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View Full Version : Monitor Audio Uses Junk TWEETER??!?!?!?!



joetama
05-30-2007, 12:19 PM
Ok, so I was cruising around the internet and stumbled on this thread.

Thought the guy was over exaggerating that the tweeters were small.

Anyway, have a look...

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?p=341566#post341566

exige
05-30-2007, 12:28 PM
holy crap...now i'm regretting that i just bought radius r90's and r45's.....jeez those things are small.......

joetama
05-30-2007, 12:29 PM
I was pretty amazed when I saw that picture....

Rich B
05-30-2007, 12:30 PM
Except for the "shiny" gold color those look just like the crap Chinese tweeters you can buy at Radio Shack for $10.

exige
05-30-2007, 12:33 PM
wow i seriously might put my r90's up for sale now.....that really frickin pisses me off lol......i just f*ckin bought them a month ago.....i mean they dont have any midbass as is....but those tweeters just scare me......

thylantyr
05-30-2007, 12:38 PM
Keep in mind that driver cost multiplied by ~5 to ~20 = loudspeaker MSRP.
This is a rough estimate.

If you bought a pair of loudspeakers for $500 at the store, MTM design,
the driver cost average can be anywhere from $4 to $16 each. But usually
the tweeters are cheaper and the mids cost more. So, the tweeter probably
cost $1 - $4 each.

If you found a loudspeaker using $100 tweeters and $100 mids, MTM,
expect that design to retail for $3000 - $12000, most likely it's on the high
side as my 5x rule is just being nice to those home audio manufacturers.

If you buy Polk, Klipsch, etc caliber loudspeakers, expect to find $1 tweeters.
Klipsch is clever though, they boost performance of the cheap tweeter by
using plastic horns. hehe

That's why people into audio like to DIY. We want to use the $100 tweeters
and midranges without having to spend $12,000 for a commerical design.
You can make your $600 MTM and have $11,400 savings {$12,000 - $600}.
The $11k savings can be used to learn your DIY hobby; You can buy tools, signal processing, etc.,
and if you have a good gamelan, you can expedite your learning if you use good methodologies.

joetama
05-30-2007, 12:43 PM
I would have to agree that most manufactures use very cheap drivers, a lot of them use other companies driver and just 'modify' them. Meaning they change the part number or something... :laugh:

joetama
05-30-2007, 12:44 PM
wow i seriously might put my r90's up for sale now.....that really frickin pisses me off lol......i just f*ckin bought them a month ago.....i mean they dont have any midbass as is....but those tweeters just scare me......

I was going to say if you liked them then don't sell them. BUT, you seem to not like how they sound... Sorry man, didn't mean to ruin your day...

Fast1one
05-30-2007, 02:17 PM
Lol DIY FTW...

joetama
05-30-2007, 03:06 PM
Lol DIY FTW...

Sometimes.... ;)

exige
05-30-2007, 06:14 PM
lol idk....if i can get them sold on ebay for 350 (both sets, one pair of 45's and one pair of 90's) then i might....if not i guess ill just keep them. my goal was to get a small speaker that was pretty decent.....do you know of anything better whether DIY or not that would work and that i could build for 500 or less? im willing to forgo the surrounds if i can build a real nice front set for less than 500. any opinions on that?

1loudsuv
05-30-2007, 06:52 PM
Sometimes.... ;)

true if you dont have the tools of the skills

i remember when i was looking at buying towers the paradigms look to be the same way very expensive but the drivers looked like $50 drivers. and this is espeacially true with polk and some other brands. i think my towers use a $80-100 midrange and a $50 tweeter and the woofer i think its a vifa not sure i remember someone posting it on the avs forum. the amp does look very powerfull and shows on the power strip when bass hits, it goes up to the peak of the current.

but b&w sure uses some unique speakers. but remember its not all in the drivers its also in the box and crossover.

desertheat
05-30-2007, 07:08 PM
Those are the silver series... Which are monitors lower end. Also does not matter what they look like if they perform, even thought I do not like the silver series at all *LOL* Look at the D26N tweet, looks like it would perform equal to it's price tag, but is a stellar tweet which performs as well as tweets costing 3-4x more.

last, that is a neo tweet on the monitors which also leads to the uber small size... Overall not an impressive item visually at all but should not be dismissed just because it is thin..

exige
05-30-2007, 10:28 PM
true...neo definitely would make it smaller, but it still got me thinkin about changin stuff up. basically i saw the new M602+ home speakers that CDT is sellin on their site which got me thinkin....i have no frickin midbass...whereas those things look like they could pound. i just dono anyone who has tried them....hell i dono if cdt even released them to the general public yet? just got me thinkin that i wanted more midbass a la my M6's in my car...

desertheat
05-30-2007, 11:30 PM
What size room? Also yeah... monitor is a little thin on midbass. How long have they had to break in? I am not a big fan of the silver series but the gold series... is well gold to me if use properly :)

exige
05-31-2007, 01:48 AM
i've got radius's. they've had about 125 hours so far....so i think they're pretty worn in. i was over on avsforum talkin about some ideas. im basically thinkin of finding the cheapest high quality tweeter i can get...maybe vifa or somethin? and combining that with a CDT M6+ or ES-06+ and a 480i x-over...and then building the exact enclosure that CDT is using for their M602+ home audio speaker (i've got the design diagrams on it). CDT wanted a grand for the pair of speakers....i figure i can build em for less than half that. idk, yet...ill have to see.

desertheat
05-31-2007, 10:52 AM
www.zaphaudio.com

www.diyaudio.com

can give you some ideas :)

envengineer
06-01-2007, 01:19 PM
Zaph's designs are ****ing awesome. He actually goes through the crossover design and various implementations to allow you to tune performance to your listening situation. I can't wait to make the ZD5s.

joetama
06-01-2007, 01:34 PM
Zaph defiantly make some neat projects. Building/Reading his projects are a great way to get started building your own DIY systems.

desertheat
06-01-2007, 09:05 PM
Yep :) I am waiting for his ZD5 transmission line he is working on. Then rocking the setup :)

teamquakecelica
06-08-2007, 03:28 PM
WOW.. The tweeter in my Energy Conniseour (sp>me) C-4's is like 20x that size...lol size doesn't mean everything.. but... no shielding?

Ryan

1loudsuv
06-08-2007, 03:56 PM
i would like to see how a B&W 703 tweeter looks like token apart. or just the tweeter with the motor showing :)

1loudsuv
06-08-2007, 04:31 PM
i would like to see how a B&W 703 tweeter looks like token apart. or just the tweeter with the motor showing :)

well pretty much b&w would be to scared to do his :laugh:

so heres the ones for my def tech's

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/subingncali/189f50ee.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/subingncali/d73b8018.jpg


http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/subingncali/40738d7a.jpg

ballstothewall
06-08-2007, 04:39 PM
i would like to see how a B&W 703 tweeter looks like token apart. or just the tweeter with the motor showing :)

They have a breakdown of them on their website.

1loudsuv
06-08-2007, 04:44 PM
They have a breakdown of them on their website.

i cant seem to find the one for hte 703 it looks like the 800 series most have them but not hte 703s

joetama
06-08-2007, 06:05 PM
I have never taken the one out of the 703, nor am I, but I have taken the one out of the HTM 7. It's a pretty cute little tweeter... Not very big by any standards, but when you only need a tweeter to carry to 4kHz it doesn't have to have a big motor...

joetama
06-08-2007, 06:08 PM
It pretty much looks like this...

http://www.avguide.ch/bilder/testbericht/703Tweeter.jpg


They also use a trick in their tweeters to make them cool better so they can be run harder. But, I'll never tell what that is... :laugh:

1loudsuv
06-08-2007, 09:07 PM
It pretty much looks like this...

http://www.avguide.ch/bilder/testbericht/703Tweeter.jpg


They also use a trick in their tweeters to make them cool better so they can be run harder. But, I'll never tell what that is... :laugh:

nice looking

so by looking at the def tech's ttweeters any recommendations? ive been wanting to switch them to something better but i dunno what to use?

their crossovered at 2,500 i think or 2,000 something like that lol

ballstothewall
06-08-2007, 11:33 PM
If I was you I wouldn't screw around with changing out tweeters on a factory crossover.

joetama
06-09-2007, 12:23 AM
If I was you I wouldn't screw around with changing out tweeters on a factory crossover.

I agree. Expecially with the balance needed in a loudspeaker like yours.

exige
06-09-2007, 12:27 AM
B&W...i'm local to cincy also....do you run a shop around here that i could check in at and hear some stuff from? or are you just a consumer?

joetama
06-09-2007, 12:34 AM
I wish I ran a shop!!! That is my dream job.

The best place for you to go is Entertainment Solutions in Rookwood Commons...

Talk to Julio, he is a great guy and will help you find what is best for you! There also is some super good deals right now on the B&W 600 S3 because the new S4 just came out...

exige
06-09-2007, 12:41 AM
im thinkin about building my own stuff to be honest....peerless hds 1" tweeter, dayton x-over, and possibly the cdt m6+ driver. i already have the hds and dayton x-over....im just lookin for a a 6.5" driver that puts out as much midbass as the m6+ does. i havent been able to find a driver that does so far so idk....do you have any recommendations?

ps - really reallly random question....but when you're building a speaker cabinet...do you use a router to make the whole for the speaker?

1loudsuv
06-09-2007, 01:56 AM
im thinkin about building my own stuff to be honest....peerless hds 1" tweeter, dayton x-over, and possibly the cdt m6+ driver. i already have the hds and dayton x-over....im just lookin for a a 6.5" driver that puts out as much midbass as the m6+ does. i havent been able to find a driver that does so far so idk....do you have any recommendations?

ps - really reallly random question....but when you're building a speaker cabinet...do you use a router to make the whole for the speaker?

yes a router is best. perfect circles and you can countersink the drivers.

heres some circles ive made...

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/subingncali/8fe3153e.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/subingncali/89b6182e.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/subingncali/100_1150Large.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/subingncali/100_1153.jpg

desertheat
06-09-2007, 02:45 AM
WOW.. The tweeter in my Energy Conniseour (sp>me) C-4's is like 20x that size...lol size doesn't mean everything.. but... no shielding?

Ryan

Neo tweets are sheilded by design...

desertheat
06-09-2007, 02:46 AM
well pretty much b&w would be to scared to do his :laugh:

so heres the ones for my def tech's

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/subingncali/189f50ee.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/subingncali/d73b8018.jpg


http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/subingncali/40738d7a.jpg


Nice unit, it is huge as it uses a standard ceramic magnet and a bucking magnet to sheild it :) Besides weight and size, how do you like them..?

1loudsuv
06-09-2007, 03:29 AM
Nice unit, it is huge as it uses a standard ceramic magnet and a bucking magnet to sheild it :) Besides weight and size, how do you like them..?

i think their good well worth the price over all. but i do notice a slight harshness and sometimes i can hear distortion in the high end at any volume. its not their with all types of music so i dunno if its just the recording or if its the tweeters. when i first got them one was harsh all the time which is that one. then def tech sent me a new one and it fixed the problem.

i am seriously considering buying some b&w 804's or some thiel cs2.4's. i am going tomorrow to demo the thiel's ive never heard them and a place about 20 minutes away has them in the showroom.