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docutech
06-15-2007, 12:37 AM
As a relatively new member to the Gateway Audio Society circle here in Saint Louis, I was very fortunate to be invited to a professional recording session.
The recording session took place in the cathedral of a church. A 100 year organ was the center of attention along with an amazing organ player who blew all of us away. He performed a number of pieces that allowed us to experience just what this thing could do. It was AMAZING. He didn't even use sheet music. Every piece performed was played from memory and practice. The organ literally rocked the house! The event lasted about 2 hours with a brief intermission. Air conditioning had to be turned off for the duration of the event, so things got quite thick in the cathedral. Nevertheless, we were all blown away.
Among us were some rather famous people such as Alvin McCall (Saint Louis Symphony Orchestra) The recording was done in stereo mode with boom microphones erected pipe level. The purpose of this recording session was to experience the live performance in person and then listen to it on various setups by way of CD (which will be ready in about 2 weeks). I am very excited to get my hands on this disk just to see what sort of difference I will hear. I will post pictures tomorrow as I am beat and ready to hit the sack. More to come...

thylantyr
06-15-2007, 01:28 AM
What would be a good Slayer song translated to organ?

South of Heaven ?

docutech
06-15-2007, 09:31 AM
What would be a good Slayer song translated to organ?

South of Heaven ?

Oh man, I dont know! I never heard Slayers stuff...

Here are some pics:

The organ:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e134/p_j507/Picture001.jpg


The mic's:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e134/p_j507/Picture009.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e134/p_j507/Picture012.jpg


More organ:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e134/p_j507/Picture024.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e134/p_j507/Picture004.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e134/p_j507/Picture026.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e134/p_j507/Picture029.jpg


The Cathedral:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e134/p_j507/Picture021.jpg

I do not have any pictures of the actual performance as no one could move about while the recording was going on. We could breathe tho...:laugh:

Enjoy.

joetama
06-18-2007, 11:03 PM
Not going to lie but that would be terrible mic placement. :fyi:

Looks like the left and right mics are going to be VERY time lagged between each other for a mono instrument . They also seem in a prime location for picking up 2nd & 3rd reverberation from the walls directly adjacent to the organ. Oh well, what do I know, I have only been doing live sound and installs in churches since I was a wee lad...

joetama
06-18-2007, 11:04 PM
However, on a good note...

One of those organs with a kick *** player can be a totally amazing experience...

1loudsuv
06-18-2007, 11:25 PM
Not going to lie but that would be terrible mic placement. :fyi:

Looks like the left and right mics are going to be VERY time lagged between each other for a mono instrument . They also seem in a prime location for picking up 2nd & 3rd reverberation from the walls directly adjacent to the organ. Oh well, what do I know, I have only been doing live sound and installs in churches since I was a wee lad...

I want to test myself, where would you place the mic then?

docutech
06-19-2007, 01:28 PM
Not going to lie but that would be terrible mic placement. :fyi:

Looks like the left and right mics are going to be VERY time lagged between each other for a mono instrument . They also seem in a prime location for picking up 2nd & 3rd reverberation from the walls directly adjacent to the organ. Oh well, what do I know, I have only been doing live sound and installs in churches since I was a wee lad...

I appreciate your honesty here and would like to add that I dont know a thing about recording live events myself. The person who recorded the session is a very well known producer and he has a lot of experience in this field (He has done some recordings for the Saint Louis Symphony Orchestra) so I trust that the things he did were done for a reason.

mtlhead
06-19-2007, 02:29 PM
yea, it doesnt seem as if the mics are placed far enough apart, usually you want a 3:1 ratio

(ie if the mics are 1 foot in front of the pipes, they need to be 3 feet away from each other)

mtlhead
06-19-2007, 02:30 PM
any idea what kind of mics those are? i dont recognize them

joetama
06-20-2007, 05:49 PM
Look like they could be Neumann microphones.

Well... The mics aren't far enough apart if they are going to be doing stereo, which I wouldn't do anyway. I would have done an arc of mics or one microphone about 3-7 feet off of the middle of the vent tubes. Depending on the room (and most churches **** anus for acoustics) I would probably use one microphone positioned in a equal distance behind the organ. If I decided to multi mic probably would have used some Sennheisers on the mid-frequencies, a RE20 EV mic on the LF, and a good Condenser on the HF pipes. But, then you would have to multi-track the recording and run filters on it once you got back to the studio. So, honestly I would go for one (maybe two) microphones using that 1:3 rule and keeping it semi-close to the organ to keep the room acoustic factors to a minimum.

Sort of like this:
M

O M
O _M
O M

M

M= Microphone
O= Organ

In case you didn't figure that out ;)

I am sure the recording came out perfectly fine and will sound awesome, but I am VERY **** about microphone placement and live sound/recording.

ngsm13
06-20-2007, 06:20 PM
n00bx.

nG

Beat_Dominator
06-20-2007, 06:28 PM
That mic is a bit further away than the pictures make it look I think. Depending on the mic and its pickup pattern, whether that be a cardioroid or bipolar could make a big difference.

mtlhead
06-20-2007, 08:39 PM
That mic is a bit further away than the pictures make it look I think. Depending on the mic and its pickup pattern, whether that be a cardioroid or bipolar could make a big difference.

those are most definitely not bi-direcetional pattern microphones... if its the nuemann im thinking of (184s) they are cardiods, but its kind of hard to tell, so i doubt its a 184

mtlhead
06-20-2007, 08:43 PM
&W
Look like they could be Neumann microphones.

Well... The mics aren't far enough apart if they are going to be doing stereo, which I wouldn't do anyway. I would have done an arc of mics or one microphone about 3-7 feet off of the middle of the vent tubes. Depending on the room (and most churches **** anus for acoustics) I would probably use one microphone positioned in a equal distance behind the organ. If I decided to multi mic probably would have used some Sennheisers on the mid-frequencies, a RE20 EV mic on the LF, and a good Condenser on the HF pipes. But, then you would have to multi-track the recording and run filters on it once you got back to the studio. So, honestly I would go for one (maybe two) microphones using that 1:3 rule and keeping it semi-close to the organ to keep the room acoustic factors to a minimum.

Sort of like this:
M

O M
O _M
O M

M

M= Microphone
O= Organ

In case you didn't figure that out ;)

I am sure the recording came out perfectly fine and will sound awesome, but I am VERY **** about microphone placement and live sound/recording.

any particular reason for an RE20 on the lows, rather than say a beta 52? or a D112? just curious...im at a recording school now, so im seeing what other people are up to lol

joetama
06-21-2007, 11:07 AM
I have always felt the Beta was a lot better at impulse but the RE20 had a lot better tone quality, especially in the lower registers.

For example, I have used both Betas and RE20s on stand up bass, acoustic FTW. They both worked well and sounded good, but I personally felt the RE20 had a better control/sound to it. I love the Betas on kick drum and electric bass, but something like an organ to me would be more RE20 ishh. They work great on a B3s lower speaker... ;)

docutech
06-25-2007, 08:50 AM
Here is some info for you enquiring minds...



I would like to inform you that the mastering of the CD is complete and needs only approval from Dennis to start the ball moving. I have two master discs actually. the first is with the rather dead accoustics of the church and the second with added ambience via lexicon. (about 0.8 to 1.5 depending on the requirements of the music.)There has been some question about the recording gear used. here is the list: the microphones were Bruel & Kjaer models 4006. These are very omni directional and are among the most flat frequency curves available. They were spaced about five or six feet apart. The do a spectacular job in addition when spaced as little as 8" to 12" apart. For the second part of the evening , i used two Schoepps colette series mics with the No. 5 preamp mates with the cmc no. 5 capsule. This is a two way cardiod / omni selectable. i chose the omni settings. The mixing board was a Ramsa (panasonic pro audio) board no.WR4412. The recorder was a sony pro PCM R700 with super bit maping. Headphones were Akg 240's. All or any of you who want to get a preview listen are welcome to invite you'r self over in small groups of one, two, or three. My listening system consists of the following: Martin Logan Monoliths..These were the Prototypes and were owned by the late William Hoekstra, the St. Louis Symphony grammy winning recording engineer. Bill Worked with Martin Logan to assist with overall sound balance refining. They came into my hands when Bill later upgraded to a prototype of the Martinlogan Statements. My Preamp is the Pass Audio X-1. I use a Threshold active crossover. Amplifiers are Pass labs X 350 and Threshold S-500. CD units are sony pro CDR-66 and a rotel cd player. Also included are Sony Pro DAT PCM-R 500 and Sony Pro PCM R700. That is my basic primary system. John