cheap ones on the front doors which are the ones I want to upgrade with some good components, budget is around $150 and I was reading good stuff about CDT-CL's but I'm not sure if this amp will be able to give enough juice to those comps, since I don't have much knowledge about wattage/gains/ohms what do you recommend? should I get a better amp? or this one will do it? some people also recommend phoenix, eclipse and some others, please help!


- Looks like it's capable of 200 watts X 2 into 2 ohms. Probably around 120 X 2 into 4 - ohms.


Cdt high end stuff is decent but overpriced in my opinion. The set you mention is low-end. I would suggest c4 audio or Orion HCCA 6.2 on ebay.

rmdl51
08-28-2007, 04:35 PM
You mean something like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/6-5-ORION-HCCA-6-2-Component-Speaker-System-37207-NEW_W0QQitemZ220139987718QQihZ012QQcategoryZ32819Q QrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
can I power them up with the mentioned amp without problems? I don't see watts spec.
what do you think of the amp, will do the job or I should start looking for something better for comps?
I don't want/need to get the best audio system, just want to stay away from crappy stuff and get a good decent sound quality set of amp-comps. Thank you!

Gary S
08-28-2007, 05:15 PM
Those are the components.

The amp is a 4-channel, pardon me... how are you hooking it up... what is the rest of your system? Are you using the rear channels for subs? I'm not sure about the amp brand... sounds like flea market brand... not sure how reliable it would be. Tell me more about your system. Do you already own the amp, or are you just looking at it?

BASSMEKANIK
08-28-2007, 05:22 PM
hmmm...

BASSMEKANIK
08-28-2007, 05:22 PM
if you have that amp, throw it away or sell it to some idiot that dont know anything about car audio... if you dont have it, do yourself a favor and dont get it...

that brand is in the pyle, legacy, performance technique, american pro, volfenhag line...


just a fyi :)

Gary S
08-28-2007, 05:24 PM
Okay, I just read your post again... you have the amp and four speakers... my information on the power could be wrong... can you look at the amp and tell me what the fuse rating is and how many?

- I just looked up the brand... same parent company as american pro, dhd, koiiler, performance teknique, phoenix digital, mtv video, volfenhag, rockwood, cuspid, x-plore. I think American Hi Fi is the parent company. Yes.. flea market stuff.

rmdl51
08-28-2007, 06:39 PM
Ok guys thank you very much! that's what I need to know! I'll throw away both amps I guess, the one powering up my subs is a performance teknique, I know it's crappy too.

My whole installation was made by a cheap idiot that took advantage of my ignorance a couple of years ago, so I research a little bit and start taking advice from a more experienced people (like all of you guys from this forum) and try to replace/upgrade my sound system which you can easily figure it out that it's awful.

Well on my own I bought two 10" Kicker CVR on a sealed box but they are still powered by the PT amp, I think I'm gonna need advice to buy an amp for the subs either, I still don't have much knowledge if it's better a mono or a 2 ch bridged but that's another subject.

The Audiofonics 4-ch have two 6x9 5-way Pionner which I just bought to replace crappy performance teknique coaxials, in the front doors I have 6.5" PT coaxials.

Now the questions:
can you suggest a good 4-ch amp not too expensive to keep using my 6x9 pionners and add some good 6.5" components?
or do you think it's better to have 2x 2ch amp separated for front and rear speakers? or maybe leave rear speakers without amp?

Gary S
08-28-2007, 08:21 PM
I'd ditch the rear speakers... that's only for factory speakers.

Even though the amps are flea market variety, I'd still like to know the fuse ratings... if they have no noise, and have enough power, why not use them? Just don't buy that brand again.

Speakers, installation, system design, and system tunning are most important.. as long as you have plenty of power, amps and head units don't make nearly as big a difference.

Like I said, I'd throw away the rear speakers, bridge the audiofonics to a great set of comps up front... that will give you more power on the component set up front, where it should be. And run the woofers the way you suggested, if the amps have a good amount of juice.

The only other thing... sometimes higher order x-overs help with keeping the bass up front illusion... might be worth it to buy another sub amp just for the crossover in it, and up the sub power also in one shot.

Spend your money on a great component set before you start chucking amps though.

tbasile1
08-28-2007, 08:49 PM
Spend your money on a great component set before you start chucking amps though.

Agreed, for the time being, the amp should be fine

As for the rears, if you wana keep them just run them off the HU

So whats your budget for a comp set??

rmdl51
08-29-2007, 03:44 AM
I'm around $150 but I don't know could be 160 or if you suggest to save a little more and get something better for 180 I'll follow your advice. But I would like to keep it under 180 in case I have to spend money in some extras like cable or I don't know.

Gary, I'll let you know the fuse rating tomorrow, and one more thing, to be honest right know the rear speakers are the only ones that sound pretty decent, actually they sound clearer and louder than my 6.5 on the doors, I know things will change after installing the comps, but I don't really want to get rid of them because I just bought them, I think I'll follow Tbayz1 advice and run them off from HU if that doesn't cause any conflict with my amps, by the way my HU is a Pionner DEH-7700MP

oh besides suggestions for components if any of you can refer a link with diagrams about how to bridge amps I will really appreciate it.

Gary S
08-29-2007, 07:12 AM
- The 6X9's are louder because they are more efficient. If you bridge the amp to front components, they will be louder yet.

If you can save a little more, I'd go with Cerwin Vega V-Max 65, or Precision Power 356cs


How do you bridge an amp?
http://www.lalena.com/Audio/FAQ/Wiring/

tbasile1
08-29-2007, 10:06 AM
For under $150 you cant go wrong with the Phoenix Gold RSd components, they can be found actually for like $90 on ebay

DejaWiz
08-29-2007, 10:26 AM
Comps: RSd65cs (http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=17540) $129 shipped (authorized, or check eBay)

Comp Amp: KX450.2 (http://www.hifisoundconnection.com/Shop/Control/Product/fp/vpid/2599048/vpcsid/0/SFV/30046/order/asc/order_by/title) $130 + shipping (authorized refurb seller, or check the FS subforum)

Sub Amp: Need to know what final ohm load the amp sees from the dual CVR's first.

rmdl51
08-29-2007, 04:13 PM
I just checked the Audiofonics and it has two 25A fuses, so? is that good or bad? can I give it a shot or I should buy a new amp?



Sub Amp: Need to know what final ohm load the amp sees from the dual CVR's first.

How do I figure that out?

kross
08-29-2007, 04:28 PM
Are the CVR's dual 2-ohm or dual 4-ohm subs?

Gary S
08-29-2007, 05:00 PM
[QUOTE=rmdl51;3349936]I just checked the Audiofonics and it has two 25A fuses, so? is that good or bad? can I give it a shot or I should buy a new amp?


- Might do in the neighborhood of 250 X 2 bridged. Sounds like it would be plenty.



- What ohm are the voice coils on the subs... dual 2-ohm or dual 4-ohm?

rmdl51
08-29-2007, 06:28 PM
CVR's are Dual 4ohm amped by this one:

http://www.millionbuy.com/pericbm892.html

I have the coils in parallel (+ to + and - to - ) that's the way it should be right? or if I'm wrong please let me know.

DejaWiz
08-29-2007, 07:01 PM
CVR's are Dual 4ohm amped by this one:

http://www.millionbuy.com/pericbm892.html

I have the coils in parallel (+ to + and - to - ) that's the way it should be right? or if I'm wrong please let me know.

So each sub wired in parallel (2 Ohms final each), and then each sub being powered by it's own amp channel, correct?

rmdl51
08-29-2007, 07:10 PM
Correct!

DejaWiz
08-29-2007, 08:06 PM
Try to find a Class D mono amp that is 1 ohm stable at around 600-800w rms for those subs. (each wired in parallel = 2 ohms each, then both wired in parallel = 1 ohm at the amp)

Something like a Hifonics BXi606D or similar.

rmdl51
08-30-2007, 02:38 AM
I'm on a tight budget right now to purchase that amp ( I saw it online over $200) but I'll surely consider it later when I upgrade everything (Imean both amps), first thing right now is the comps speakers.

I'm uncertain if I should buy the Phoenix Gold (just saw them on ebay for $90 shipped) and a new amp or buy any of the two options Gary suggest and keep using my old crappy amp. As long as they perform great I don't mind keeping that Audiofonics, but my common sense keep telling me that I won't get the best out of any components as long as I keep using that amp but I might be wrong.

I trust all of you and I want to give it a try. I'll bridge the amp, buy and install some comps and I'll post later to let you know how did it go. Thank you all for your time and advice!

DejaWiz
08-30-2007, 09:46 AM
Seems that that's the best route for you to go right now. Bridge your amp, install new comps, and see how it goes. It'll at least get you by for some time.

rmdl51
08-30-2007, 12:02 PM
One more question off the subject, I was reading the link on your sig about the setting amp gains, but I have no experience or tools to set the gains the way the explain it to do, I don't even know how my gains are set right now, but I'm concern to cause damage on the new comps when I install them.
Is there a safe setting I should consider before attemp anything with the amp/speakers?
or if it was working before I should leave the gain knob alone?

Gary S
08-30-2007, 12:28 PM
Don't worry too much about the gain setting, it's not very important... main thing is to not have them too high so that you have noise.

You are still in control of the volume knob on the radio, you protect the speakers... just turn it down if you hear distress from the speakers. Same thing you do when you drive your car... you don't worry about going to fast and crashing, you control the gas pedal. Get it?

Hoodlum007
08-30-2007, 12:52 PM
first of all do not buy that auidofonics, they are low end amps that will creat tons of engine noise and distortion and will not do anything close to the power they are rated at.

on the comps, i can vouche for the quality and durability of the CDt CL's, they sound great and can take some serious abuse and still hold up. The RSD's are good as well but they do not sound as good as the CL's IMO.

rmdl51
08-31-2007, 07:01 PM
I got the point about the gains, Thank you! That's what I needed to know.

Unfortunately something must be wrong with my setup, suddenly I'm getting a loud thump from the subs when I turn off the ignition, and a terrible whining noise from all four speakers, I even install ground loop isolators without any luck.

I still don't understand how come this start just by disconnecting the amps to check their specs and the plugged back in and all of the sudden start happening I check all grounds and seem to be ok, maybe I should start replacing my rca cables, I have cheap ones from wal-mart, but I don't know where to get the ones I need. I need the ones with L shape for the plug behind the HU since I don't have enough room behind the dashboard to use the regular ones.

Thank you all for the help, I'll be upgrading part by part in the coming weeks, so I'll be around

kross
09-01-2007, 02:22 AM
When you were disconnecting the wiring, is there any chance the RCA's touched the power wire? If so, that will instantly damage your headunit, and one symptom is the whining noise.

As for for L-connectors for the RCA's, you can use these, and then use any RCA cables you want:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=091-180

http://www.partsexpress.com/images/091-180m.jpg

rmdl51
09-04-2007, 05:06 PM
Dejawiz, is this one the same you suggest for my CVR's?
http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=252358
I'm confused because I'm not sure if it's class D or not and if it will be 1ohm stable.

Thank you Kross, those L-connectors I've been looking for a while!

BTW! I don't think the RCA's touched the power, but I'm not sure could be and maybe I didn't notice. I will be grounding the RCA outputs to the chassis as the writeup on the stickies suggest and see if that works but I'm so concerned about the thump on my subs so I disconnected them until I have enough time to work on them and see what could be wrong.

DejaWiz
09-04-2007, 05:11 PM
That's the one!

$175 shipped:
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=16363

rmdl51
09-04-2007, 05:32 PM
Thanks! I was confused because the box said Class A/B, but the specs describe a class D and since I don't really know much about it, I better ask. Also the model you give me had a D at the end so I thought will be a different one.

rmdl51
09-05-2007, 02:37 AM
Ok! I just placed the order online, I bought the Hifonics and the Phoenix gold comps you suggest earlier. I'm thinking that if I'm gonna work maybe a weekend installing this I would like to start from scratch and do it well, I Mean:

New Amp (hifonics) for my CVR's, and some good shielded RCA's
New comps (PG) and new pair of RCA's also,
and here's when I asked myself if I should buy the new amp for my new comps, I know you guys told me maybe the crappy audiofonics will do it, but will I see any big improvement if I install let's say the Kicker you suggested previously? what about stay with a 4-ch amp to keep my rear coaxials? what do you suggest me to do about that.

DejaWiz
09-05-2007, 12:35 PM
I'd honestly just amp the fronts and leave the rears powered by the HU (or disconnect them altogether to see how you like it). If it's still lacking, then maybe worry about a 4 channel amp down the road.

Try the Audiofonics amp for now, as there's no since in spending more money if you don't have to. If it sounds like butt and you're not pleased with it, then go for the Kicker amp.

rmdl51
09-05-2007, 02:14 PM
Ok, one more question, (I know too many noobish questions and many subjects) I'm concerned about which AWG I should use. since I want to rewire everything (or at least the most important parts). Can you tell my for my setup which AWG is the best to use to power up the amps? is it ok to bridge the power from one amp to another? or I should run two power cables from the batt? the cable for door speakers seems very thin and cheap, should I replace or it doesn't really make a big difference, I mean the cable that it's going from the amp to the comps.

rmdl51
09-06-2007, 12:38 PM
Can the Kicker KX250.2 power up efficiently the phoenix gold rsd? I saw it on ebay for about 70+ shipping.

DejaWiz
09-06-2007, 02:20 PM
Should be okay, but I'd recommend am amp that can provide them with at least 100-120w rms per channel. Not that that's a whole lot of difference.

kross
09-06-2007, 03:47 PM
The zx450.2, which can do 150w x 2 @ 4 ohms, would be ideal, if you can find a good deal on one.

kross
09-06-2007, 04:02 PM
As for your wiring questions, a single run of 4 gauge from the battery to the trunk, into a distro block, which splits it into two for the two amps, should be okay. If you have the budget for it, use 1/0 gauge wire instead, since it will allow you to upgrade your amps without having to run new power wire. But I recall you saying you're on a tight budget. www.knukonceptz.com has some inexpensive, good quality wiring kits.

For speaker wire, yes you should use new wire, not the factory wire. If you're buying power wire from knukonceptz, throw in some speaker wire too. The Karma 16 gauge is a good inexpensive choice.

rmdl51
09-06-2007, 05:10 PM
Pardon my ignorance, isn't less efficient to use 4 AWG in my setup which is 600w for subs and 150w comps? I should be wrong because I don't really know much about how to calculate the total wattage, but my old setup has a power of 10 AWG (which I disconnected already for the annoying noise and thump on the subs) I thought upgrading to 8 AWG would be ok, but I'm surprised about your recommendation of 4 or even 1/0 AWG. I would really appreciate if you let me know where I got lost.

About the amp, the PG RSD are 60w RMS, why do I need 100-150w p/ch? won't that blow the comps?
Besides that I was thinking on getting a 4-ch kicker amp and bridge it for the comps and power up rears from HU, if I don't like it then I already have a 4-ch amp. which 4ch amp will allow me to do that?

Thanks again!

kross
09-06-2007, 05:46 PM
I was thinking about the zx450.2 when I said that. With a smaller amp, the 4 gauge is plenty for the two amps. Sorry for the confusion.

Also, if you look in the Wire Guide thread http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=166038 you'll see 8 gauge is inadequate.

As for the proper amount of power for those speakers, even though the specs say 60wrms, 60w really isn't enough for those speakers. Search the forums here, and you'll find many people giving them 120w (and sometimes more), with great results. Those speakers are actually quite power hungry. You won't blow them as long as you give it a good clean signal that never clips. A clipped signal is the easiest way to overheat a voice coil.

rmdl51
09-06-2007, 07:01 PM
You're right! I got it now! 600w hifonics + 450w kicker = 1050w = wire guide -> 4AWG
Thanks a lot, everything start making sense for me!

what do you think about the 4-ch idea? I always try to have a few extra options instead of having to buy another amp later on. I was thinking about the zx650.4, the only problem is too expensive for my budget right now (over $200), but if you think is ok I'll wait a little more until I find a good deal. I guess it's ok because it says 120w rms x 4 @ 4ohm p/ch.

kross
09-06-2007, 07:30 PM
The zx650.4 is indeed nice, it will certainly get the job done. And if you've made up your mind you want 4 channels, that would be a good one. Or you can bridge it for 325w x 2. Or use the front 2 channels for your front speakers, and bridge the two back channels for a 325w sub.

If you want clean power on a budget, check out Profile amps from millionbuy. This one does 160w x 2 for $86 plus shipping

http://www.millionbuy.com/prfap1000.html

rmdl51
09-10-2007, 12:45 AM
Thanks for the suggestion on the amp but I already place an order for the zx650.4 so now I'm a little bit confused about the distro block? which one would you recommend for my setup, I've seen some that inputs 4 gauge and output 2 line of 8 gauge is that ok? besides some distro block requires fuses, I have no idea which ones to buy and if they are necessary, what do you suggest me to get?

kross
09-10-2007, 03:28 AM
You cannot use 8 gauge wire at any point with those two amps. You can use a single run of 4-gauge, and split it to two 4-gauge outputs for the amps, but you're getting very close to the current carrying limit of the single 4-gauge power wire to the battery. But since you will only be using 4-ohm loads on the zx650.4, you won't be putting out more than 480w if you run all four channels at full power.

So that being said, you should really look into 1/0 gauge wire. But if you absolutely can't do it, you can use 4 gauge. The fuse that you will put in the wire, near the battery, will be rated around 125 amps. If you start drawing too much current from your amps than the wire can handle, the fuse will blow before the wire melts and starts a fire. But if the fuse ever does blow, DO NOT REPLACE IT WITH A BIGGER FUSE! Turn the amps down, or upgrade the wire! Only if you upgrade the wire, can you use a bigger fuse.

Here's a distro block you can use:

http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KNF-12

By the way, you're putting together a pretty decent system. I seem to recall you saying your Pioneer headunit might need replacing, or am I remembering wrong? It's too hard to go back and read a thread while I've already started typing a reply...

rmdl51
09-10-2007, 12:04 PM
Thanks Kross! That's really my objective, build something decent, not anything fancy or top of the line, but something that really gives me good SQ without issues. I got tired of my old crappy setup which everybody told me it was ok (just co-workers who don't really know much about car audio) but I've listened some systems that sound amazing and when I listen mine there was a HUGE difference. So, with all your help of everybody here and a little research I guess it wasn't necessary to spend a small fortune to get a decent setup:

Hifonics bxi606 $175 shipped
Kicker zx650.4 $186 shipped
PG RSD 6.5 $95 shipped

I just need to buy the cables now and distro block, oh and the L shape RCA's.
I'm gonna keep my 10" CVR's which I'm gonna give them 300w @1 ohm each side.
About the HU I think I'll keep it. I hope the whining noise is not a damaged HU, I'm gonna ground the RCA on the back of the unit to see if that fix the problem, but I was worried about the comment everybody says an internal fuse might blow when you do that.

I don't really want to upgrade HU now because I would really like to get a Pionner NAV system in the future, but I don't know.

BTW I'll check the prices on 1/0 gauge and see if I can afford it, after buying those 3 things I'm pretty much broke right now :P

DejaWiz
09-10-2007, 12:10 PM
Man, you should have one nice system for the money spent!

kross
09-10-2007, 02:16 PM
BTW I'll check the prices on 1/0 gauge and see if I can afford it, after buying those 3 things I'm pretty much broke right now :P

Check ebay for Kicker PKD1 wiring kits. It's a dual-amp kit, it includes 1/0 gauge wire, a distro block, and some 4 gauge wire to go to the amps from the distro block. Plus a few extra goodies, too. It can be had for around $90 shipped, I believe.

rmdl51
09-12-2007, 02:02 PM
Ok, Here I come again...

I just receive the Hifonics and I noticed that it has 4 teminals (-)(-)(+)(+) but it's single channel right? if I'm plugging my CVR's at 1 ohm which their DVC are already in parallel, should I merge both wires and use a single (+) (-) from the amp? or is it true that it's internally bridged and it has two set of terminals for convenience to avoid merging the subs cables and then I'm able to connect each sub to it's own terminal and still be 1 ohm? My purpose is to give them 600w RMS.

Ok about the cables now, I'm pretty much done buying stuff, I just need to buy the power wires and distro block, the kicker kit you suggest before contents:

20 ft. - 1/2 AWG Power Cable (is this one ok? I though you suggest 1/0)
3 ft. - 1/0 AWG Ground Cable (here I got lost why ground is diff?)
5 ft. - 4 AWG extra Power Cable (is this ok to run from distro to amps?)
5 ft. - 4 AWG extra Ground Cable (I think this is also for the amp to distro)
2 Power Distribution Blocks (DB 1448)
Fuse Holder (FHMA)
300A ANL Fuse (what is this fuse for? the one for batt terminal? too big right? you suggest 125A)

Ok, Thanks for the help

rmdl51
09-14-2007, 02:22 PM
Try to find a Class D mono amp that is 1 ohm stable at around 600-800w rms for those subs. (each wired in parallel = 2 ohms each, then both wired in parallel = 1 ohm at the amp)

Something like a Hifonics BXi606D or similar.

after some searching I think I understand pretty much everything on the cables, I dont want to start a new thread for this question, I know I've been off the main topic but I hope you can help me with this one.

I'm confused about wiring the CVR's at 1 ohm, according to your saying I believe they should be wiring in one of these ways, but I'm not sure which is the correct one:
11375

11376

11377

Besides I found this equation diagram on the forum which I think (if I'm doing the math ok) the setup in any of these ways will be 4 ohm

11378

Can someone clear up this for me please?

Thank you!

DejaWiz
09-14-2007, 02:32 PM
It really doesn't matter much.

However, I say middle diagram. But use the left + and - for one sub and the right + and - for the other.

(+) (+) (-) (-)
L+ R+ L- R-

rmdl51
09-14-2007, 02:59 PM
Ok! I Got it! so, this will be 1 ohm as you said before? I just want to get the best performance out of my new setup, and I believe that's 600w rms @ 1ohm correct?

DejaWiz
09-14-2007, 04:29 PM
Correct sir!