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dvrmstrng
07-23-2007, 07:03 PM
ive searched but cant find exactly what im looking for...yes i know that going from Germs to the Profi line is a step up but for someone who is running passive and is new to the component speaker scene (ive always had a stock front stage) is it worth spending the extra money...


car is a 2006 grand cherokee
amp will be a USAMPS1600.2
rear fill will most likely be an older xxx 12 off 1kw...

Don (6spdcoupe) will be doing the install no matter which direction i go....thanks guys

mike11202
07-23-2007, 07:08 PM
Yeah I'm thinking about picking up a set of Profi Kick's from don too, I e-mailed rainbow about getting the best response/output for midbass and they recommended the CMX 265 Kick's and Profi Kick's for my price range.

dvrmstrng
07-23-2007, 07:27 PM
hmm...well what do you guys think...Germaniums with an amp better than the xt1600.2 or...profi kicks with the 1600.2

LUST OF DECAY
07-23-2007, 07:34 PM
hmm...well what do you guys think...Germaniums with an amp better than the xt1600.2 or...profi kicks with the 1600.2


these guys here dont respond worth a *****. your buddy doing the install is probably pissed at you for posting a thread about this because you, 6 speed coupe and i both know that y'all have already talked about this. listen to your boy six speed he know's what he's doing. dont **** him off

dvrmstrng
07-23-2007, 07:57 PM
alright sounds like a plan....6spd thinks that Profi's should have a better amp than a USAmps....and i dont have the funds to run that kind of amp...so i guess Germs it would be...i hope im not pissing don off...just wondering what the other thousands of people think besides him...sorry

LUST OF DECAY
07-23-2007, 07:59 PM
alright sounds like a plan....6spd thinks that Profi's should have a better amp than a USAmps....and i dont have the funds to run that kind of amp...so i guess Germs it would be...i hope im not pissing don off...just wondering what the other thousands of people think besides him...sorry

you ever look at TRU or HELIX?

slick rick
07-23-2007, 08:03 PM
alright sounds like a plan....6spd thinks that Profi's should have a better amp than a USAmps....and i dont have the funds to run that kind of amp...so i guess Germs it would be...i hope im not pissing don off...just wondering what the other thousands of people think besides him...sorry

you're not...why not get the profi's then upgrade the amp later?

mike11202
07-23-2007, 08:04 PM
yeah if thats the xterminator us amps series i wouldn't run those high end comps on it... i heard their extremely over rated, even us amps themselves said they were

rainbow also said to look at a high-end amps like Genesis, Brax, McIntosh, Tru, and Sinfoni to run the Profi's off of. don must know his sh*t

LUST OF DECAY
07-23-2007, 08:07 PM
i'd look at TRU. they can custom build you an amp

dvrmstrng
07-23-2007, 08:10 PM
i dont want a custom built amp....im just wondering if there is even a SINGLE advantage of running profi's off the amp i have instead of germs....if there isnt even a single advantage i wont bother...if there is i will in hope to one day upgrade the amp

LUST OF DECAY
07-23-2007, 08:18 PM
i dont want a custom built amp....im just wondering if there is even a SINGLE advantage of running profi's off the amp i have instead of germs....if there isnt even a single advantage i wont bother...if there is i will in hope to one day upgrade the amp

go ahead and get the profi's- you'll notice the difference. get the amp later

dvrmstrng
07-23-2007, 08:26 PM
anyone else...will i notice the difference with the amp im using? or should i just stick with germs? just looking to get a few opinions

Beerdrnkr
07-23-2007, 08:27 PM
I ran my Germs off of a power acoustik amp for a little bit and it sounded surprisingly good and loud so you should be fine with that amp for now. If you want the most out of whichever set you get you'll want to upgrade later of course.

dvrmstrng
07-23-2007, 08:37 PM
so is your suggestion run the profi kicks with the USAmps and look for a future upgrade in amp? instead of running germs and having to upgrade both later?

LUST OF DECAY
07-23-2007, 08:43 PM
so is your suggestion run the profi kicks with the USAmps and look for a future upgrade in amp? instead of running germs and having to upgrade both later?

yes get the profi's.

dvrmstrng
07-23-2007, 08:44 PM
sounds like a plan....they run just close to 600 right?

Beerdrnkr
07-23-2007, 08:47 PM
I love my germs personally but I've never heard the profi's. Either set will need an upgraded amp. I thought Profi's were better for running active and the germs passive but I'm not positive about that.

dvrmstrng
07-23-2007, 08:50 PM
could someone explain why an upgraded amp is such a necessity....i thought this usamps did rated power...this is my first set of components and i want to do it right...i see people running worse amps...and worse components...is this amp really going to hold it back that badly?

azbass
07-23-2007, 09:01 PM
you might as well get the better speakers now. they will be fine off the us amp. probably wont even need to upgrade.

dvrmstrng
07-23-2007, 09:03 PM
thank you....i guess you kinda know what your talking about

LUST OF DECAY
07-23-2007, 09:04 PM
you might as well get the better speakers now. they will be fine off the us amp. probably wont even need to upgrade.

yep... get the better speakers now then think of this company next time
:eek:

http://www.livejasmin.com/freechat.php?performerid=bootycall4u&tags=girl+ebony

dvrmstrng
07-23-2007, 09:07 PM
what is the RMS on the profis?

dvrmstrng
07-23-2007, 09:14 PM
180RMS....for the profi kicks...should be interesting

gsr22
07-23-2007, 09:42 PM
dont post stupid **** links man

dvrmstrng
07-23-2007, 09:44 PM
why isnt that dude banned yet?

and back on topic...whats everyone else think

slick rick
07-23-2007, 10:02 PM
I'll give you my germs for the profi's if you don't like em. :)

dvrmstrng
07-23-2007, 10:05 PM
alright sounds good

gsr22
07-23-2007, 10:08 PM
why isnt that dude banned yet?

and back on topic...whats everyone else think


seriously nothing but stupid immature posts


but neways i just picked up a set of germs should be putting them in this weekend ill let you know how i like them

i looked at both the profis and the germs and went with the germs because of the better passive xover and different tweeter attetiuations (sp)

I would definetly listen to Don though he seems like he really knows his stuff
also since you live near them couldnt you swing by the shop and check out both sets of speakers

WhoSayWho?
07-23-2007, 10:08 PM
So what do you think that amp realistically puts out? The only possible danger I see is that if the amp is not sufficient to drive those speakers and as a result you push it into clipping.

Other than that I would try to avoid buying speakers that you think that you will want to upgrade later.

WhoSayWho?
07-23-2007, 10:11 PM
seriously nothing but stupid immature posts


but neways i just picked up a set of germs should be putting them in this weekend ill let you know how i like them

i looked at both the profis and the germs and went with the germs because of the better passive xover and different tweeter attetiuations (sp)

I would definetly listen to Don though he seems like he really knows his stuff
also since you live near them couldnt you swing by the shop and check out both sets of speakers

So what is your plan for using that 300.4? I have the same amp and I really like it.

dvrmstrng
07-23-2007, 10:13 PM
i thought USamps was a solid amp that did rated power...its rated at 200x2 @ 4...the speakers are 180RMS...i thought it would at least be sufficient...is it not?

i guess they dont do rated power?

gsr22
07-23-2007, 10:15 PM
my plan is to biamp the germs(cant wait) and thats really reassuring knowing that you like it. the amp seems like its made reall well.

what are you running the amp with as long as setting and what not
thanks

dvrmstrng
07-23-2007, 10:16 PM
havent run it yet....after all this talk about how bad this amp is im worried about even running it with the germs let alone the Profi kicks...anyone got the lowdown on this amp...does it do rated power?

T3mpest
07-23-2007, 10:17 PM
i thought USamps was a solid amp that did rated power...its rated at 200x2 @ 4...the speakers are 180RMS...i thought it would at least be sufficient...is it not?

i guess they dont do rated power?

It probably does do rated power, dont' worry about it. I think we are back the "sq amp" scenario. Honstly, if your running them passively then worrying about your amps SQ is like worrying about what wheels to put on your stock geo metro to allow it to win a drag race. It's a very tiny detail and you'd be missing the bigger picture.

dvrmstrng
07-23-2007, 10:20 PM
yeah i mean im a kid whose never even had components.....and between the two sets there is about $100 difference...i just dont wanna make the wrong choice then wanna change...im heading out for the the night please continue the discussion ill check back when i get home

Tempest...which set would you suggest then?

slick rick
07-23-2007, 10:22 PM
lol bro this is like turning 16 and choosing between a porsche and a ferrari for a first car...either are better than 99% of what 16 year olds own.

Get the profi's and enjoy life...and bug the hell outta don with newb questions when he installs em. :)

CrazedCat
07-23-2007, 10:59 PM
I'm 10 mins. from Don I wanna ice a 12 pack and watch this install...Don sweating in the heat being bombarded by your questions AHAHAHAHAHA good times. :)

I thought you were going Zapco! :(

WhoSayWho?
07-23-2007, 11:02 PM
my plan is to biamp the germs(cant wait) and thats really reassuring knowing that you like it. the amp seems like its made reall well.

what are you running the amp with as long as setting and what not
thanks

Currently I am only using two of the four channels. (I used to have the rear two bridged to run an IDQ 10). Anyway, I can't really recall precisely where everything is set. I have been running it about two years and it has been a low maintenance amp that I don't have to worry about. I think you will be pleased.

Eugenics
07-23-2007, 11:36 PM
I would run the profi's with the amp. You can always upgrade it later, and you'll be more likely to notice and appreciate whatever difference there is and appreciate the speakers more.

WhoSayWho?
07-23-2007, 11:41 PM
Honestly you should relax about this purchase. You are lucky to live close enough to Don that he can actually do the install for you. (never thought that I would tell anyone they were lucky for living in NJ)

Just listen to Don -- I am sure he will steer you right.

Flipx99
07-23-2007, 11:45 PM
I got the profi kicks but I haven't heard them yet.

WhoSayWho?
07-23-2007, 11:47 PM
I got the profi kicks but I haven't heard them yet.

:(

Eugenics
07-23-2007, 11:49 PM
Honestly you should relax about this purchase. You are lucky to live close enough to Don that he can actually do the install for you. (never thought that I would tell anyone they were lucky for living in NJ)

Just listen to Don -- I am sure he will steer you right.

Don is probably a god in NJ, thanks to him theres at least one sense that New Jersey hasn't claimed and destroyed for itself.

Flipx99
07-23-2007, 11:54 PM
:(

You wouldn't believe the trouble I went through in making them fit.

Currently, I am rhinolining / modifying my door panels to make them fit.

Thing is...the profi kicks require a good substage to extend up to ateast 60-70 hertz.

I am running a sealed box. If you don't have a substage that can extend that high...I would proly choose the profi phase plug.

Eugenics
07-24-2007, 12:07 AM
cotjones found a good solution to that problem.

6spdcoupe
07-24-2007, 12:32 AM
lol bro this is like turning 16 and choosing between a porsche and a ferrari for a first car...either are better than 99% of what 16 year olds own.

Get the profi's and enjoy life...and bug the hell outta don with newb questions when he installs em. :)


You really want to be messed with on the orgY huh? :)

WhoSayWho?
07-24-2007, 12:32 AM
You wouldn't believe the trouble I went through in making them fit.

Currently, I am rhinolining / modifying my door panels to make them fit.

Thing is...the profi kicks require a good substage to extend up to ateast 60-70 hertz.

I am running a sealed box. If you don't have a substage that can extend that high...I would proly choose the profi phase plug.

Those Profi phase plugs look nice, but I expect I will just get some Germaniums and call it a day.

6spdcoupe
07-24-2007, 12:33 AM
I'm 10 mins. from Don I wanna ice a 12 pack and watch this install...Don sweating in the heat being bombarded by your questions AHAHAHAHAHA good times. :)

I thought you were going Zapco! :(

Not a problem, but bring me coffee instead. :) Alchohol during install = nono. ;)

Flipx99
07-24-2007, 12:36 AM
Those Profi phase plugs look nice, but I expect I will just get some Germaniums and call it a day.

Not a bad choice...especially if you are passive.

I bought my parts in individual drivers because I wanted specific things.

The crossover on the germs is supposed to be amazingly (Is that even a word) flexible.

6spdcoupe
07-24-2007, 12:38 AM
As I told him in PMs ..the amp he has will work just fine. Its more on an ego thing and of course my tainted tastes when applying things together. Does my IXOS Ixotica wire really make a difference? No of course not. Do I feel better about flipping the coin for it rather than 'generic'? Well yea. :) The amp/Profi combo just doesnt seem to fit together, but Will work perfectly fine. They do rated power and will get the job done.

As for amps being 'better'.. No, we are not talking about 'SQ amps' they simply do not exist. Now sonically will they have different charactaristics/signature? Yes. The Xterminators 'sound' sterile and lifeless to me, Not what will be the likes of Profis to life. Will He notice a difference? Most likely not.

6spdcoupe
07-24-2007, 12:38 AM
I got the profi kicks but I haven't heard them yet.

Slacker :p:

Flipx99
07-24-2007, 12:44 AM
Slacker :p:

You wouldn't believe the things I learned in this build. I keep getting discouraged and try to buy my way out of problems...you don't really try to sell me anything and I re-up an re-attack the problem.

It's like you know what's better for me than I do....and that is why you get so much love on this forum.

My last step is figuring out what color SEM paint matches GM pewter interior.

dvrmstrng
07-24-2007, 12:53 AM
had to check the thread even though im out....i think im gonna go with the profi kicks...work my *** off and maybe upgrade the amp later...

as for those who asekd about substage its gonna be an xxx 12 (older style) with a little over 1k on it...ported

LUST OF DECAY
07-24-2007, 12:53 AM
i wonder if those profi's get loud and crank like hell to metal. im getting rid of my idq8's- way too much work to get those badboys in the door

Flipx99
07-24-2007, 12:55 AM
had to check the thread even though im out....i think im gonna go with the profi kicks...work my *** off and maybe upgrade the amp later...

as for those who asekd about substage its gonna be an xxx 12 (older style) with a little over 1k on it...ported

I'd be iffy

From my understanding xbl^2 subs don't play well that high. You are going to need a substage or an 8" or something to play the missing frequencies.

IIRC, xbl^2 starts to sound poor around 50 Hz then profis don't kick in until 80 hz.

I don't know if you will notice..but it is something to think about.

6spdcoupe
07-24-2007, 12:57 AM
You wouldn't believe the things I learned in this build. I keep getting discouraged and try to buy my way out of problems...you don't really try to sell me anything and I re-up an re-attack the problem.

It's like you know what's better for me than I do....and that is why you get so much love on this forum.

My last step is figuring out what color SEM paint matches GM pewter interior.


I do the opposite and ignore you when you ask to buy something different. :) Eventualy youll get them fockers in there and thank me later. ;)

Ugh I knew the answer to that. I may have to look around and see if I can remember. Did a truck not too long ago and used the exact paint. If I can figure it out I can also tell you which suede and vinyl match too. :D

6spdcoupe
07-24-2007, 12:58 AM
I'd be iffy

From my understanding xbl^2 subs don't play well that high. You are going to need a substage or an 8" or something to play the missing frequencies.

IIRC, xbl^2 starts to sound poor around 50 Hz then profis don't kick in until 80 hz.

I don't know if you will notice..but it is something to think about.

With his setup, he may be better off with Standard Profis. Easier on the pocket too ..

6spdcoupe
07-24-2007, 12:58 AM
Oh dayum, am I Downselling again? :wow: :)

LUST OF DECAY
07-24-2007, 01:01 AM
i wonder if those profi's get loud and crank like hell to metal. im getting rid of my idq8's- way too much work to get those badboys in the door

???????????????????????????

Flipx99
07-24-2007, 01:02 AM
With his setup, he may be better off with Standard Profis. Easier on the pocket too ..

ha ha...I was (at least) somewhat correct. I am getting the car audio stuff. Not just a repeater but evidence. :)

Also, to OP. If you are dropping it in a basket you might need to consider how the basket to the profi's are formed. They basket is rather wide and you may need to make a small ring rather than dropping it straight in a plastic OEM baffle. But IMO it makes it much stronger.

Use Goop to bond the plastic to the wood. It does a pretty good job of bonding but will give up the grip if you mess up and need to get the ring off by smashing it with a hammer.

6spdcoupe
07-24-2007, 01:04 AM
???????????????????????????

You would be better off looking at Vanadiums. But why not Iridiums?

6spdcoupe
07-24-2007, 01:06 AM
ha ha...I was (at least) somewhat correct. I am getting the car audio stuff. Not just a repeater but evidence. :)

Also, to OP. If you are dropping it in a basket you might need to consider how the basket to the profi's are formed. They basket is rather wide and you may need to make a small ring rather than dropping it straight in a plastic OEM baffle. But IMO it makes it much stronger.

Use Goop to bond the plastic to the wood. It does a pretty good job of bonding but will give up the grip if you mess up and need to get the ring off by smashing it with a hammer.

Youve come a long way grasshopper. :)

A standard MDF ring will suffice. They hate with a passion to be enclosed. Originally intended for IB and off axis, they utterly hate solitude inside things. ;)

LUST OF DECAY
07-24-2007, 01:07 AM
You would be better off looking at Vanadiums. But why not Iridiums?


I DONT LIKE DLS ANYMORE- POOR CUSTOMER SERVICE. vanadiums, huh? which do you think would crank : cdt es07 paired up with cdt es01 tweets or your vanadiums

dvrmstrng
07-24-2007, 02:06 AM
what is xbl^2 and why couldnt the substage play up that high?

6spdcoupe
07-24-2007, 02:12 AM
I DONT LIKE DLS ANYMORE- POOR CUSTOMER SERVICE. vanadiums, huh? which do you think would crank : cdt es07 paired up with cdt es01 tweets or your vanadiums

Something changed in the past several Hours?

Couldnt tell which would 'crank' better. I have yet to make a subjective comparison with 'cranking' as a target.

And Please change your avatar, its quite disturbing.

6spdcoupe
07-24-2007, 02:13 AM
what is xbl^2 and why couldnt the substage play up that high?

Its the motor in that XXX.

No such thing as 'substage', the stage is in front of you.

It could, but would be better left alone with midbass picking up.

dvrmstrng
07-24-2007, 02:13 AM
don would you mind explaining the XBL^2 comment above...i dont understand?

dvrmstrng
07-24-2007, 02:15 AM
so what was he saying...that the xxx 12 and profi kicks would no cover all ranges of sound?

6spdcoupe
07-24-2007, 02:19 AM
so what was he saying...that the xxx 12 and profi kicks would no cover all ranges of sound?

Kick yes, standard no.

dvrmstrng
07-24-2007, 02:20 AM
then kicks it is....let me know when i can come up to Edison

6spdcoupe
07-24-2007, 02:21 AM
Why would you want them if I just confirmed they wouldnt work as well?

6spdcoupe
07-24-2007, 02:22 AM
so what was he saying...that the xxx 12 and profi kicks would no cover all ranges of sound?

Yes or no question correct? Answer is above.

dvrmstrng
07-24-2007, 02:22 AM
wait im confused...so which would be better?

the standards...

6spdcoupe
07-24-2007, 02:22 AM
Yes, standard would be better.

dvrmstrng
07-24-2007, 02:23 AM
Don you must hate me

dvrmstrng
07-24-2007, 02:23 AM
do i dare ask why the regulars would be better? for less money nonetheless im not arugeing with it just like to learn things

Eugenics
07-24-2007, 02:27 AM
because they play lower (with less of a dropoff) i believe

dvrmstrng
07-24-2007, 02:30 AM
no i knew that i think...i was more asking why a lower priced speaker would be able to do it?

fatryan
07-24-2007, 02:32 AM
where u guys at in NJ?

dvrmstrng
07-24-2007, 02:32 AM
im in Manasquan in Monmouth County...Dons up in Edison...

fatryan
07-24-2007, 02:34 AM
like way up northern NJ?

dvrmstrng
07-24-2007, 02:35 AM
no i knew that i think...i was more asking why a lower priced speaker would be able to do it?

anyone...


in central dons more north

fatryan
07-24-2007, 02:38 AM
aw f that. i was gonna say id like to come see the install sine im in the market for some rainbows, but i think its just a little too far

dvrmstrng
07-24-2007, 02:39 AM
i need to decide what to do first...im really torn

fatryan
07-24-2007, 02:41 AM
i need to decide what to do first...im really torn
well since this is your first set, id say just get the germs. i mean, if you got the money get the best if not, you should be plenty happy with germs. theyve got a great reputation. im torn too though ha. im looking at slc kicks germs and cmx's trying to figure out what would be the best to handle 200wrms a piece and sound good. passive setup, no intentions of going active anytime in the next few years

fatryan
07-24-2007, 02:42 AM
what kinda price you gettin for the germs btw

dvrmstrng
07-24-2007, 02:53 AM
talk to Don about pricing...

well maybe you can help

i have the money for anything profile line or lower (600 ish)
i have an average amp that does 200x2
i will not be going active

im actually kinda surprised that people are suggesting Germs over the profi line...but no one really explains why

fatryan
07-24-2007, 02:57 AM
well i saw it mentioned that germs are better for passive. also, ive seen it mentioned that theres no sense in going profi unless you get a better amp. ive never owned a set of rainbows...yet :) but just going by what people have said and what youve said about yourself, id honestly stick with the germs and invest the rest of your money into something else. you say its your first set of comps and it doesnt sound like your extremely knowledgable on the subject of components, no offense. so chances are you wouldnt even notice a difference in SQ. maybe take the extra money and save up for a nice amp. or maybe get some decent rear fill.

dvrmstrng
07-24-2007, 03:00 AM
hmm im guessing your right...i just dont want to own the germs for 2 months and then wanna upgrade

fatryan
07-24-2007, 03:01 AM
i doubt thatll happen. i mean, youd hafta have some **** picky ears to hate those as your first set of comps

dvrmstrng
07-24-2007, 03:06 AM
yeah your right....don would you mind giving me your final input if your reading this?

fatryan
07-24-2007, 03:08 AM
yeah i def gotta get up for class in 3 1/2 hours :( :( :( im out. good luck though man

dvrmstrng
07-24-2007, 03:09 AM
thank you....don im headed to bed i hope you catch this thread before you leave...and shoot me a PM tomorrow about an appointment

CrazedCat
07-24-2007, 06:58 AM
yeah your right....don would you mind giving me your final input if your reading this?

He's not downselling again. You're getting the regular Profis :)

Flipx99
07-24-2007, 09:06 AM
do i dare ask why the regulars would be better? for less money nonetheless im not arugeing with it just like to learn things

Because the profi kick is all about the kickbass region. It focuses all it's "talents" (if you will) around a rather small section of human hearing.

The regular profi doesn't not have this emphasis. It plays well over a larger span of frequencies.

The profi kick has to be crossed at 80 hz (some people tried 63 for a bit though, with mixed results) whereas the regular profi can be crossed much lower.

WhoSayWho?
07-24-2007, 11:05 AM
Because the profi kick is all about the kickbass region. It focuses all it's "talents" (if you will) around a rather small section of human hearing.

The regular profi doesn't not have this emphasis. It plays well over a larger span of frequencies.

The profi kick has to be crossed at 80 hz (some people tried 63 for a bit though, with mixed results) whereas the regular profi can be crossed much lower.

Edited for what I believe you meant to say.

To the OP, look @ what Flip said.

Forget about the price difference of the Profi's and the Profi Kicks. It is all about application and which speakers will suit your needs best.

Flipx99
07-24-2007, 11:43 AM
You are correct...

Personally, I would go with the phase cone over the regular....but then again when you are spending that much money, what's another ~$60 or whatever.

A

dvrmstrng
07-24-2007, 11:46 AM
alright....dons on so maybe he can give his input

Flipx99
07-24-2007, 11:54 AM
It's really up to you know...not much more anyone can say really.

Here is my thoughts on my purchase: I mostly listen to the Root, Common, Talib Kwali, A tribe called quest, etc. That music seems to emphasise drums and such...kick bass sounds.

In order to do this, I had to sacrifice my sub design. I chose the eD (I will prolly change to rl-is as I can afford them) because they sound decent and can easily extend to the higher frequencies. Of course this is in a sealed box. So I know my bass output won't be very high. However the goal here was a very balanced system.

As I can afford, I will swap out the eDs for a pair of rl-is, port them, and swap the profi kick for the profi phase cone. Reason being, the next sub setup will focus more on enhancing the lower frequencies. I will be needing a midbass to pickup at lower frequencies. I will lose in the kickbass region. (compared to the profi kick)

It's all about an overall system design and how each driver works together. That is why it's called a system, not a random assortment of speakers.

dvrmstrng
07-24-2007, 12:09 PM
so you think the phase plug would blend the best with a subwoofer that cant extend over 60htz very well

WhoSayWho?
07-24-2007, 12:14 PM
so you think the phase plug would blend the best with a subwoofer that cant extend over 60htz very well

I would go with the phase plug in that setup. You should be very happy.

azbass
07-24-2007, 12:14 PM
Don is probably a god in NJ, thanks to him theres at least one sense that New Jersey hasn't claimed and destroyed for itself.

im in NJ :wave:

WhoSayWho?
07-24-2007, 12:17 PM
im in NJ :wave:

I stay down to Hempstead State Park :woot:

Flipx99
07-24-2007, 12:26 PM
so you think the phase plug would blend the best with a subwoofer that cant extend over 60htz very well

Yes.

Plus "sq wise" most tend to perfer the phase cone.

I know Manny does.

slick rick
07-24-2007, 02:05 PM
You really want to be messed with on the orgY huh? :)

lol nah...I just had shoulder surgery and all I can do is lay around/surf the net all day. :)

CrazedCat
07-24-2007, 03:37 PM
Not a problem, but bring me coffee instead. :) Alchohol during install = nono. ;)

I think you're gonna need a beer. Or 8. http://smiliesftw.com/x/nut.gif (http://smiliesftw.com)

dvrmstrng
07-24-2007, 05:02 PM
hey Don i know im a bother but why no PM brothaman

Flipx99
07-24-2007, 05:06 PM
hey Don i know im a bother but why no PM brothaman

Don't feel bad, I PMed him about the paint color as well.

He does run a shop as well....so I just wait.

Patience my friend.

dvrmstrng
07-24-2007, 05:36 PM
i know...just not easy when your excited

3.5Max6spd
07-24-2007, 05:41 PM
i know...just not easy when your excited

He'll get back to you, hes a bit tied up today.

dvrmstrng
07-24-2007, 05:41 PM
not a problem...i understand hes a busy man

dvrmstrng
07-24-2007, 05:42 PM
what do you think 3.5.....substage is most likely going to be an xxx 12 off 1000 watts....profi's, profi kicks, profi phase plugs, or germs...amp is a usamps1600.2 to start...

SQBubble
07-24-2007, 06:23 PM
i remember someone that did an install that consist; profi phase plug 2-way + a profi kick and he said it sounds amazing, the profi kick lacks in mid-range and imaging compared to the phase plug, but the phase plug lacks mid-bass and punch compared to kick.... so having both should sound awsome and get plenty loud, but either way you will have a sweet setup, if someone know who im talking about and has a link of the forum would be appreciated.

azbass
07-24-2007, 06:27 PM
dons the install mastorz @!

Flipx99
07-24-2007, 06:30 PM
i remember someone that did an install that consist; profi phase plug 2-way + a profi kick and he said it sounds amazing, the profi kick lacks in mid-range and imaging compared to the phase plug, but the phase plug lacks mid-bass and punch compared to kick.... so having both should sound awsome and get plenty loud, but either way you will have a sweet setup, if someone know who im talking about and has a link of the forum would be appreciated.

That would be AVI on DIYMA.

dvrmstrng
07-24-2007, 07:41 PM
i cannot afford a phase plug 2 way and a profi kick....just cant...just like i cannot afford currently profi's and a arc audio, stetson, etc amp

WhoSayWho?
07-24-2007, 08:57 PM
i cannot afford a phase plug 2 way and a profi kick....just cant...just like i cannot afford currently profi's and a arc audio, stetson, etc amp

I don'y want to hear you talk like that again. You can afford it. You will buy both.

dvrmstrng
07-24-2007, 08:59 PM
haha i wish...i mean i could but i gotta start saving some money for school this year...

dvrmstrng
07-24-2007, 10:15 PM
bump for some more opinions on what YOU would do

Flipx99
07-24-2007, 11:23 PM
i cannot afford a phase plug 2 way and a profi kick....just cant...just like i cannot afford currently profi's and a arc audio, stetson, etc amp

If you can't afford it, then don't buy it.

Car Audio isn't like the rent. IMO it is high substitutable. I would piece together drivers on the discount and go active. I think that is the best way.

I just discover my OEM door pods are assymetrical, so it's back to the drawing board.

WhoSayWho?
07-24-2007, 11:33 PM
If you can't afford it, then don't buy it.

Car Audio isn't like the rent. IMO it is high substitutable. I would piece together drivers on the discount and go active. I think that is the best way.

I just discover my OEM door pods are assymetrical, so it's back to the drawing board.

Not sure what that means, but it sounds like you and your doors are going to have **** time, yes?

6spdcoupe
07-24-2007, 11:34 PM
i remember someone that did an install that consist; profi phase plug 2-way + a profi kick and he said it sounds amazing, the profi kick lacks in mid-range and imaging compared to the phase plug, but the phase plug lacks mid-bass and punch compared to kick.... so having both should sound awsome and get plenty loud, but either way you will have a sweet setup, if someone know who im talking about and has a link of the forum would be appreciated.

Neither lack per say, but they do their intended duties. Different drivers for different jobs. When combined it equals an earful of bliss.

6spdcoupe
07-24-2007, 11:35 PM
yeah your right....don would you mind giving me your final input if your reading this?

I have no clue where your at now bud.

6spdcoupe
07-24-2007, 11:36 PM
alright....dons on so maybe he can give his input

Don is Always on :fyi:

6spdcoupe
07-24-2007, 11:37 PM
dons the install mastorz @!

Aww thats the nicest thing you evar said about me :cuddle: :)

Flipx99
07-24-2007, 11:49 PM
Not sure what that means, but it sounds like you and your doors are going to have **** time, yes?

No.

It seems that the OEM door pods have a different depth. If I put a ring in the left side, it doesn't fit the same way on the passenger side.

For instance, on the passenger side the ring sits inside the panel. On the driver side it sticks outside the door panel.

So back to square one on replacing the door panels.

WhoSayWho?
07-25-2007, 12:06 AM
No.

It seems that the OEM door pods have a different depth. If I put a ring in the left side, it doesn't fit the same way on the passenger side.

For instance, on the passenger side the ring sits inside the panel. On the driver side it sticks outside the door panel.

So back to square one on replacing the door panels.

That ***** big time. Maybe BMX could add your replacement panels to his scavenger list.


Any idea whether junkyards link inventories by computer now?

Flipx99
07-25-2007, 12:15 AM
Yes, some do.

But not by color.

Not sure what to do now w/o buying new door panels.

If I get new door panels I can make a ring out of 1/4" that will work ( I stock mdf in 1/4,1/2,5/8,and 3/4 if you ever need anything)

But I need new door panels to make this work....or make a grill.

My attempt at bedlining my door panels failed miserably. It peeled off.


------------------


In all honesty, if a forum member located a set of door panels, I would pay them a finder's fee for their efforts.

WhoSayWho?
07-25-2007, 12:26 AM
In all honesty, if a forum member located a set of door panels, I would pay them a finder's fee for their efforts.

I was actually think along those lines. Maybe even post it in the WTB section --- then explain what you are asking for is someone to find the panels (and you will pay the first one to locate them a certain amount.

I will be glad to call around here if you will tell me exactly what I need to ask for. Of course the problem is that sometimes they don't know what they have until they get into a van that you cannot believe runs and drive around (yes, I have done this before). But I don't want yo monies.

Flipx99
07-25-2007, 12:32 AM
I was actually think along those lines. Maybe even post it in the WTB section --- then explain what you are asking for is someone to find the panels (and you will pay the first one to locate them a certain amount.

I will be glad to call around here if you will tell me exactly what I need to ask for. Of course the problem is that sometimes they don't know what they have until they get into a van that you cannot believe runs and drive around (yes, I have done this before). But I don't want yo monies.

ygpm...

The 'yards I go around...you never know what to be prepared to fight.

slick rick
07-25-2007, 12:51 AM
Don sell this kid some audiobahn components and lets get on with life. :)

dvrmstrng
07-25-2007, 01:55 AM
haha....well i think ill go with the profi regulars....i think they will work best with my subwoofer...don when can i come up for the installation fun?

dvrmstrng
07-25-2007, 01:57 AM
to be honest though i was banking on more peoples input....maybe i should redo this thread....i have a $700 budget for components...i would like to do rainbows...i want good midbass because to be honest ive never even had midbass...

i have 2x200 watts to work with....is the profi line for me?

PremierAudio
07-25-2007, 09:21 AM
Stick with the Profis, you would be glad you did. On the US amps XT, while they do rated power, I agree with don, in that they sound lifeless. You do get what you pay for in an amp Im affraid. I have sold tons of them, and I have had no complaints of any of them, but 90% of the people end up selling them and stepping up to get something better. Just listen to Don, hes been in the game a long time and knows what hes talking about.

WhoSayWho?
07-25-2007, 09:35 AM
Paralysis by analysis.

Flipx99
07-25-2007, 09:38 AM
to be honest though i was banking on more peoples input....maybe i should redo this thread....i have a $700 budget for components...i would like to do rainbows...i want good midbass because to be honest ive never even had midbass...

i have 2x200 watts to work with....is the profi line for me?

Don't be scared. It isn't like choosing which nut you would rather lose. Rainbows have excellent resale value just in case you do not like them.

dvrmstrng
07-25-2007, 10:15 AM
from that post though do you have a suggestion...there are so many lines to go with...

gsr22
07-25-2007, 10:21 AM
profi plugs ftw

3.5Max6spd
07-25-2007, 10:30 AM
Having used the profi drivers...if i were to do 2way I'd use the Phase Plugs. The midbass is snappy and the midrange is top notch.

dvrmstrng
07-25-2007, 11:52 AM
plugs it is...now i need to set up an appointment with don...anyone know the best way to get in touch with him to set up a date? PM isnt working

dvrmstrng
07-25-2007, 11:56 AM
<--------really excited about first comp purchase

dvrmstrng
07-25-2007, 12:08 PM
i just decided...Germs it is...its my first set of comps...ever...i think ill be more than happy with Rainbow Germaniums off of 200rms...that an the extra money will go towards my new substage

dvrmstrng
07-25-2007, 12:08 PM
i see you looking don...you have a PM

dvrmstrng
07-25-2007, 12:35 PM
ah and now he is gone again haha...busy *** mofo over there

6spdcoupe
07-25-2007, 12:42 PM
i just decided...Germs it is...its my first set of comps...ever...i think ill be more than happy with Rainbow Germaniums off of 200rms...that an the extra money will go towards my new substage

Changed your mind in 16 minutes?


plugs it is...now i need to set up an appointment with don...anyone know the best way to get in touch with him to set up a date? PM isnt working

CrazedCat
07-25-2007, 12:45 PM
:laugh:

dvrmstrng
07-25-2007, 12:47 PM
yeah....sorry....im nervous Don cut me some slack

dvrmstrng
07-25-2007, 12:48 PM
and i figured for a first time component buyer i dont need to blow all my money..instead save some so i can work on a the substage and finally have a full system

Flipx99
07-25-2007, 01:16 PM
and i figured for a first time component buyer i dont need to blow all my money..instead save some so i can work on a the substage and finally have a full system

There's that misnomer again.

6spdcoupe
07-25-2007, 02:03 PM
yeah....sorry....im nervous Don cut me some slack

Ill check back in a few hours to see what you want then.

:)

6spdcoupe
07-25-2007, 02:04 PM
There's that misnomer again.

Yea, I really dont get this word substage ....

dvrmstrng
07-25-2007, 03:41 PM
its sorry about substage....im a n00b...i still wanna do the germs...when can i come?

Beerdrnkr
07-25-2007, 03:43 PM
Holy Jesus!!! He made a decision. You won't be sorry with the Germs.

dvrmstrng
07-25-2007, 03:45 PM
yes amen....germs it is...money left over to bribe my brother for his xxx 12

Flipx99
07-25-2007, 03:46 PM
Germs aren't a bad choice.

I would have went with the profi's...IMO that's pretty much the top ( besides the W175 but who can fit that?)

Platinum series is more than I want to spend.

CrazedCat
07-25-2007, 03:49 PM
Germs aren't a bad choice.

I would have went with the profi's...IMO that's pretty much the top ( besides the W175 but who can fit that?)

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! Let's not open this can 'o worms again!

dvrmstrng
07-25-2007, 04:20 PM
yeah please dont say that....its either germs and get a subwoofer....or get the profi's and not have a subwoofer...i rather take the germs and the woofer

Beerdrnkr
07-25-2007, 04:24 PM
Germs are more than enough to keep up with that sub. If the amp does rated power it should be perfect too, I'm running about 200w a piece also.

dvrmstrng
07-25-2007, 04:38 PM
just waiting on Don now...

WhoSayWho?
07-25-2007, 07:43 PM
So you are going with the Germs???? Hmmm...

Daishi
07-25-2007, 07:44 PM
the XT amp is pretty good it will do rated power. I have a Merlin series amp which has been great to me so far. I ordered the Germs already and will be installing them myself so dave when i get them installed which will prolly be this sunday if i get the germs in this week you can stop by my house and listen to them.

dvrmstrng
07-25-2007, 07:45 PM
haha why hmmm...think i should go a diff. direction...nothings getting done till next week so i got some stuff to think about...

side note...anyone know mounting depth of a 12 xxx older model..

dvrmstrng
07-25-2007, 07:46 PM
alright...i got work friday, rage against the machine saturday, staff softball game sunday and then virginia till thursday so hopefully youll have em in by now....i got some time to make a decision...

only thing diashi is im sure the germs will sound amazing..i got nothing to compare them to

WhoSayWho?
07-25-2007, 07:49 PM
I don't know man, it was my impression that you had thought this thing though. Oh well.

dvrmstrng
07-25-2007, 07:50 PM
no not at all....i did until i said i was getting germs and everyones like ehhhh but i got time

Daishi
07-25-2007, 07:51 PM
so... u can listen to them anyway lol.

dvrmstrng
07-25-2007, 07:53 PM
of course

WhoSayWho?
07-25-2007, 07:55 PM
You really should not pay any attention to me at the moment. I was just having a little fun at your expense. I honestly believe you will be happy with the Germs.

Just relax and know that you are going to have better components than most people ever have a chance of owning.

dvrmstrng
07-25-2007, 07:57 PM
alright profi phase plugs it is then:laugh:

WhoSayWho?
07-25-2007, 08:02 PM
If Don slits his wrists it is going to be your fault. :eyebrow:

Daishi
07-25-2007, 08:03 PM
no offense to don but why are you paying for installation of these speakers when i can do them for you?

mike11202
07-25-2007, 08:08 PM
I'd like to hear whichever set of rainbows you get to make my decision.. I'm in new jersey too

dvrmstrng
07-25-2007, 08:23 PM
i dk cause i figuere im gonna need MDF baffles and whatnot...and i figuere if its a $500+ investment i want to be able to rest assured knowing that if something goes wrong i can go back to him....

Don hasnt returned any PM's :crazy: of mine so there will be no wrist slitting

hes prolly thinking :suicide: though

6spdcoupe
07-25-2007, 09:01 PM
i dk cause i figuere im gonna need MDF baffles and whatnot...and i figuere if its a $500+ investment i want to be able to rest assured knowing that if something goes wrong i can go back to him....

Don hasnt returned any PM's :crazy: of mine so there will be no wrist slitting

hes prolly thinking :suicide: though


Don does work and needs some time to respond to PMs. Patience grasshopper. How can I schedule a day when you dont even know what you want yet? Silly boy. :) You also have someone above that is willing to install em for you.


And yes .. :suicide: has crossed my mind. :(

azbass
07-25-2007, 09:03 PM
:( don need help?

dvrmstrng
07-25-2007, 09:17 PM
the only thing that gets me going is the majority of people i tell im now getting germs are like eh shoulda stuck with regular profi's.....don you have a final PM before the decision is made

6spdcoupe
07-25-2007, 09:54 PM
Honestly Ill answer your PM then ... Phase Plugs. Not one of your options, but my opinion.

6spdcoupe
07-25-2007, 09:54 PM
:( don need help?

Are you contract killer now? :D




Sure .. If ya wanna.

CrazedCat
07-25-2007, 10:08 PM
side note...anyone know mounting depth of a 12 xxx older model..

Mounting depth is 8.125". Don't second guess this. It's exact. I just measured. :)

Daishi
07-25-2007, 11:07 PM
yo don did my germs ship yet :P lol

6spdcoupe
07-25-2007, 11:13 PM
Yes they did, yesterday IIRC. Lemme see if I can find tracking. :)

Daishi
07-25-2007, 11:47 PM
yeah just send me a pm when u get that :)

Flipx99
07-26-2007, 12:32 AM
Got new door panels for $25....

My profis may see action after all.

6spdcoupe
07-26-2007, 12:35 AM
:woot:

Flipx99
07-26-2007, 12:44 AM
Also got free kick panels...so I can try to execute a three way as planned.

What dome mid with shallow depth would you suggest? I may have 1 inch at most, but I can make a ring. I am worried about getting any sound way down by my feet in a truck.

dvrmstrng
07-26-2007, 12:48 AM
well i made my final decision....but im not gonna tell anyone till i take pics of don installing....if thats ok don?....so everyone hang in there...

Flipx99
07-26-2007, 12:51 AM
I will wait with baited breath....

slick rick
07-26-2007, 12:57 AM
I will wait with baited breath....

lol the kid flip flops like a politician over speakers, then won't tell us...at least its something Rainbow, RIGHT? :)

dvrmstrng
07-26-2007, 01:02 AM
lets just say you guys might be surprised....maybe hahahahaha

WhoSayWho?
07-26-2007, 01:03 AM
Got new door panels for $25....

My profis may see action after all.

Hell yeah!!!

Flipx99
07-26-2007, 01:13 AM
lol the kid flip flops like a politician over speakers, then won't tell us...at least its something Rainbow, RIGHT? :)

Notice my username :)



lets just say you guys might be surprised....maybe hahahahaha

Indeed.

Also got a free set of kick panels, if someone would suggest a good midrange to put down there with the tweeter.

dvrmstrng
07-26-2007, 04:02 AM
any guesses as to what is gonna go in?

Daishi
07-26-2007, 05:54 AM
Pyle Pro?

CrazedCat
07-26-2007, 10:46 AM
At this point Don = http://smiliesftw.com/x/e5cyippee.gif (http://smiliesftw.com)

dvrmstrng
07-26-2007, 11:33 AM
i really hope i wasnt too bad to deal with...just looking towards someone with extreme knowledge of a subject to help point me in the right direction...

my apologies if i was ever obnoxious or rude

Flipx99
07-26-2007, 11:37 AM
Nah....we all went through the same process.

It's a part of the deal when dropping +$500 on a set of speakers

dvrmstrng
07-26-2007, 11:39 AM
thanks for understanding dude

dvrmstrng
07-26-2007, 11:40 AM
crazed cat...where are you located

CrazedCat
07-26-2007, 11:40 AM
I'm just playin' with ya dude ;)

CrazedCat
07-26-2007, 11:41 AM
I'm in Colonia

6spdcoupe
07-26-2007, 12:01 PM
i really hope i wasnt too bad to deal with...just looking towards someone with extreme knowledge of a subject to help point me in the right direction...

my apologies if i was ever obnoxious or rude

Obnoxious or rude? Not at all. Quite polite to be honest.

Now repetitive or demanding is a different story. :p:

Flipx99
07-26-2007, 12:03 PM
Don, ygpm

dvrmstrng
07-26-2007, 12:06 PM
haha im sorry Don....hit me up via PM whenever you have any free time...


i think excited and nervous would be the best two words to go with

Flipx99
07-26-2007, 12:08 PM
It will be all good. Once you get everything installed, you can sit back and enjoy the show.

Just hope you don't run into install issues like me. I been trying to get these mids installed for 6 months.

dvrmstrng
07-26-2007, 12:17 PM
your right i hope Don doesn't run into install issues:naughty:

Flipx99
07-26-2007, 12:22 PM
Considering he is a professional and I am a newb, I doubt he would have any issues.

dvrmstrng
07-26-2007, 12:26 PM
so what do you think it is....germs...SLC265's....Profi phase

Daishi
07-26-2007, 12:30 PM
don dont forget my tracking number :P

Flipx99
07-26-2007, 12:32 PM
so what do you think it is....germs...SLC265's....Profi phase

If we start guessing, you may change your mind again.

dvrmstrng
07-26-2007, 12:32 PM
use PM's diashi.......argggg

Latina33
07-26-2007, 12:33 PM
so what do you think it is....germs...SLC265's....Profi phase

Dude, if you have the $$$ to go with Profi Phase, man, go with them!! :yumyum:

Flipx99
07-26-2007, 12:34 PM
use PM's diashi.......argggg

:laugh: :laugh:

dvrmstrng
07-26-2007, 12:46 PM
Dude, if you have the $$$ to go with Profi Phase, man, go with them!! :yumyum:



i already picked one....im just trying to see if someone can guess it

6spdcoupe
07-26-2007, 01:43 PM
Guessing game is not fun. Although how bout I take your money and make You guess whats going in? :D:D:D

dvrmstrng
07-26-2007, 02:19 PM
You know whats going in Don...didnt you get the PM...shhhh your lips are sealed

CrazedCat
07-26-2007, 02:27 PM
Did that decision PM have "Final Answer." at the end of it?

Flipx99
07-26-2007, 02:59 PM
lol

dvrmstrng
07-26-2007, 04:10 PM
yessir.....still waiting on a response from Don to get the 100% ok go

3.5Max6spd
07-26-2007, 04:23 PM
yessir.....still waiting on a response from Don to get the 100% ok go
I didnt realize Don had a set of CS265 Profi Phase in stock...thats not a bad route whatsoever if you are loking to book your install asap.:naughty:

dvrmstrng
07-26-2007, 05:31 PM
dont do this to me...i thught we were perfect on what we talked about

dvrmstrng
07-26-2007, 05:31 PM
im still waiting on a PM from him though

6spdcoupe
07-26-2007, 05:55 PM
Profi Plug it is !!

dvrmstrng
07-26-2007, 05:57 PM
no no...

dvrmstrng
07-26-2007, 05:58 PM
hey 6spcoupe PM me!

Flipx99
07-26-2007, 06:03 PM
Don't be a *****....get the profi plugs....

dvrmstrng
07-26-2007, 06:04 PM
whose says i wasnt getting something better than profi plugs?

Flipx99
07-26-2007, 06:07 PM
If you got the depth, I would do the CS....I don't have 4" though

dvrmstrng
07-26-2007, 06:12 PM
i dk if i do....don and manny both said it would be fine though...

Flipx99
07-26-2007, 06:18 PM
The tweeter is in my avatar....

dvrmstrng
07-26-2007, 06:23 PM
nice

dvrmstrng
07-27-2007, 01:17 AM
no word from don yet...still hanging in there

WhoSayWho?
07-27-2007, 01:20 AM
Wow Dv, a 16 page thread on what Rainbows you should choose:laugh:

dvrmstrng
07-27-2007, 11:32 AM
i know i know...were not done yet...still waiting on a PM from Don

Daishi
07-27-2007, 02:24 PM
hes just doin it to get his post count up :\

dvrmstrng
07-27-2007, 03:37 PM
ehh whats post count mean anyway

Flipx99
07-28-2007, 05:39 PM
Tell ya what....

If you get the profi phase plugs and don't like em. I will trade you my profi kicks. I think yours are about ~$20 more.

dvrmstrng
07-29-2007, 11:26 PM
haha azbass knows what speakers they are....if you bribe him with moniez he might tell you

Flipx99
07-30-2007, 12:48 AM
I don't care that much. I am sure you will kiss and tell.

adas
07-30-2007, 01:53 AM
Omg man.....poor don!

Its fun bein a teen....but it didn't take me 14 pages to figure out I wanted Profi's:laugh:

They are amazing.....too bad right now mine are getting 90w with a rockford punch amp:suicide: The bass is crazy with the regulars.....somehow in my door panels they are perfect, they play as loud as a single 10" all the way down to about 38hz....:eek: then slope down quick from there. I almost want to get them metered on the TL by themselves:laugh:

dvrmstrng
07-30-2007, 06:27 PM
haha i know i know....thats so nice to hear that your impressed with midbass at 90watts each

Daishi
08-01-2007, 04:33 PM
dave i got my germs in they look real nice im gonna be doin the installation on them tomorrow maybe u can listen to em soon.

dvrmstrng
08-02-2007, 11:33 AM
cant wait....im excited about my decision as well...cant wait to get them...post up some pics!

dvrmstrng
08-02-2007, 06:51 PM
well the speakers are on there way...if anyone still cares which ones i ended up picking check out the new sig...pics for everyone when they arrive....and anyone can help the install or come have a listen if youd like

Daishi
08-03-2007, 08:36 AM
In order to show pics of the woofers id have to take the door panels off again :\ i can show pics of the tweeter mounting if u guys want. and besides dave u saw a pic of the woofer that i sent you in my phone :P

ksauers
08-15-2007, 09:35 PM
I haven't been on here for a while. This thread was hilarious. I'm surprised Don survived.

6spdcoupe
08-16-2007, 12:18 AM
I haven't been on here for a while. This thread was hilarious. I'm surprised Don survived.

It was easy to survive, I didnt have to do a thing ! :D

dvrmstrng
08-16-2007, 09:24 PM
no love lost i hope don....

6spdcoupe
08-16-2007, 09:41 PM
None at all bud, saved me some trouble in fact. :)