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View Full Version : difference btw 2 way vs 3 way



trunks9_us
06-10-2007, 02:00 AM
ok i alrdy got my components 6.5 in the doors now i was thinking about running 3 way using 5.25 speakers for the mid range. Will i be hearing a big difference if i go from 2 way to 3 way? take note i am using 5.25 components b/c i alrdy have some i bought a while back but i am wanting to know is it worth putting them in? and since ppl say these should be mid range speakers wtf is the difference btw 2 way regular speakers and then someone says to me if you go 3 way you should use those speakers for the mid ranger wtf does mid range mean? I for got to mention i am running fully active with no cross overs at all and i do have the proper equipment to do this just wanting to know how much a difference the 2way vs 3 way is and what is mid ranger and ect.

squeak9798
06-10-2007, 02:02 AM
Have you read the FAQ sticky yet ?

trunks9_us
06-10-2007, 02:03 AM
no just saw it thx

squeak9798
06-10-2007, 02:07 AM
Also, to answer a couple of questions that the FAQ might not help address;

They are probably recommending the 5.25's as dedicated midrange because "typically" smaller drivers are a little better at reproducing the higher midrange frequencies. But, this is a generalization and any benefits in sound from the driver itself will depend on what drivers you are using.

Second; You can't just "go 3-way". In order to do what you are wanting to do, and do it effectively, you would need to either design a custom 3-way crossover or go active.

trunks9_us
06-10-2007, 02:10 AM
i am going to be running active using a zapco 4.0 for my 6.5 comps
and the i was thinking about buying a zapco 2.5 cause its a 4 chan amp also for the 5.25 comps and then using a dsp6 for the processor that way i have tuning.

squeak9798
06-10-2007, 02:15 AM
The DSP6 is only a 3-way processor.

If you were wanting to go fully active with a subwoofer (which is actually 4-way; 3-way frontstage+subwoofer) , a single DSP6 couldn't handle the front and sub stages.

You would have to get creative with the combination of the DSP6 plus using the xovers in the amps or headunit.

And honestly....you didn't ask and might not care....but given the question you asked it's pretty obvious you are a relative novice to this. As such; You appear to bet set to spend a bunch of money on gear that you may not have the knowledge to effectively use. IMO I think it would be best for you to slow your roll a little. Start smaller/simpler and as you gain knowledge and experience and work your way up the food chain. Expensive gear means zilch if you can't properly use it.


Also, you keep saying "5.25 comps".....for a 3-way setup you wouldn't use the tweeters from that other comp set. Just the mids. Wanted to be sure you were clear on that.

trunks9_us
06-10-2007, 02:26 AM
thats not what zapco told me since the 4.0 is a 4 chan amp it uses 2 syblink cables but since i am running active with no cross overs then i will be using one syblink cable for the amp & same thing then would be for the 2.5 then i would have 1 syblink input for the 9.0 going to the last input on the dsp6 input which makes 3. I am going by what i was told by at zapco and also i was told to run a 3 way it consist of 4 tweeters and 4 speakers up front. I am not sure if your not understanding what i am talking about but i am biamping so i am running each speakers and each tweeter to each channel. Does this make since to you now? Or maybe i am wrong still cause i am just going by what i was told and i also alrdy talked to the zapco installer i have been taking my car to.

trunks9_us
06-10-2007, 02:27 AM
but you might be right about it only being a 3 way processor and me not being able to hook up the 9.0 to it but the real question is why would i need th 9.0 hooked up to the dsp its just subs.

squeak9798
06-10-2007, 12:43 PM
thats not what zapco told me since the 4.0 is a 4 chan amp it uses 2 syblink cables but since i am running active with no cross overs then i will be using one syblink cable for the amp & same thing then would be for the 2.5 then i would have 1 syblink input for the 9.0 going to the last input on the dsp6 input which makes 3. I am going by what i was told by at zapco

Someone you talked to apparently doesn't understand what's going on.

To use all 4 channels of the 4.0 active you would still need to use both SymbiLink inputs on the amplifier.

How else would you feed a separate input (required when going active) to the other 2 channels if you only used a single SymbiLink cable?


and also i was told to run a 3 way it consist of 4 tweeters and 4 speakers up front.

You were again told wrong.

A 3-way front stage consists of one pair of midbass, one pair of midrange drivers and one pair of tweeters.

Some people use a 2nd pair of tweeters for auxillary tweeters with a higher xover point (7khz+) to help raise the soundstage if they have kickpanel mounted tweeters; But this is not a requirement for 3-way frontstages and can be done with any setup......and really with a properly setup frontstage should not be needed. Also, to do this you would either need an additional 2 amplifier channels aswell as the ability to either actively crossover these tweeters (which would mean you would need another 2 channels of output on the active crossover) or build your own passive network.

But no; A 3-way frontstage does not include 4 tweeters....only 2.


I am not sure if your not understanding what i am talking about but i am biamping so i am running each speakers and each tweeter to each channel. Does this make since to you now?

I've understood the entire time what you are talking about.

It sounds like it's you and/or the installer who is confused.


Or maybe i am wrong

Bingo ;)


but you might be right

I am ;)


to it but the real question is why would i need th 9.0 hooked up to the dsp its just subs.

So that you can have better processing of the subwoofer. Most anyone building the quality of system you are apparently trying to acheive given the level of equipment you are tossing money at will require that they have the ability to equalize and time delay the sub aswell as having advanced crossover functions for the subwoofer.


Again; I think you are getting in way over your technical abilities.

Tonyguy
06-10-2007, 02:25 PM
**** op, you just got schooled! JP, take what Squeak told you and learn from it.

trunks9_us
06-12-2007, 05:55 AM
ok so here me out i had a dc reference 1000.4 so it had a built in dsp 6 fuctions.
They said i would be biamping for what i am wanting to do which means i run the speakers wires from the doors to the amp then the syblink to the head unit rca using the syblink box of course. Now the dc reference has 2 syblink inputs but they said i am only going to be using one since i am running active and how they wired it up was ch. 1 lw ch. 2 lt ch. 3 rw ch. 4 rt. I asked the same thing why i would not use both syblinks they said something i dont really remember. So thats why i said i would be using 1 syblink on the 4.0. SO plz explain to me why then i should use both syblinks cause when they only had one hooked up it was working both for the tweets and speakers. Now as far as how they got the tweeters to work i have no idea you need to explain how they did there magic to me. On the 3 way i was confused myself on what i said i need to stop typing late at night but i do understand what you mean on the three way which i probable wont do now. i will most likely stick with 2 way cause i am not filthy rich.

squeak9798
06-12-2007, 07:26 PM
ok so here me out i had a dc reference 1000.4 so it had a built in dsp 6 fuctions.......So thats why i said i would be using 1 syblink on the 4.0. SO plz explain to me why then i should use both syblinks cause when they only had one hooked up it was working both for the tweets and speakers.

Now you are confusing me.

Do you have a DC1000.4 or a C2K 4.0X ?

Without being intimately familiar with the DC1k.4, the reason a single symbilink input would work while still being full active for your 2-way is probably because the amplifier is setup in such a way that a single input is capable of delivering the left & right signals to to both sets of channels. And since the amplifier has it's own internal advanced active crossover network, each set of channels would not need independent inputs since it does all of the processing internally...so it can be fed identical signals into both sets of channels via a single symbilink and use it's internal DSP to actively crossover that signal prior to being output. Hence you can go 2-way active from that amp with a single input (assuming the one input can feed both sets of channels, and I'm assuming it can).

The reason this would NOT work when going fully active 3-way with a 4.0 is because it does not have the same internal DSP....so the input to both sets of channels would need to be crossed over prior to being input into the amplifier. And since both sets of channels would be driving different speakers, this would require different input signals to be input into both sets of channels. Hence the need for two symbilink cables.



On the 3 way i was confused myself on what i said i need to stop typing late at night but i do understand what you mean on the three way which i probable wont do now.

There are ways they could get it "to work". For example, using one output of the DSP6 to power 2-channels which are connected to the mid and tweeter, with the mid and tweeter still utilizing their passive network. Then you could run both from a single set of channels and would only need to actively highpass the midrange and let the passive do the rest. This would free up 2nd output on the DSP6 to actively cross the midbass drivers on two other channels, and finally leave the 3rd output on the DSP6 available for handling the subwoofer processing.

Or, for the 1st output they could send it to the 4 channel 4.0 highpassed out of the DSP6 to highpass the midrange, but still feed that same signal to both sets channels (assuming the 4.0 has the capable to feed a single input to both channels) and then use the more primitive xovers in the 4.0 to highpass the tweeter and lowpass the midrange. I would hardly consider either of these two options ideal, however, as they are much more limited in their tuneability.

The above does NOT hold true if you have the DC series.



i am not filthy rich.

Could have fooled me with all of that Zapco gear you have :laugh:

trunks9_us
06-13-2007, 05:54 PM
no i dont have the dc reference anymore i am changing to the 4.0 but i was saying when i had the dc reference i could do that i will be calling zapco today and finding out what all to do.

Hebrew Hammer
06-13-2007, 06:08 PM
to simplify this even more for yeah......

you need a dedicated channel of amplification per speaker to go fully active...my advice is if you already have a dc100.4 is to keep it and buy another dc 1000.4 and use 2 channels for midbass and then bridge the other for sub....very simple