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Blackcharger06
07-22-2007, 12:26 PM
Hey guys I finally got my iva w205 with my pxa-h701. Everything sounds great, the only problem I have is, when I play dvd's the bass is very very low. Cd's hd radio stuff from the changer mp3's are fine. For some reason though dvd's have very little bass out of my sub. I get good mid bass from inside the car but I popped my trunk and my sub is barely moving. I played around with the endless amount of settings but couldn't figure it out.
I posted on here cause god knows I'm a noob when it comes to this stuff. Does anyone know how to get more thump when playing dvd's.

Blackcharger06
07-23-2007, 10:56 PM
Nobody? Come on I see a lot of you guys use this thing in your cars, what did ya do to bring up the bass. Setting the sub at +15 just isn't cutting it.:fro:

jluv
07-24-2007, 07:25 PM
Nobody? Come on I see a lot of you guys use this thing in your cars, what did ya do to bring up the bass. Setting the sub at +15 just isn't cutting it.:fro:

I haven't run into that problem. Have you tried several different DVDs?

There are several different settings that have to do with the DVD output. I am at work right now, but should be able to mess with mine and offer some better advice later this evening (if I remember). Good luck.

Blackcharger06
07-24-2007, 08:23 PM
I haven't run into that problem. Have you tried several different DVDs?

There are several different settings that have to do with the DVD output. I am at work right now, but should be able to mess with mine and offer some better advice later this evening (if I remember). Good luck.

Yea there are tons of settings with this thing. The only thing I can come up with is the fact that I don't have a center channel so it gets confused, idunno. Get back to me when you can, thanx.

:fro:

jluv
07-25-2007, 01:01 AM
Yea there are tons of settings with this thing. The only thing I can come up with is the fact that I don't have a center channel so it gets confused, idunno. Get back to me when you can, thanx.

:fro:

Try the following settings, although I don't know why they woud only affect bass and not overall output.

Dolby PLII/Rear Fill
Dolby PLII/Rear - Off
Center Width - Off

Speaker Select
Center - Off

Multichannel Setup
Bi-phantom +5
Rear Mix - Off
Listening Mode - Max

Speaker Setup
Center - Off

PCM Mode
2 channel

Defeat
Off

Media Xpander
Off

See if that helps. Seems like it has to do with the recording of your DVDs more than anything.

Blackcharger06
07-25-2007, 11:57 AM
Try the following settings, although I don't know why they woud only affect bass and not overall output.

Dolby PLII/Rear Fill
Dolby PLII/Rear - Off
Center Width - Off

Speaker Select
Center - Off

Multichannel Setup
Bi-phantom +5
Rear Mix - Off
Listening Mode - Max

Speaker Setup
Center - Off

PCM Mode
2 channel

Defeat
Off

Media Xpander
Off

See if that helps. Seems like it has to do with the recording of your DVDs more than anything.

hey Thanx for posting so fast, I tried all those settings and they work great. I had most of them already. The problem I run into is, that is fine for a pcm stereo file. On most of the dvds I have, like the movie cars, or any concert that I have, there is a 5.1 option. When I select that option that sub puts out next to nothing. I don't have a center channel, but I was under the impression that that is what the bi phantom takes care of. It seems when I put it in 5.1 mode more bass comes from the speakers but not much if anything from the subs. I called up both alpine canada, and usa and they said that is pretty much a bi product of the system. There has to be a way to get it to work, and I'm sure it's something stupid like a button or something. Thanx again for giving me some different settings to try.

:fro: :fro:

jluv
07-25-2007, 03:21 PM
hey Thanx for posting so fast, I tried all those settings and they work great. I had most of them already. The problem I run into is, that is fine for a pcm stereo file. On most of the dvds I have, like the movie cars, or any concert that I have, there is a 5.1 option. When I select that option that sub puts out next to nothing. I don't have a center channel, but I was under the impression that that is what the bi phantom takes care of. It seems when I put it in 5.1 mode more bass comes from the speakers but not much if anything from the subs. I called up both alpine canada, and usa and they said that is pretty much a bi product of the system. There has to be a way to get it to work, and I'm sure it's something stupid like a button or something. Thanx again for giving me some different settings to try.

:fro: :fro:

Okay, well, I know exactly what you are talking about now. When you select 5.1 on the DVD menu then you need to change the setting on your H701 to:

Dolby PLII/Rear Fill
PLII Movie
or
PLII Music

Just remember to set it back if you aren't playing 5.1 material (or have presets for each).

And what they have told you is correct. Even with the correct setting chosen, 5.1 playback is MUCH quieter than stereo playback. I noticed this from day 1, and it seems to be the case with every DVD I have tried. Luckily, there is a fix for this in the settings as well.

DVD Level
Dolby Digital - (?)
Dolby PLII - (?)
DTS - (?)
PCM - (?)

On mine, I have the first three set to +5, and PCM set to 0. Whataver you choose as the PCM setting, make sure to set your gains on your amps around that setting. Then, by making the settings for the 5.1 formats much higher (+5 is the max, but you could set the PCM at -2 or something like that if you really wanted), you will compensate for the lower volume and come close to making them even. Again, just make sure you set your gains on your amps after you choose the PCM setting.

Blackcharger06
07-25-2007, 07:07 PM
Okay, well, I know exactly what you are talking about now. When you select 5.1 on the DVD menu then you need to change the setting on your H701 to:

Dolby PLII/Rear Fill
PLII Movie
or
PLII Music

Just remember to set it back if you aren't playing 5.1 material (or have presets for each).

And what they have told you is correct. Even with the correct setting chosen, 5.1 playback is MUCH quieter than stereo playback. I noticed this from day 1, and it seems to be the case with every DVD I have tried. Luckily, there is a fix for this in the settings as well.

DVD Level
Dolby Digital - (?)
Dolby PLII - (?)
DTS - (?)
PCM - (?)

On mine, I have the first three set to +5, and PCM set to 0. Whataver you choose as the PCM setting, make sure to set your gains on your amps around that setting. Then, by making the settings for the 5.1 formats much higher (+5 is the max, but you could set the PCM at -2 or something like that if you really wanted), you will compensate for the lower volume and come close to making them even. Again, just make sure you set your gains on your amps after you choose the PCM setting.

Thanx for the reply. I had the first 3 settings on +5 and pcm set to 0. I read a post about how to set the gains with the processor, on another forum. I saw those other setttings I'll have to give them a shot. If I use the movie or music setting does it increase the bass to the sub? I've got 3 presets now. One flat , one for a basic sq set up and preset 3 is sq with more bass.

I'll use the movie or music setting for one of the other presets and see how it goes. I did notice that if I put pcm at +5 is really pounds hard. I've done that some times so that I just have to put the volume at 11 instead of 20 or to get a lot of juice out of it. After having it for a week now I've put the pcm level back at 0 to save my hearing. Thanx again for your help.

Brian

Blackcharger06
07-25-2007, 11:50 PM
Ok so I tried the settings and this is what I came up with. If I put in a dvd, and select 5.1 mode the bass goes way way down, not out of the speakers, just out of the sub. No matter what settings, double movie, music rear fill little to no bass comes from the sub. When I put the dvd in stereo mode on the dvd menu it self it says it's in lcpm mode on the info screen.

When dolby in the head unit screen is turned to off, then the pcm dvd level is the only option that changes over all sound level. If I put the dolby mode in rear fill, movie or music then the only function in the dvd level that adjusts the sound level is dobly digital.

After playing with the settings I came up with a few conclusions.
1. The head unit can take a lpcm sound track and make it a 5.1, and preserve the low bass.
2. The head unit and the processor fight each other so if you choose 5.1 in the head unit the processor for some reason doesn't play the subwoofer audio tracks.
3. The only way to get a 5.1 soundtrack to play on my current system is to leave the audio option on the disk menu to stereo because the processor will take care of the rest as long as I pick one of the dolby settings. I have sin city which has a dts soundtrack I'll give that a try and see if it makes a difference.

I'm sure I'm missing something. I'm still very very green when it comes to car audio, but I'm sure at some point I'll get to the bottom of it.:fro: :fro:

docutech
07-25-2007, 11:56 PM
what if?:

you turn off the processor?
will you still be able hear sound?

OR

If you have a bass knob, crank that mutha!

dunno, just fishin here...

jluv
07-26-2007, 10:08 AM
Thanx for the reply. I had the first 3 settings on +5 and pcm set to 0.

That is good.


I read a post about how to set the gains with the processor, on another forum. I saw those other setttings I'll have to give them a shot.

Get yourself a DMM and some test tones and set your amp gains correctly with the PCM set and then leave the PCM setting there. If you increase it, you are throwing off the work you did setting your gains.


If I use the movie or music setting does it increase the bass to the sub? I've got 3 presets now. One flat , one for a basic sq set up and preset 3 is sq with more bass.

It doesn't necessarily just increase bass to the sub. If you select 5.1 in your DVD menu, then the DVD material is going to be played in the 5.1 format. Sending that formatted material through your processor into PCM mode is not ideal. And vice versa. If you set the DVD menu to play in stereo, you do not want to have your processor in 5.1 mode. Think of it like this. Let's say (hypothetically) that you have a truck with two gas tanks and two motors, one diesel and one for regular gas. You have a switch on the dash for either. If you fill the tank with diesel, you need to set the switch on the dash accordingly. If you fill it with regular gas, you need to set the switch to regular gas. Same goes for your system. If you choose stero PCM on the DVD, then set your processor to PCM mode. If you set the DVD menu to 5.1, you are feeding your processor a 5.1 signal, and need to switch it on the processor menu as well.n Doing opposite will result in lower overall output across the baord. You may be perceiving this as lower bass, I don't know.


I'll use the movie or music setting for one of the other presets and see how it goes. I did notice that if I put pcm at +5 is really pounds hard. I've done that some times so that I just have to put the volume at 11 instead of 20 or to get a lot of juice out of it. After having it for a week now I've put the pcm level back at 0 to save my hearing. Thanx again for your help.

Brian

When you increase the PCM level, you are just raising the starting point of output that gets sent to your amps. You shouldn't adjust it once you've set your gains. You can set that at -5, 0, or +5 and get the same output based on where you set your gains afterward. The whole purpose of being able to set those levels differently is so you can correctly match the PCM output to the Dolby or DTS output. This is why I suggested setting the PCM to 0 and the Dolby and DTS to +5. If you set the PCM to +5, then you won't be able to get the others to get loud enough. Also, you may want to revisit your gains and set them so that you get max volume at higher than 20. The Alpine head unit goes up to 35, so ideally you want to have more room between very low volume and very high volume. You'd probably want max without clipping to be somewhere between 24 and 30. 11 is insane, and with each increasing number from 1-11, you increase the volume dramatically, and don't have as many different volume levels to choose from.

jluv
07-26-2007, 10:39 AM
Ok so I tried the settings and this is what I came up with. If I put in a dvd, and select 5.1 mode the bass goes way way down, not out of the speakers, just out of the sub. No matter what settings, double movie, music rear fill little to no bass comes from the sub. When I put the dvd in stereo mode on the dvd menu it self it says it's in lcpm mode on the info screen.

When dolby in the head unit screen is turned to off, then the pcm dvd level is the only option that changes over all sound level. If I put the dolby mode in rear fill, movie or music then the only function in the dvd level that adjusts the sound level is dobly digital.

It's black and white man. If you set the DVD menu to stereo, choose PCM in the processor settings. If you choose 5.1 in the DVD menu, set the processor to Dolby PLII for music or movie (doesn't really matter much between those two). Doing it flip-flopped is all wrong and will have significantly less output.

5.1 playback from the W205/H701 combo is significantly quieter than stereo. This is why you can adjust those levels on the front end, then set your gains, and then leave it alone.

In general 5.1 playback is going to be quieter than stereo in any circumstance simply because you don't have multiple speakers playing all of the material at the same time. You only have two separate channels with stereo, so everything that happens on the left comes from all left speakers. Everything that happens on the right comes from all right speakers. All low frequencies from either channel come through the sub. With 5.1, each speaker only plays a portion of the action. Most of the material comes from the front speakers. Your rears play very little, and your sub only plays material that was formatted during the recording process to come from the sub. Play something with big explosions, and you should notice the sub comeing to life at those times. Don't expect it to be anything like a rap song on the radio or a CD. It's just not going to be that way. You might need to adjust the subwoofer setting all the way up to 15 when playing back movies in 5.1 to be happy, but there again, to get any result from doing that, you need to leave you subwoofer setting lower than that (maybe 8 or 10) for playing music, or you won't have anywhere to increase. It's all about headroom. Leave yourself room to increase these levels when needed.


After playing with the settings I came up with a few conclusions.
1. The head unit can take a lpcm sound track and make it a 5.1, and preserve the low bass.

No, it cannot.


2. The head unit and the processor fight each other so if you choose 5.1 in the head unit the processor for some reason doesn't play the subwoofer audio tracks.

That is not true.


3. The only way to get a 5.1 soundtrack to play on my current system is to leave the audio option on the disk menu to stereo because the processor will take care of the rest as long as I pick one of the dolby settings. I have sin city which has a dts soundtrack I'll give that a try and see if it makes a difference.

If you leave the DVD menu setting on stereo, then you are not getting true 5.1 from your processor. You need to match the DVD menu seting to the processor setting.


I'm sure I'm missing something. I'm still very very green when it comes to car audio, but I'm sure at some point I'll get to the bottom of it.:fro: :fro:

It is somewhat complicated, but I'm doing my best to help you understand how it works. It's tough sometimes to do that in text, whereas if we were both sitting in front of the unit I could show you what I am talking about visually and give you real examples of how the settings work.

In the end, I think you are expecting more bass output in 5.1 than what you will get. In order to make it as much like 5.1 in a home, you need to set things correctly, and this includes starting with your PCM level at 0 (or maybe even -1 or -2), and then setting your gains correctly with test tones and a DMM, and then maxing out your Dolby and DTS level at +5. If you do this first, and then follow the rest of the settings I laid out for you, you should be happier.

jluv
07-26-2007, 10:42 AM
By the way, you are using a digital optical cable from the head unit to the processor, right? If not, this whole conversation has been for nothing. lol

Blackcharger06
07-26-2007, 11:45 AM
Hey man, thanx for the posts, I'm sure it's frustrating trying to invent the wheel. I understand what are you are saying about the gains. I have the JL audio cleansweep cd with test tones and I set everything with pcm level at 0, using a volt meter.

I also understand that if I want dobly I need to pick it in the dvd menu and set the processor accordingly. I read on page 48 or the pxa manual today that if you have the rear speakers set for large that you get no subwoofer out put. I didn't notice much of a difference, when setting my speakers to small or none, but oh well.

If I leave the dvd menu in stereo mode, and then pick dolby movie or music is does mimic that setting or effect like a home stereo in a box would, but I do understand that I am not getting true 5.1. I also understand that 5.1 is a lot quiter and little or nothing comes from the rear speakers and that the sub response is nothing like that of a rap or hip hop song.

I'm just being *****y and what more bass out of the sub :) And don't worry yes I am using the optical out of the head unit to the processor. At least I am doing something right. Sound issues aside I still need to figure out what is wrong with my cd changer. I got it used and it has a dent, some times it;s a source some times it;s gone. I threw in a new ai net cable the other day and it worked fine until today. Then it frooze and then disappeared as a source. Time to get a new changer **** internet oh well.

Thanx again for your help

jluv
07-26-2007, 12:04 PM
I read on page 48 or the pxa manual today that if you have the rear speakers set for large that you get no subwoofer out put. I didn't notice much of a difference, when setting my speakers to small or none, but oh well.



Really? That can't be right. I have my rear speakers set to large and I definitely get output from the sub. I'm at work so I obviously don't have the manual with me, but when I opened it from Alpine's website, page 48 was the very last page with warranty disclaimer stuff.

http://vault.alpine-usa.com/products/documents/OM%20PXA-H701.pdf

Strange...

Blackcharger06
07-26-2007, 12:12 PM
Really? That can't be right. I have my rear speakers set to large and I definitely get output from the sub. I'm at work so I obviously don't have the manual with me, but when I opened it from Alpine's website, page 48 was the very last page with warranty disclaimer stuff.

http://vault.alpine-usa.com/products/documents/OM%20PXA-H701.pdf

Strange...

Page 22 sorry. I was looking at the iva w205 book.

When using the PRO LOGIC II, if the rear speaker is
set to "LARGE", then there will be no output from the
sub-woofer

jluv
07-26-2007, 12:15 PM
Page 22 sorry. I was looking at the iva w205 book.

When using the PRO LOGIC II, if the rear speaker is
set to "LARGE", then there will be no output from the
sub-woofer

Okay, so only when using Pro Logic II. Still, I'm pretty sure mine still has output from the sub, and I have always had my rears set to large. I'm going to mess around with it during my lunch break.

jluv
07-26-2007, 12:22 PM
Either I am blind or the online manual is different from the printed one. I can't find it anywhere on page 22 where it says that. :confused:

Blackcharger06
07-26-2007, 12:39 PM
Either I am blind or the online manual is different from the printed one. I can't find it anywhere on page 22 where it says that. :confused:
Yikes my b, your right. On the Iva w205 book it is on page 46 on the very bottom. On the link you just posted(pxa-h701 manual) it is on page 22, right above where it says adjusting speaker levels, in the notes section in the last paragraph. Either way they are wrong you still get stuff out of it.

jluv
07-26-2007, 01:47 PM
Yikes my b, your right. On the Iva w205 book it is on page 46 on the very bottom. On the link you just posted(pxa-h701 manual) it is on page 22, right above where it says adjusting speaker levels, in the notes section in the last paragraph. Either way they are wrong you still get stuff out of it.


Oh, I see. I was going by page 22 of the Adobe attachment, when it is actually page 24 of the manual. Silly me.

But ya, that is definitely wrong. I just got back from messing with mine on my lunch break, and the subs definitely play with the rear speakers set to large. In fact, they don't play any louder from what I can tell if the rear speakers are set to small.


I also confirmed what I've been sayting about matching the DVD menu setting with the processor setting. I popped in an Eagles concert DVD that allows you to choose PCM stereo or DTS 5.1. Wit the DVD menu set to PCM, and the processor set to 5.1, output is terrible. When I switched them both, same results. Now, when the DVD menu is set to DTS 5.1, and the processor set to Dolby PLII Movie, the output is decent, and you can tell it is 5.1, based on the instruments and the applause. The volume is still quieter than when I have both the DVD menu and processor settings to PCM, so I may go in and reset my gains using the PCM setting at -2 or even -3. I'll keep the PLII settings at +5, of course. I'd really like them to be closely matched without having to jack with the setings over and over. Anyway, my sub output is not bad. I don't know why you are experiencing that.

Also, for what it's worth, I saw in the manual where it says that the PLII music setting is good for playing two-channel stereo signal and getting a "simulated" surround output, meaning you can take any old CD and get close to 5.1 from it. But I tried that, and did not get those kind of results. I don't notice an audible difference in the PLII Movie setting and the PLII Music setting, whether I play 5.1 material or stereo material. No matter what, when trying to play a two-channel signal with the processor set to anything but PCM, I get very poor output.

Obviously, the loudest output will come from choosing stereo in the DVD menu and PCM in the processor menu. I still use this when watching concert DVDs if I am more in the mood to just rock out vs getting the realistic surround experience.

Blackcharger06
07-26-2007, 02:36 PM
I knew I was right I just had the pages fubar. Idunno why they put that in the book if it's not true. All the stuff I have on dvd is dolby not DTS, so maybe that makes a difference but I highly doubt it. I guess I could check the gain settings on the bass amp 500/1 but I used a volt meter with pcm set at 0.

I think I'm just going to do what you do and leave it in pcm mode. I'm downloading a torrent of the eagles dvd right now hell feeezes over which should really be able to show the flaws in my system. Thanx again.

jluv
07-26-2007, 03:02 PM
I knew I was right I just had the pages fubar. Idunno why they put that in the book if it's not true. All the stuff I have on dvd is dolby not DTS, so maybe that makes a difference but I highly doubt it. I guess I could check the gain settings on the bass amp 500/1 but I used a volt meter with pcm set at 0.

I think I'm just going to do what you do and leave it in pcm mode. I'm downloading a torrent of the eagles dvd right now hell feeezes over which should really be able to show the flaws in my system. Thanx again.


Cool.

One suggestion I have if you are going to be setting the gains again is to set them with the head unit volume higher. This way you get the desired voltage (and correct gain setting) at a higher volume. This way you can have more room and flexibility with your volume control. Mine is at desired voltage when playing test tones at 25 (out of 35). Some people would go higher, maybe 28 or even 30.

Playing well recorded concert DVDs in 5.1, while not as loud, can still be awesome. You really get separation between the different instruments, and the crowd is all around you. If you close your eyes, it really puts you on the front row. But ya, for getting loud, PCM mode is going to do better for you.

AppleBonker
07-26-2007, 06:50 PM
I guess I'll chime in on this one for a sec. Sorry if this gets long. I have an Alpine IVA-D100 with the 701 (but unfortunately my stereo has been acting up a bit lately so I've got things kinda pulled apart right now so I can't confirm what I am about to say - this is more from my knowledge of home stereo). But Dolby ProLogic is not a true surround sound format. What it does is simulate surround sound out of a two-channel source. If you are running a DVD in Dolby Digital or DTS, that is not a 2-channel audio source, so ProLogic has nothing to do with this discussion. Obviously you need the optical cable to transmit the digital signal from the HU to the processor. I'm pretty sure that the HU decodes the audio signal (from the compressed Dolby Digital/DTS format) and sends the uncompressed data to the processor. The processor then outputs the signal via the analog RCA cables to your amps (pretty sure this is what the two units do without looking at the manuals - pressed for time right now). So you need to make sure you have the HU set to have digital output on and you want to select Bitstream as the output (not sure exactly where this is in your particular head units). This will then send the decompressed digital audio signal to the 701. I'm pretty sure the PCM and Dolby ProLogic selections are only for 2-channel audio. Although, if they're not, you would want it to be on PCM which would take in the full audio signal (sidenote: PCM transmits the full digital audio signal at a much higher bandwidth than allowed by DVDs, hence the compression with DD or DTS. The compression is used with DD and DTS to allow a full discrete 5.1-channel signal which wouldn't be possible to stream from a DVD with PCM, but this is possible on HD-DVD and Blu-Ray due to their increased bandwidth - which is one of the benefits of using this media).

Once I have my car fully back together I will check everything out and post an update. I just wanted to clear up some of the confusion between DD/DTS and Dolby ProLogic. If this has been completely unclear, let me know and I will try to explain better.

Blackcharger06
07-26-2007, 07:01 PM
Cool.

One suggestion I have if you are going to be setting the gains again is to set them with the head unit volume higher. This way you get the desired voltage (and correct gain setting) at a higher volume. This way you can have more room and flexibility with your volume control. Mine is at desired voltage when playing test tones at 25 (out of 35). Some people would go higher, maybe 28 or even 30.

Playing well recorded concert DVDs in 5.1, while not as loud, can still be awesome. You really get separation between the different instruments, and the crowd is all around you. If you close your eyes, it really puts you on the front row. But ya, for getting loud, PCM mode is going to do better for you.

Hey man thanx again for the info. I set the gains when the head unit was at 26. I heard from a few people that distortion can sometimes occur with this unit at a volume higher then 26. I figure that is high enough to give me good head room. As for the dts, dd and dobly pro logic there is a pretty well defined glossary in the book, and yup it says pretty much what you said about the 3. Confusing yes? But i'm sure with 3 audio nutz looking at it, some sense will come of it. :fro: :fro:

jluv
07-26-2007, 10:06 PM
I guess I'll chime in on this one for a sec. Sorry if this gets long. I have an Alpine IVA-D100 with the 701 (but unfortunately my stereo has been acting up a bit lately so I've got things kinda pulled apart right now so I can't confirm what I am about to say - this is more from my knowledge of home stereo). But Dolby ProLogic is not a true surround sound format. What it does is simulate surround sound out of a two-channel source. If you are running a DVD in Dolby Digital or DTS, that is not a 2-channel audio source, so ProLogic has nothing to do with this discussion. Obviously you need the optical cable to transmit the digital signal from the HU to the processor. I'm pretty sure that the HU decodes the audio signal (from the compressed Dolby Digital/DTS format) and sends the uncompressed data to the processor. The processor then outputs the signal via the analog RCA cables to your amps (pretty sure this is what the two units do without looking at the manuals - pressed for time right now). So you need to make sure you have the HU set to have digital output on and you want to select Bitstream as the output (not sure exactly where this is in your particular head units). This will then send the decompressed digital audio signal to the 701. I'm pretty sure the PCM and Dolby ProLogic selections are only for 2-channel audio. Although, if they're not, you would want it to be on PCM which would take in the full audio signal (sidenote: PCM transmits the full digital audio signal at a much higher bandwidth than allowed by DVDs, hence the compression with DD or DTS. The compression is used with DD and DTS to allow a full discrete 5.1-channel signal which wouldn't be possible to stream from a DVD with PCM, but this is possible on HD-DVD and Blu-Ray due to their increased bandwidth - which is one of the benefits of using this media).

Once I have my car fully back together I will check everything out and post an update. I just wanted to clear up some of the confusion between DD/DTS and Dolby ProLogic. If this has been completely unclear, let me know and I will try to explain better.

You're right, but I was under the impression all along that if you sent a Dolby or DTS signal (set in the DVD menu) to the processor (which is set to Dolby PLII) that it will not try to imitate a 5.1 signal using the stereo signal given, but instead will still process and play the 5.1 signal as intended. Like, you give me dough, and I turn it into bread and make a sandwich, but if you give me bread, it just makes my job easier and I can still make the sandwich. Ya know, I may be totally wrong on this one. I've been running my setup for a year, and have played with it a lot, but I may have had the wrong idea.

So, are you saying that you can set it to 5.1 in the DVD menu, and then keep the processor on PCM mode, and you will still get true 5.1 playback? I was messing wirth mine again a little while ago, and if i have it set this way I still get decent output, which conflicts what I said earlier. However, no doubt about it, if I set the DVD menu to PCM and the processor menu to PLII, the output is terrible. By the way, I did notice that if I have it set this way, there is no sub output with the rear speakers set to large. I just never run mine with the DVD set to PCM and then processor set to PLII, because the overall output is crap. If what you say is true, shouldn't it "simulate" surround sound and still sound decent?

It's all so confusing to me now. I just know that if I set the DVD menu to PCM, and the processor to PCM, it sounds great, but it's not 5.1. If I set the DVD menu to 5.1, and the processor to 5.1, it sounds great, although the volume needs to be adjusted as I mentioned earlier with the whole DVD level adjustments.

I have never seen any kind of setting for "Bitstream" on the W200, W205, or the H701. You lost me there.

On my 7.1 home theater system, I play 5.1 movies on Dolby Pro Logic IIx. It "converts" them into 7.1. Sometimes I use DTS if the movie was recorded that way. As far as I can see, there is not a setting in the H701 to choose DTS or plain Dolby Digital as the playback format. It is PLII or PCM. I'm willing to learn if there is a better way than what I've been doing.

AppleBonker
07-27-2007, 12:09 AM
It's definitely possible that I'm wrong. Dolby PLII should output a "5.1" signal from a stereo input. That's what PLII was designed to do. PL is just front right, front left, center and one rear channel if I'm not mistaken. The bitstream setting is in my HU, according to the manual, but I'm not at my car right now so I cannot confirm this. What I think happens (again, I may be way off the mark here), is that regardless of how you have the 701 set, when you send the DD or DTS signal to the processor it sends it out as such, regardless of the PCM/PL setting (this would make the PL/PCM setting only for a stereo input). My car wont be fully back together until sometime next week hopefully, so I cannot confirm yet. Either way, you wouldn't want the processor to "simulate" 5.1 output off a stereo signal if you are sending it a true 5.1 signal. It should process that 5.1 signal as is. Once again, I'm going off my home theater knowledge, but I would be very surprised if the Alpine car units processed things significantly different, as this would go against everything that these settings are meant to do. I will look into this more critically. I enjoy my home stereo more than my car, so that is where my focus/information lies.

It is also certainly possible that the car unit processes sound differently from a home theater receiver (actually I would hope it would as the home setting gets far more advanced than most cars could ever hope to achieve). So it may not have as good a DD/DTS decoder as a DVD player/home receiver would. This might explain the lack of volume from the sub out of this setup. I set my sub on my home setup based off of DVD movies, but I wouldn't do this for my car as the primary signal would be from my iPod and not from a movie (although I do play them in my car). I will try to dig deeper and come up with more useful info for all of you. If anyone else has knowledge on this, please back me up or prove me wrong. :)

Edit: I just re-read your post, and I think you're right about the bread analogy. So that means it shouldn't matter if you have it set to PCM or DPL, the decoding should still be the same.

2nd Edit: You should probably use DTS if it's available on a DVD (as most will agree this is a better compression than DD). I wouldn't use DPLII if I were you. Your receiver should be able to make a DD 5.1 signal into a 7.1 signal if you have a front, surround and rear surround speakers (although this is very difficult to achieve in a home theater without having an absolutely ideal room setup). I would highly recommend staying away from PL in a home setup if you can avoid it. I would definitely go with the DD or DTS signal if possible. And if you do have 7 speakers and a sub, I would go with Dolby Digital EX or DTS-ES if available (which are encoded with 6.1 discrete channels - better than taking a stereo signal with DPLII and simulating a 6.1/7.1 setup).

Blackcharger06
07-27-2007, 01:00 AM
Wow well my head is ready to explode ;) That's a lot of into to digest. I will agree with ya guys that the processor has an auto setting. What I mean is, I don't have to select anything the processor, jus the dvd menu. If I pick DD then that is the dvd level that I can change. If I leave it in stereo mode then PCM is the level that can be adjusted. Now if I pick Dolby PLII music or movie then yes then that is the level that I can change in the DVD level menu.

So the rear settings are true huh? So alpine is right and I am wrong huh. Oh well. I'll leave my rear's on large anyways. It's going to take awhile to figure out all the bells and whistles of this thing. Wait until I start talking about to ya guys about digital time correction. :) this is going to be one long tread. :fro: :fro:

Brian

jluv
07-27-2007, 08:26 AM
Edit: I just re-read your post, and I think you're right about the bread analogy. So that means it shouldn't matter if you have it set to PCM or DPL, the decoding should still be the same.

2nd Edit: You should probably use DTS if it's available on a DVD (as most will agree this is a better compression than DD). I wouldn't use DPLII if I were you. Your receiver should be able to make a DD 5.1 signal into a 7.1 signal if you have a front, surround and rear surround speakers (although this is very difficult to achieve in a home theater without having an absolutely ideal room setup). I would highly recommend staying away from PL in a home setup if you can avoid it. I would definitely go with the DD or DTS signal if possible. And if you do have 7 speakers and a sub, I would go with Dolby Digital EX or DTS-ES if available (which are encoded with 6.1 discrete channels - better than taking a stereo signal with DPLII and simulating a 6.1/7.1 setup).

I always use DTS when possible. Very few movies are encoded in 6.1, but a few that are (Devil's Rejects, Sin City, etc) sound awesome. Besides that, I use PLIIx, which takes the 5.1 signal and makes it 7.1. It sounds pretty good.

Ya, my head unit definitely doesn't have the Bitstream setting you mentioned. And I think you guys may be right about leaving the processor setting to PCM and just setting the DVD menu to 5.1. I jammed all the way to work like that this morning (the Eagles concert DVD still in the deck). There is still more overall output, and definitely more bass output if the DVD is set to PCM, but that is much like my home theater when I play CDs, it always sounds best on the "all channel stereo" setting.

Blackcharger06
07-29-2007, 12:41 AM
Glad I finally got to the bottom of this :) Hey did you have any trouble hooking everything up. I see ya got just about everything you can hook up to the iva w205

jluv
07-30-2007, 10:11 AM
Glad I finally got to the bottom of this :) Hey did you have any trouble hooking everything up. I see ya got just about everything you can hook up to the iva w205

I've got everything I know of to add. I would add more if I could, lol. I am still waiting for the new Blackbird to come out. The most difficult part was getting the deck back into the dash. There isn't much extra room back there in my Explorer. And you have to chain the HD radio, Sirius, and processor in a certain order (Ai-Net) to make it work right. I still haven't been able to use the Bluetooth to it's fullest because the phone I have (Samsung) doesn't sync up real well.

I started having problems with my W205 this weekend. It's doing some really strange stuff. The Ipod shows to be playing, but there is no audio. In the "Visual EQ" section, sometimes it allows me to adjust color, tint, and sharpness, and sometimes it only allows me to adjust bright and contrast. Sometimes when I start my truck the head unit comes on, and when I press the screen the pulsetouch works and it beeps, but it does not respond. When this happends, even the remote doesn't work. I have to reset it with the little button on the front, and that erases all of my presets. Sometimes it does not come on at all for about 30 seconds, not even when I press the power button, and then it will suddenly come on. I'll be taking it back to the shop where I got it soon.

AppleBonker
08-02-2007, 10:47 PM
Sorry to hear about your problems with the W205. Check my post in subwoofers on my Type-X that had problems. Sent it back to Alpine and they sent a replacement in no time. Good customer service from my one experience.

Now that my car is fully back together, it appears that it doesn't matter how I set my multichannel anywhere, if I select a 5.1 source it all plays pretty much the same. The bass output is more than adequate in comparison to other sources. I'll check more tomorrow to be sure and then give a better description of my settings.