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View Full Version : Installed Components: All I hear is Highs, no Mids???



ttran
07-21-2007, 01:20 AM
I hooked up a complete system and didn't notice it until I turned my subwoofer off today.

My door components seem to only be putting out highs. I don't hear any mids/bass at all from them. Why is this happening????

dwynne
07-21-2007, 01:55 PM
What did you install (component brand and model) and did you install them with the supplied passive crossover networks? What amp and how many watts? Are the mids moving at all - any movement of the cones or just not enough sound to keep up with the tweets?

1) Obviously if one or more are not moving they are not wired in right.

2) If both are moving but the net is too low then maybe they are wired out of phase.

3) You can also boost the (apparent) mid level by reducing the tweet level - many passive networks have -1 -3 -6 db or whatever adjustments on them, reducing tweet volume may get them back balanced.

4) You could also have a high pass set too high on the mids or component amp or headunit and it is limiting the frequencies that gets to the mids.

5) Underpowering them or overpowering the tweets if running active. If running active check the mids level on the x-over and/or reduce the tweets level.

I am sure there could be other causes - one or more of the mids could be defective, could be muffled by being mounted behind the factory speaker cutouts, etc.

Dennis

Skip01
07-21-2007, 02:17 PM
Ima go with u have ur crossover set to high.....what comps you have..see how low they are able to go down to...and go from there

Also could be on the radio or amp

ttran
07-21-2007, 04:12 PM
i installed phoenix gold rsd65cs with a jl audio e2150 amp. its rated at 70 watts x2 @ 4 ohms. the speakers are 60watt rms

i can hear both speakers fine, but i just dont hear any mids/bass coming out of them. they sound like the tweeters.


I have the filter frequency set to 200hz and I think that is the problem right? Well actually, the audio guy set it to 200hz cuz he said it would be less stressful on the crossover. I dont think he knows what hes talking about.

ttran
07-21-2007, 04:17 PM
Ima go with u have ur crossover set to high.....what comps you have..see how low they are able to go down to...and go from there

Also could be on the radio or amp

what do u mean the crossover is set too high? I dont recall seeing any adjustment knobs on the cross over.

Also, sometimes smell this burning. I have no idea what it is? could it be that my speaker wires are too small?

CrazedCat
07-21-2007, 04:33 PM
200hz is way too high and watch the gain on the amp that's probably the burning smell from the xover resistors. Adjust the gain and crossover setting on the amp.

dwynne
07-21-2007, 04:48 PM
I have the filter frequency set to 200hz and I think that is the problem right? Well actually, the audio guy set it to 200hz cuz he said it would be less stressful on the crossover. I dont think he knows what hes talking about.

Where is this "filter frequency" set, on the e2150? Looks like that is what JL calls it - that is WAY, WAY too high. Turn off the system and turn the filter more switch to off and fire it back up (with the volume down) and see how it sounds.

At some point you may have to switch the high pass back on but at a much lower setting, like 60 or maybe 80 if you have a sub. The component specs say they can play down to 45hz (if you believe the claims) so you could just the filter frequency down to its lowest position (50).

Are you running a sub? If so, then you want the crossover point on the sub amp to be complementary to the high pass on the e2150.

1) Turn the volume on the head unit all the way down.

2) Turn it all off

3) Flip the amp switch to filter mode = off

4) Turn it all back on

5) Slowly raise the volume and see how it sounds.

Dennis

ttran
07-21-2007, 05:27 PM
Where is this "filter frequency" set, on the e2150? Looks like that is what JL calls it - that is WAY, WAY too high. Turn off the system and turn the filter more switch to off and fire it back up (with the volume down) and see how it sounds.

At some point you may have to switch the high pass back on but at a much lower setting, like 60 or maybe 80 if you have a sub. The component specs say they can play down to 45hz (if you believe the claims) so you could just the filter frequency down to its lowest position (50).

Are you running a sub? If so, then you want the crossover point on the sub amp to be complementary to the high pass on the e2150.

1) Turn the volume on the head unit all the way down.

2) Turn it all off

3) Flip the amp switch to filter mode = off

4) Turn it all back on

5) Slowly raise the volume and see how it sounds.

Dennis

Yes, I am running a Jl 10w6v2 and it bumps hard lol. I adjusted the frequency on the e2150 to 80hz instead of 200..lol. What frequency on the subwoofer amp would compliment this?

The filter mode on the e2150 is on hp right now. What does all this mean?

off/hp/lp

So I should leave it at off???

dwynne
07-21-2007, 06:06 PM
Yes, I am running a Jl 10w6v2 and it bumps hard lol. I adjusted the frequency on the e2150 to 80hz instead of 200..lol. What frequency on the subwoofer amp would compliment this?

The filter mode on the e2150 is on hp right now. What does all this mean?

off/hp/lp

So I should leave it at off???

So turning it down to 80 "fixed" the mids?

The JL sub should be a nice one, but it would depend on the type of box and install as to how high (of a frequency) it would play. I would try setting the sub amp low pass at 80 hz or a little less and leave the component amp at 80 hz and see how that sounds to you. If you can borrow a signal generator or a test tone CD you want to "sweep" the frequencies and listen to see if the overall level is fairly flat - no holes are dips. If you cross the sub too high its output will be weak and leave a "hole" before the mids get going. If you have an overlap there will be too much volume at those frequencies. If you set both amp's controls the same and they are both labelled correctly you will end up with a little "boom" or peak because that is where the roll off STARTS - so you would end up setting them a little off from one another to get the perfect blend where they cross. How much depends on the slope of the control.

The switch means:

OFF: Does nothing to the signal, just amplifies and send it to the speakers

LP: Low Pass = Passes the lows (thus also blocks the highs) - if you were running a sub on the amp this is position you would just and the control dial would determine the highest frequency passed before level roll off occurs.

HP: High Pass = Passes the highs (blocks the lows) - the position you want it in to keep the frequencies the sub is handling out of the front speakers. In this mode, the control dial set the lowest frequency that will pass before attenuation of the signal begins.

WIth no test tones: You could turn off the sub and just run the fronts, crank up the fronts and see how they sound. Put on on bass heavy music and see how they handle it. If you hear distortion on the lowest notes then turn the filter up to block those from the fronts. Once you can get it sound good without distortion then you have found a good setting for that filter. Add the sub back in and see how it sounds, raise the crossover point on it as needed - if you had to raise the front amp's setting to prevent distortion due to low frequencies. Make sure you don't overdrive the mids/tweets while playing with this.

In general if you cross too high upper bass will seem to come from the sub when it should be coming from the mids. Lower frequencies are not directional so having a single sub or pair mounted behind you does not mess up your soundstage.

What head unit are you using and does it have any sub or line level filters in it as well? Make sure you are not "double crossing" by having cross over points set in the head unit and on the amps.

Dennis

ttran
07-21-2007, 07:32 PM
So turning it down to 80 "fixed" the mids?

The JL sub should be a nice one, but it would depend on the type of box and install as to how high (of a frequency) it would play. I would try setting the sub amp low pass at 80 hz or a little less and leave the component amp at 80 hz and see how that sounds to you. If you can borrow a signal generator or a test tone CD you want to "sweep" the frequencies and listen to see if the overall level is fairly flat - no holes are dips. If you cross the sub too high its output will be weak and leave a "hole" before the mids get going. If you have an overlap there will be too much volume at those frequencies. If you set both amp's controls the same and they are both labelled correctly you will end up with a little "boom" or peak because that is where the roll off STARTS - so you would end up setting them a little off from one another to get the perfect blend where they cross. How much depends on the slope of the control.

The switch means:

OFF: Does nothing to the signal, just amplifies and send it to the speakers

LP: Low Pass = Passes the lows (thus also blocks the highs) - if you were running a sub on the amp this is position you would just and the control dial would determine the highest frequency passed before level roll off occurs.

HP: High Pass = Passes the highs (blocks the lows) - the position you want it in to keep the frequencies the sub is handling out of the front speakers. In this mode, the control dial set the lowest frequency that will pass before attenuation of the signal begins.

WIth no test tones: You could turn off the sub and just run the fronts, crank up the fronts and see how they sound. Put on on bass heavy music and see how they handle it. If you hear distortion on the lowest notes then turn the filter up to block those from the fronts. Once you can get it sound good without distortion then you have found a good setting for that filter. Add the sub back in and see how it sounds, raise the crossover point on it as needed - if you had to raise the front amp's setting to prevent distortion due to low frequencies. Make sure you don't overdrive the mids/tweets while playing with this.

In general if you cross too high upper bass will seem to come from the sub when it should be coming from the mids. Lower frequencies are not directional so having a single sub or pair mounted behind you does not mess up your soundstage.

What head unit are you using and does it have any sub or line level filters in it as well? Make sure you are not "double crossing" by having cross over points set in the head unit and on the amps.

Dennis
Yes, I turned it the e2150 (filter frequency) down to 80hz and I can hear the mids now. The JL 500/1s filter frequency is at 55hz. How would I adjust the highs on the components to make em less bright

I have a pioneer deh880prs.

10w6v2 is in a sealed box .80 cubic ft

I've adjusted a few things and now I can crank up my volume a lot more w/o it sounding too loud or distorted. But now my sub isn't hitting very hard. The bass is a lot clean/low than before, but it lacks BOOM.

So what would you recommend me set it to? Off/hp/lp??

dwynne
07-22-2007, 12:17 AM
Yes, I turned it the e2150 (filter frequency) down to 80hz and I can hear the mids now. The JL 500/1s filter frequency is at 55hz. How would I adjust the highs on the components to make em less bright

I have a pioneer deh880prs.

10w6v2 is in a sealed box .80 cubic ft

I've adjusted a few things and now I can crank up my volume a lot more w/o it sounding too loud or distorted. But now my sub isn't hitting very hard. The bass is a lot clean/low than before, but it lacks BOOM.

So what would you recommend me set it to? Off/hp/lp??

How would I adjust the highs on the components to make em less bright

There may be a tweeter level adjustment on each of the cross overs. It may be a jumper or a switch - check the owner's manual. A lot of component sets now include 2 or 3 or more tweeters settings on the crossover. It may be labelled -0, -1, -2 or something. Try a lower setting and see if that tames the highs. The PG web page is really bad and I could not find any online docs about this.

You might want to turn the sub crossover up a little higher than 55 and maybe some more gain.

If you are using the crossover built into the Pioneer than there is probably a sub level adjustment in that as well.

Ideally, you want to adjust the input levels on the amps so they will produce rated power when you have the head unit cranked up to about 3/4 volume. If the speakers are rated to take less power than than the amp can provide, then you need to adjust to that power lever with the head unit at 3/4. Distortion kills audio equipment and if you turn it up too much it the amp may distort and blow your speakers and/or melt the amp. Once the levels a set right, you can use the sub level control in the head unit or maybe a remote control for the sub amp to control the level or the sub - hopefully to turn it DOWN to blend in with the components. If you turn it up, then you may over drive the amp and will need to re-set the levels on the amp. If you can't make it loud enough then you need either more/bigger subs or more amp power.

Af far as the switch on the components amp, leave it in HP to keep the low bass out of the components.

I would get a test tone CD and a digital volt meter and get the level set properly, then go from there setting the sound like you like it w/o blowing anything up.

Dennis

ttran
07-22-2007, 02:57 PM
How would I adjust the highs on the components to make em less bright

There may be a tweeter level adjustment on each of the cross overs. It may be a jumper or a switch - check the owner's manual. A lot of component sets now include 2 or 3 or more tweeters settings on the crossover. It may be labelled -0, -1, -2 or something. Try a lower setting and see if that tames the highs. The PG web page is really bad and I could not find any online docs about this.

You might want to turn the sub crossover up a little higher than 55 and maybe some more gain.

If you are using the crossover built into the Pioneer than there is probably a sub level adjustment in that as well.

Ideally, you want to adjust the input levels on the amps so they will produce rated power when you have the head unit cranked up to about 3/4 volume. If the speakers are rated to take less power than than the amp can provide, then you need to adjust to that power lever with the head unit at 3/4. Distortion kills audio equipment and if you turn it up too much it the amp may distort and blow your speakers and/or melt the amp. Once the levels a set right, you can use the sub level control in the head unit or maybe a remote control for the sub amp to control the level or the sub - hopefully to turn it DOWN to blend in with the components. If you turn it up, then you may over drive the amp and will need to re-set the levels on the amp. If you can't make it loud enough then you need either more/bigger subs or more amp power.

Af far as the switch on the components amp, leave it in HP to keep the low bass out of the components.

I would get a test tone CD and a digital volt meter and get the level set properly, then go from there setting the sound like you like it w/o blowing anything up.

Dennis

Will do.

Ya, I took your advice and lowered both gains all the way down. Turned the HU volume up to about 75% and slowly cranked up the gain on the component amp until it didn't sound right or distorted. Same with the subwoofer.

I noticed that my adjustments made the sub hit a lot cleaner now. More SQ, but less SPL.

What would turning up the filter frequency do to the subwoofer?

dwynne
07-23-2007, 02:19 PM
What would turning up the filter frequency do to the subwoofer?

Let the sub play a little higher frequencies. If you have happy with the sound, then leave it alone :) .

You might still look for a test tone CD online or at fleabay, or get one of the free/shareware PC programs to generate tones - and get your levels set to safe points "just in case".

Dennis

ttran
08-16-2007, 04:57 PM
still no mids. I thought i fixed it, but i didnt. :(


anyone know what could be wrong? i can hear out of the speakers, but no mids. just highs from the speakers and tweeters

xtremekustomz
08-16-2007, 05:06 PM
Are your midrange and tweets wired into the same location of your crossover?

ttran
08-16-2007, 06:39 PM
Are your midrange and tweets wired into the same location of your crossover?

I'm not sure. I had a shop do it.

xtremekustomz
08-16-2007, 07:22 PM
I guess the crossovers aren't visible?

SRim23
08-16-2007, 07:26 PM
I'm not sure. I had a shop do it.

id take it back to them and let them fix their own mistake instead of worrying about it. or learn the lesson i learned, do it yourself and youll know how its wired.

ttran
08-16-2007, 07:55 PM
I guess the crossovers aren't visible?

Its inside the doors, but i'm gonna take it back.

BASSMEKANIK
08-16-2007, 08:02 PM
hmmm...

BASSMEKANIK
08-16-2007, 08:03 PM
depending on where in texas you are you should just bring it by and let me fix it. im scared to ask where you had everything installed... :uhoh:

dwynne
08-17-2007, 12:26 AM
still no mids. I thought i fixed it, but i didnt. :(


anyone know what could be wrong? i can hear out of the speakers, but no mids. just highs from the speakers and tweeters

Download the test tones mentioned here: http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78021 and burn an audio CD. Use the sweep and other test tones to try to figure out what is going on with your system.

Dennis

headless
08-17-2007, 12:00 PM
Don't take it back; if they set it up this badly they won't know how to fix it anyway. Gain down is good. I'd say high pass on your components @ 80hz and low pass on your subwoofer @ 80hz and see how that sounds. Tweak from there. I wouldn't set the low pass any higher than 100hz and i wouldn't set the high pass any lower than 60hz or so - and maybe higher, around 100hz, if you hear stress from the components when playing bass heavy music with the crossover @ 80hz.