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View Full Version : Wanna go active but have a few questions first



jadon087
05-26-2007, 03:40 PM
Okay guys i want to go with an active setup for my frontstage setup because of the great reviews and money that can be saved instead of running 2 passive sets. I wanna do the full frontstage which includes all 4 doors of a ford explorer either 6.5 or 7 inch. I will deaden them with rammat too.

my amp would be Memphis MCA5004 specs:
# Full MOSFET Design
# Built-In Fully Variable High/Low Pass Crossovers
# User Selectable 12dB or 18dB Per Octave Crossover Slope
# RCA Bypass Output
# Platinum Finish Wire Connections
# Accepts 4 Gauge Power and Ground Wire
# 4-Channel MClass Series Amplifier
# Aluminum Chassis with Custon Black Pearl Finish
# Gold Plated RCA Connectors
# Full MOSFET Design
# Fully Variable Crossover: HP/LP (40 Hz - 6 kHz)
# 4-Way Protection Circuitry
# Platinum Finish Wire Connections
# Accepts 4 Gauge Power and Ground Wire
# Optional Wired Remote Gain Control
# Adjustable Input Sensitivity: 250mV - 5V
# Dimensions: 25.81" L x 7.6" W x 2.4" H
# Number of Channels 4
# RMS Power (4 ohms) 125 watts x 4 chan.
# RMS Power (2 ohms) 250 watts x 4 chan.
# Total RMS Power @ 2 ohms: 1000 Watts
# Min. Impedance Unbridged 2 ohms
# Min. Impedance Bridged 4 ohms
# THD @ Rated RMS Power 0.03%
# Built-in Crossover HP (40 Hz - 6 kHz), LP (40 Hz - 6 kHz)
# Signal-to-Noise Ratio 92 dB
# Fuse Rating 30A x 3

First question is could you recommend mids and tweets wanna keep it under 500 or so for all 4 doors. i did search and saw the Peerless exclusive 7 inch and seas neo alum tweets 1 inch were the most highly recommended so thats probably what i will go for, unless there are any other suggestion.

Another question i have is can i go active off a carputer in dash or would i need to buy active crossovers, or could i use the x overs from the amp? Also if i need to buy an x-over r there any recommendations?

Thanks in advance and hopefully i wont get flamed because i have said something wrong or not been specific enough.

msimon
05-26-2007, 03:56 PM
Just FYI, "frontstage" is usually considered only the speakers actually in front of you, so doing all four doors is a little beyond "frontstage". That being said, to do all four doors and a sub you are going to need 9 channels of amplification, one for every driver that you use. So that four channel amplifier that you have listed isn't going to cut it. You could use a carputer but only if it has some sort of active x-over software and at least 3 preouts. Otherwise you will need an external 3-way active x-over of some kind. Regardless of whether you use the carputer or an external x-over you are going to need to use y-adapters to get the 9 channels that you require for your setup, out of the 5 or 6 channels that your x-over will give you. Overall this setup is a very complex one and not necessarily the best way to start off with your first active setup. The main thing that you need to do is research and make sure that you fully understand everything that you will need for your setup. Good luck!

jadon087
05-26-2007, 04:07 PM
k thanks man i understand now and yeah sorry about the frontstage thing i see wat you mean so i would be better off doing just the front two doors and using that amp to power them and putting a good set of mids in the back well you just answered everything for me. thanks.

crow
05-26-2007, 05:16 PM
Just a thought, but the specs on the 5004 show adjustable high pass and low pass crossovers up to 6khz. Since many newer head units have simple crossovers built in you could combine one with the amp for a fully active setup. Essentially, you high pass the tweeter and low pass the midrange using the amplifiers crossovers, then high pass the midrange and low pass the subwoofer using the head unit. It will not be as easy to set up and tune as a dedicated crossover or processor but it is workable if you are on a tight budget.

jadon087
05-26-2007, 05:19 PM
Just a thought, but the specs on the 5004 show adjustable high pass and low pass crossovers up to 6khz. Since many newer head units have simple crossovers built in you could combine one with the amp for a fully active setup. Essentially, you high pass the tweeter and low pass the midrange using the amplifiers crossovers, then high pass the midrange and low pass the subwoofer using the head unit. It will not be as easy to set up and tune as a dedicated crossover or processor but it is workable if you are on a tight budget.

hum yeah ill probably go ahead and get 2 4 channel amps to make it easier on my self one for the tweets another for the mids, and then my sub amp and use the hu to crossover each would this work?

MiniVanMan
05-26-2007, 05:29 PM
There's a site dedicated to active tuning if you're interested. It's www.diymobileaudio.com Lot's of good information there.

Now to your questions. Like a previous poster mentioned you can use the Memphis amp for most of your crossover needs.

You have several options here.

First. If you have a head unit that has a variable high pass crossover in the 80 hz range, then do what the above poster said. It will also give you many more options on drivers you can select.

Next option is, if you don't have said head unit, then you can run a mid high passed only, and let it roll off naturally, where it will blend with the tweeter. There aren't many mids that can do this without some kind of breakup node to worry about, but the first one that comes to mind is the Seas CA18RNX. Very stout driver, with great midbass, low distortion, etc. A very common tweeter that gets matched with this driver is the LPG.

If you're new to active tuning, the above setup is a GREAT start. Both drivers are very nice, and the CA18RNX is very, very easy to work with.

MiniVanMan
05-26-2007, 05:49 PM
Oh, and just worry about your front doors. If properly set up, all you need is just the fronts.

Do you have a head unit yet?

jadon087
05-26-2007, 05:57 PM
Okay so ill just go with frontstage, but you have any ideas what i should do for rear fill, because i would like some rear fill also maybe off the hu or a 2 channel amp i guess. Also i am in the process of building a carputer i would most likely be using a low end pioneer,eclipse, or alpine for the rcas for the carputer.

Let me know how this looks?

mids:
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=45_228_256&products_id=1604

tweets:
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=628

amp:
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=5531

jadon087
05-26-2007, 06:13 PM
minivan you still here

MiniVanMan
05-26-2007, 06:23 PM
Go over to diymobileaudio. There are a couple of guys over there that use carputers for their active setups. There are soundcards and software that make it possible.

As for your speaker selection, it looks good.

If you do rear fill, head unit power is usually preferred, but you can use a small amp if you like as well. Nothing over 35 watts RMS though. You can use a full range driver as well.

Something like this would work well for rear fill.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=264-828

They have decent midbass capability, and a smooth response. They should be relatively transparent in a rear fill capacity.

You definitely want to stay away from a bright high end that will detract, and pull your stage to the rear of the vehicle.

jadon087
05-26-2007, 06:25 PM
Go over to diymobileaudio. There are a couple of guys over there that use carputers for their active setups. There are soundcards and software that make it possible.

As for your speaker selection, it looks good.

If you do rear fill, head unit power is usually preferred, but you can use a small amp if you like as well. Nothing over 35 watts RMS though. You can use a full range driver as well.

Something like this would work well for rear fill.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=264-828

They have decent midbass capability, and a smooth response. They should be relatively transparent in a rear fill capacity.

You definitely want to stay away from a bright high end that will detract, and pull your stage to the rear of the vehicle.

lol i just pmed you, okay thanks man i appreciate the help you just saved me money and time.

jadon087
05-26-2007, 07:31 PM
okay i narrowed it down for my active setup guys tell me how this sounds

Hu: Carputer with Good Sound card/w Alpine 9857 or 9885

Frontstage:
Peerless Exclusive 7 inch mids crossed at (80-150 hz)
Seas 27AFNC/G (H1397) 1" aluminum dome tweeter
Memphis MCA5004 125 x 4 at 4 ohm

Rear Fill:
Seas ca18rnx mids (rolling naturally)
Memphis MCA150: 74 x 2 at 4 ohm

substage,(not relevant but oh well):
2 15 or 18 inch Rd audio Aplphas
Memphis 4kw



Any suggestions?

jadon087
05-26-2007, 09:41 PM
no comments

helotaxi
05-26-2007, 10:48 PM
Awful lot of sub to try to match up with any front stage.

jadon087
05-27-2007, 12:03 AM
Awful lot of sub to try to match up with any front stage.

yeah i'm hoping this will keep up

MiniVanMan
05-27-2007, 12:18 AM
Sorry, been working on finishing my deck outside.

You're proposed setup isn't bad, but you've got some money going where it doesn't need to.

First is the rear fill. If you want to do a 7" mid for rear fill, the CA18RNX is a nice speaker. A nicer speaker for that job would be the Vifa MG18. Doesn't have the midbass thump of the CA18, but you're not looking for that in rear fill anyway. What it does have is a spectacular top end. It's extends very high for a 7" mid

Now, I would like to ask, why are you so set on using rear speakers?

jadon087
05-27-2007, 12:23 AM
Sorry, been working on finishing my deck outside.

You're proposed setup isn't bad, but you've got some money going where it doesn't need to.

First is the rear fill. If you want to do a 7" mid for rear fill, the CA18RNX is a nice speaker. A nicer speaker for that job would be the Vifa MG18. Doesn't have the midbass thump of the CA18, but you're not looking for that in rear fill anyway. What it does have is a spectacular top end. It's extends very high for a 7" mid

Now, I would like to ask, why are you so set on using rear speakers?

ill have to check that vifa out will it blend well with my frontstage you think?

As for the rear fill i just dont wanna be lacking in mids/highs with the amount of bass that is going to be coming from my substage. I just feel like i might be missing something if i dont. Is it really not neccessary?

jadon087
05-27-2007, 12:25 AM
which model MG18 r u refering to i see three on the site

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=45_228_256&sort=2a&filter_id=153

jadon087
05-27-2007, 12:46 AM
do you think instead of more rear fill i should get another set of tweets for the high in the rear since its right near the bass?

I actually kinda wanna go over kill and just go all out for a front stage, rearstage, and substage... would anything be wrong with that besides the fact that its going to cost?

MiniVanMan
05-27-2007, 01:17 AM
You're pretty stuck on this rear stage thing. I'm getting the feeling that you've never heard a properly designed, installed, and tuned front stage. You'd be surprised what it can sound like. You want to have as little as possible coming from behind you to achieve proper staging. Anything other than subsonic frequencies (below 80 hz) coming from behind you will pull your front stage backwards, and that's not a desirable effect.

There are a ton of problems with trying to get a front stage as loud as a sub stage that's running the kind of power you're talking about.

One is even if you get your mids loud enough to match up, you'll have so many resonance problems it'll drive you insane. Door panels LOVE to rattle.

That being said though, you can still get great midbass. A well integrated midbass will pull your substage forward so that it sounds more coming from in front of you as opposed to from behind you. That's what's meant by staging.

You're target frequency for a midbass should be 70-80 hz (with good power handling), or 60-70 hz (with moderate power handling) Under 70-80 hz, frequency generally becomes non-localized. In other words, it's hard to tell where it's coming from.

That all being said, and based on what you want from a midbass, I'd stay away from the Exclusives. They are amazing drivers, but they're not the strongest midbass performers. Once again, the CA18RNX is a stronger midbass performer, if not as detailed in the midrange. The L18RNX is a beautiful driver with amazing midbass capability, but it's top end leaves a little to be desired with a nasty breakup mode, and it's generally difficult nature. The P18RNX is the best of both worlds. (I'm stating basically drivers in the same price range)

Now if you can fit an 8" driver, and are willing to do a 3-way setup (midbass in doors, midrange in kicks, and tweeter depending on what sounds best), then the Peerless SLS 8" driver is a beast.

With a 3-way, you definitely don't need a rear stage. The SLS 8" can drop very low, and handle a good amount of power, though it doesn't need that much power to really get moving.

If you really want to do this right, and have the money to spend.

Peerless SLS 8" midbasses in doors with proper deadening and sealing. A suitable midrange driver in kicks. There are a ton to choose from. The Vifa MG14, the Vifa/Peerless TG9, a whole slew of Tang Band drivers, the Dayton RS125, etc, etc, etc. Then an appropriate tweeter, depending on the midrange you choose.

For amps, since you like Memphis, the MC300 for the midbasses, and a MC300.4 to run the midranges, and tweeters.

If it were me, SLS 8", Vifa MG14 (one of my all time favorite drivers), and the Alpine variant Vifa XT19 (because it's an awesome tweeter that only costs $14.00).

If you want a reference that what I'm talking about isn't something just out of my ***, hit up Hardhitta47 on this forum. I sold him a sub a while back and he listened to my setup. Front stages are what I do. Even though my sub stage is pretty beefy as well.

jadon087
05-27-2007, 01:36 AM
You're pretty stuck on this rear stage thing. I'm getting the feeling that you've never heard a properly designed, installed, and tuned front stage. You'd be surprised what it can sound like. You want to have as little as possible coming from behind you to achieve proper staging. Anything other than subsonic frequencies (below 80 hz) coming from behind you will pull your front stage backwards, and that's not a desirable effect.

There are a ton of problems with trying to get a front stage as loud as a sub stage that's running the kind of power you're talking about.

One is even if you get your mids loud enough to match up, you'll have so many resonance problems it'll drive you insane. Door panels LOVE to rattle.

That being said though, you can still get great midbass. A well integrated midbass will pull your substage forward so that it sounds more coming from in front of you as opposed to from behind you. That's what's meant by staging.

You're target frequency for a midbass should be 70-80 hz (with good power handling), or 60-70 hz (with moderate power handling) Under 70-80 hz, frequency generally becomes non-localized. In other words, it's hard to tell where it's coming from.

That all being said, and based on what you want from a midbass, I'd stay away from the Exclusives. They are amazing drivers, but they're not the strongest midbass performers. Once again, the CA18RNX is a stronger midbass performer, if not as detailed in the midrange. The L18RNX is a beautiful driver with amazing midbass capability, but it's top end leaves a little to be desired with a nasty breakup mode, and it's generally difficult nature. The P18RNX is the best of both worlds. (I'm stating basically drivers in the same price range)

Now if you can fit an 8" driver, and are willing to do a 3-way setup (midbass in doors, midrange in kicks, and tweeter depending on what sounds best), then the Peerless SLS 8" driver is a beast.

With a 3-way, you definitely don't need a rear stage. The SLS 8" can drop very low, and handle a good amount of power, though it doesn't need that much power to really get moving.

If you really want to do this right, and have the money to spend.

Peerless SLS 8" midbasses in doors with proper deadening and sealing. A suitable midrange driver in kicks. There are a ton to choose from. The Vifa MG14, the Vifa/Peerless TG9, a whole slew of Tang Band drivers, the Dayton RS125, etc, etc, etc. Then an appropriate tweeter, depending on the midrange you choose.

For amps, since you like Memphis, the MC300 for the midbasses, and a MC300.4 to run the midranges, and tweeters.

If it were me, SLS 8", Vifa MG14 (one of my all time favorite drivers), and the Alpine variant Vifa XT19 (because it's an awesome tweeter that only costs $14.00).

If you want a reference that what I'm talking about isn't something just out of my ***, hit up Hardhitta47 on this forum. I sold him a sub a while back and he listened to my setup. Front stages are what I do. Even though my sub stage is pretty beefy as well.

i def trust you word man i see you frontstage and i wanna be like you. I'm just a overperfectionist sometime and get carried away but i'm gonna take your word for it, and save me some monies!!!!!!

Im gonna take the advice of someone who is knowledgeable over my doubts and run with this setup you just reccomended in bold, would this be the best frontstage i could get for under 500 dollars?

jadon087
05-27-2007, 01:54 AM
only thing is i dont wanna have to do kick panels only reason why i want a 2-way setup so ill just be content with what i have and take off the rear fill.

MiniVanMan
05-27-2007, 03:08 AM
Yeah, just because your budget is $500.00 doesn't mean you need to spend that much. The Exclusive/Seas Neo combo is a good one. The Exclusive can also mate up well with the LPG25, which is a more shimmery tweeter than the Seas Neo. The Vifa XT25 is also a great tweeter, but needs to be mounted on-axis. When placed on-axis it's hard to beat, especially for the money.

Flipx99
05-27-2007, 11:07 AM
You can fit 7" in your exploder with a little grinding work. You have a pretty good combo set up already. I can make you some rings for mounting to your doors. Just give me a call.

jadon087
05-27-2007, 12:05 PM
Yeah, just because your budget is $500.00 doesn't mean you need to spend that much. The Exclusive/Seas Neo combo is a good one. The Exclusive can also mate up well with the LPG25, which is a more shimmery tweeter than the Seas Neo. The Vifa XT25 is also a great tweeter, but needs to be mounted on-axis. When placed on-axis it's hard to beat, especially for the money.

Good deal man ill just run with the Exclusive/ Seas neo combo and forget the rear fill, and if i do add anything itll probably be some highs. Thanks man


You can fit 7" in your exploder with a little grinding work. You have a pretty good combo set up already. I can make you some rings for mounting to your doors. Just give me a call.

I def will be hittin you up about those rings man def appreciate it.

DejaWiz
05-27-2007, 02:47 PM
MiniVan and everyone else that really helped Jadon out, you rock. Once again you set an example for all of us here on how we should conduct ourselves when helping others out.

Jadon, I'm willing to bet that between the Exclusives and the Neos, you are going to have one killer front stage for the money invested.

jadon087
05-27-2007, 02:52 PM
MiniVan and everyone else that really helped Jadon out, you rock. Once again you set an example for all of us here on how we should conduct ourselves when helping others out.

Jadon, I'm willing to bet that between the Exclusives and the Neos, you are going to have one killer front stage for the money invested.

Yeah man i really appreciate all the help these guys gave me, especially minivanman, i came outta this thread with greatly increased understanding of an active setup and even better a plan for my setup. Again much thanks and ill let you guys know how it goes.

Flipx99
05-28-2007, 03:40 AM
One day, you will be ready to taste the rainbow....


By the time yours is ready to go, mine will be in the post-install tweaking stage.

jadon087
05-28-2007, 03:44 AM
One day, you will be ready to taste the rainbow....


By the time yours is ready to go, mine will be in the post-install tweaking stage.

lol i cant wait to see all the nice colors rainbow has for me...

Flipx99
05-28-2007, 03:46 AM
me either to tell you the truth.

Trust minivanman, he knows his ****. It is not original, but it has been proven time and time again on DIYMA.

alphakenny1
05-28-2007, 05:46 AM
shoot if i had 5 bills this one is easy. seas excel W18nx and hiquphon ow1/ow2. but if thats if you want to run a 7" mid there. actually a tiny bit above $500 but if tuned correctly, its hard to beat. i love the hiquphon tweets.

TheFiverMan
05-28-2007, 07:05 AM
7"...

Flipx99
05-28-2007, 06:22 PM
shoot if i had 5 bills this one is easy. seas excel W18nx and hiquphon ow1/ow2. but if thats if you want to run a 7" mid there. actually a tiny bit above $500 but if tuned correctly, its hard to beat. i love the hiquphon tweets.

Might be a little trouble to fab a ow1 in the exploder...although I could put it next to the midbass w/o much issue.