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View Full Version : comp/amp combo for a subless system?



Trendkill
06-25-2007, 10:44 AM
A buddy of mine wants to upgrade the stock speakers in his wrx. He was hoping to spend around 300 on the upgrade, and may add subs in the future. He wants to use the stock tweeter and 5.25 woofer locations in his front doors. I'm lookng for some suggestions for him. Pheonix Gold RSD's seem pretty decent for the cost from what I've read.

mike11202
06-25-2007, 11:05 AM
Yeah I've heard those PG Z's R rated are really cheap and nice quality

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PHOENIX-gold-zr-5-0-5-25-component-audio-speakers-new_W0QQitemZ170124705689QQcmdZViewItem

i bet that set will go for below $50

DejaWiz
06-25-2007, 12:58 PM
Here would be a decent starter/budget system:

Comps: PG RSd65cs (http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=17540) - $129 shipped

Sub: PG RSd12 (http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=17537) - $129 shipped

Amp: Crunch PZi 175.4 (http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=16694) - $109 shipped, a bit overrated, but should do nicely in the interim until a better amp can be had. (can anyone suggest a better budget amp in this price range?)


Total: $367... a little over budget, but will sound **** nice.

Use channels 1 and 2 for the comps, bridge 3 and 4 for the sub.

tbasile1
06-25-2007, 01:52 PM
agreed with DejaWiz, that would be a nice setup and sound great!

Trendkill
06-26-2007, 10:06 AM
Here would be a decent starter/budget system:

Comps: PG RSd65cs (http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=17540) - $129 shipped

Sub: PG RSd12 (http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=17537) - $129 shipped

Amp: Crunch PZi 175.4 (http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=16694) - $109 shipped, a bit overrated, but should do nicely in the interim until a better amp can be had. (can anyone suggest a better budget amp in this price range?)


Total: $367... a little over budget, but will sound **** nice.

Use channels 1 and 2 for the comps, bridge 3 and 4 for the sub.
Thanks for the suggestions. Looks pretty good. However when he does get subs, he wants to get a little more serious. So he's just gonna go without a substage for now. Can anyone suggest a decent 2 channel amp to power the RSD's? They are rated for only 60w.

DejaWiz
06-26-2007, 10:17 AM
Thanks for the suggestions. Looks pretty good. However when he does get subs, he wants to get a little more serious. So he's just gonna go without a substage for now. Can anyone suggest a decent 2 channel amp to power the RSD's? They are rated for only 60w.

That RSd sub may not look like it, but it is a serious sub. Those babies can take a clean 1000+ Wrms daily while staying surprisingly accurate and get loud.

As for the comps, a clean 150+ W rms can be run to them no problem at all.

It seems everything that carries the PG RSd name is a bit underrated and is currently some of the best values for car audio equipment out there right now, IMO.

For under $400, I don't really think a better starter setup could be had.

Oh, here's a vid (http://realmofexcursion.com/videos/Phoenix%20Gold/rsd10.1.wmv) of the 12" RSd sub in action.

blimblam
06-26-2007, 10:24 AM
Here would be a decent starter/budget system:

Comps: PG RSd65cs (http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=17540) - $129 shipped

Sub: PG RSd12 (http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=17537) - $129 shipped

Amp: Crunch PZi 175.4 (http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=16694) - $109 shipped, a bit overrated, but should do nicely in the interim until a better amp can be had. (can anyone suggest a better budget amp in this price range?)


Total: $367... a little over budget, but will sound **** nice.

Use channels 1 and 2 for the comps, bridge 3 and 4 for the sub.


got my PG RSD comps for 95 shipped on ebay :D

Trendkill
06-26-2007, 10:32 AM
That RSd sub may not look like it, but it is a serious sub. Those babies can take a clean 1000+ Wrms daily while staying surprisingly accurate and get loud.

As for the comps, a clean 150+ W rms can be run to them no problem at all.

It seems everything that carries the PG RSd name is a bit underrated and is currently some of the best values for car audio equipment out there right now, IMO.

For under $400, I don't really think a better starter setup could be had.

Oh, here's a vid (http://realmofexcursion.com/videos/Phoenix%20Gold/rsd10.1.wmv) of the 12" RSd sub in action.Could the rsd subs compete with Fi Q's or JLW6's?

DejaWiz
06-26-2007, 11:05 AM
Could the rsd subs compete with Fi Q's or JLW6's?

It's all in the install.

Equipment brand, model, and reputation will come crashing down and mean absolutely nothing if the install is done poorly.

It's all in the install.

So yes, a 12" RSd can be installed in a manner (box type, mounting orientation, mounting axis, etc etc etc) that will vastly outperform a Fi Q or Dub6 in a crappy install.

It's all in the install.

Now, given that the Fi Q, the Dub6, or the RSd is installed as effectively as possible, which sub sounds better is going to be grossly dependant on the individual physically listening to them all.

It's all in the install.

We can ask all day long if Brand A is better than Brand B and/or Brand C, but the determining factor lies with the ears of the beholder and what desires need to be fulfilled.

It's all in the install. (got it? :D )

For the money, take that RSd sub and run with it. Break it in a bit. Test it with a variety of music genres. You're friend will likely be pleasantly surprised. And if the desire is there for more, add a second one or go with a different brand altogether.

tbasile1
06-26-2007, 11:08 AM
Pg Rsd12 Ftw!!!!

DejaWiz
06-26-2007, 11:20 AM
Pg Rsd12 Ftw!!!!

Word.

Trendkill
06-26-2007, 11:25 AM
I realize that the install is very important, but generally when I am comparing items I assume that all other things are equal. For example I wouldn't put any less effort into installing a JL sub than a PG sub.

Trendkill
06-26-2007, 11:28 AM
Now as far as giving the components more power than they are rated for... I should theoretically be able to power them with a 2 thousand watt amp as long as I set the gain low enough right? Essentially it doesn't matter how powerful the amp is, as long as I'm not getting audible distortion the speakers should never blow right?

DejaWiz
06-26-2007, 11:41 AM
I realize that the install is very important, but generally when I am comparing items I assume that all other things are equal. For example I wouldn't put any less effort into installing a JL sub than a PG sub.

Excellent news! For such a low investment of <$130 and fitting in with the budget range, why not give the RSd a shot? If it doesn't work out, it won't be a problem to sell it here on the forums and recoup a majority of the investment.

Further reading:
http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=240811&highlight=rsd12

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=239869&highlight=rsd12

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=183185&highlight=rsd12

http://www.soundbuggy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3985

DejaWiz
06-26-2007, 11:45 AM
Now as far as giving the components more power than they are rated for... I should theoretically be able to power them with a 2 thousand watt amp as long as I set the gain low enough right? Essentially it doesn't matter how powerful the amp is, as long as I'm not getting audible distortion the speakers should never blow right?

Distortion, clipping, and exceeding the mechanical and thermal thresholds are the biggest enemies of any driver. Yes, you can put a 2000w RMS per channel amp on the comps and keep set gains low enough so that the amp is only supplying 150w rms per channel to them.

Simple equation:

SQRT (Watts * Ohms) = Voltage


For example, you want to send 150w rms per channel to the comps, you'll need to measure the amp outputs without the speakers attached with a DMM.

SQRT (150 * 4) = 24.5V

Click the link in my sig for further details if this is still a bit fuzzy.

tbasile1
06-26-2007, 11:49 AM
Man all this great talk about the RSDs makes me wana go get some, if i had the money :( But theres a local shop near me that sells PG, maybe ill go there soon and see if they got any hooked up, i think i heard the Titanium Elite PG subs last time i went there, but i was more focused on MB Quart speakers, but i do remember that the sub was pretty nice and sounded good

Trendkill
06-26-2007, 02:21 PM
Thanks Dejawiz, great info. Now to switch gears a bit. he also mentioned to me that he wants new rear speakers. I told him that rear speakers aren't all that important, but he insisted that he wants people riding in the back seat to be able to hear the music well.

Assuming I can't talk him out of it, would it be alright to grab some decent 4" speakers and just run them off head unit power?

DejaWiz
06-26-2007, 02:30 PM
Thanks Dejawiz, great info. Now to switch gears a bit. he also mentioned to me that he wants new rear speakers. I told him that rear speakers aren't all that important, but he insisted that he wants people riding in the back seat to be able to hear the music well.

Assuming I can't talk him out of it, would it be alright to grab some decent 4" speakers and just run them off head unit power?

Glad to help out.

If you can talk him out of it, definitely do so. Maybe have him try it without rears first. If he still wants rear fill off HU power, then look into Pioneer REV's (do they have to be 4" drivers?).

Trendkill
06-26-2007, 02:43 PM
Well, we didn't open up his doors, but according to crutchfield they are 4". And they are like way down low too. Jeez the more I type the more I realize I need to talk him out of it.

DejaWiz
06-26-2007, 03:43 PM
Well, we didn't open up his doors, but according to crutchfield they are 4". And they are like way down low too. Jeez the more I type the more I realize I need to talk him out of it.

Yes, please talk him out of it. The only thing 4" drivers would provide is performance in the upper-mid to upper frequency range, and that will really screw up the front sound staging.

4" full range speakers? That's wrong on so many different levels. :laugh:

Trendkill
06-26-2007, 04:31 PM
Ok so how significant would sound deadening be in this application (just the comps, no subs for now)?

DejaWiz
06-26-2007, 04:34 PM
Pretty significant. Even going with a basic door kit stuck around the speaker mounts would help a bit.

Check out Second Skin Damplifier (http://www.secondskinaudio.com/viewproduct.php?id_product=294&category=74) and their speaker pads (http://www.secondskinaudio.com/viewproduct.php?id_product=330&category=71), as well. 20 sqft should be plenty for the doors.

youngfu
06-26-2007, 05:47 PM
You can buy PG RSD line stuffs cheaper from Etronics.
I got my RSD 12" about $90 shipped.

DejaWiz
06-26-2007, 05:52 PM
You can buy PG RSD line stuffs cheaper from Etronics.
I got my RSD 12" about $90 shipped.

True. However:
OCS = Authorized PG dealer.
ETronics = non-authorized PG dealer.

A 45% increase is quite a bit no doubt, but if you are concerned about a warranty, it might be worth the extra cost.

Trendkill
06-27-2007, 09:05 PM
Ok so I talked to him and he told me that he wants rear speakers for surround sound for his dvd player. This complicates things. Would 4" Coaxials not be enough for that?

DejaWiz
06-27-2007, 09:49 PM
Ok so I talked to him and he told me that he wants rear speakers for surround sound for his dvd player. This complicates things. Would 4" Coaxials not be enough for that?

Does he have a DVD capable HU with surround sound processing? If he doesn't, then rear fill isn't going to do squat except mirror the front stereo and really mess up the imaging and sound stage.

DejaWiz
06-27-2007, 09:50 PM
double post.....

DejaWiz
06-27-2007, 09:50 PM
Triple post....





oopsie

Trendkill
06-27-2007, 11:55 PM
whoa triple post?! lol anyway...

http://www.mobileonesales.com/product_p/avn2454.htm

That's the HU he has installed.

DejaWiz
06-28-2007, 12:28 AM
whoa triple post?! lol anyway...

http://www.mobileonesales.com/product_p/avn2454.htm

That's the HU he has installed.

Sorry to bear the news to your friend, but rear fill is pointless with that HU. Even though it is DVD capable, it does not have discreet surround sound processing and output capability. Just like a standard CD HU with 3 pairs of stereo RCA ouputs, it too only has front, rear, and non-fade (subwoofer) RCA outs.